SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have things saved. Nothing horrible, but not appropriate. She would've flipped had I done the same. Journal told me some things, but not a whole lot more. She can't see him as often because I'm home a few days a week and we have a driving tracking app.

Don’t believe ANYTHING she says. My WW told me nothing physical ever happened. She lied and is just a garden variety adulteress. I would have saved myself a lot of pain if I didn’t believe her on Dday. The PA hurt as much as EA so, the pain for me, was because of the continued lying. I lost all trust when she looked me in the eye in ‘radical honesty’ during MC and promised nothing physical happened. It was starting to come back after half a year and then she lied about her whereabouts. I’m not even sort of working on getting trust back anymore.

You didn’t deserve any of this. Your porno abuse may have warranted a divorce, but not cheating.

You're stuck. You're going to be desperately unhappy while waiting around for her to "wake up." Get yourself out of infidelity by following the very good advice you've already been given. Tell the other betrayed spouse, and file for divorce. Filing for divorce doesn't mean there WILL BE a divorce, but it does show your wife you are serious and won't be disrespected any more. You deserve peace, love and joy. Make today the first step to finding it.

Fsk

It does seem like you are doing the same "mistakes" we see so often here on SI:
You are collecting "proof" to convince her and anyone else that she is cheating. As if it isn’t infidelity to her unless you can prove to her that she is having an emotional affair with him.
The only proof you need is that YOU are convinced that YOU think the relationship with him crosses a border.

Well… with one caveat… You can do a quick five-minute search online to see if infidelity impacts divorce in any way or form in your state. Chances are that it doesn’t in any significant or realistic way. But if it does then I can promise you that screenshots and innuendo won’t cut it. If it does impact D then stop reading this site and contact a PI to get the legal, court-accepted-level proof you need.
But… I am 99% certain adultery doesn’t impact the filing, the speed or the financial eventuality of divorce.

The second mistake is thinking that in a short period (anything less than 1-2 years) you can line your finances up to your advantage in a divorce…
It’s only in movies where your attorney proves your wife is at fault and ensures you get the cars, the house and all the savings. In reality your attorney, her attorney, or the mediator, the judge… everyone involved… are handling 2-3 cases per day or more, and they KNOW how it goes. Chances are that even if you manage to withdraw and hide 20k then in disclosure that transaction is found and accounted for in the division of assets.
Not saying you can’t do anything – but its more like a clean-up or data gathering that helps you make sure the process is fair.

Another mistake is that you pretend to be doing something by doing nothing…

IMHO there tends to be a reason for these mistakes – and they are common!
The reason is fear.

Fact is – you are dealing with what you are dealing with.
Reality is reality.

At the moment she’s having some form of inappropriate relationship outside the marriage.
Now – I am NOT going to state she’s having a full-blown physical affair with him. If he has a past of cheating he might be the typical "fisherman" who constantly is scanning the water and is simply playing with the trout. It is still totally possible that your wife hasn’t gone the whole way. But this is definitely an emotional affair. Maybe even that might turn out to be a one-sided EA, with the OM not realizing that he’s been involved because this action is so "normal" to him.

But… there is no benefit whatsoever for you, for your wife or for your marriage and family to allow this to carry on.

I’m going to suggest the only path I can see that will help you:

CONFRONT
Refuse to accept this behavior.

You mention MC. At the next MC session simply state – NOT ASK – that she’s having an emotional affair with this man. Don’t argue about it – simply state it.
The MC should be able to help you two deal with an EA, or maybe your wife simply states that she wants out or that she wants to keep this guy in her life.
You issue a statement along these lines:
"Wife – I know we are having issues and that’s why we are here in MC. I am willing to do serious weight-lifting to improve our marriage but the reality is that NOTHING I do or try to do will have ANY effect while you are committed to another relationship.
I do not share my wife.
I am accepting your decision to keep him in your life. That is something you are totally free to do. You can let him drive his balls down your freeway BUT NOT AS MY WIFE.
I am therefore absolving you and myself of marital obligations, and am starting the process of emotionally detaching and – eventually – the formal process of terminating our marriage.
There is no rush per se. The process is emotionally hard for us all and takes the inevitable time. We should both get treated fairly by the law. But I am setting off on that path while I experience that at best I am sharing you.

If you want this marriage then I reiterate that I am willing to do A LOT. But I won’t share you. I wont stop my course unless you clearly both tell me and show me that you want this marriage. It will require changes and accountability, but the further I go along my path the more content with my decision I will be"

And then you leave. Make a sandwich or whatever. Just don’t engage her in argument or discussion. All you need from her is either silence – and that means I have chosen Mr. Putter over you – or that she states she wants the marriage.

Once this is over, you contact his wife. No – no anonymous note or some hide-in-the-dark trickery.
"Mrs. Putter? My name is Fsk and I hate to have to tell you but I think there is some inappropriate interaction between your husband and my wife. No – I can’t prove direct sexual contact, but there is an inappropriate amount of texting and messaging and some contains dubious content with sexual inuendo. I feel it is right that you know about this."

To stakeholders in the marriage "We are headed for divorce because my wife chose her relationship with Mr. Putter over me, our marriage and family. I hope you can have some positive impact on her to do right, but I refuse to share her with someone else"

That’s it. You confront and you start the inevitable fight.
If that fight leads to reconciliation… great.
If it leads to divorce… great.

BOTH get you out of infidelity.

And fsk…

IF your marriage survives…
I took up golf because my wife insisted. She wanted us to do something together. Now – a couple of years later – she plays maybe 2-3 times with her friends for each time she asks me to the course.
She on the other hand took up fly-fishing to spend an occasional day with me out in the boondocks looking for trout.
She hates it about as much as I find golf rather monotonous (first nine are tolerable, later nine a pain in the ….). Yet we do it for each other.

Infidelity doesn't matter in this state. I want more information for my protection. I don't want her spreading false things about me. I don't think it has gone to a full physical affair as the opportunity hasn't been there. They've only been together in group and public settings. She says if she wanted to have a physical affair, she would have one but she hasn't. Do I believe her, to an extent I do but not fully like I would've a few months ago. This experience has help me realize I need to change as a person. I'm losing some weight, being more active, and treating myself better. I'm reading books on confidence building for me. I'm not as focused on the marriage right now because the effort is not their from her and I want to get myself right first. She's golfing now and just wished I had someone there to take pics and video if he's there after they are done golfing as that's where this stuff takes place. If we break up, this will kill my interest in golfing. Not very good at it but would be willing to join a league with her if we were to somehow save this marriage (doubt it).

[This message edited by fsk071823 at 8:25 PM, Friday, September 22nd]

They've only been together in group and public settings

That you know of.

Trips to the store. Or shopping. Or to visit a friend. Maybe she took a day off of work to spend with him.

Many of us here thought there was no way our spouse was cheating, they're never home late from work,always with us,etc. We were wrong. They find a way.

They've only been together in group and public settings.

^^^How do you know this? They golf together, they can easily find a way to do a little romp session in one of the vehicles before they go home.

Understand cheaters lie, they find a way.

My WH AP lived 3,000 miles across the country, her BS found out about their emotional affair, confronted both of them, they told him they'd end it

A month later AP met my husband at his hotel, right under the BS nose. All of them worked for the same company, all of them were in meetings together the very next day.

You sound as though you are placing the blame on you.

You're going to be desperately unhappy while waiting around for her to "wake up." Get yourself out of infidelity by following the very good advice you've already been given. Tell the other betrayed spouse, and file for divorce. Filing for divorce doesn't mean there WILL BE a divorce, but it does show your wife you are serious and won't be disrespected any more. You deserve peace, love and joy. Make today the first step to finding it.

^^From FunHouseMirror. Nailed it on the head.

I don't want her spreading false things about me

^^^Who really gives a hoot what she says. She is a proven liar.

You are living in fear of the unknown, find your strength and get yourself out of infidelity. She's either with you or she's not, and she may already be gone.

Gently, you are allowing a third party to be smack in the middle of your marriage.

She's going to spread false info about you,regardless. Are you going to run around after her,and show everyone your evidence?

You know. That's all that matters. Anyone else's opinion of you is irrelevant.

Dear fsk, your relationship seems to be dead and your wife is fine to leave you in a painful limbo as long as it suites her. Don't do the pick me dance (joining golf leage to save the marrige?), leave this toxic situationship and take care of yourself.

I don't think it has gone to a full physical affair as the opportunity hasn't been there.

Unless you can prove conclusively they've never had 5 minutes alone, then you have no basis to be assured this hasn't happened. If you ever work up the courage to confront her, tell her she'll be taking a polygraph if she wants the marriage to continue. When she blows up at you, don't wilt. Just say "I'm sorry you feel that way but you've left me no choice but to start D".

Keep working on yourself. You are taking positive steps to improve and get stronger. You don’t turn everything around over night. But don’t quit. Keep healing. Keep working on yourself. You will find that the stronger and more independent you feel, the more you will require those around you to treat you with respect. Always value yourself. You are not a perfect spouse, but neither is your WW. Take no blame for her cheating. Do not do the pick me dance. Sometimes you have to risk losing your M in order to have any chance to save it. Good luck.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 11:38 PM, Friday, September 22nd]

Hey bud, I've been in something not too unsimilar. Where you feel like you have messed up your life decisions and are in a situation you have not asked for. Also that your wife has blurred lines that should never be blurred.

I don't want her spreading false things about me. I don't think it has gone to a full physical affair as the opportunity hasn't been there. They've only been together in group and public settings.

Honestly its doesn't matter man. Other people don't matter, your wife doesn't respect your marital vows. You know this, the people that love and care for you will realize this. You deserve better and you need to start demanding better in life.

She says if she wanted to have a physical affair, she would have one but she hasn't. Do I believe her, to an extent I do but not fully like I would've a few months ago.

Who cares what kind of way she is cheating on you. She is cheating. And you dont deserve it. Its a violation of your boundaries. Don't wait to make your life better.

This experience has help me realize I need to change as a person. I'm losing some weight, being more active, and treating myself better. I'm reading books on confidence building for me. I'm not as focused on the marriage right now because the effort is not their from her and I want to get myself right first.

Glad you are working on yourself, but you need to put yourself in an environment where you can flourish. If your wife isn't helping you do that then you need to scram ASAP. I strongly encourage you to find a therapist who specializes in ACTS. Its a very powerful way of thinking that builds up your ability to handle life

She's golfing now and just wished I had someone there to take pics and video if he's there after they are done golfing as that's where this stuff takes place. If we break up, this will kill my interest in golfing. Not very good at it but would be willing to join a league with her if we were to somehow save this marriage (doubt it).

You don't need any more proof. You need to start making your life better. We are all here to support you. Get the life you deserve man. And please feel free to keep asking for help here, we all need it.

[This message edited by Tav3n at 12:26 AM, Saturday, September 23rd]

I really think it's just more of a when and not if. I'm in a lot better place than I was a couple of weeks ago. Refocusing on me and getting some meds has really guided me on the right path. I may not be what she needs now in her growth, but I really think the grass won't be greener on the other side and it will be too late. Once we're done, we're done. No going back. Don't need that drama in my life. Will look for someone (maybe) who will be nicer to me and more aligned with me.

I really think it's just more of a when and not if. I'm in a lot better place than I was a couple of weeks ago. Refocusing on me and getting some meds has really guided me on the right path. I may not be what she needs now in her growth, but I really think the grass won't be greener on the other side and it will be too late. Once we're done, we're done. No going back. Don't need that drama in my life. Will look for someone (maybe) who will be nicer to me and more aligned with me.

Bro what do you mean in her growth?! Her situation has nothing to do with getting what you deserve. You are always able to stick with her and work things out if you want. I did with my wife 5 months ago and its a lot better than it was, but only because I made clear boundaries of what I wanted and how she needed to help the healing process.

That being said I highly encourage you to get an ACTS therapist. You really should figure out what you value in life, and seek to get it with yourself and people around you.

If you are decided that the marriage is over anyways and aren’t going to make any effort to save it, then why does her budding relationship with Bubba Woods bother you so much?
After all – it does sound like you have checked out.

I may not be what she needs now in her growth, but I really think the grass won't be greener on the other side and it will be too late.

That grass is greener because it's been fertilized with lots of BS from the AP.

My fWW found that out when she finally realized that he'd been feeding her a line of BS just to get in her pants.

I don't think it has gone to a full physical affair as the opportunity hasn't been there.

When I first discovered what I believed was an EA this is what I believed as well. Even though the evidence clearly suggested a PA. Why do we believe? Because we have a deep seated belief that our partners would never blatantly lie to us. Sure, maybe a white lie. Maybe a fib to get what they want now and then. But they would never deliberately lie to and betray us with such deceit.

When you think it's "just" an EA you still naturally believe that if she said that they were going to a museum they were actually at the museum in public the whole time. In reality they met at his place for sex before. Riding to the museum together was the excuse. On another museum trip they cut short the art and culture to make a beeline to a motel. And of course her work trips to his town and places nearby were all business.

Even after my WW admitted that it was physical "a few times when she happened to be in his town" it was many years before I really understood and accepted the depth of her deceit. The truth is that it was physical over a dozen times, all planned meetings for that purpose.

I really hope that you are correct, fsk. But keep an open mind. Unless you are what a WS will invariably call "controlling" and know where they are at all times, it's almost impossible to really know if there was opportunity.

She says if she wanted to have a physical affair, she would have one but she hasn't.

It's indicative of how self-obsessed a typical WS is that she thinks that this is exculpatory or in any way speaks well of her.

It's a good thing to focus on yourself. But make sure that you're doing it for your own purposes and not to dance for her.

Honestly… If you are already determined that this will end in divorce and are not willing to do anything to prevent or stop this emotional affair (or worse) then why are you worried about what she’s doing OTHER than how it might affect a divorce?

If the ONLY reason you haven’t filed already is "getting your ducks in a row" and if you are so 100% convinced that she will eventually file… then why not also assume she too is getting HER ducks in a row?

What is it SPECIFICALLY that you can "line up" to make the divorce more advantageous to you?

What is it that SHE can line up to make the divorce more advantageous to HER?

After the divorce – once your legal and emotional connection has been served – what can you do to prevent her from telling all her friends that you were a miserable SOB and she should never have married you?

Well… just about as much as will prevent you from telling everyone that she was a skank and you had reason to suspect Bubba was putting on her green.

Basically NOTHING. Nothing but decency and common sense.

And yes – of course – the simple fact that nobody really cares or wants to hear that sort of bull anyways. People KNOW that divorces are because the divorced couple don’t get along. They also tend to know that there are two sides, half-truths and all that. Most of all – they don’t really care.

I think I know why you aren’t filing or taking any action… I think it goes back to the common mistakes I refer to earlier: You are scared.

Being scared is normal. However it doesn’t change reality and that if you stand still you will eventually be caught up in reality. It’s to YOUR advantage to act.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:29 PM, Saturday, September 23rd]

My H’s first 4 year EA was an EA. I never believed it was physical.

Rug sweeping and having too much trust in him was my biggest mistake.

And rug sweeping that first affair made it much easier to have his second affair.

Don’t believe in someone who has proven they are no longer trustworthy. Period.