SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Yep. If we didn’t have children, I think I would choose to never see him again.

Ignorance is bliss--that statement has always proven to be true for me.

^^^^ Yes on this!

I never look at their social media. It would kill me. I don't want to know anything about their relationship. However, things leak through. I heard they are like two peas in a pod. I like to think of this as true: to cheaters in a pod, two shallow people who are cowards and liars. They deserve each other. Fuck them.

I also know there's a baby, likely here by now. It rips me apart to think of all that has transpired after over two decades together in what I thought was an overall good relationship (one of those that people often commented on how good we were together ) and a happy one at that, even with the to-be-expected ups and downs. He was my best friend turned knife-wielding soul murderer, at least that's what this feels like. I never want to see him again.

Looking back, I now see many red flags that I didn't have the knowledge or understanding to pay attention to before.

The intrusive thoughts have gotten fewer and farther between. Distraction was (and is) key, as well as taking time to sit and be with all the messy feelings. There seems to be a balance in being present with all the muck as well as giving yourself a break from the memories and pain. Building a new life for yourself, bit by bit, enjoying friendships (and kids, pets, family), having a little fun now and then, being thankful for the simple things in life, all of this helps. Sorry if this is a repeat. My brain seems to have gone to mush as a result of all this shit.

What these people did was pure shit, but that shit has the potential to make some damn fine fertilizer. I say we grow our own kick-ass new lives, and they can go fuck off. I just wish it didn't take so long to get through this on every level. At least the worst part is over. I'd never want a repeat of d-day and the weeks and months that followed.

Nothing will take away what happened and the scar it leaves behind, although I'm starting to think that not only can we survive this, but we can come out more resilient than ever, and who knows what good things life has in store? Maybe the best is yet to come and we simply needed these assholes out of our lives in order to eventually grow and nurture a much better one.

[This message edited by burninghouse at 8:04 PM, August 13th (Tuesday)]

I was just wondering, for the BS whose WS has left you for the AP, how is your WS and AP relationship faring? Statistics states, those types of relationships don’t do well?

They recently got engaged. So that makes it 3 yrs for them now. Friends tell me that they are a bit stilted together. Guy is way too chummy and she feels awkward around him. But hey, still together and going strong so who really knows.

Tbh, the chances of "success" is more than people would like to admit. Leaving your spouse in such a manner, you're making a huge gamble and inviting the ire of your loved ones. So I imagine that the desire to make it work to prove others wrong is way more intense than in other normal couplings. To show that you made the right choice. Atleast that's how I would think if I found myself in this situation. Maybe when the relationship has been normalised, then they could leave.

I was just wondering, for the BS whose WS has left you for the AP, how is your WS and AP relationship faring? Statistics states, those types of relationships don’t do well?

In my case, XSO and her AP lasted about 2 - 3 months. XSO has since moved on too victim/BF number 3 since AP.

Word has filtered back to me that she is cheating on #3 with her former AP..... so who knows? Perhaps they should be together forever, at least that way they are not fucking up anyone else's life.

Lately I've been having crazy vivid dreams about EXWW. These dreams are all in the future, some we are together, some we are not.

There is no rhyme or reason but they feel so real I wake up with some crazy emotions some days, or want to go back to bed to try and understand where they're taking me.

It's been almost 3 years since she left for the POSOM, but these dreams seem to be coming nightly now and feel so real. Anyone else deal with this.

3 years is a lot of time. Have you dated around even a bit? I think replacing this one mess with another is a good way to get new scars and forget the old ones.

Funny story, I got to dating soon after filing the papers. Absolute trainwreck of a relationship. Girl was gorgeous but one of the most reserved and closed off person I've ever met. I couldn't figure out where we stood at all. So elusive. Ghosted me after 8 months where we spent almost every single night together. Like literally moved thousands of miles away without warning and stopped responding to my messages/calls. Messed me up but atleast I stopped thinking about my ex wife.

Moving on means opening up yourself to the possibility of new hurts. There are no guarantees in life man.

LostandFound, I have had many vivid dreams like the ones you describe. It's been about 1.5 years since WH left. I think it's part of the healing process.

Your subconscious mind is releasing deeper stuff that's coming out in the form of vivid dreams. When we're traumatized by the betrayal and abandonment, things get pushed way, way down. I've been learning a lot about trauma and how the body/mind complex deals with it. Insert nerd alert warning here

Intense dreams can be a sign of healing. I won't have any dreams like you describe for long periods, and then suddenly there are many. As you know they can be quite intense! Writing them down seems to help. I keep a dream journal.

The more intense and vivid the dreams, the more something inside is ready to come to the surface to be released, meaning releasing the emotions associated with the dream imagery.

Trauma like this can take many years to heal. Almost as if if you had a bullet wound and there's still some shrapnel stuck way down in there, like way down in the bone. Now it's finally worked its way out, and your body is now pushing it out to the surface. There could be more "shrapnel" still in there, but it will come up when it's ready. No forcing it, just helping things along I think can go a long way in healing. I hope this makes sense.

I like what you said about wanting to go back to bed to understand where the dreams are taking you. This struck me as helping process feelings and make meaning from the imagery.

Well more time has passed and everything is settling into a pattern. I am spending time with the kids four times a week which is the most important thing to me.

So after the discard, she still remains bright and cheery, with absolutely no sign at all of remorse, of insight. Still she flaunts her new relationship as if it is entirely normal and justifiable. I think though behind closed doors she must be waking up to the fact that she has just lost everything apart from the house and kids. The best advice I have received is removing myself as quickly as possible from her sick love triangle. The sick fat fuck that she is with is welcome to her.

My mind at times races towards the future, plans, excitement. Urge in me to date, to have one night stands, etc, but an urge well kept under control. Not healthy. I really do need to take time to heal.

And so then to the dissonance, the two sides of me. The first is the one above, the one who just wants to move on, the other is the ache and pain of losing so much, fighting feelings of still loving her deeply at times (strange how it comes and goes, other times I hate her) and seeing no future with her, mourning the loss of time spent with kids (hurting the most at the moment), terrified that I am 2 years of 40 and my life has been reset to a 21 year old.

So I have spent lots of time reading about narcissism and yeah, she ticks many of the boxes in general. She ticks ALL the boxes since Dday. And on one hand this makes me clear-seeing and glad to be rid, but on the other hand it makes me feel sorry for her, it makes me see her for what she is, deeply broken, empty, which doesn’t make me feel good. I guess I still care about her. There is a lot of unsubstantied junk out there on narcissism from what I can gather. The only book I have come across with will data and evidence is this one.

How To Spot A Narcissist, by Dr Calvin.

The guy is a leading expert on narcissism and bases nearly all his arguments on research.

I am slowly starting to realise that ALL of our happiness – mine, POSOM, hers and the kids – is dependant largely on each other. If we can somehow scrape through this and ALL wind up happy, then we will all be happy. Moving forward, if the misery continues, i.e. she has a nervous breakdown because she realises her POSOM is just an abusive womaniser, then how can that benefit the rest of us? That’s why I don’t get these salivating youtube videos about “revenge on the narcissist”, I don’t want revenge. I want the sad sack to be happy which will make my life easier. I am truly getting those who have been through this who say the best outcome is that they stay with the OP, meaning I guess they are well and truly off their hands. I don’t want revenge, I just want to be able to face the future without terrifying anxiety. I want peace of mind more than I want my marriage back. I would say there is about 20% of me now who would have her back.

I stay nocontact and grey rock, except kids and finances. I haven’t received a even mild “hoover” let alone remorse. So I plough on, detaching, moments and hours of aching sadness, but moments and hours of great hope and excitement.

I notice that if I book 6 months in advance I can get really cheap flights to the states. I have barely enough money to live on but I have a goal to book those cheap flights and do a road trip across American for a few weeks, particularly the southern states. A long dream of mine having loved American literature and bob Dylan since a kid. Who knows. There again the dissonance when I wrote this – on one hand excited and thrilled at the idea, and then I remember that I would likely be doing it alone, without her. Crazy that I still long for her at times, despite what the evil bitch has put me through.

Hope you’re all doing well. I haven’t read through the recent responses, but will do.

ah the dreams. so vivid and confusing and sad. gives insight into how deep the mind gets when it spends half the night churning up this stuff. i always thought dreams were just random nonsense, clearly not.

"Tbh, the chances of "success" is more than people would like to admit. Leaving your spouse in such a manner, you're making a huge gamble and inviting the ire of your loved ones. So I imagine that the desire to make it work to prove others wrong is way more intense than in other normal couplings. To show that you made the right choice. Atleast that's how I would think if I found myself in this situation. Maybe when the relationship has been normalised, then they could leave."

i suspect this too.

a lot of the projections about affair relationships are based on...what? what some therapist says? hardly conclusive. i suspect that they are a lot more successful at least up until the mid term than we like to believe. it's comforting to think they are doomed. but narcs are wily, if they want something to work they tend to get it to work if you catch my drift.

keep doing "Responses to The First Proper Hoover" in my mind.

hopefully it doesn't.

one of the great "parting shots" i have read at a narcissist, perhaps when the divorce papers are finally signed is: "you will look for me in everyone you meet, but you will never again find me." so true.

puffstuff,

I too had that feeling of "I feel bad for her" a few weeks after DDay. I assessed that to be my feelings of love toward her dissipating and, while on their way out, twisting from Love to Pity to Indifference. I wondered then what her love feelings turned into on the way out, if she ever truly "loved" me in the sense that most people mean it. You're doing all the right things, though. Keep your distance. Don't let her back in in any capacity except as the mother of your children and the bare minimum that that entails. Traveling is a great thing to do during this period as it takes your mind off of things, helps to build your self esteem, and gives you unique experiences to fill the void left by solitude. People usually recommend not dating, but IMO as long as you're not trying to jump into anything serious, cope as you see fit, just be careful. Being single sucks and eventually it doesn't suck so much, but it's never that great.

I continue living under the assumption that my ex's life is peachy. Otherwise, I might feel like I'm just lying to myself. Lying to yourself can be helpful in some cases, but I don't want it to be my status quo if I can help it. Sometimes these people go on to live fulfilling lives with the AP. It's a shitty thing, but really we should just use that fact to bolster ourselves into seeking our own form of fulfillment.

Good to hear from you puffstuff buddy. I was thinking about you over the weekend. I know how lonely it gets in the beginning. The humiliation and mental thoughts. You need to steadily kill every hope of getting back together. Maybe she's a narc. Maybe not. I'd bet on not. Just an adult making decisions for herself. You should do that as well. I'm sure we'd all have liked that their partner "hoovered" so it gives us proof of their brokenness, or,(most likely) show some kind of indication that we mattered to them. Because the simple answer is so hard to swallow. That they have moved on, are very happy, and never really cared much for you. Or the part that cared died a while back.

This wait for that Hollywood moment where the ex is sitting on our doorstep asking for another chance/forgivenes, it just never happens man. Even if they felt guilt-which I don't think they do-it takes a big person to bare your soul to someone else. And I just don't think that they possess that kind of depth. Hell I'd never do it if I cheated.

You're in UK right? Maybe start the divorce rolling. Isn't that a long and shitty process over there? We are usually coupled with people who are like ourselves. This fat, uncouth, racist philanderer is who she feels she wants? Good for her. You do your own thing.

Good to hear how you are feeling puffstuff. I’m so similar. Still no contact except kids and money and still no change from ex. I’m definitely feeling slightly more in control of my life and I’m probably about 20% still mourning . Sounds like you are doing well.

I was just wondering, for the BS whose WS has left you for the AP, how is your WS and AP relationship faring? Statistics states, those types of relationships don’t do well?

Ex walked out on the kids and me 10 years ago. He and Maleficent are still together. It took them several years to actually get married though, and when he got around to telling the kids, ex said it was because she nagged him into it.

I do know they spend money on expensive toys (motorcycles) and go on vacations a lot more than I do. So it might appear on the surface things are good. But from what little I've heard, (my kids are adults now so I've been NC for years) it doesn't sound like it's a very happy relationship. Maleficent is insecure. Ex goes off on the weekends a lot to do his hobby, without her. Both my kids have said, without using those exact words, that their dad is pretty much a passive-aggressive asshole. And they've never liked Maleficent. Hell, her own kids apparently don't like her much, either.

So basically, I think there's 2 unhappy people together in a marriage that has no trust in it. Which is exactly what they both deserve.

It's funny. I've gone almost several months now feeling indifferent towards her. Any shitty feelings have stemmed from recouping my lost confidence and the loneliness of solitude. But today, for the first time in forever, I was reminded of something nice that we shared. Something that we'd both probably joke about. And here I am, hours later, angry again. Angry that she got off scot free. Angry that she threw our marriage away like it all meant jack shit. Discouraged with myself at the fact that even if I could wish terrible things on her, I still wouldn't because I'm not a sadistic bastard like she is. She got to ease into a new easy life and I had to work hard to get to where I'm at today except she fucks and relies on AP and I'm too jaded to even consider even a shallow relationship with a "you'll do" type.

She's lucky I only took from our shared assets what I did. She's lucky she's a petite blonde skank with zero scruples. She's lucky that some old asshole was there to lap up her horseshit when she needed him. She's also lucky I'm not a few notches crazier and more vindictive. She got to piss all over my life and walk away without a scratch. She's also lucky that true karma, the type she really deserves, doesn't exist. No, she'll be just fine.

This doesn't change my opinion that her selfish sluttery and epic revelation of blatant narcissism were blessings in disguise that came with many silver linings and a second shot at happiness, but at this moment, it stings a little.

well there's a perfect expression of how i see her in my more angry moments Abandoned Guy - exactly the same structure of thoughts and feeling. it sounds like you saw the mask fall away, like me. i think about karma alot and I have various forms i would like it to take - that she has about 4 months of mental agony and terrifying confusion when she realises that she's such a disordered freak. and then she seeks help and walks happily into the sunset with a good man and everyone lives happily ever after. that would be my perfect set up of karma, especially when i know my kids are around her so much. but yeah a substantial but limited period of mental break down (that does not adversely affect the kids) would be nice

i had a dream two nights ago where she was the opposite of what she is now. if insta or whatever had a "loving" filter it was like the images of her in the dream had been run through it. she was kind and everything about her seemed warm, generous and loving and she was saying "i am so sorry" and i was just kind of staring at her. heartbreaking. i woke up and then sat on the bed and vaped like a small factory. awful.

you said something a while ago, among other things that has really helped me, "they dont give a shit about us". it stuck with me, somethign to do with bluntness and how i was feeling at the time. someone else described it in another way that grabbed me: "don't think she hasn't already chosen. she's chosen, and it aint you." both very powerful message that would have had me screaming with confusion and pain at around day 3 post d day lol but now is internalised as profoundly healing. so if THEY dont and maybe never did give a shit about us, the mental impressions still and attachments in my mind are weakened so much because i know that there's nothing really reciprocal about what is left of the ruins of my marriage. She doesnt give a shit about me. not in any deep, meaningful connected way. not in the way that i did and do sometimes feel about her. so why waste the mental energy on someone who has moved on? liberating as i say when getting ones head around it.

this sub thread feels like a train station at night when all the trains have gone and everyone else has gone home to towns like "Pick Me Dance" and "Rug Sweeping" and "Reconciliation" and all that shit

more later.

the self esteem definitely takes a hit. weird anxities and fears that i had got a handle on have suddenly resurfaced. when i talk to people face to face i feel a bit broken. not as shattered as i was that first week, but weird and broken and twitchy all the same. i am sure this will pass. no wonder i feel fragile and insecure, my wife of 9 years has just thrown me under a bus.

the compulsively being drawn to women is annoying me as well. i am avoiding porn, far too addictive and warping imo. i want to become the single man i always wanted to be - strong, career minded, enjoying life to the max, healthy and athletic, having plans, etc - why my eye is wandering so much i don't know, i guess its that need to have something external fix me. a beauty sat next to me on the bus today and was tossing her hair around and brushing her arm against mine and i felt like every hormone was on fire and i was going to scream with neediness i guess that side of me is awakening.our sex life came and went in our marriage, and of course it was absent after she had checked out mentally and emotionally so i feel a bit like a dog on heat.

another thing i am finding really helpful in getting htrough this is going from point A to B during the day such as a commute or a walk to the shop with NO human input - no music, no podcasts, no chats on the phone. nothing but my own thoughts. there is a lot of research about this - how social media has taken away the times like moving from point A to B, commuting, etc, when we are just alone wtih nothing but our thoughts with zero distractions. i sit on a bus for two hours a day so i put the phone away and just look out the window. i'm amazed at my thinking during this time, it just takes over and i end up processing so much stuff. normally i would spend that listening, reading, on my phone etc (avoiding). check the work of Cal Newport. having no input from anything has been proven to improve emotional and mental processing. i realised that i had spent so little of the last twenty years without my headphones in whilst travelling for example. try it. works for me. doesnt mean you ditch it all, just have breaks in the day when the brain is not processing external human data. you will find that your mind fills up wiht your own worries, goals, etc and you might find yourself sifting through it all a lot easier than if you had if ACDC was blaring in your ears at the same time! as say enjoying this technique very much.

if THEY dont and maybe never did give a shit about us, the mental impressions still and attachments in my mind are weakened so much because i know that there's nothing really reciprocal about what is left of the ruins of my marriage. She doesnt give a shit about me. not in any deep, meaningful connected way. not in the way that i did and do sometimes feel about her.

This really is the crux of the matter for people in our group. Probably the toughest pill to swallow and our ego wants to reject it so much but, when you finally accept this, it is-as you say-very liberating. The time wasted on these people is something I do remain really bitter about and nothing other than a time machine can solve that problem. So have to let it go. I wouldn't have gone on a second date with her let alone marrying her if I knew that she was this kind of person.

hi rusty, thanks for thinking of me!

divorce is not too bad here, quite straightforward - you can do it all online. it's straightforward if you can do it amicably between each other and just write it all into the divorce. the only headache i have is a) saving up to afford one session with a lawyer and b) working out how to protect my asset in the house (I am still paying the mortgage, but wont post divorce).

excellent point about the second date. so true. i can remember saying to her "i don't know who you are, you are certainly not the woman i married." but it probably WAS the woman i married, it was just hidden beneath many layers of sparkle and bullshit.