SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Somehow humor is just not working on this thread.

I really wanted to come up with a clever pun tying together a knight's plate mail with heavy metal, too... oh well. Maybe I'll save it for one of your threads, InkHulk.

Can’t wait, I’m sure it will be clever and devastating

Ha OK, I retract! Sorry I read it as you saying I was holier than thou or something. Just used to your casual 2x4s I guess

Let's move on.

Ozzy,
Im confused… so the attention they received from men at the bar all night was unwanted…yet they leave the bar at the end of the night to walk back to their hotel with random, strange(and likely drunk)men? For safety?

Women that understand healthy boundaries and are secure can handle any attention at a bar or any damn place. It’s women that don’t understand boundaries that are the problem. Specially when one is married to one and has stepped out before.

I am not sure what the idea behind this is. It’s like a recovering alcoholic telling some I was offered whiskey today, they tried to shove it down my throat but I resisted. Should we hand out medals now for people to resist cheating?

For all the talk of feminism and predatory behavior, there is a woman out there that is kept in the dark and has no say in her own marriage. All because a fellow woman felt entitled and stepped into her marriage. True feminism isn’t just restricted to thwarting predatory behavior at bars and work places. It’s also respecting other women enough to not step into their relationships.

You can shut off the humor meter for this one.

Women that understand healthy boundaries and are secure can handle any attention at a bar or any damn place.

I agree, but not having healthy boundaries is what got us all here in the first place. We have to learn how to put them in place and enforce them, which is often easier in theory than it is in practice due to the conditioning that most women have been receiving our whole lives.

I'm grateful to have been reared by a feminist mom who taught me to walk with confidence and purpose in order to deter predators. My husband tells me often that I have no awareness of when men are looking at me, and I'd like to think it's because I place little value on that sort of attention. I'd rather the public at large see me as a bad bitch who is not to be trifled with than as a pretty woman. I've been that way since I was a kid. I was a horse girl who showed jumpers, and there was nothing I loved more than walking into a 7-11 after leaving the barn, sweaty and gross and wearing my chaps. I found that feeling again in my 40s when I skated roller derby for five years. And I'm chasing it again at the gym. Evidently, I like being sweaty and gross. Maybe that's why I don't get hit on very often.

Seriously, though, the women I know aren't dressing up to attract men. We're dressing up to elicit "OMG, that is so cute!" so that we can respond with "Thanks! Ten bucks at TJ Maxx!" And we're not going to bars to dance with strange men. We're going to bars to dance with our girlfriends and have fun. We're just taking our feminine pack energy to the party level.

IMO, any talk of a husband "taking leadership" in the relationship would best be met with aggressive double middle fingers. Everyone is responsible for their own behavior, and everyone is responsible for their own boundaries regarding what type of behavior they'll accept from a spouse. Trying to control another person is dysfunctional.

Seriously, though, the women I know aren't dressing up to attract men. We're dressing up to elicit "OMG, that is so cute!" so that we can respond with "Thanks! Ten bucks at TJ Maxx!" And we're not going to bars to dance with strange men. We're going to bars to dance with our girlfriends and have fun. We're just taking our feminine pack energy to the party level.

This! I haven't been out dancing with my girls for years but when I did, it was to dance with them and have fun. There is nothing inherently wrong with GNO. It is not fishing for a new mate or an AP.

IMO, any talk of a husband "taking leadership" in the relationship would best be met with aggressive double middle fingers.

This again!

Double the aggression for most of the women here who have been cheated on. Yeah, let's let that dude decide where we can go, how we dress and who we can hang out with.

IDK ... I have strengths my W doesn't have, and vice versa; in fact, her strengths in areas of my weakness was one of her attractions. We'd both be foolish to let the other lead where we're the stronger one, except maybe as a learning exercise. And we'd be pretty foolish to let the other lead in areas of our interest and the other's lack of interest. Where we both are interested and disagree, we have another opportunity for growth.

...

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:31 PM, Wednesday, March 20th]

IDK ... I have strengths my W doesn't have, and vice versa; in fact, her strengths in areas of my weakness was one of her attractions. We'd both be foolish to let the other lead where we're the stronger one, except maybe as a learning exercise. And we'd be pretty foolish to let the other lead in areas of our interest and the other's lack of interest. Where we both are interested and disagree, we have another opportunity for growth.

You really think one person should "lead the relationship"? Not areas of the relationship, like bill-paying, laundry, or yard maintenance, but the relationship itself? Because that's not healthy at all, IMO. That's controlling. You do you, I do me, and if we jibe, we jibe. If we don't, you get the choice to move along or tolerate it.

My wife and I are in our 60s now with her being younger by more than a few years. We have been together 40+ years. She has always gone out with her friends a few times a year or so--less lately as we aged. She is attractive and a great dancer.

She has excellent boundaries and will only dance with her female friends or me. Her friends are a mix of attractive and not so attractive women. They never get hit on that I am aware. I have asked.

I, on the other hand, have shitty boundaries and used to have to constantly put myself in check. I stopped going out with my friends 30+ years ago because of my loose boundaries. I self enforced my restrictions. Keeps me on the straight and narrow.

I haven't made too many posts here, I'm still new. I didn't mean to trigger anyone here when I said that OP should take leadership in his relationship, as opposed to being lead by his cheating wife.

Every company, every board of directors, every country has one final decision maker. If you have 2 people trying to drive the same car and they disagree, that car will crash. In my humble opinion relationships are no different, and relationship should be lead by a man. Naturally, the man must prove himself to be capable of leading, and if he is not, he shouldn't be in a relationship. Provision and protection should rest on the shoulders of a man.
I believe that majority of women want exactly that, and in fact resent men who they have to lead. Relationships where women are the bread winners don't last (according to some sites, around 30% more likely to end in divorce).
Women leave relationships (break ups, divorce) around 80% of time. And those that are ready to blame men for the break ups, simply go ahead and compare divorce rates among lesbian women vs gay men.
This site as well as others is a clear reflection that relationships in western society are not in a great place, and something should be done to correct that.

As for the comment about ""husband "taking leadership" in the relationship would best be met with aggressive double middle fingers"", in my opinion the answer to that is simple. Any woman who shows that sort of disrespect towards her husband who
provides for her, and who is expected to die for her in case of an attack, is single from that moment on. Relationships where respect doesn't exist are not relationships at all.

How respectful is it for a man to tell his wife where to go,how to behave,and what to where, as if she's a toddler?

So because a man is a breadwinner,he had the right to tell his wife what to do?

You talk of respect..but what about showing the wife respect?

Well, some context for this thread may be useful here. It is a bit like the question 'Are bars bad places to be'. And the answer is that there is nothing inherently wrong with bars. But if instead the question were 'Are bars bad places to be *for someone who is an alcoholic*?' the answer would be quite different indeed.

There have been at least a few threads written by men upset that their wives in their GNOs had gotten themselves into compromising situations--such as being walked to their cars or to their hotels by men they met that night out. And the responses for the most part seem pretty sympathetic to these men, even in those instances where there appeared to be no prior infidelity on the part of the wives. The difference here is that the OP has actually been betrayed by his WW. I'd say that given this, his WW put herself in quite an unsafe situation. Her going on these GNOs seems to me like an alcoholic going to a bar. So I get why he is unhappy.

HellFire,
Looks like my post went over your head. A man who is responsible to provide and protect his wife but has no authority over her is her slave. I don't support relationships of that category.
Nowhere have I said or even implied that a wife doesn't deserve any respect. I'm of the opinion that married women should not get themselves in a situation where they will appear available to other men, and that married men should not approach other women.
In OPs case, you clearly have an example of a wayward doing whatever she wants, and gets away with it.

Oh,no. It didn't go over my head at all. I got exactly what you meant.

WBFA..Ozzy isn't upset with his wife's behavior. He's upset with the men who approach her.

To add to this related topic of men trying to meet women out, I am now single and looking to meet someone, and who does not like online dating. As far as 'what to do' I have tried looking at this from every and all angles...

- Women get hit on all the time and in many instances just want to left alone

- But, many single women also welcome being approached too.

- You don't want to be that gnat buzzing up to every woman at the venue

- But if you are a guy who is so "respectful" that you sit around minding your own business then...you probably will be left alone and won't end up making a connection with anyone. Women like confident men who go for what they want!

- You do *not* want to be approaching someone else's wife...

- But you have no way of knowing for sure whether the women you are approaching is single or not before you even say hi.

The solution that I find works for me is to go over and say hi, and as soon as I find the woman is in a relationship or not into talking with me I make a graceful exit. With that said, I do believe that there are men and women out there who should be taking more care to avoid situations, such as OP's WW avoiding bars.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 11:16 PM, Wednesday, March 20th]

HellFire

WBFA..Ozzy isn't upset with his wife's behavior. He's upset with the men who approach her.

I think I see better now. Ozzie is certainly NOT the first BH who tried to transfer all of the blame of his WW's straying, on fully to OM, and this sort of thread--Ozzie trying to put the blame on this bad interaction WW had, on the OM *instead of* on WW and her bad boundaries.

I suppose my question to this is what if any WW's behaviour may have played in the interactions with the men who approached her. I don't think Ozzie got the full story.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 11:14 PM, Wednesday, March 20th]

Sometimes women don't do anything..at all..and men still think it's ok to flirt,and continue trying to give attention,when it's been made clear it's unwelcome.

Do I think a ww,not far out from an affair should be going to clubs,knowing she will be getting male attention? No. Do I think she may be seeking ego kibble? Yes.

I think we are talking about 2 different things in this thread. One being, why do some men think its ok to try and push a woman's boundaries. The other being, should a ww continously put herself in a position where drinks are flowing, making herself look hot, and knowing she will be getting a lot of male attention?

Ozzy says he's ok with it in this thread. However,Ozzy,IIRC, I read a recent post of yours,and things haven't been going great for you(if I have you confused with someone else, disregard this). If that is true, I'm really sorry your wife isn't doing a better job of making you feel safe.