SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi,

We're 18 months into R. fWW is still peeling back the layers of her A, and starting to gain clarity as to the why and many actual WTF moments, coupled with mid life crisis, peri-meno health issues and ongoing grief from the loss of a close family member. She's had a great deal of hard knocks in life but is an amazing, resolute and capable woman/mother who has overcome much to be a successful professional in her own discipline. However, she must sit with her pain, process her actions, and do the work.

She works in the same company as former AP and has remained there, he's known amongst the workforce for being a bit of a sex pest/groomer/takes advantage of vulnerable women. They have some contact for professional reasons but the law ensures he keeps to the facts, otherwise she'd get him sacked. I'm ok with it, I admit it's been triggering on occasion but I sit with my feelings and process them, sometimes they pour out as frustration due to unmet expectations, she takes longer to think about things than I do but usually arrives at a reasoned and sound position. The posts on here have been illuminating and I get to grips with the personal stories others' confide on here, and what to expect during recovery and in R. They have helped me understand and make sense of my reactions above.

She's horrified having to work where she's at and in her words "it's like paying penance" for her wayward decision to affair down with a senior co-worker. Recently she admitted that she wouldn't look at him twice in the street, and is processing all that has come to pass, with disbelief and regret. Although she does not regret the affair, as it has brought about the M we should have had from the beginning, lots to unpack there but for another time. She has been contrite and genuinely remorseful, we're heading to a redefined M and we're both committed to ensuring that communication is two way, we're both vulnerable and we are honest with each other.

I've forgiven her, and slightly amused at her daily penance, she considers it as punishment in a way. She's struggling with what she's brought on our family.

Q: How can I support her and help her heal? Does anyone have any points or advice to share from a similar situation?

Thank you
Salty

Senior co-worker, as in older, or senior co-worker as in a supervisor or manager?

I would say its a major red flag that your wife doesnt regret her affair. Its kind of like her crushing your legs but "hey, He spends more time at home now."
I can understand being happy that changes are made in your relationship but does ripping your heart out to get these changes that could have been made in a less traumatizing way really make your wife glad she had an affair?

Bigger - senior as in senior position in the company. No laws here as in the USA but watching out for harassment, if he steps out of line.

NARUp - I hear you, there's more to my side than I care to explain on here as I like my anonymity. I've had my shortcomings regarding behaviour in the marriage, verbal abuse due to PTSD and FOO issues. True, I did not deserve my heart being ripped out, she is genuinely contrite regards that fact. She did not deserve my poor behaviour either, therapy has helped me process my issues.

I can live with what's occurred, its not a deal breaker, but as part of the process I want to help her heal too.

How can you possibly reconcile this statement:

she does not regret the affair

to this one?

She has been contrite and genuinely remorseful,

At first blush, I’d say OP’s definition of "remorse" is something very different than what the dictionary states…

Salt horse, I am sorry you came here with a specific question and rather answering with advice on that question you were bombarded with pitchforks and the insecurity of other keyboard psychologists. I think many are scared off this site for that reason. You are clearly at peace with your decisions and that is what should matter. My advice on your question is to continually let her know you recognize her healing and
Progress and that as long as she continues her path you’re not going anywhere. The rest of the work is up to her. I wish you well. Sounds like you’ve got a good head on your shoulders and are secure in yourself and decisions. If this is so, your healing is ahead of most.

I can understand that your werent a perfect spouse. She obviously wasnt either. My thoughts are that my house had some things wrong with it. Colors I didnt like. A noisy water heater. The doors would slam, and wouldnt you know that roof needed replacing. My response wasnt to drive my car through the living room and being grateful that insurance would pay to replace most of the things I could have handled with a little elbow grease.
I dont think your wife understand what she has done. She betrayed you. Its a slap in the face to hear that she is happy that she "now" has a marriage she wants. I would tell her that the next time she she fails to provide the marriage that you want that maybe you now have the freedom to screw someone on the side to, you know, improve the marriage!

This thinking by your wife is ridiculous. I understand she may be under the fog or whatever. She just doesnt realize the impact this will have on you. The sleepless nights. The mind movies. The anger and sadness. She may have been unhappy in her marriage with you but now she has created a wake of destruction in your life and the life of her APs BS that is not seen outside of a Godzilla movie.

She needs to see this for what it really is. Her affair was not a remedy for your marriage. There was likely problems, but if having an affair solved problems their would be a 1-800 Rent-A-Ho in the phone book.

Actually it’s not laws per se that keep companies in line with sexual harassment.
Like – I don’t think a single state in the USA has a law that specifically says "Having sex with someone that is directly below you in a company hierarchy is illegal and punishable with up to ten years in jail" or anything like that.

If anything, the norms and expectations are even firmer in Europe (and the UK is still technically part of Europe) due to better unionization and worker-rights. For a company the fear is that a subordinate tells their union that they felt they needed to give the manager a BJ to get a raise, to not be fired or whatever. Or for someone to scream wrongful dismissal or preference because they were fired and not the floozy the manager is doing.

I have been working in the cooproate world for some time, and this is a general, unwritten rule. It’s sort-of like a job description wont state things like "part of your job is that you don’t steal company money", but rather it’s an expected behavior that you don’t. I have personally witnessed instances where a subordinate was moved between departments to cut the managerial-chain (no infidelity, but a relationship), where a manager was "promoted" to "Head of Office Supplies – Alaska" and where managers (and staff) have slunk away some time after their disgressions came to light when they realize they will never get a bonus or promotion. Corporate really hates it when a manager opens the company to serious liability…

Look – I think that your wife is playing the victim here… She can change jobs. Don’t see anything forcing her long-term to work there. Might be a worse job or less pay or whatever. Or a better one… Has she made any attempt to find a new job?
Or… if a company has a manager that is notorious for womanizing… something tells me the management would want to deal with that. It could be by firing the messenger… but that’s why your first step would be to talk to a union-rep or solicitor, and make it clear your wife is letting HR know because of the OM actions. That might – worst-case-scenario – give your wife a year severance while she looks for a new job.
It could also be relocating her, or glowing recommendations to another job in another company.

But… it would definitely be action, rather than remaining in misery.

Salt horse, I’ll

Add that the majority of people here think that infidelity trumps all other hurts in a marriage and that the cheater shall be hung out to dry regardless of how the non cheater behaved throughout a marriage. In other words, you could have gotten drunk and beaten your wife to a bloody pulp nightly and although not right, it in no way is as sinful as cheating. You don’t seem to have that mentality nor do I. Keep that in mind as you read here. If you are at peace with her remorse and where your marriage is heading then that’s all that matters. That being said, I do not believe anything you did or didn’t do justifies her cheating nor can anything you did to her be justified by your ptsd, etc.

[This message edited by OnTheOtherSideOfHell at 3:16 PM, Tuesday, January 23rd]

To answer your question, I think trying to be the best version of yourself will help you both. That and continuing to try to be a safe place for her to heal from this too. I get the idea that you shouldn't have to try as the BS. But, I think having some empathy helps.

When she says she doesn't "regret" the A. I get that, too. My FWH said that, as well. He regrets that this is what had to happen for him to realize what he might lose. We both know that it didn't HAVE to happen. He also wouldn't look twice at OW...or says as much. I am grateful for the work we've put in to get us here. We both recognize that there are no guarantees going forward. That fairytale has died.

Q: How can I support her and help her heal? Does anyone have any points or advice to share from a similar situation?

She shouldn’t be working where he is. Why is she? Pressure placed by you?

If so, relax that pressure. Let her know that the knock-on effects of her quitting are OK, not a burden to you.

Salthorse,

I think I understand what she might mean by saying she doesn’t regret the affair because it brought about the marriage that she wanted. I’m guessing the affair forced both of you out of your haze and bad habits of interacting, and into action on improving your relationship? And while the affair was the absolute WORST way to do that, the result was something she doesn’t regret. So, the negative resulted in a positive - she ended up taking the wrong route to the place she wanted to be.

I suppose I understand that.

I also understand that she should see that there were other alternatives. It’s likely she does.

Your question is about how you can support her.

In her case, she experienced the loss of a love one. That grief may have contributed to her vulnerability in the affair, according to what you have said. Help her find a grief support group or counseling regarding that, if she hasn’t done that already.

I have a book suggestion that is way outside the norm here. It is not about affairs. It is about our ability to excuse ourselves, to justify our own actions when they are not justified. It is written by a group called The Arbinger Institute. It’s called The Anatomy of Peace. It discusses the idea of how we go through that moment in our head when we say "I know I shouldn’t BUT" and then we just go ahead and do the wrong thing anyway.

The book has made a huge difference in my thinking, and my WH made an incredible breakthrough in understanding his own behavior and my pain when he read it.

And it changed me fundamentally when I read it. I mean FUNDAMENTALLY. I now see who I was before and shake my damn head.

I did not mean to give the impression that his wife is some evil person who deserves to be burned at the stake. I am sure that she "feels" that her affair was a wake-up call. i thinks its noble of the OP to attempt to R and be a better spouse. I just worry about the next time things get rocky that an affair becomes the "fix-all" to the problems.
I am not in the OPs situation and Im sure there is alot being left out. I would find it impossible to accept that my ex wife would feel that the worst injury she inflicted on me was the best thing she did for our marriage.
Salt. You are 18 months out and appear to be handling things as well as you can. I would ask your wife that if she doesnt regret her affair because it made your marriage better, where does she draw the line? Hypothetically if you slapped your wife everytime she did something wrong until she got it right, would she feel you were justified in your behavior because you now have the marriage you want?
I feel like she is putting her feelings above yours. The way it is portrayed is that she suffered more and the affair was the cost that YOU had to pay. She only has to suffer that the AP didnt choose to stay with her. She was rejected by the person she chose to cheat with but doesnt look at how she rejected you.
Can she look at you in your pain and not feel responsible? I would feel like a POS to see someone balling their eyes out because I hurt them so deeply.
To have an attitude of "I think my affair was a good thing for us" just spits in the face of Reconciling, especially since she said she didnt want the marriage during and after her affair. This same train of thought is like having a baby to save a marriage. You dont solve problems by adding more problems to it.

How can you help her heal? You can't. That's her work. A WS must do the work on themselves.

You can love her of course. And be encouraging. But she has to heal herself. Just as you have yo heal yourself. Of course, there are a lot of things a WS can do to help heal their BS, but,in the end, the BS must heal themselves. Just as a WS must heal themselves.

Also..don't be discouraged by a few of the posts. The vast majority of members are here to help. Being individuals, we all have our own way of giving advice. What works for one, may not work for another. We've had members get upset because they thought posts were too harsh..and we've had members who have said those harsh,more blunt posts, are exactly what they needed.

Edited to add: I've just read your profile story. Is your ww still acting as MC, for the AP,while at work?

Has your wife had any consequences? She kept the job, still has contact with AP, the friends that encouraged the affair are still friends,etc.

Has she done any work on herself to become a safe partner?

[This message edited by HellFire at 4:29 PM, Tuesday, January 23rd]

Thanks for the replies and recommendations. I'm not insulted by the posts, I understand the passion you all have on here to get out of infidelity and help others. I'll follow up with her on further grief IC and source the book.

To make clear it was not physical abuse, I was quite disrespectful on a regular basis, which came out as verbal disrespect usually after alcohol and not feeling enough, but that was my insecurity, she's a gentle soul, but as I've learned on here its ok to not know what you don't know and to be kind to myself. Therapy and self study has placed me in a position to R. We had filed for D and I was truly out of infidelity having used the 180 and the teachings I found. But with patience, understanding and kindness. We both became candidates for R.

The "fog" "limerence" all that comes with infidelity was textbook, cheaters handbook, I've done significant work to understand why people do what they do and the brain altering trauma that comes hand in hand for me. SI is an amazing place to be and read and to get help, honestly, for those who chose whatever solution to gain peace using the help and direction offered here are fortunate. I'm humbled by the stories.

Of note, she did offer to resign, I gave her the power to chose, she's come to the conclusion that she's had enough and is seeking alternative opportunities. She and I both want to lead a simpler life. To see our tween grow into a woman, together. She knows there is no second chance if she decides to have a repeat. I hope/don't think that she will, I think she's learned a hard lesson, but as many on here know you no longer trust fWS blindly, but walk forward with vigilance, strong boundaries and self respect.

I am short on time so I am responding only to the initial post. I didn’t have a chance to read what others wrote yet thought I am interested.

To me, a sign of healing is when I let go of the notion I need to be punished.

Simple, but very difficult to land there after all the destruction and wasted time. A believe that the root of most healing comes from learning to love yourself, and give yourself compassion. Because once you can do that, you have it to give others. Our relationship with others is merely a mirror of our relationship with ourselves.

I have to say at 18 months you thinking about helping her heal seems a little aliens to me. Yes, it’s good you want to maintain your side of the street, but healing is long term for both the bs and ws and I feel at 18 months it’s normal of your healing is still the main focus for you.

Hellfire, no she no longer acts as MC at work for POSOM. She's had consequences, boundaries are firm and I feel safe.

Bigger, wife not playing the victim, perhaps of her own stupidity that she now realises her A wasn't the best choice for our marriage, addressing the issues and asking for what she needed!

Hikingout, noted, 18 months is the point where I am strong enough and safe enough to offer her that and being of service, giving rather than taking. R is a long road and I am under no illusions that it is difficult and cyclical and there will be setbacks.

There's been no rug sweeping, we spoke this morning and she feels very stressed because of her role, she's decided to resign and seek something less stressful and away from fAP so she can heal. POSOM often does things to inconvenience her, I can't explain more on here as anonymity is important to us both, lets just say misogyny reigns in the her work place but is hidden well.

I do appreciate comments, time and suggestions. I am working on me, less reliant on alcohol and practicing self kindness, journaling and living in the moment.

Salthorse

I have used this comparison/story so often that anyone with more than 12 months on this site can probably skip the next paragraphs:

Imagine you live an unhealthy lifestyle. Like you smoke two packs a day, eat irregularly and mainly fast-food, drink coffee by the gallons and booze by the tumblers. You sleep irregularly and can most mornings be found going through road-rage while you try to get to work without being late. At work you are generally behind on your projects, feel underpaid and that is reflected in the late-payment letters waiting at home…
Then one day you experience a pain down your left arm and next think you know you wake up at hospital, having been revived after a heart-attack.

In some ways that was where your marriage was. The unhealthy lifestyle of the marriage might be more-or-less all on your wife, but any marriage that has infidelity is an unhealthy one. The moment she decided to have an affair is the moment your marital arteries clogged, and d-day is when the doctor is telling you that if you don’t change things you are doomed.

That’s what the doctor is telling you: You need to get your life in order if you want to live.
So you read about methods to cut smoking. You talk to a nutritionist about healthier options. You buy access to a gym. You order dry-fast clothes to exercise in and a lifestyle coach to organize your days…
If that’s all you do you won’t get anywhere…
Its only when you start doing the work that the results might come in. It’s when you use one or two of the methods to quit smoking to quit that you quit. It’s when you put on those dry-fast clothes and hit the gym. It’s when you open those cook-books and make from scratch salmon with brown rice. It’s when you go to sleep early to wake up in a timely manner to beat traffic to work. It’s when you budget and pay your bills on time…

Do that for a year and you might stop at the top of the hill on your daily three mile jog and enjoy the scenery. You might reflect on how now – a year since you were lying in a hospital bed with tubes sticking in and out of your body – you are in better health, shape and overall mental wellbeing than you have been for years.

But… If you had half a brain, you would NOT be saying "Thank God I had that cardiac arrest, otherwise I would NEVER have reached this new pinnacle of health!".
You would realize that the only reason you are where you are is because you took the correct steps to be there, and that you could have gotten there without ever having that health-scare. You might even acknowledge that for years you knew smoking is unhealthy and you should quit, yet you made no effort.
If you had half a brain, you would feel regret at having had to reach a stage where this change was the only way forward, but you would realize that all along you could have led a healthier lifestyle.

It’s not the cardiac arrest or the unhealthy lifestyle that created any benefit you might be experiencing now, but rather the work you have put into changing things.

The same applies to your wife and any change that might be in her or the marriage since d-day.

ANY benefit that you two have gained were not thanks to her decision to have an affair, but completely 100% due to YOUR decision not to divorce, her decision to end the affair and your combined decision to work at the marriage.
ALL that benefit could have been gained without her having first had an affair.
If her affair was due to her unhappiness in the marriage ALL the benefit gained could have been gotten with a frank conversation.

I think this is a key issue.
Something she needs to see and agree with.
There is NO BENEFIT AT ALL from her affair, and she should never be grateful that she had it because it led to the present improvement.

Great post by Bigger.

I think I understand what she might mean by saying she doesn’t regret the affair because it brought about the marriage that she wanted.

I don’t understand this sentiment at all. So the next time the M gets into a funk, she should just step on out again, right? Look how much "good" the last adulterous relationship did for the M, right?

I have often said that the affair brought for me tremendous growth. That the work afterwards has improved my ability to conduct a relationship. I would not ever say I don’t regret the affair.

I didn’t pick up on that until I had more time to read through the thread.

I don’t actually see how someone could be remorseful if they don’t regret their actions. In fact, I don’t just regret that it destroyed my husband. I regret how much it took from my life as well. I traumatized myself in ways that were completely avoidable. My remorse for the whole situation is always going to be there as the slowest healing scar of my life.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:05 AM, Thursday, January 25th]