SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

That is something you will have to decide. You have to follow your own intuition and what knowledge you have.

In my experience, I said and did all sorts of stuff that didn’t make sense, especially in those early months. I was cold, I was not empathetic. I blurted out things I couldn’t take back. I am not trying to convince you of anything but I think you would have to look chard for a ws who didn’t act that way early on, or a bs who isn’t haunted by that. I am not saying this matters at all- you have to do what you need to do and what is right for you.

There is an article in the healing library about how ws brain wash themselves. We live in such a deep state of cognitive dissonance that most of all of us dehumanize our spouses. That doesn’t make it right, nor should it make it palatable. I am only saying that we all do this. There sometimes might be a bs who will say their ws didn’t say cruel or stupid things but I haven’t seen that often.

H/O thank you for that , I agree.

He said that he hates the things he said to me afterwards but he said it was hard to face who he was and he was hurting and he didn't handle it well. He said his worlds collided and so on, much like everyone here says.

You're right, only I can make the decision on if I can move past his words.

The things he said to me , when I first found the photo of them , I called him and he came right home he got in my face and said that he put it in her butt.... like effing her in the vagina wasn't enough that is when I got physical with him the first time and only time.. he still swears he didn't do that but he wanted to hurt me because he got caught.

I stilllllllllll to this day will ask him over and over if he really did that with her and he still says it was out of spite... and he gets very upset at himself bc he can't take it back

so, absolutely horrible.

Yeah that’s pretty bad. I am definitely not defending him. I can’t imagine how hard that would have been, I too would have probably come out punching on a comment like that.

Yea, the comments were pretty bad.
He had a HUGE anger problem which is now under control but I swear most of the trauma that I have is due to the TT and how he treated me for the first month after. Is he that way now? No. Doesn't erase the fear that I have that he will say something like that again out of anger.

Groot, seriously, I could have wrote this post!

I think about this all the time and I’m relieved to see from others here that it is completely normal - phew 😮‍💨

Like, I’ve managed to catch him once, how many other times over our almost 14 years together did he get away with it. Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine I would ever have to worry about my H doing this to me or his family in the first place … so I just didn’t worry ever, it was never a possibility. Now that it’s happened and he’s been caught, he has shown me what he’s capable of and sadly it makes me question not just the timeframe of the A, but the entirety of our relationship. Obviously I have a long road to travel to find healing, but at 9 months out from DDay, I feel (or at least I think I feel) … I have the full truth of the A and have pieced together the puzzle enough that I am able to see and understand the full picture. Not that it makes any of this any easier.

"I don't know if it is my lizard brain trying to keep me safe because lately we have had better days. I explained to him last night that the idea of starting to heal and then something new coming out would literally kill me. Some days in my brain it is better to stay hurt because if I stay hurt then if something else comes out I won't fall too far down." …..
This is one of my biggest fears as well and probably the reason I refuse to let my walls down indefinitely. I told my H that if any sort of "big" revelation were to ever come out regarding the A or something in the past, we would be done and that now is the time to come clean because I’m done waiting for the next shoe to drop. He swears up and down this was the only occurrence … the old me would have believed him with 110% confidence, now I’m stuck trying to distinguish between his truth and his lies.

There are so many times during my day where I think getting a D would just be "easier" … hell, I feel like I wouldn’t be so stressed or have to worry about the uncertainty of my future with a known cheater. I miss feeling confident in him and truly wonder if that confidence will ever resurface.

I’m hoping over time, the feeling of questioning every little thing about us will surpass. Right now I don’t see it, but I want to believe us BS’s will eventually get to a point in our healing that our questioning and worrying subsides.

Honestly, I’ve been heavily contemplating having my H complete a polygraph - with one of the questions relating to any past incidents. I haven’t researched too much info about them … but I’ve read some posts here on SI (I think Bigger is the polygraph guru) and am wondering if my mind will ease (one way or another) if I decide to go this route.

I have to think that this feeling is normal. I know I certainly felt the way you do, Groot. It makes sense. You have a few constant assumptions in your life - some that you're not even aware of - and when one (about the most important person in your life) is shaken in this way, it unmoors you so sufficiently that you feel like you have to go back and confirm whether anything you thought you knew was real. Like, is 1+1 actually 2? I mean, have been proceeding on the basis that it is, but after infidelity, I better go back and actually confirm. So much of what you know about your spouse is based, at least in part, about what they have told you, and now that you've learned that they can lie straight to your face WITHOUT YOU HAVING ANY IDEA, you wonder if you can trust anything that they have said ever. I struggled with the narrative I had of our relationship history. I had to start back at the beginning and really figure out what part of it was and wasn't real.

It's also protective. Like, you're in the process of trying to open yourself up to the idea of trusting and being vulnerable with this person (who hurt you worse than anyone in the world) again and all of a sudden you can see (and feel!) how much is at stake. It's scary.

Beyond trying to trust him, I also had to learn to trust myself again. I had no idea the A was going on - I wasn't one of those people who suspected the A and investigated it to prove my suspicions correct. I kind of found out by accident. I felt like if I had missed this, what else had I missed. I think not being able to trust myself and my own judgments felt worse in some ways than not knowing if I could trust him.

I can tell you that a lot of my own work was getting to a point mentally where I knew that if the other shoe dropped and he cheated again (or there was a secret second family or something insane), I would be okay. I think a lot of people focus on trying to ensure that their spouse could never do that again -and I mean, yeah - that's useful. But it's not everything and its no way to live. No matter how vigilant you are, there are ways and so I needed to trust that if it happened again I would survive it. Like yes, obviously I would be devastated and furious, but I also know I would get through it and come out in tact. Once I felt secure in myself, my fear around the other stuff felt less intense.

I don't believe there are actually cheaters who just cheat once. I think they've cheated many, many times before they get to the point of being caught.

This is nonsensical suggestion. It is one thing to say that you believe that once someone cheats, they are always prone to do it again (and I might actually agree with you). But like, every cheater will have had to cheat for the first time. Even if you believe they are always going to do it again if given the opportunity, until they actually do, they have cheated once.

Heartbrokenwife.

I keep going back and forth with the polly. Honestly I don't think I trust them but then again I don't trust my H soooo.

I asked my H today what he would be willing to do to help me feel safe about my last ten years, (he has already given me full access to his phone, email, etc)

he said he would go do the polygraph, he offered.

I messaged him back and told him that is back on the table and probably wont come off for a long time but I thanked him for offering. Obviously I will wait a bit but it is sounding better and better atp.

I am still struggling with this almost 2.5 after initial d day. My WH gave a parking lot confession actually it was right after I asked for a poly that revealed multiple ONS. I had major trickle truth for a year before that. I always had a nagging feeling. I am still in shock at times of who my WH is. I’m healing and don’t cry as much anymore but it’s been replaced with a very strong indifference to him that I hope will improve but may not. I’ve been honest with him about this.
But yes I see our past very differently now. That is a sad consequence that I did not deserve.
I would say if you have any questions of other indiscretions go for the poly. I do think it was crucial for me, I would have never let the questioning go.

For me, I questioned my past from the time we started dating through the A. At first, I thought things like was he really happy when we were camping with the kids and all kinds of extended family, was he happy when we had our first trip to Disney, etc. I realized that I was looking at it wrong. It really didn't matter if he was happy or not, because he lied a lot. (He's diagnosed covert narc.)

The way I reframed it was - What are my memories of that time? Was I happy camping? Not always but enjoyed the company. Did I enjoy our first trip to Disney, going to the beach, etc? When I was happy, I was happy. When I was sad, I was sad. My feelings were authentic for the information I had at the time. If I were to learn of earlier APs, it wouldn't change my feelings about the past.

I didn't do a poly because I knew enough about the A that I didn't need more details. I got enough info from their texts and videos. Plus, XWH is a covert narc, so he lies a lot, and can be the type of person who wouldn't fail the poly. There are some things pre-A that I would have like to have known, but it wasn't going to change the outcome. It may have given me the determination to leave earlier but it only took 12-18 months to realize he really wasn't doing the work to be a safe partner.

I struggle so much with this as well. We had been together over 20 years on DD and now 20 months later I think I actually trust him even less on this than immediately after DD.
After DD I still somehow trusted that this was his first A. Perhaps it was minimizing. I was never TT at all, in fact, since I found their entire chat I found out more than I ever wanted or could cope with, many things haunt me still. But this has in fact not helped sooth my anxiety the least, instead I just figure he's gotten so skilled att lying that that's why there hasn't been any TT. Not because there isn't any but because he's just sticking so well to his lies... I now almost count on the fact that he probably has had A:s earlier on or at least what I would deem as inappropriate relationships with other women. I can't say I've found any evidence of this other than the fact that I now know he is capable of it, it's just my gut instinct that if he could do this now, then why wouldn't he have earlier on as well? So I question everything. Our entire relationship, his entire person. I was so sure I knew him to the core after more than 20 years together. Now I trust nothing and it has truly broken me.
I think part of it is some warped safety thing. If I just figure he probably HAS had multiple A.s I just haven't found out about (yet) then if I get hit with that info at some point I will not be as crushed.
Same goes for believing he truly is NC and that we are not in false R. I have no signs or proof otherwise. I have full access to all his devices, I check periodically still. But I just don't trust it. So I almost just hang around waiting for evidence to show up either way. Either something will turn up that lets me know we are in false R/he has had multiple A:s over the years, or, over time, hopefully, if nothing does turn up, I will start to trust it. So far that feels impossible. So I treat him almost as if he is still cheating. I dont' let him or any happiness in. I've got one foot out the door constantly. I am so tired of feeling this way. Hell, we had so so many issues prior to DD, but this has broken me to the core.

Hoping we all get past this feeling with time.

This site is one of several allowing conversations between bs and ws. One of the most difficult to work around for strangers is how much we allow others to know us. They will know some if we are ws and some if we are bs but that is really very little.
What we bring to discuss focuses on pain. How deep it is, how long we carry it, and if we can find forgiveness and peace. Once I truly looked at my h I saw a man whose life was filled with unrecognized anxiety. I also see a strong need for attention and validation. So the question then becomes don’t we all need those. He is generous to a fault. Is that a bad thing? Sometimes, because he latches on to people with such strong loyalty that almost nothing shakes his faith in them. Yet he cheated. The more I have spent listening to him and his siblings the more I recognize there were too many of them with one mother and a father who worked all the time. Both parents kind people but stretched thin. My husband was never harmed but he missed nurturing. So what? Well that "what" is what made him vulnerable to cheating. He craved attention. Has it gone away? No, and I can see how much he needs me to appreciate him and often I forget to. So reading on here I see all kinds of ws but every bs reacts nearly the same. We have to overcome, somehow, that our ws have feet of clay. Often they are so messed up that R is not doable. Others, like my ws, are good people who did something that caused great pain but they feel regret and remorse.
Your ws has his own mess that he needs to fix. You can’t do it for him. You also have to look at how egregious his behavior was, and possibly is. Can you move on? Can you get yourself to a place where you are not riddled with anger, anxiety, terror? It all takes time. And you never go back to believing in fairy tales. Every person you know you will see differently. You have to let go of trying to control him. His behaviors belong to him. Your decisions should be based on what you can endure until you get to a place acceptance. Either with him or without.

I appreciate everyones responses.

Cooley you are correct, not much information is shared on my side or his side other than the basics.

My H has completely changed his ways since the final piece of the puzzle came out regarding his porn addiction and constant need for validation, much like your H he did not have a nurturing mother and his father was a porn addict as well as I am sure had affairs on his mom.

We are both trying to get to a point where we can heal ourselves and I know that I have to heal and he has to heal before we can ever R. With that being said it is really hard to do so with him in the home and around, like a lot of people say it is like living with your abuser. Some days I ask him to leave me alone or I leave to give myself space from him, other days we can be around each other and I am happy, those are the most dangerous days (seems like it is common for us BS). Being happy doesn't seem like a good idea to me yet, happy with my kids? Yes. Happy with my friends? Yes. Happy with him? Not yet, I am very honest with him in that sense, I am not ready to let myself be happy because I am still waiting for the other shoe to drop. Is he doing what he should have done all along now? Yes, I am still struggling with trying to figure out who the man I was with for the last 10 years was.

At the beginning we were both volatile, I mean just awful. I would make him cry at his new job during his first few months and he would hide in the corner running wire so no one would see him, he would take every lash, every word and I said every hurtful thing imaginable about him and his AP I could think of because I was upset, I was hurting and I am PROUD to say I still will communicate my feelings but in a MUCH healthier way, thanks to SI and to self reflection, and his work on showing me how remorseful he really was/is. He still cries, I still cry but we tend to cry together and we are calm and we can tell each other about our inner feelings, I know we will be in this lifeboat for a long time and it will be a long time before we see land. I am not so much worried about that. It is like you said accepting what I thought was , just never was and that I have what I need to move on. I feel like a part of me is still in the wreckage of the boat we once were on.

miserylikescompany

OH EM GEE.

This :

Either something will turn up that lets me know we are in false R/he has had multiple A:s over the years, or, over time, hopefully, if nothing does turn up, I will start to trust it. So far that feels impossible. So I treat him almost as if he is still cheating. I dont' let him or any happiness in. I've got one foot out the door constantly. I am so tired of feeling this way. Hell, we had so so many issues prior to DD, but this has broken me to the core.

I still catch myself doing this and I really think until we are healed and ready to handle anything, we will always do it.

I hate every bit of it.

emergent

thank you for reitirating this

I can tell you that a lot of my own work was getting to a point mentally where I knew that if the other shoe dropped and he cheated again (or there was a secret second family or something insane), I would be okay. I think a lot of people focus on trying to ensure that their spouse could never do that again -and I mean, yeah - that's useful. But it's not everything and its no way to live. No matter how vigilant you are, there are ways and so I needed to trust that if it happened again I would survive it. Like yes, obviously I would be devastated and furious, but I also know I would get through it and come out in tact. Once I felt secure in myself, my fear around the other stuff felt less intense.

This is my goal right now, I am working towards it but with that being said I feel like I have to detach from my H and that almost seems counterproductive, like in my mind I feel like I am trying to R and heal at the same time and it just doesn't work. I am realizing that now, I think with every day I am getting closer and closer to really starting to work on my own healing, I just am not there yet. I think I am afraid of the things I may have to face and unfortunately I have to do it alone and I don't do things very often alone.

saltishealing

I would say if you have any questions of other indiscretions go for the poly. I do think it was crucial for me, I would have never let the questioning go.

This is very much on the table and H has already agreed.

Leafields

The way I reframed it was - What are my memories of that time? Was I happy camping? Not always but enjoyed the company. Did I enjoy our first trip to Disney, going to the beach, etc? When I was happy, I was happy. When I was sad, I was sad. My feelings were authentic for the information I had at the time. If I were to learn of earlier APs, it wouldn't change my feelings about the past.

I am working on the same reframing and have been, thank you for this. I know I was present, I was happy, I know those feelings for ME were real.

[This message edited by Groot1988 at 3:56 PM, Thursday, July 18th]