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Well today I bought a book and I got the audible version because he’s not good at reading he says and he usually will listen to the audiobooks on his own. So I got the book, "The Betrayal Bind," by Michelle Mays and I’ve been reading it today and I was like this is like what I’ve been going through. He came home from work and didn’t really say anything like everything was fine after he went downstairs and slept last night, and he climbed behind me in bed to cuddle. He asked what I was reading and what the title of one of the chapters meant like it’s hooky dook. And then I went and downloaded the audible and started chapter 1 so he could listen to it. And he didn’t say anything and got up and went to take a shower and then started doing dishes and then I went into the kitchen and he tries to hug me and I ask him if he is going to listen to it some more with me and he said no. He said no but I’ll tell u what I will do, I will go to see the MC on the 7th. So I said well then you can sleep downstairs again tonight.
He doesn’t get it. I don’t know why he is like in the war against me to be right and to be like it’s my way or the Highway like he is so entitled and it makes me resent him.

And then today he just came home from work on lunch and tried to lay down in bed with me saying he is going to sleep in his bed with me because he hasn’t slept the past two nights downstairs and he is sick. And he keeps holding his head and going to blow his nose and acting so sick.
I asked him before he tried to lay down if he read any of that book and he said no and I said are you going to and he said no and better yet to ask the IC today if he should read it that he doesn’t want to read it.
So I said no I’m not laying laying down with you. And he got in bed to lay. So I went into other room and came back and asked him after awhile if he was going to listen to the book and he said no he’s sick. Then he got up and was like f this shit and throwing his clothes back on and saying I’m done with this s&hit. And I hope I don’t crash on the way back to work because I’m so tired and haven’t slept. That I get on these tangents and he doesn’t understand what my problem is basically.

Ok, this will be hard to hear, but you need to stop asking him to listen to the book. He's not going to.

He's hoping..and expecting..the MC to tell you to stop talking about it.

And,here's the thing. Lots of MCs are not going to treat the affair aftermath. They're going to treat the marriage. The marriage isn't the problem. He is.

I highly suggest you call the MC before you ever have a session with your husband there. Ask them how they will handle his infidelity. Ask them how they feel about your need to ask questions, have full transparency, and to talk with him about his affair,and how you feel about it. Ask them what they think about triggers,and how you want him to handle it. Thoroughly vet them before you meet with them. Because a bad MC will do so much more harm than good. Especially with an unremorseful WS. Especially with a WS who is rugsweeping,and refusing to talk with you about it. If he walks in there,and the MC tells you it's not helping to ask questions, that you don't deserve answers,and you need to stop talking about it, you will Never get him to understand why you need what you need.

But..honestly? Going to mc with an unremorseful WS is a waste of time. He won't listen to them,anymore than he listens to you. He wants you to shut up. He doesn't care about your feelings.

You need to read the 180,and begin it immediately. You need to make some hard decisions. Either you are going to stop talking about it,and stuff it down,and rugsweep (which will result in never healing), or you 180 and get strong enough to leave this man who doesn't care about your feelings. There isn't anything you can say,or do, to make him get it. He doesn't want to.

Yikes!

He is callous and unsympathetic.
You got no prizes marrying him especially in this state.

Until you find your power he will carry on just like this.

What HellFire said. Especially this:

The marriage isn't the problem. He is.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 5:16 PM, Wednesday, March 15th]

So I went into other room and came back and asked him after awhile if he was going to listen to the book and he said no he’s sick.

What's his plan after he's well? Is he going to commit to listen to a book or have a conversation when he's better? Or is he going to come down with something every time you want to talk?

He might think that going to MC will mollify you, but the bottom line is that simply turning up isn't doing the work. These guys are right... a bad MC can exacerbate your problems my validating your WH's excuses. You've already had one crummy one giving you bad advice and seen how hard it is to try and get back on track after that happens. Your best bet is to interview first and make sure that the new one is well-versed in trauma and infidelity. Some quack who's still working off the "unmet needs" fallacy will make things worse, not better. Marriages don't cheat. People do. Your WH needs to change and if he can't (or won't) do it, you need to know that so you can make plans accordingly.

Twinmom, how are you doing? You're on my mind.

Well I have been not thinking about it and doing the normal chores and picking kids up from school and working. And I feel like when I start to get too comfortable with him and too content then I start asking myself why I am with him when he cheated with same woman for two years and I feel like I doubt myself and my judgment. And when I begin to think about it and begin the just disbelief that he cheated and what I was doing or where I was while he may have been calling her off the phone record. I just resent him and feel like I’m being stupid and I don’t trust him.
So last night he came home and he goes on to get defensive about the affair being brought up and then it’s like I’m the one trying to argue and that how much more of this is he going to have to deal with. That he is fed up with taking about it and apologizing and he’s not going to keep doing it. That he knows how he is and he is going to quit trying and leave. And eventually he left and went somewhere all night (prob slept in car or office). And came back this morning to have sex thinking it will fix my attitude I think. Then afterwards said no more of this arguing. And I’m like he is the one arguing I’m trying to talk and then it’s a disagreement about that. And then he said he was done and left for work and texted me this:
I’m staying in the house. Go find an apartment. I’ll take babies to school like usual. It’s too far gone to save it, I’ve done too much damage and lies are all we’re telling ourselves at this point. All the stuff in the house is yours so sell it or whatever you want to do. I will do everything I can for the babies and we will work together. I am officially getting off of this roller coaster. It’s fucking your up and I can feel it slowly taking years off my life. I love you and I’m sorry I fucked things up for everyone, I really am. But I do want good things for you and for the kids.

This is a big moment for you. Think carefully.

He is either serious and wants to end it or he is hoping the threat gets you in line. If it doesn't, he ends it anyway. It's a win / win for him.

I know this is horribly difficult especially with small children. But separation can be very healing. It gives each of you space to deal with your own wounds. It stops the drama at home. It clears the mind.

It hurts and at first it can feel scary but there are a lot of benefits to taking space.

So think hard about how you want to respond here. You can attempt to change his mind by dancing the pick me dance as hard as you can. It might work. However, your pain and trauma will still be there. Your doubts about being with him will continue to surface. Only now, you'll have to stuff it b/c if not, he leaves.

Or, you can agree to a separation. See an attorney and make it official. I don't see why he gets to stay in the house but whatever works for you and is approved by a lawyer.

Call his bluff. But more importantly, get yourself to a healing space. Then see how the marriage feels.

It's absolutely unacceptable that he was out all night.

He's treating you as if he is having an affair.

He's either done because he can't face what he's done, or he's trying to manipulating you into shutting up.

Either way he isn't remorseful.

Don't leave and get an apartment. Why do you have to leave? See an attorney. File for divorce. Ask for exclusive use of the marital home,and primary custody. And, right now, go to the bank,and take half of the money out,and put it in a separate account that is in your name only.

While you are trying to get used to this new reality, he's been thinking about this for a long time. He's several steps ahead of you. Act now and protect yourself.

So last night he came home and he goes on to get defensive about the affair being brought up and then it’s like I’m the one trying to argue and that how much more of this is he going to have to deal with. That he is fed up with taking about it and apologizing and he’s not going to keep doing it. That he knows how he is and he is going to quit trying and leave. And eventually he left and went somewhere all night (prob slept in car or office).

I hate to think the worst, but when a WS picks a fight and then storms off, it's oftentimes to spend time with the AP. We don't have crystal balls and the ability to read minds, but is it possible he's cheating again?

Your WS might have the right to decide he no longer wants R, but he doesn't get to dictate the terms of separation and divorce to you. See an attorney. Don't wait. Do it as soon as possible. If you can, see more than one, then pick the one you think will work hardest for you and go with that one. Certainly, don't move out unless you've had legal advice.

I'm sorry. I know you were hoping for a different outcome.

I would not leave the house, it can be impossible to get back into it.

I do have a remorseful WH and I STILL took half our money and put it into a single account. Please take action.

I agree that you need to see an attorney ASAP. Don't leave the house until you've spoken with an attorney.

Wow... personality differences aside, your WH has his head firmly still up his ass (takes a former one to know one).

He told me it’s a bunch of hooky dook basically and those people don’t even know us and I rather go on there and listen to them than listen to our old MC that was trying to compare me talking about the affair to a mom trying to talk to her son about smoking weed and how I’m going to push him away.

OHHHH YEAH! I've gotten this one quite a bit, well, without the whole "mom talking to her kid about weed" thing. I was the one to have the full blown A. My H has had his EA's over the years, so, there's things from your WH that remind me of him from those times. Currently my H's take is, "well, it's just a bunch of people with their own opinions and they're limited in what they can offer any way." While he's being pressured to think about things more deeply...

ANYWAY, the amount of gaslighting ("I come home and do chores, what more do you want"), disrespect (you educate yourself on the internet, and now it's "putting ideas in your head"), and contempt he has for you is breathtaking.

FIRE YOUR MC. What the hell is he thinking, advising you to keep quiet about his A so he doesn't get "turned off from you"? You weren't the problem, your WH is. Your WH is the one who chose to cheat, shows continuous cheating behavior and manipulates you with his hot and cold behavior. Your MC is worthless- he's completely incompetent.

The problem isn't you or the marriage. The problem isn't you trying to understand what happened to the one person you should be able to trust. The problem is your WH expects to bully, intimidate, manipulate and abuse you into submission. He doesn't want a relationship. He wants domination and control. He leaves and then tells you to get out of the home. He gets to have an A with a "sex slave" woman that he can control. He flies off the handle, gets defensive and bullies you when you have the audacity to hold him accountable for what he did to you.

I would take him up on his offer for a D at this point. DON'T leave the house. DO get a lawyer. DO take 1/2 the cash in the account.

Also, I would get in touch with a women's shelter in your area. I'm not saying he could get violent or anything, but manipulators and emotional abusers (he sounds like a narcissist) will fight you tooth and nail when they realize they're losing their control. The abuse (emotionally) will only get worse. You're going to need experienced people around you supporting you in this. Women's shelters can get you connected with a community of people who are eager to help and have "been there, done that."

Also, Dr. Ramani was a lifesaver for me. Her youtube talks helped me see clearly what a narcissistic swirl my family was growing up and helped me identify the narcissistic behaviors I learned and gravitated towards in my selection of my H.

So yea I took his stuff out of bedroom and put it all in the living room floor. I told him that if he wasn’t going to participate in my healing and to continue to try to be a better partner then I will have to just work with him to coparent. I am an exotic dancer also. I do it because pays the bills pick my own schedule and I can stay home with kids during the day. I did go to college and have a degree in Biochem and I’m okay with what I do for now to provide for my kids. He woke up and came upstairs and saw his stuff on the ground and flipped out. I thought he heard me taking it in there and setting it on the floor so I didn’t expect him to be stunned by it and I sent him a text message to tell him I was putting his stuff out there and he could stay in basement. He left the house and messaged me this…

I slept maybe three hours in the truck last night in the driveway and I’m exhausted. I’m killing my self trying to get through this, I have said and done every single earthly thing I know to say. I’m doing everything I can to show you. I married you to further show you, you’re the one I want to be with. I absolutely refuse to engage you when you’re pissed off and I refuse to hear "go be with her" for the millionth god damn time! I am tired, and now I’m a pile of shit in the living room again. That will be the absolute last time you throw my shit in the floor again to prove some sort of point. I’ll get a uhaul tomorrow and get my life off the floor where you threw it, and I promise you, I’ll bring nothing back. That’s really what I mean to you at the end of the day. So, the games are over and the gloves are off. Enjoy your life as a single sex worker. Slut, just remember I tried and I cried real tears. Remember the nights when I held you because that’s what you said you needed but it did nothing. A man makes a terrible life choice and lives with regret and dissatisfaction in himself for the things that he’s done to his family and his partner and that man admits guilt and begs for forgiveness at the foot of the one he loves and it’s nothing more than a kick in the face. I’m not happy about leaving, I’m actually very sad, but staying is no longer an option for me. Though I fucked up and made bad choices I’m still a fucking human, I’m still a goddamn man, I’m still their dad, I still have two other daughters. I am actually more than just some emotionless heartless cheating piece of shit! I hate you for going through with getting married. Fuck, I hate you for that so bad! Have fun in court I suppose! I know what expect, so buckle up for this ride. I hope and pray I don’t wake up

I feel like he just heads right to the door anytime there is an emotional crisis starting to boil within me that I need help and love and understanding and empathy. And I get him being defensive instead. I’m tired of it. He goes right to the end every time like our relationship is over like I’m making the decision to end it when I’m not (though this time I did put his stuff out of the bedroom). But he always goes right there to ending it like because I’m bringing it back up again. And it hurts and makes me feel even more powerless and still does not give me any understanding of the affair or why it happened. And he acts like he despises me and like I’m a nagging bitch when I’m not and I’m hurting and heartbroken.
It makes me feel guilty for throwing his stuff out of bedroom like I’m ruining our relationship. And I just feel like he wants me to end his suffering and let him go and to be the one to throw in the towel.
He acts like he hasn’t done anything and he’s already paid for having had the affair and that he’s done paying for it. And I’m not trying to punish him purposely. I’m hurting and just looking to connect and he thinks I’m just trying the shame him and make him feel guilty when I’m reaching out to him to comfort me and help me in this hell he put me in of self doubt and insecurity. And he is so focused on himself and how he feels that he doesn’t see my pain and thinks I’m playing games to punish him.
Am I crazy? Should I be over this affair by now (dday 7/22) and am I being unreasonable for talking about it still or trying to with him? I just feel stuck I guess and I feel like he’s able to just go back to his happy self and not think about it like it didn’t do anything to our relationship.
I wish he would be more sympathetic and less entitled and put my feelings before his own. But it seems impossible to get him to see it that way. He just leaves and ignores me and says he doesn’t have to answer my questions and he’s not going to keep doing this and tolerating me bringing it back up. And I say so be with her usually after he has been defensive and not willing to allow me to talk about it and avoiding me.
I don’t understand why he married me and says he loves me one minute and then acts like that and just gives up.

Wow. That's a lot of really immature threats and bullshit. The fact that he thinks there are ANY circumstances whereby he can refer to his betrayed wife as a "slut" is just beyond rational explanation. I actually don't think I'd respond to that. I think I'd just start calling lawyers tomorrow.

It's all meant to draw you in and intimidate you so that you back down. And all that because you wanted to TALK TO HIM, because you wanted him to get some therapy, because you wanted to know he was working through his issues. That's not much to ask from a guy who stabbed you in the back in emotional terms and then wanted you to forgive him and pledge your life to him. You just didn't ask for that much. Really, you didn't. But his reaction speaks volumes to the CURRENT state of his character.

I think any back and forth discussion you get into with him at this point is just going to be more of the same. If you do get drawn in though, my advice is to really think about your boundaries and what you need for your life, and then to make your stand on those things.

I'm sorry for what you're going through. It's so hard. Just know that you ARE enough to get through this. You are. Have faith in yourself. BE the friend you need in your corner right now.

((hugs))

No Twinmom you should not "be over it" at this point. That phrase sucks and frankly we are never "just over it."

There can come a point where we move on from it but even then it is never gone. And to get to that point takes significant time (think years) and active work on healing. First the individuals and then the marriage.

It absolutely requires a remorseful wayward which YOU DO NOT HAVE. So your marriage remains at the starting line. Your disappointment and frustration with that is 100% valid.

He has shown you who he is and what he is willing to do to save the marriage (nothing but rugsweep). He's told you loud and clear what he expects from you and what he will not do for you.

Ball is in your court. You can try to live with that or you can start making choices that honor your needs and your future.

Call those lawyers. Protect yourself and your children. Focus on them. It's sometimes easier to do what is necessary to protect others when we can't seem to drum up the strength to protect ourselves.

My first thought when reading what he sent to you was: Damn, either his IC really sucks or your H is a narcissist. Or both. Nobody who's doing IC and really getting something from it would write that manipulative bullshit or try to sweep everything under the rug.

I'm proud of you for standing up for yourself. You're not the one ruining your relationship. He already stuck the knife in it. But do stop saying "Go be with her." That's some bullshit, too, because you don't mean it. You've got to act with integrity in your own best interest.

I'd like to suggest that you read The Four Agreements. It really helped me in the early days, and continues to be my touchstone.

This man hates you. He said so. He treats you as if he hates you. He's abusive. He's a horrible person,cheating aside.

He calls you a slut?

Honey, go get that uhaul. Put it in the driveway and tell him to go. Help him pack.

Also,carry a voice activated recorder on you at all times. He sounds like he could become violent. Or accuse you of DV. Have that recorder on,just in case.

This is not your fault. Not even a little bit.