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Do you think in time I will forget about that evening and feel normal again? Is it a good or bad idea to keep talking about that evening?

Nope, you will never forget that evening. You may forgive her but you will always remember and question that evening.

If you need to keep talking about it then that is good. You need to get every answer you feel you need to move on whether that is with her or without her.

If she thinks she was sexually assaulted then she needs to press charges, my guess is she won't because she knows she is equally responsible and gave consent. The 'blackout' story is a pretty common theme in cheating stories and as many turn out to be bullsh*t as don't. She also seriously needs to work on her boundaries with friends of the opposite sex if she is going to have them.

not wrong to give another chance

though wrong to not take steps to prevent a repeat

such as no more overnight trips for her

no more alcohol when you are not present

and no more excessive drinking even when together

[This message edited by oldtruck at 12:13 AM, Friday, November 11th]

Do you think I made a mistake giving this woman another chance? Do you think in time I will forget about that evening and feel normal again?

She may well and truly deserve another chance, but not necessarily with you.

You may find that what happened, that her extraordinarily poor decision making and problem drinking, put you in a place that is just too much to deal with. You will be stuck in an endless loop of picturing them together. You didn’t ask for it, you didn’t deserve it, and now you have this steaming pile of horse manure in the center of your life with her. Always there. A L W A Y S. Some actions have enduring consequences.

I applaud your GF on her steps since then. It sounds like she is doing all the right things. Things she should do whether you stay together or not. But don’t let her current actions place an obligation on you to stay together. She made enough incredibly bad decisions to say goodbye forever. Only stay because you want to.

Do you think I made a mistake giving this woman another chance?

JMHO, no I don't think you've made a mistake.

Do you think in time I will forget about that evening and feel normal again?

You will never forget. But overtime you'll think of it less and less and won't be triggered as much and it won't hurt as much. But in your desire to feel normal again, don't try to rush the process or rug sweep what happened. I get it, you just want the pain to end, the mind movies to stop and for this not to be the first thing you think of when you wake up and the last thing you think about before you fall asleep. But if you rush or rug sweep, it may lead to resentment and what happened may be repeated if you don't address it.

Is it a good or bad idea to keep talking about that evening?

IMO you should discuss it as much as you need to. It's a good sign that she's discussing it with you even though it makes her feel bad, seems like she's doing so because you need to, so she's doing it for you which is a good sign of remorse. And it's good that she immediately confessed to you what happened.

This situation is in a gray area for me. She may have been sexually assaulted. But we don't know that other guy's motive or if he knew she couldn't technically consent. I've been black out drunk several times and didn't cheat, but, I was told I did and said things that shocked me and I wouldn't normally. And people didn't realize I was blacked out. Being blacked out yet capable of not following through with having sex is a coin in her column IMO. I do believe they could've gotten to a point where he had a condom on but she stopped it because I've been there before.

This may be one of those extremely rare cases OP where I feel as bad for the alleged AP, maybe more, because it has to be traumatizing for her if she was sexually assaulted and on top of that she's dealing with the guilt and fear of you dumping her. But that doesn't mean I don't have empathy for you OP.

It's great that your gf has abstained from alcohol, however she should maybe meet with a professional to have an assessment done to determine whether she has an alcohol dependency problem. If she does, cold turkey isn't sufficient, she'll need more support i.e. therapy. And it's not a bad idea for you two to engage in couple's counseling to see if this is something you can work through. Hoping for the best for both of you.

Well, as you well know, your best choices are either reconcile or divorce.

Your major concern now is the mind torture that are currently upsetting.

A quick clean cut will lessen the amount of time that you will need to endure this.

However, what is your own feelings about her, and the value that you place on her and your relationship. Meaning...is she still someone that you can see yourself still growing old with happily.

This needs to be the crux of your decision.

This may take time. However, again, is there still that love in you for her.

If there still is, you have a good chance to rebuild, and to look at avenues to do this.

Your gf looks to be willing to do what is needed to achieve this.

God bless.

Original post deleted. I don’t think Dasher is returning.

Devils advocate speaking. It sounds like you have the correct story. However, if I had a nickel for every betrayed who swore up snd down they had the full story, that there was no way the wayward and AP could have colluded….

My recommendation. Have her write down the entire timeline and then have her read it to you. At the end, tell you that you think it’s legit, that you trust her, but that you don’t want any uncertainty hanging over your head, only to discover years later that you are traumatized and are uncertain if you have the complete truth.

That being said, tell her that you want her to take a poly to verify the timeline. Gauge her reaction. If she’s telling the truth she should jump at the chance to take a poly. Any other reaction places her story in doubt IMO.

Just to be clear, I never said she "consented" to sex, I said that this was not necessarily sexual assault (two very different things)

I'm not sure they can. A cannot be A and non A at the same time. Consent is not a spectrum thing. There is no almost consent. There is a great video we show kids on consent. It uses wanting tea with sexual consent. You might want to Google it.

I think your difficulty trying to resolve the consent issue stems from your reluctance in reconciling your idea of your WW with the woman I front of you.

[This message edited by Justsomeguy at 11:34 PM, Friday, November 11th]

I'm not sure they can. A cannot be A and non A at the same time. Consent is not a spectrum thing. There is no almost consent.

I never said it was a spectrum, I said that based on what OP posted IMHO there's not enough evidence that sexual assault did occur in this case, we simply don't know one way or another.

I'm with RealityBlows here. Consent isn't the issue - it's that your GF gets herself blackout drunk.

I don't mean to blame the Victim here. Like many others, I never took advantage of a drunk girl, and I liked to drink before I got hooked on my non-drinking W2b. So the guy was either very drunk himself or a scumbag or both.

But if your GF doesn't stop her behavior, you'll have to deal with this again and again, and that's unhealthy for both of you.

Aside from everything else...she gets "blackout drunk". That's not acceptable. If she cant figure out when to stop drinking, well...duhhhh. Think hard about this. You dont want to be kicking yourself in the ass later.

Something isn’t right with this story.

The original post has been deleted. I doubt the OP will be responding.

Dasher

I don’t know if you plan on sharing more on this site or not. You thread was reinstalled by the mods because the guidelines clearly state deleting whole posts isn’t allowed. This site helps a lot of people – probably even more than those that share. We have people dealing with comparable issues that you share, and they can find help in reading your story and what is suggested. Don’t worry – your anonymity is quite safe. The only thing unique about your story is that it’s YOU – we have seen and read comparable stories in the past.

I fear that sometimes posters don’t like what they read. I also fear that new betrayed spouses focus on what they perceive as the most negative comments, rather than maybe focus on some general tone or content. I suggest you do this: those that have been most discouraging about your GF and your future together: Give yourself maybe 10 minutes to read any of their past posts. If they have consistently told in all situations and all conditions that the original poster has a doomed relationship or that the original poster MUST reconcile… if they are consistent in being ALWAYS R or ALWAYS D… then take their advice at that value. It’s boilerplate advice.

OK – so there is some debate about her ability to consent.
It is an issue. I’m former law-enforcement and have dealt with rape and sexual abuse. It’s years ago and a different time, a different generation. I entered an environment with an older generation that insisted a woman that didn’t want to be raped couldn’t be raped unless beaten senseless. That if a woman consented to fondling and kissing then sex was expected. My generation (and probably the one before me) refused those thoughts and now – several generations of law enforcement later – there is the general consensus that no means no. That consent is required and that both parties in any sexual interaction need to imply or give clear consent.
So yes – maybe there is a level of moral sexual assault. I say moral because I am 99% certain there is no way a legal line has been crossed. Especially as seeing how the man quit half-way.

But… it’s not the issue per se.
Look – if a woman decides to walk through a dark park that is KNOWN by everyone as a place to avoid and she is raped… it’s still rape. If caught the rapist wont get a reduced sentence because everyone knows women get raped in that park. She would be no less a victim… BUT we definitely could question her decision to enter that park.

It’s the same with your GF.
If she has a pattern of drinking to a point where she no longer behaves reasonably… she has a problem.
How she deals with that problem IMHO should be your definition on if this is a relationship you should remain in.

We have this vision in our minds of alcoholics. We think of our uncle Bob who always passed out in family gatherings or that guy living on the street across from our job or whatever. Well… think again…

My wife’s best friend is a recovering alcoholic. Both my wife and I were so surprised because we hadn’t realized she had this problem. Turns out she only drank 5-6 times a year and only for the evening. Not as if she was drunk for days. But when she did drink then about half the times she would drink to oblivion. Too often that ended with her waking up in the wrong bed with the wrong man. Much to her husband’s displeasure. She tried to "self-treat" by drinking on fewer occasions or by only getting one bottle of Chablis… but would find more booze and still end up in oblivion. Eventually she realized she had a problem and entered AA.
She shared that she met with a woman’s only group in AA and that many of them shared the same situation: Occasional drinkers but when they did drink it was to oblivion with the expected negative social effects (DUI’s, relationship issues, infidelities, risky sexual acts…)

There are several definitions of alcoholism. One of them being alcoholism is when one can no longer control their use of alcohol despite the negative consequences. Your GF has negative consequences in the black-outs. This time it ended in infidelity – albeit "limited" to make-out. Possibly her saving grace was that the OM was "moral" enough to respect her refusal. Now imagine this taking place with a random man in a dark booth in a seedy club…
What about next black-out? Doesn’t have to be with another man. Can also be getting into a car and crashing into a wall. Or driving head-front into a family car. Or spending the money you two were saving for a home. Or losing her job for being abusive and aggressive at the company party. Or it can be waking up in the wrong bed…

What it will be is unknown. What IS known is that if she drinks to the state of black-out there will be more events. More occasions. More issues.

So my suggestion?
Well… I have a theory that an active alcoholic/addict will always prioritize their addiction over their relationships. We see this for example in parents picking up their kids from daycare despite being incapable of driving. We see this in spouses coming late home after a night out KNOWING and accepting there will be a blow-out because that blow-out is less pain than the drunk joy.

My suggestion is this:
For any chance of this being a salvageable situation her drinking needs to change.
My suggestion would be that you both agree to a period of absolute alcohol abstinence – like maybe the next 12 months. It doesn’t have to include you, but I would suggest you take part too. If nothing else it can help her.
If she finds that a hard thought… well… that would support an alcoholic trait. That would make me encourage her to talk to someone in AA and maybe even attend meetings. Look around for a female-only group IMHO.

Her willingness to acknowledge that her drinking is an issue and her willingness to deal with that would be the big litmus-test for if this is a relationship worth saving IMHO.

If she’s willing to do this – stay sober – I think you two can work through what happened. If she – at some point during the agreed on period – starts drinking or sneaks off to have a sip or two, that would be an indicator on her priorities.

The OM? While I recognize his moral stance on not carrying on when she told him to quit I wonder if he wasn’t aware she was in a relationship?

Excellent post from Bigger.

My suggestion would be that you both agree to a period of absolute alcohol abstinence – like maybe the next 12 months.

A word of caution on the above. In my experience-and with my ExGF, is that she could easily go one, even two years without a drink-confirmed by random interval court ordered testing. Then, as soon as the ban is lifted, they either go straight into problem drinking or, ease back into it slowly, subtly or, do very well self-moderating until things (a special occasion, peer pressure, stressors) come into alignment, and then they pass their tipping point, and down the slippery slope they go towards oblivion. And oblivion can easily be waking up in another person’s bed.

You can be on your honeymoon, madly in-love, and think "What the hell, let’s celebrate!" and wind up flying home on separate flights.

Alcoholics come in so many varieties. They can be quite lovely and loveable, usually very seductive, talented, charismatic, intelligent, sophisticated and deeply feeling. Attributes that also often contribute their disability and your codependency.

If you’re going to be in a relationship with an alcoholic you have to know what you’re taking on. You have to understand the disease.

Dasher has asked that his profile be disabled, so he won't be returning. Please wish him well.