SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sisoon:

Good post.

One thing about the Hard 180 I want to point out.

Point #(19) -- "All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until the cheating spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite awhile). Initiate no such conversation".

I do not see where that limits conversation. If his wife isn't willing to talk about the affair and their future, then he following her around trying to talk to her is futile... a waste of breath.

On the other hand, if she wishes to begin such a conversation then by all means open up all lines of communication.

I do not see anywhere in the 33 points of the 180 anywhere communication is stifled.

Thanks "The1stWife" for your warning about impending manipulation, yep it came on Saturday.

WS was in a bad mood and accused me of falling back into my old ways, well sorry but perhaps I am a little distracted dealing with the worst pain I have ever felt because of your actions.

I literally had to walk away.

When we had both calmed down I told her that she was being unfair and I would not accept her behaviour. She looked shocked at my comments and immediately apologised.

So she has now learned 2 more things about my state of mind, I am willing to walk away when she wants to argue, and I will defend myself in a calm and rational manner.

Also the old me would have bought her flowers to help make up for our disagreement, but I did not buy her any and she certainly noticed.

Sorry for your pain. You are doing great with 180.

Is she in NC with this guy? The way she is acting after getting caught doesn't make it seem like that affair is over. I feel like she might have taken her affair underground.

I believe she is still messaging him at present. I know she has not seen him this week because there were no gaps in her timeline.

She is very grumpy at the moment and her guilt is clearly visible in her eyes, although she has not yet committed to the M.

I am 2 weeks into my meds and feeling calmer, but not sure whether that is just the meds or the initial Dday shock wearing off a little.

If she's still in contact with this guy then the affair is ongoing. If her affair is ongoing then she won't come out of this fog. She will only string you along.

I am so thankful to this website especially the Tactical Primer and the 180, it is quite astonishing how accurate that information is and has been very helpful to me in the short period post Dday. If any newbies read this post and have not read either of those articles yet I strongly urge you to do so immediately, even if you are not ready to start the 180 yet.

This morning my WS initiated a conversation about the marriage which is the first time she has done so as every other conversation had been initiated by myself, but I have stopped doing so (180). She also admitted that she is flip-flopping about her decision and cannot make her mind up (tactical primer).

I expressed my pain and hurt at her actions (180) and for the first time she got upset because of the pain her actions have caused me.

Anyway we sat and had an honest discussion about the future of our M and although no decision has been reached it was clear that the things I was saying were sinking in. She also said that she had noticed a change in my attitude post Dday (180) and this was adding to her thinking.

So who knows whether this will lead to R or D, but at the moment we are still communicating and there is still hope (180)

It's good to know that this website has been helpful to you. 180 is also useful to create your own space to figure out what you want and why and how you want it. What you are willing to sacrifice and tolerate and what you won't. What this new marriage should look like
. Etc.. So, are you figuring out answers to these questions??

Also, I will say this again, as long as she is in contact with her AP there is no hope for R. Have you recommended some books to her? Is she attending IC?

I am encouraged to see that the 180 is working for you. Not only does it protect you from the cheater and their crap but it gives less power to the cheater.

Your walking away AND no flowers had a huge impact. Trust me - the cheater won’t admit it but it has now changed the dynamics of your relationship/marriage.

She’s starting to get the idea she’s no longer in control.

If you suspect she’s still in contact with the OM then you need to institute the HARD 180. I did the hard 180 on dday2 after I found out the affair had re-started and we were in false R.

My hard 180 was brutal. But I had no choice. I stopped doing anything for my H. I didn’t cook his meals or do his laundry or do any favors for him. I didn’t speak to him unless I had to. I didn’t eat dinner with him unless the kids were home.

I was polite but distant in certain situations.

Game changer. He no longer calls the shots and gets his own way. He’s no longer number 1. I am.

Thanks both for your comments.
Lurkingsoul12 - I am still working on what the new M should look like, we are both clear that the old marriage is over and that if we R the new M will need to be different, we have at least been able to discuss what that would look like.
I know she is still in contact with AP and she knows that this has to be NC before I will progress to R

the 1stWife - I agree the dynamics do feel different and I think she has realised that, possibly without really understanding what has changed or why. As I said this morning she initiated discussion for the first time and commented that I had stopped bringing it up.
I am thinking about Hard 180, but do not yet feel it is the right approach at this moment for myself.

I'm an old timer and I don't post often because others have MUCH better advice than me.

But one important thing I think I can offer that I don't see many people say here is

DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE OF ATTRIBUTING GUILT "in their eyes" - this is how YOU would feel in their shoes. This is how a normal, empathetic human would behave. Not a cake eating cheater. They are selfish. That's not necessarily guilt.

Guilt will be evidenced by actions. Steps to make amends. Not some gleam you think you perceived.

My ex literally stepped over my body as I cried on the kitchen floor and I thought "he can't comfort me because he feels too guilty."

WRONG.

He did not fucking care.

I found out 10 years later. He never even stopped the affair. And we limped along (for the children) until he finally grew a pair and moved out.

Please accept ACTIONS and true explicit expressions of guilt only. Do not project how YOU would feel. YOU wouldn't have had the affair. You wouldn't be dithering over the decision to stay married.

This is not guilt. It's cake eating and it's the worst kind of abuse.

Hugs.

If she is still in contact with AP then there is no point in having any kind of conversations with her. Conversations related to kids, finances and basic necessities are fine but anything beyond that is pointless. It serves no purpose. It's like talking to a wall. It may make you feel better but serves no other purpose.

I am glad to see that you are using the 180 correctly. It is not to manipulate her or anything like that... it is for your benefit.

As I have stated in past conversations, the person who holds the least investment in a relationship holds the most power. The 180 shows that you are willing to get on with your life, with or without her. She is beginning to sense that now and she is paying attention to your every move whether you realize it or not.

You are the Prize!!!

Repeat to yourself the following each morning when you awaken and before you go to sleep... "I am the Prize. She is lucky to have me. If she should leave, then it is Her Loss - Not Mine". Do this until you actually believe it, because, even if it doesn't seem this way now, it is the truth.

Keep it up. You are doing good.

[This message edited by lrpprl at 7:00 PM, Thursday, May 4th]

You are a star. Take it a step further and really truly look for the kind of life you want, and reflect on the kind of partnership you want. My take is that you are leaps and bounds beyond your wife in emotional maturity. The 180 is also about getting the distance to see what you want. It's not just about getting a reaction from your partner, which you are certainly getting, and I'm sure it feels good.

We all have to be honest about our on behaviors but if you know you have been a pretty good husband then stop making deals. I never had to because my husband cheated while traveling and when I was told I had no way to support my young children and myself but once I got a job I confronted him and he admitted it. It was in the past, we both grew up, and life went on.
Your story is nothing like mine except in one very important way. We both got cheated on. I enjoy sex with my husband, have never said no, and he was wrong to cheat on me. You wife was wrong to cheat on you.
If she is still playing mind games with you, opt out. There is no reason for you to be obliging to her. None. Your focus should be on your life, your pleasures, your future. Anyone who wants to enjoy the ride should get on the train ASAP. No excuses. No wiggle room. Now or never.

Do you know why his wife kicked him out? Might be a good idea to sepak to her on what the issues were in their marriage. Might give you some insight into your own decision making.

Had a setback this evening, things had been going well with the 180, but my WS said something and before I could catch myself I had tears rolling down my face.

She noticed and hugged me, but I am so frustrated in myself that I let her see me like that, that again I let her see how weak and vulnerable I am at the moment. I even told her how scared I was of losing her.

What a mess

Tomorrow is another day and I am going to be stronger.

[This message edited by Iamenough666 at 11:53 PM, Friday, May 12th]

This is not a setback. Yes, you are weak and vulnerable, not because of your inherent inadequacies or insecurities but because of damage she caused in you. Let her see that through her own eyes. If she can't develop empathy for you after seeing you like this then the hopes of her achieving true remorse and becoming safer partner for you is thinner. You continue with 180. Work on yourself to minimize the damage she caused in you. Only you can heal yourself.

A new day but I am not feeling stronger.

I seemed to have gotten over the initial dday shock but this morning it feels like being back to day 1.

Feeling sick to the stomach and very tearful, brain not functioning correctly and just putting one step in front of the other to get through the day.

I guess this is normal but it feels horrible, and the icing on the cake is that this morning her eyesight is really poor, she is having medical issues with her eyes at present and can hardly see, so I am having to care for her and do everything for her just when I am really low.

You are a very good man to care for her when she has hurt you terribly. Much better man than a low-life, scumbag man who would have an affair with a married woman. If she doesn't sense that down into her deeper soul, then there is not much hope for her.

Remember that I told you that you are the Prize. This proves it.

Just keep reading the 33 points of the 180. I know Point #18 about "No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your cheating spouse happiness and contentment. Make yourself someone they want to be around" is very difficult and probably the most difficult point of the 180. You will have setbacks. You are only human and she has put you on a roller coaster of human emotions.

You are the Prize!!!

Thanks lrpprl for your kind words.
It is ironic that the AP is put on a pedestal but it is the BS who has to deal with the day to day stuff.
In my case that means being her reading eyes, telling her what temperature she has the oven on, or what the label on a jar says, or reading the captions on TV, or the hundred other occasions during the day.
To say nothing of being there when her frustration spills out because she cannot see very well at the moment, and that is driving her crazy.
Yes I would just love to see the AP dealing with all that, but of course they do not have too because their world is the world of fantasies.