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She doesn't regret the affair?

Wtf?

And that's ok with you?

If she doesn't regret it, she'll do it again.

Why stay with someone like that?

Hey,

We spoke last night, she does regret it, wishes she'd never chose the actions she did to cause me the pain and suffering I went through. She is ashamed, feels humiliated and genuinely remorseful.

Then she said I have something to tell you, promise me you won't get mad. She was conducting a mentoring discussion with her deputy last week and fAP needed to answer a question. He is invited in by fWW and then he said "the question you're going to ask, is it you both want a threesome with me?"

Blatant sexual harassment in the work place, but now she has a witness. After he left the short meeting, she emailed him in a professional manner and to demand he apologised to the deputy, which he did verbally the following day.

We are now trying to agree what she does with this development, does she leave it until her exit interview, which is her preference due to the daily humiliation she is subjected to at work, noting she will resign and leave. My thoughts are she needs to act now to stop this "Weinstein" maniac from hurting any other woman, she's concerned that the misogyny that is prevalent in some staff will be left to fester.

She is stressed, hurting and is struggling with the latest development. I am doing what I can to support and remaining calm. No need for me to end up in jail, over harsh words that fAP thinks is totally fine to utter to his subordinates!

Contact a workplace attorney for a consultation. You will learn some things you didn’t know, I promise.

10,000% what HoP said. Get to an attorney NOW.

Quick update:

She reported him to the CEO, company HR & private legal are now involved, fAP has nowhere to run and is likely professionally ruined. Whatever the outcome, he'll never go near her again. Thank god he did it in front of another co-worker, otherwise it could be a whole different situation.

She's decided that she's had enough of this company and will seek a new role elsewhere. I'm at peace with that decision. He get's his reward for being a "creep". We continue to move forward with R.

It is tough remaining calm and seeking justice, not all receive it but I am thankful for this. Someone on the "other side" has my back!

Be well,

Salty

gr8ful

How can you possibly reconcile this statement:

she does not regret the affair

to this one?

She has been contrite and genuinely remorseful,

At first blush, I’d say OP’s definition of "remorse" is something very different than what the dictionary states…

I think I understand what she might mean by saying she doesn’t regret the affair because it brought about the marriage that she wanted.

I don’t understand this sentiment at all. So the next time the M gets into a funk, she should just step on out again, right? Look how much "good" the last adulterous relationship did for the M, right?

GoldenR

She doesn't regret the affair?

Wtf?

And that's ok with you?

If she doesn't regret it, she'll do it again.

Why stay with someone like that?

Salthorse - an observation (?)

Your path has moved more in the proper direction (based on my rules of integrity) per your last post.

for the posts I copied here - my assessment is you are employing some kind of mental gyration (or were) to rationalize your own thinking - in order to reduce your own pain - by whatever your mental process is/was.

I don't know the psychological term for the "mental process" but can remember reading about it when I took a required course at University.

my assessment is you are employing some kind of mental gyration (or were) to rationalize your own thinking - in order to reduce your own pain - by whatever your mental process is/was.

Isn't that true for all of us? We all have to make choices, and I would bet that virtually all of us want to feel good about our choices. I think reducing one's own pain is a big motivator for many, but I also think some people have other primary motivators.

Personally, one way I consciously approached the choice I had to make was to guess which outcome would minimize the short and long-term pain I would have to deal with. I removed every blinder I could perceive, but who knows what blinders I couldn't perceive - and kept?

Since we can't predict the future, we can hope only to make a good guess - and be grateful that we can change our minds, if we guess wrong.

*****

Salthorse, Your WS may be coming around to attitudes that support R, but I wish she saw a difference between destroying your M by cheating and restoring it after the A by - what is she doing? - working to make the M good. As Bigger's metaphor so clearly points out, it's not the A that makes the M better - it's the work the partners do after the A that matters.

Hippo16 - thanks for your comment, fWW is in a better place to R. The sexual harassment brought everything back and she realises she has further work to do. I bought books recommended on here including "Not Just Friends". She's digging into her why's and has shared them, obvs I am not sharing everything on here but her childhood plays a part, as does her estrangement.

Sisoon - thank you too. She is aware that what she did is wrong, and the wrong way to correct what was missing in the marriage. She accepts she has work to do to understand her reasons and to be safe for continued R.

I have sat with my pain, and can honestly say it's worse than being shot at or anything I've ever experienced. I've survived. I process stuff quickly but have taken lessons from on here where others have shared painful DDs. I've been waiting for her to catch up with me, I'm not accepting rug sweeping, I can say the communication is much improved, I am being vulnerable, which is new for me.

Progress is happening and I share a number of observations with others on here, I also thank the community for sharing as I pick up pointers in why I feel a certain way at a certain point in the day, week, month. Every day is a school day.

The CEO confirmed today that he's taking action and the board will have a member present to ensure continuity in the case should anything happen to him.

Be well

Salty

[This message edited by Salthorse at 3:42 PM, Thursday, February 22nd]

How can you possibly reconcile this statement:

she does not regret the affair

to this one?

She has been contrite and genuinely remorseful,

I don't think it is difficult to understand, only difficult to accept. She is sorry for the pain that she brought on to her spouse and for not being able to be the wife she wanted to be, but she was in a state of mind in which she wanted the affair and even if NOW she doesn't want it anymore, she does not regret an experienced that has shaped her the way she is today.

I honestly prefer such a statement to saying they regret it, because it would make me want to slap them for their hypocrisy. They wanted it, they had it knowing it could put the matrimony at risk. They were selfish and at least they admit to it. .

[This message edited by Molly65 at 8:09 PM, Thursday, February 22nd]

Molly65, thanks again.

I understand what you've posted. She alone decided our marriage was over, there was no discussion, her needs were clearly not being met by me, she felt disrespected by me, she was vulnerable, manipulated, and all the other clichés we hear. I did the hard 180, she started D proceedings, meanwhile the A fell to pieces as it was based on pure fantasy and the POSOM is a narc!

She is proud and did not wish to look foolish in confessing the mahoosive mistake she made when she realised what she had done...looking back it was totally preventable. She is humiliated, ashamed and is reminded daily at work of the monumental F up she created. It's been quite hard on her MH&WB.

She is genuinely heartfelt sorry for the pain she caused me, the family, friends, herself. When she processes the A she totally affaired down, and now is doing the work to repair herself and to be a safe partner in R. There's also deep seated historical trauma from childhood and fWW does not feel worthy, her self belief can be shockingly low for a successful professional and female role model.

I have had to sort myself out, and accept what's happened, it's a "merde" sandwich for sure! But I realised that my actions enabled her to feel vulnerable & disrespected after many years of (80%) good marriage. Humans make mistakes, I can forgive, I didn't think I could as I thought it would be a deal breaker.

To conclude, it's been a tough 20 months, we're moving forward, both doing the work and the M is much improved. I can accept what's happened, I may not like it but I'm not vengeful. Blind trust is gone and I am circumspect, vigilant and investing in a second marriage.

Be well

Salty

[This message edited by Salthorse at 9:08 AM, Friday, February 23rd]

Nice to read your good news.

Hard work can make most anything happen.

Fun thing about being married - a lot of people don't realize the work never stops.

I think you will be happy 5-10 years from now.

How are you going Salty?
Are you and your WW still making progress?

FAWH,

Yes thank you. It's been a tough few weeks but we are making progress. Right now she's considering what she's does next and perhaps some IC. She's determined to move on and the only way that can be done is leave her company and start afresh.

I'm holding my boundaries better and she often asks if I am punishing her for what's happened, which I see no reason to behave in that way. I have forgiven her. She's reading "Not just friends" and "Worthy" and I expect many more lightbulb moments as she better understands herself and her actions.

I have had many apologies and "WTF did I think I was doing"!!! She recognises she lied, cheated, affaired down and broke her own moral code. She is also trying to understand the path to her affair and ensure she does not repeat those actions or place herself at risk. The remorse is forthcoming from her and I see greater understanding of her "whys" and sharing many aspects.

As for me, I'm glad to have found SI, I am out of infidelity and plan on not being a repeat statistic. However, I can only control me, & I do not like eating the "merde" sandwich!

Take good care

Salty

I've forgiven her, and slightly amused at her daily penance, she considers it as punishment in a way. She's struggling with what she's brought on our family.

Q: How can I support her and help her heal? Does anyone have any points or advice to share from a similar situation?

Marriages are complicated. We have specific histories with our spouses that are not always evident in a post. Affairs are never the fault of the BS, but given the contexts we have for why they happened, sometimes we can find forgiveness; and I am glad if you have. I hope your WS appreciates that gift. If she has forgiven you for other things in the marriage, appreciate that, also, as a gift.

To your question, I can only answer that WS also needs healing. Affairs sometimes are expression of brokenness, and if she feels she needs daily penance there is more work to do.

Support her by encouraging her to unpack and explore that feeling. Support her by encouraging IC. Support her by setting clear boundaries for what contact is ok and what is not. Listen. Embrace honesty and transparency.

Most of all, evaluate being amused. Where does that feeling come from, and does it support her?

RF,

Thanks, and the gift of forgiveness both ways is understood and I agree.

On the amused point, I've thought about that over the weekend. I was "amused" as she was punishing herself, I neither asked nor encouraged her to so do. I looked up penance - punishment inflicted on oneself as an outward expression of repentance for wrongdoing.

I wanted to give her the space to chose what is right for her and us, our healing and R. I don't need to see her punishing herself, I think we've been through enough. Her days at work have been difficult for her in case she see's fAP, and she becomes totally ashamed and disgusted by her choices and the damage she's inflicted to our M. That's for her to work through, I will support.

After the sexual harassment, which has been dealt with. She was severely triggered and it brought out more of her feelings and hurt and what she did to us. She has anxiety and when he just turned up on her floor to do his "role" it caused panic attacks and distress.

Her CEO has put a stop to that, which has given her respite and she is looking at new openings elsewhere, she concluded that in order to fully heal she needed to leave and start afresh, I support and encourage this decision.

I've encouraged her to read "Not Just Friends" and she's doing it to understand, heal and to think about her triggers. I am reading, listening and working on me too. Growth has been huge this year and I am hopeful for the future, our M2.0 is solid and we're climbing out of the dark into the light.

Be well
Salty

, our M2.0 is solid and we're climbing out of the dark into the light.

That is beautiful. Hold on to that,because that is what will make her know you are both supported in the work of recovery.

How can I support her and help her heal? Does anyone have any points or advice to share from a similar situation?

One of the things I learned early on was that even though there was nothing my H could do to ever compensate for the damage he did from having his A...he very desperately wanted to TRY. So I let him . I had certain expectations...and watched him RISE to them! This gave him encouragement so that he would try and do more toward that area. Is this how your wife is?

I figured that if my H felt that NOTHING he could do would ever matter...then he would not become the H I wanted him to be for ME. So when he did something that made my heart feel better...I let him know . It did wonders for him to know that my heart was healing...which did wonders for me...WIN-WIN !

Working toward any type of a positive goal would give a positive feeling for my H...and for me too! Could this maybe be something that you could try? It doesn't have to be fancy or anything. I have written some of the things we did in the "Positive Reconciliation Stories" that is at the top of this Forum ! Just having 4 hugs a day helps our psyche...so you can ask her to help you by giving 4 hugs a day. Would this be something that she would like or want to do?

Make it FUN...make it LIGHT...and make it POSITIVE...and hopefully she will reciprocate with those things too . In the end...it truly will be her choice on how she takes your offer. Here's to a brighter future to you BOTH !!!

W2BHA,

Thank you, she is doing more than she used to and appreciates what I do in the marriage and our life together, certainly more than before. I was advised over 12 months ago by IC to sit back and let the "embers" of our marriage have air and watch them ignite as she takes ownership of her side of the marriage and R. I did and it's worked, she's more affectionate, more secure and demonstrable. I have chilled out and learned to take a day at a time. I've been away on business, she felt needy and said to take care of myself, she sees she has something of value to lose, that's quite a turnaround.

FWW's finished reading "Not Just Friends" and gets it now, phew! It was an uncomfortable read for her but I encouraged her to stick with it and sit with her feelings and thoughts, no judgement from me. I'm still working on me and currently learning more about peri-menopause and its affect on women.

Be well
Salty

Recently she admitted that she wouldn't look at him twice in the street, and is processing all that has come to pass, with disbelief and regret.

But she does not regret the affair. Am I missing something here? If she doesn't regret the affair, why wouldn't she look at him twice in the street?

She seems actually to say she is in disbelief and regret.

Personally I believe these are the typical sentences a wayward spouse would say because they are the words a betrayed spouse would like to hear. I would rather she said, I am very sorry for bringing pain on to you, not for regretting a choice she renewed every day for how long??

If I betrayed my spouse, a thing I really don't know how people can do, I wouldn't regret that choice. You can say it did not work out the way you thought, but regretting it seems to me a big fat lie. I am sure she enjoyed whatever she did with him, she may be sorry for the pain, not for what she experienced.

Hi, WS here... I have not had the opportunity to read the other responses here, but I want to add some quick things. For a WS, especially one who actually understands what they did and has deep remorse, guilt, and shame over it, there is definitely a common desire to "punish ourselves". Unfortunately, doing so does not help the WS or the BS. In fact, it just puts the focus on the WS all over again. This cycle needs to be broken, and the only way to do that is to forgive ourselves for failing to be the people we should have been in the first place and to make a commitment to do better moving forward. It is an exercise in recreating our own self-respect and dignity.

I suggest that she read "The Book of Forgiveness" by Desmond Tutu. It is an amazing book and one of the few I've seen that discusses forgiving ourselves and others.

I also recommend "Rising Strong" by Brene Brown which is about vulnerability and authenticity.

The last recommendation I have is for her to "turn it around" in her head and take back both her power and her own self-respect. It is not HER penance, having to work with him. It is HIS penance, having to face her every day knowing what he did to her, her marriage, and her family. She should look at him like he's a pig every time she sees him, and keep her head high, and know that every day, she is taking steps to become a better person with a better relationship, while he... he is still the same pig he has always been. She's not perfect, but she's dedicated to do better, and that's why she will always be better than he is. That's how I suggest she approach it.

Good luck to you both.

(One last thing. Remember to take what works for you and leave the rest. Everyone on SI does their best to advise others to their best ability, but we are each unique, and no one solution fits all situations. Take the best and leave the rest).