SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Gmc,

I can absolutely understand a BS wanting full custody - the injustice of an A and the continued deceit is a real mindf*ck, and the idea that the BS has to lose time with their kids bs the WS had an A is adding injury to an already insulting injury. However, the BS' needs, no matter how worthy, should be SECONDARY to the very real and very worthy needs of the kids.

I don't want to cause any more pain to BH by taking our kids away. But I'd never take them away either. BH is a very amazing father and I don't think he'd punish the kids by keep me away.

BH has never given me a reason not to trust him.

Chamomile,

What exactly are you feelings toward BJ's? And have your feeling been respected for the duration of the marriage? Are they being respected now? Or have you been in any way coerced to go outside your comfort zone?

My feelings about blowjobs came from my first boyfriend, I was 18 then... He would get mad and yell at me if I didn't want to give him one. So because I hate anger/conflict I would give him BJs. I never gave highschool BF bj to completion and he would tell me I was bad at giving BJs. And he made me feel terrible about myself.

I gave OM one bj without him asking. The night I have OM the bj I was at his house with a friend of mine, I'll call her L. I met BH through L, and L gave BH a bj the first night they met. And in his words "the best blow job of his life" that happened before I had met BH. But L always told me that I'd never be as good as her and that as long as I'm bad a bj's I'll never keep a man. The night I gave OM a bj I was buzed and was being made fun of by L. That is no excuse for my betraying BH, I shouldn't have been there in the first place. The bj I gave OM wasn't to completion and I did feel gross for doing it.

And honestly when I did start to give BH bjs I really enjoyed it because I saw his enjoyment. He never once expected me to do it and when I did started I felt good because he never told me I was bad. He just enjoyed it he enjoyed me.

What was the timing of the BJ? Before or after you became serious with your H?

Reality,

He might be haunted with thoughts that he is a concession. That he’s plan-B and probably wonders if, when you two are intimate, if you’re pretending he’s the other guy.

Yes this exactly. He feels robbed of being my number one in the beginning and when I had an EA.

I understand that I did make him second twice and I lied to cover myself. I'm going to IC to seek help with my why's and the lies.

Personal History:

Lies are something I was taught to do by my mother. She always told me to lie to my father, because if I told the truth my dad would keep me away from my mother. My parents were divorced when I was two and my mother in all honesty was not a safe person for me. I no longer speak to my mother.

Land,

What was the timing of the BJ? Before or after you became serious with your H?

It was before BH and I had became an official couple but we were suppose to be sexually exclusive. I had been dating BH for 3 months when I gave OM the bj. And I did lie about my actions.

[This message edited by 15yrsinthemaking at 10:49 PM, April 24th (Saturday)]

I’m really struggling with how he gets to hold that over you then. It happened before you were a couple. He was ok with the sex that actually happened after you were serious, but a BJ before is somehow this huge dealbreaker?

He really needs to go to IC to be honest. You both do. He seems to have unresolved issues from before the marriage, and you’re acting in unhealthy ways out of guilt.

I would strongly suggest that you not make any further promises about custody, etc., until you’ve both been to IC and if necessary, talked to your own lawyers.

BH has never given me a reason not to trust him.

Until now. My fWH never gave me any reason not to trust him either. Until he did.

I think you have to ask yourself what YOU think about this proposed deal. I understand you got desperate and lobbed it out there in an effort to try to repair the relationship. But now that you've had time to understand what relinquishing custody of your children really means, I think you need to walk that offer back. If he accuses you of more wayward thinking, that's too bad, but him believing it doesn't make it true. You're in a forum with both BS's and WS's telling you that it's WRONG for him to ask this much of you.

So let's think this through for a minute. What would you tell a friend or a sister who found herself in the same situation? How about if it was one of your kids when they're grown? Let's put the shoe on the other foot. Let's say it's a man, let's say it's your WH... and he did the same things you did with an old girlfriend before marriage. Does he deserve to lose his family dynamic? custody of his children? everything except basically the clothes on his back? I think if you really sit down and apply your imagination to people you care about, you'll feel some empathy as you imagine each one of those people in your position... and MAYBE you could apply some of that same empathy toward yourself, right? You didn't do anything which deserves this kind of overkill. Believe me. I would tell you if you did. Landclark would tell you if you did. But because your husband thinks otherwise, you'd be making a mistake to trust him just now.

You are guilty of a single lie, one that admittedly, you've failed for many years to correct. But now you HAVE corrected it. You've spent nine years proving that you are NOT that person anymore, and you need to follow through with enough spine to stand up for the love and fidelity you've shown in those nine years. Don't be afraid of conflict. Conflict is OPPORTUNITY. It's opportunity to set the record straight, to settle disagreements, and to stand up for what you believe. You can do this. Walk your offer back and suggest traditional counseling. You have nothing to lose which is not currently lost, which means... you have everything to gain by negotiating.

Personal History:

Lies are something I was taught to do by my mother. She always told me to lie to my father, because if I told the truth my dad would keep me away from my mother. My parents were divorced when I was two and my mother in all honesty was not a safe person for me. I no longer speak to my mother.

Do you not have a maternal influence to talk to about all this stuff??

Land,

I’m really struggling with how he gets to hold that over you then. It happened before you were a couple. He was ok with the sex that actually happened after you were serious, but a BJ before is somehow this huge dealbreaker?

I feel it's more of the fact I lied about it. And yes I lied. And because of my lies he doesn't trust me.

When I told him about the BJ last week he said I killed all love he had for me. But then he has gone on to say that we may have a future but for us to have a future he wants a D then see me change and he'll try to date me down the road. I think he wants to know that I'll choose him even when I don't have to....but because we are married I think he feels I'm with him out of convince and safety and obligation.

Chamomile,

Do you not have a maternal influence to talk to about all this stuff??

No, I have my older sister that's the closest I have. My mother has been out of my life permanently for 7 yrs and before that she was in and out of my life at her convenience. She is a drug addict. I haven't seen her regularly since I was maybe 12, I'm 36 now. And my dad never had a steady GF until I was in highschool but they are divorced now. So in short Nope no mom or mom figure to reach out too.

My feelings about blowjobs came from my first boyfriend, I was 18 then... He would get mad and yell at me if I didn't want to give him one. So because I hate anger/conflict I would give him BJs. I never gave highschool BF bj to completion and he would tell me I was bad at giving BJs. And he made me feel terrible about myself.

I gave OM one bj without him asking. The night I have OM the bj I was at his house with a friend of mine, I'll call her L. I met BH through L, and L gave BH a bj the first night they met. And in his words "the best blow job of his life" that happened before I had met BH. But L always told me that I'd never be as good as her and that as long as I'm bad a bj's I'll never keep a man. The night I gave OM a bj I was buzed and was being made fun of by L. That is no excuse for my betraying BH, I shouldn't have been there in the first place. The bj I gave OM wasn't to completion and I did feel gross for doing it.

Your feelings as a very young woman were completely understandable. Your BF was pressuring you into doing something you weren't comfortable with. Your friend was criticizing and shaming you to make HERSELF feel better. As you read through those two paragraphs above, do you see the immaturity of the prefrontal cortex in play? That's youth and what looks like a pretty serious lack of guidance in your life. My own daughter NEVER put up with boyfriends pressuring her, because I talked with her about sex on a damned near weekly basis throughout her teen years. My own mother had failed me in that respect, and like many girls with divorced parents, I was that walking cliche out looking for love. So, I passed on something BETTER to my daughter. You need to be there for yours too when the time comes, or for sons, because believe me, I have raised a sexually respectful one of those as well.

As a thought exercise, do you think you can find it within yourself to look inside for that young girl and give her the compassion and love of a mother now? Can you look at her actions and her motivations through the eyes of someone who cares deeply for her and wants to help her?

No, I have my older sister that's the closest I have. My mother has been out of my life permanently for 7 yrs and before that she was in and out of my life at her convenience. She is a drug addict. I haven't seen her regularly since I was maybe 12, I'm 36 now. And my dad never had a steady GF until I was in highschool but they are divorced now. So in short Nope no mom or mom figure to reach out too.

(((15yrsinthemaking)))

That's a big mommy hug from a woman who is certainly old enough to be your mother. And who is telling you that you are okay and that you are enough.

Allow the mom you are for your own babies to see and minister to the little girl trapped inside you. I'd like to recommend a book to you called The Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson. It's geared more toward couples who have broken up, but I think it would be of real value to you to see how the damage from early abandonment wounds can have such a profound influence on your life. Please tell me you'll try to read it.

Chamomile,

Yes, I will read anything that may help. I want to be stronger for myself my children and my BH.

I know I have a lot of work to do on myself and the more feedback I get here the more I see that.

I'm more confused than ever. I fully expected to get run through the mud and hit by those 2x4s. The support I've received has been mind blowing.

I appreciate everything, the tears I've cried are not the same I've had over the past week.

My BH is an amazing man that I betrayed. I know I need to fix myself. But while I'm working on myself is there a way I can also work on my marriage. I want continue to fight for my family and BH, they are my world. I truly can't and do not want to think about my life without us as a family.

BS here.

My knee jerk instinct and first thought is that he is secretly cheating on you and is using your history as a reason, which is why his reaction seems so dramatic. Could this be possible? Could he be rewriting your history to excuse his own affair? People are sick fucks. And this includes all people, including BS.

My follow up thought to this is that you have poor impulse control (giving up custody of your kids), and this concerns me that something is wrong. Maybe you’re an abuse victim? Maybe you have ADHD? Maybe both. But you need a good therapist. Figure that shit out.

Something smells funny and is illogical with your BS’s behavior. It’s making my red flags wave like crazy. What’s he doing? I think you should go into investigation mode. This is just not “normal” BS behavior. It’s off.

Your responses also seem kind of splitting to me, like your BS is the best person ever. No one is the best person ever. We all have dumb fuckery days, even me, and I’m perfect. 🙄 Just ask my WH. I’m perfect.

I just want to clarify- so you’re saying he’s upset over you not telling him that you gave a dude a BJ before you were married? If that’s the case, that’s odd.

From what I know of most men that aren’t douchebags, when they get oral, they stop asking questions about details. For example, if I started giving oral after my husband having none for a long time, the last thing he would ask is why. Because, oral. Also, I’ve noticed that when women are good at this, men don’t question how they got good (practice). It’s like eating hot dogs. You don’t ask how they’re made. (Tee hee, forgive the hot dog analogy).

So- to make sure I have this straight- you and your spouse got together, he thought you were exclusive and you were not. You did the other dude a lot, some oral was in there. Then you stopped and came clean, and you got married. Several years later, you made up some romantic shit with a dude you used to know. But nothing physical happened.

That sounds very immature on your part. And is in keeping with the poor impulse control with the kids and custody, etc. and the frenetic pace with which you insist you need to fix this. I think you would benefit from some therapy to look at those things, because your account makes me want to take a deep breath. The pace is very frantic.

You know, you don’t have to remain married to this guy. He kind of sounds douchy.

Has he EVER hit you? Direct question, please answer directly.

[This message edited by 3yrsout at 5:35 AM, April 25th (Sunday)]

Land,

I’m really struggling with how he gets to hold that over you then. It happened before you were a couple. He was ok with the sex that actually happened after you were serious, but a BJ before is somehow this huge dealbreaker?

BS didn't know the full truth.

No stop sign so here it goes: Listen you should not give him full custody of your kids period ! and no that's not WW thinking, that's thinking as a MOTHER.

You claim you "think" he won't keep you away from your children and that may be true, but the key word is "may", what if he changes his mind later ?, what if he meets someone else? or decides he wants to move to a different city/state/country ? IMHO you simply should not give away the rights to your kids, even if that means he won't take you back, if he doesn't so be it.

If he really loves you he should not hold you hostage on this, pretty much anything else is fair game (houses, cars, money), but not the kids, offer him joint custody and keep your "word" on everything else.

3yrs,

You have my BH all wrong. He has never lied to be and he isn't cheating on me. I'm the one who betrayed him. I cheated and lied about my actions. My BS doesn't deserve to be called any names.

I'm the one who lied about my actions and the extent of my feelings and AP.

I rug swept the situation and TT my BS. So if anyone deserves to be called names it's me. I'll defend my BH until the day the day I die.

You are victim blaming my BS and it's not appreciate nor does it help situation. So I'd appreciate it if you'd get bent.

[This message edited by 15yrsinthemaking at 6:22 AM, April 25th (Sunday)]

Part of the problem is that you don’t know this “trauma” response version of your husband. People can sometimes be unpredictable after DDAY and act in ways they wouldn’t normally act. Also you don’t know what this other person is whispering in his ear. They could very well be convincing him that divorcing you and running off with the kids is the right thing to do, and if he’s vulnerable and open to suggestion, that is what he very well may do. That is reality.

So you may think he would never take your kids away, but why be willing to take the chance? There’s more of a chance than you’re allowing yourself to believe. A good IC would tell you hell no, don’t sign over custody. So would a good lawyer.

The truth is, he really doesn’t have much ground to stand on by being mad about something that happened before you were even a couple. I get that you didn’t tell him about it, even after years of him badgering you, but I really don’t think you owe anybody a complete rundown of your past sexual history. I’m 100% certain my WH gave somebody oral before we were officially together (after we started hanging out). He absolutely lied to me about it, and I didn’t find out until after DDAY. I was initially very upset. Then I realized it was before us as a couple, and what happened after that is way more important. It certainly is in no way grounds to ask him to sign over full custody, or him calling himself a piece of shit, etc.

[This message edited by landclark at 6:58 AM, April 25th (Sunday)]