SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So u are saying in a nice way….if I want to be a dumb ass and make believe that all is great then I can live in my fantasy world.

You are absolutely not a dumbass. At all. You're a BS and you're traumatized. HUGE difference between those.

But the best predictor of future outcomes is looking at past behavior. He hasn't changed because he clearly doesn't WANT to change. And as much as I am sure you wish you could, you can't make him want to do so.

So at this point you have a few paths. One? Just put up with it and stop bringing it up since that does not seem to be productive right now. Two? Keep bringing it up even though it's not productive right now. Three? Separate to give yourself a clear spot to make some decisions. Four? File for D.

Mind you I am not faulting you for bringing anything up - of course you want to know and you want him to get it. But you can't control HIM - you can only control YOU. So what do YOU want (separate from him or the marriage)? And once you decide that, is getting it something you have the power to do?

Blue - I know u weren’t criticizing me. I was just saying it in terms that I feel. Most normal people would have jumped ship by now.
If I didn’t have kids and I could drive (health reasons I can’t), then I’d probably separate at the least.
BUT I have kids and I don’t live in a town so it’s at least 15 mins to civilization.
The thought of starting…all….over 🤦‍♀️. I know everyone keeps saying I just need to think about myself and what I want, but I can’t. I have kids and I can’t put myself before them.
I’m just venting and thinking. I’ll figure it out. Thanks for all the advice 💛

I know everyone keeps saying I just need to think about myself and what I want, but I can’t. I have kids and I can’t put myself before them.

I'm sure that you don't put yourself in front of your kids, but you will really need to ponder if staying in this dynamic is better for them versus getting yourself out of infidelity. We will normally do almost anything for our kids, but we can't fake a happy relationship with a toxic partner....no matter how much you think that we can shield them. Kids pick up far more than we realize, so we may not be doing them any favors by staying.

Don't let that mindset keep you where you don't want to be.

Gently..you're staying in this abusive marriage..with a man who has not "only " abused you throughout the entire marriage..but he's also abused those kids their entire lives (he became a little nicer the last 2 years..except you see now that thats not really true..he just started to manipulate differently).

How does keeping the kids in the home,with their abuser, benefit them?

[This message edited by HellFire at 2:10 AM, Friday, January 20th]

In all honesty….In the past two years he’s been a lot better as far as the abuse. Whereas, it use to be 100% at least a few days out of the week. Maybe more or less. Now…before Dday, it was only like 30% maybe once every couple of weeks, if that. I had started to have hope (bc I was going to divorce him when my youngest got 16) and started to feel like I could do this easily. Then I found out about the cheating.
As I mentioned before, I think his anger and abusiveness calmed down greatly bc his testosterone dropped low. And I think that’s why he wasn’t still cheating when I found out. His sex drive is like a 2 and he was so bad, in the past, that he’d want it 7 days a week, if not more.

Years… no… DECADES ago I did some courses on domestic abuse and treatments for abusers as a law enforcement officer. The research might not be relevant anymore, but I think the basics of what I was told will still hold true.

I mention abuse because IMHO using anger the way he does is a form of abuse. It’s his way of controlling things. If you were to take his behavior and put something comparable on a child – it’s like a child throwing a tantrum and refusing to tidy his room or eat vegetables. The child knows that eventually you will do the tidying or the veggies will be replaced with a peanut-jelly sandwich. The child knows from experience that his tantrum works.
Same with your husband. He knows that trickle-truth works, that tantrums work, that HE can control the pace, the direction and the recovery.

The courses? Well… at the time the controversial aspect of the course-material was that abusers (in this course only men) COULD learn new behavior. You could take a man who had been using abuse – emotional or physical – to control his interactions with others and he could learn new, more productive and acceptable ways to interact.
But…
It was hard, and it required intense therapy. At the time group-therapy was recommended, a lot like AA where abusers would meet under guidance and talk about their behaviors.

Big BUT…
The biggest problem however was that usually these men had been in an established relationship where interactions had already been created and set. For THAT relationship it might be the norm for the wife to get her husband that first cup of coffee in the morning because she KNEW that if she didn’t he would be silent and grumpy all day. Not for lack of caffeine, but for the lack of controllability the wife had shown by not bringing the coffee.
The BIG problem was that the couple had to change their interactions and consciously work at creating new behaviors and new reasons for the new behaviors. So maybe you still get him the coffee, but now it’s a sign of respect and caring rather than fear. In return he thanks you for the coffee, showing a sign of appreciation and respect. Maybe he even makes the coffee on Saturdays.

I remember the lecturer told us LEO’s that we should stick to what was then standard advice: Suggest the repeatedly abused woman seek guidance from the local abuse center and get out of the abusive relationship. The lecturer – someone who had great belief in the rehabilitation of offenders – stated that the most likely path to success for the offender was in a new non-abusive relationship rather than fix the old one.

So what would I suggest?
I think you really need to put the foot down.
In the couples counseling address his anger and his trickle-truth for what they are: abuse. Get the counselor to focus on ABUSE and how to deal with it. It will require IC for him, but it will also definitely require that YOU recognize the abuse and have methods to deal with it.

His abuse is "getting better" because you've grown accustomed to it and you're probably fighting back a lot less. You also don't know whether or not he's still cheating (or the manner in which he's cheating).

Bigger's analogy about a child using tantrums to get what they want is great, but I can think of another that works just as well. You are a person who lives in barn and has gotten used to scent of manure. Maybe you've been in the barn so long that you've forgotten what fresh air smells like, or, if you grew up in a barn, you've never breathed fresh air and don't know what you're missing. Maybe, after all these years putting up with the smell of shit, you now can't imagine living without the stench because it's so comfortable and familiar.

But for a moment, lets take you at your word... the abuse is subsiding and he's not cheating anymore. Your marriage is tolerable. Why are you here? What advice are you looking for? Affirmation from other people that his behavior is healthy and normal? Tactics to control him?

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 2:59 PM, Friday, January 20th]

Now…before Dday, it was only like 30% maybe once every couple of weeks,

Emotional abuse..verbal abuse..is just as bad as physical abuse. In some ways,it's worse. So let's flip this for a minute..

"He only hits me..hits the kids..once every few weeks now."

Again...the kids are in a toxic environment. How does this benefit them?

Here's another analogy: A guy beats his wife 7 days a week. Wife reached a point where she couldn't take that abuse no more. So she protested. He was rattled. He feared she would leave him and he could loose control over someone. So he promised her he would change and become a better person. Now, he beats her only 3 days a week. And she is content with this 'improvement'.

Yes - my WH has more of the powder-keg type anger with a long fuse - it burns and burns and burns slowly (because he is SO conflict-avoidant) and then blows up in a rage when he can't hold it in any longer - yells, screams, breaks things, and while he's never laid a hand on me I used to worry that he might just lose control completely and who knows.... He admits that he has felt filled with anger and rage since as long as he can remember - and that sometimes it is blinding to him - to the point where he just wants to lash out and hurt things (verbally unless it's something like a wall - which he has punched before) - and no one even needs to be present for the anger to overtake him - in fact most of the broken things occurred when no one was home but him.

He has been dealing with this in therapy for about 3 years now, and in all honesty it is one of the biggest changes in him and it is all linked to not avoiding conflict. By addressing the conflict when it first starts, it lets off the steam building up, so it doesn't come to a head anymore. He says that he does not feel nearly as angry as he used to AND that he feels less anxious too - all just by telling people how you feel - and expressing your actual needs (something his family does NOT do - ever).

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 11:13 PM, Friday, January 20th]

he doesnt have an anger problem, he has a control problem

I just read this and had to add:

Now…before Dday, it was only like 30% maybe once every couple of weeks, if that.

READ THAT AGAIN!!!!! You are trying to say that abusive behavior once every few weeks is okay for you and your kids to be around???? I'm sorry but NO - that's an INSANE amount. You are not doing them any favors by sticking it out except teaching them that abuse, when it comes monthly is okay. It's not. it's also not normal. Please please please teach your children how to go forward in this world with strength and self-confidence.

I'm trying to be as frank as I can because you need to hear it. Staying FOR the kids is only workable when staying is actually a healthy environment. What you are describing is NOT healthy. I would have never in a million years endeavored to stay with my WH if I had kids because the environment was too toxic - and it was a walk in the park compared to what you describe.

I rarely tell anyone what I think they should do strongly on this site - but if you are staying for the kids - I think you need to leave FOR the kids. I'm sorry you are here and I hope you really try to remove yourself from the situation and look at it is as objectively as you can. I think you will see you are clouded with all kinds of emotions and you have been suffering long term abuse. I sincerely hope you find the strength to do what you need not just for your kids.

As my signature line reads: You are the only person you are guaranteed to spend the rest of your life with - so treat yourself with the utmost kindness and respect. You deserve it.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 10:37 PM, Monday, January 23rd]

I don’t remember where I heard this, or saw this, but it makes a huge difference in how you look at a person who is behaving this way. Does he lose his temper and treat others the way he treats you? If so, then he’s got anger issues all day long. If it’s only you then it’s because he gets away with it. He CAN control his anger because he does it outside the house. Either way he’s not good for you and this is certainly not good for your children.

Thisissolonely - I don’t mind u speaking ur mind. That’s what I want. And when I said that he only does it about 30% now….I wasn’t saying it was ok, I was saying that it’s gotten a lot better (before therapy) and so I’m hoping it would get even better with therapy. Abuse, at any percentage, is wrong.

Cooley2here - he controls it outside the home. Only the people that know him well will see his anger. His workers….if around long enough, will see it to a point.

That he controls it to strangers is IMHO a clear indication this is about control and manipulation. He uses the tools he thinks produce results. For a stranger anger and abuse do not generate results, for someone he is close to or thinks he has control over he doesn’t have to worry.

I find a lot of what you say to be helpful to me Bigger

"knows that trickle-truth works, that tantrums work, that HE can"

I came to realize that I was groomed to accept unacceptable behavior from WS. Leaving is and was the most difficult thing I have ever done. And I had amazing people in my life.

I don't judge any bs for their decisions. No one else knows your situation.

For me, though, I am so happy free of infidelity and ws nasty explosive anger and general malice towards me

Edit: Whoops - wrong post.

[This message edited by emergent8 at 7:17 PM, Monday, January 30th]