SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thanks, HF. ❤️

No, BSR, thank you for calling me out. It gave me a chance to reconsider what I said. It was completely insensitive.

I have Aspergers. Which, is why I am so black and white in my thinking, and why I tend to be blunt. However, it's not excuse for being insensitive.

I was completely wrong in the way I worded that post. Of course good moms are sometimes unaware of abuse. Mine was.

Thank you for calling me out, and giving me th opportunity to rethink what I said.

OP..again..I sincerely apologize.

HF,

I do appreciate it. I stand by my stance that WW is an incredible mom, despite this awful situation we are in. I do believe she may have missed some red flags after some more conversations with son/therapist but I don’t think she had any inkling of what was really going on. Truly I was just as shocked when I found out, it wasn’t at all what I expected. If I find out that she knew, and just hid it, everything changes. I am still reeling from it all, and I do know my son started behaving way out of character during the A, and I am very upset that WW didn’t consider anything could be wrong and why. I suspect she suspected but was too busy in LaLa land. That’s been hard for me to work with.

I know my son feels betrayed, for sure by POSAP (who was someone who looked up to and trusted, makes me feel a horrendous complicated emotions), and I think he also feels betrayed by his mom. I won’t get in the way of their relationship. Young as he is, he has every right to choose how he wants to handle it with her, and I will support him. Again, WW isn’t hiding, she has taken the full responsibility and is doing the best she can with it. That’s all that I feel can be done for now. This has hurt a lot of our R progress and marriage, I am not doing well with it at all. I’ve been lashing out at her pretty hard, and it has changed a lot of what I feel. I think a big part is I finally had to face that POS was actually living with my family and WW was happy to make it. Plus so much more. She insists that she still loved me during it all, but that just makes my stomach turn. I’d rather she just be "no, I didn’t love you, I didn’t want to D because of family" or whatever.

What a mess

I think a big part is I finally had to face that POS was actually living with my family and WW was happy to make it. Plus so much more.

What I’ve read about Denial has been really interesting to me. There are these obvious truths sitting in front of us, like what you wrote above, but our mind isn’t ready to deal with it and so we hardly notice it. Everyone else can see it plain as day, but to us in it, it isn’t in our already overloaded consciousness. I think that is a big part of why people around here say year 2 is worse in some ways for those trying to R, you see almost all of it.

I’d just say continue to be patient with yourself. You are going thru trauma and grief phases from betrayal you had no part in. I’m sure I sound like a broken record by now, but having gone thru it recently, I don’t think you can hear that enough. There is a bottom, you will get there safe, and you are capable of rebuilding from there, whatever you want that to look like.

IH,

I’m not worried about myself. I’m hurting and everything, but I do know that no matter what happens I’ll be ok.

It’s interesting, a lot of stats that I have read about infidelity all show that most marriages don’t survive past the 2 year mark, or at the least under 5. There is an interesting correlation that usually around 18/24 months the BS is actually healing and seeing everything clear, and from self reported stats that is usually when most post A marriages end.

Peggy Vaughan did a study on the aftermath of As (Help for Therapists (and Their Clients)). A majority of the respondents to her survey said they were still married after the A.

I don't know statistics well enough to figure out if there's enough data to deduce how long the respondents stayed together, but the fact is that a majority of them stayed married.

Sisson,

I will be first to admit stats are tricky with marriage and infidelity, a lot of is self reported, and as I said in a previous post there very well could be a silent majority of couples who stay and never disclose infidelity. That being said, from the couples who have stated it, something like 75-85% end up in D within 5 years. At least from what I have found.

I completely understand that many couples probably don’t discuss it, and the numbers could be very skewed.

There is an interesting correlation though, we always say 2-5 years for healing with most being more like 3-6, and that’s also when the self reported couples would D.

I just poked my nose into the Vaughn study, and from what I can see, the data is 20 years old. The sample size was about 1000, but the questions were self reported on the internet from what I gather, so I'm not certain how to judge the accuracy. What concerned me, is that there was no information I could find on how long couples stayed together. What I did find was that a significant number of couples who stayed together we either meh or unhappy. As well, even 2 years our, which Vaughn suggested was the marker for healedish, 45 were still in pain from the trauma.

I'd like to do a deep dive once I get a chance. I'd love to hear thoughts, as I am not a statistics person.

Justsomeguy,

I’ve done a lot of research into everything, it’s really just how I am. I’m trying to remember, there was a podcast I heard from two licensed psychologists who went in depth about the stats of infidelity. I’m not going to say for sure what study or studies they used because I can’t remember. If I can find it again I will site my sources. Hell I even read an article by Esther Pear of all people who did a follow up of three couples post infidelity. All 3 were still married, 2 were absolutely miserable in different ways, the third was "recovering" but the BW was still not excited or thrilled about how they got their on their journey.

Bottom line though, infidelity ruins relationships. Many might hold on, but from what I have read many couples never get back. Here on SI there are definitely some who have proven it’s possible, but they are exceptions. One who even said she was completely R just found out her WH is still cheating.

Also, I’m dealing with a lot so my point of view may be skewed as well, and right now I’m just trying to keep it going for kids. This final revelation has pretty much been the nail in the coffin for me, at least at the moment. I don’t plan on D, but I don’t know how I will ever feel about WW again after all of this.

It has reopened so many deep wounds, that I thought were healed but now I don’t think so. It’s really hard and I’ve had to face to full scale of betrayal. Only good thing is finally my kids don’t mention AP anymore, or if they do it’s all bad. one of my daughters wrote a letter to Santa and asked for AP to get a special gift. (This was about 6 months post dday2 and NC) What a fucking gut punch that was. I tolerated it because I wanted to protect my family from this.

I am heartbroken for my son but so proud of him for coming forward and letting me know everything he knew.

Sorry I’m rambling because I’m really just not doing well, and this is one of the few places I can vent in safety

I have read multiple studies that state approximately 40% of people will divorce after infidelity, which I could believe to be very plausible. The problem with any of these studies is that it has to be a self-reported thing and I don't think any of us would be surprised to know how many people are walking around affected by this who have never said anything.

She insists that she still loved me during it all, but that just makes my stomach turn. I’d rather she just be "no, I didn’t love you, I didn’t want to D because of family" or whatever.

The next time she has the audacity to make a comment that absurd and audacious, just respond with: "If that's what you did while you still loved me, then what would you have done if you hated me?"

I apologize for the T/J.

If you use statistics in a post, please cite your sources. I agree with everything that has been said about the absurdity of the numbers we have now.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:20 PM, Monday, February 26th]

BLB,

Yeah it’s pretty bad. Seems to be a trend of WS "I never stopped loving you". Whatever. I know there’s been countless discussions on this with many who strayed saying they still loved their partners but…. I don’t want to hear it anymore. I really appreciate your input and perspective on my thred.

Sissson,

Noted. I won’t cite stats without support. Just want to reiterate I do have a background in stats, and I am well aware the data that comes from self reporting has many flaws. It is, unfortunately really the only way for things like infidelity to gather information. I do not take it at face value, and I understand the data is all over the place depending on the source.

I do feel it’s safe to say despite the outcome, infidelity causes massive damage to both parties and can have long lasting effects on everyone.

I want to get this thread back to the main issue:
Your son’s safety and mental health…

The AP behavior is abuse. That’s pretty clear. What is surprising though is how many surveys support the theory that a lot of abuse – especially abuse of children and sexual abuse – tends to be from people the victim knows…
Like… Uncle Bob fondles the kids, teachers, scout-leaders, coaches… This is probably more common that a guy in a tacky white van offering candy…
This can apply to all types and levels of abuse. I remember a PE teacher that singled me out and humiliated repeatedly – classic bullying. Fortunately, I was socially strong enough (and probably physically too…) so the other kids didn’t join in, but there were other kids that got the same treatment from him and not so lucky.
A shocking number of rapes and molestation (juvenile and adult) is by someone the victim knows. I recall having read somewhere that this is also the most common situation in repeated rapes/molestation. After all – the perpetrator has slipped though all the defenses and has access.

I get the anger at your wife. I get it that the abuser is also the OM. But try as you can to separate the two things. He could just as well have been the baseball coach or the friendly neighbor or… the dreaded uncle Bob…
Yes – chances are your WW guard lowered, it’s also likely that son was confused about the situation (after all – telling dad would cause mom trouble) or whatever. But… as a young boy it’s hard to understand that the shame is not yours, that the blame is not yours, that just because someone makes you a victim he doesn’t make you a slave.

I would have a very serious talk with son. I get it you have already done so.
But I would emphasize that a) he can ALWAYS come to you no matter what, b) he should always speak out if he sees what he perceives as wrong, and c) he can speak to you about it, even if he thinks its YOU that’s doing wrong.
Then you train him in communicating with you. Spend time together doing stuff. Not only play, but if you got to change the oil on your car have him help, even if the "extra hands" and "extra help" makes it take 2x longer (tell me about it – explain to a 10 year old the difference between a spanner and a wrench…)

Another thing: Go select someone you trust. Someone preferably a bit younger than you. Preferably someone close, but not too close. Like… a sibling or your son’s best friends dad… Then ask that person if your son can talk to them if he has issues… That this person has your confidence, and that you hope he shares with you your son’s concerns.
Explain to them what happened in the detail you are comfortable with "I was overseas and a man physically hurt my son. He didn’t confide in his mom, and he couldn’t reach me. I would really appreciate it if my son knows he can always talk to you about issues like this. You can then contact me."
Oh yeah! Finally – Don’t select Uncle Bob!

What has your wife been doing, to help your son, since this has come out?

It is true most abuse is perpetrated by people that the abused knew and trusted.

But it's one thing to let a wolf into the barn because it's disguised in sheep's clothing. It's quite another to let the wolf into the barn because you think it's cute, want to keep it as a pet while the farmer is away, and fooled the farmer into thinking you were temporarily fostering a German shepherd.

Therefore, I don't think there's any separating your son's abuse from the fact that it happened at the hands of the OM.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 4:33 PM, Tuesday, February 27th]

Bigger,

I know you mean well, but I am going to be blunt. Don’t tell me how to be a dad, especially with my son. Don’t tell me to separate my anger from OM hitting my child while he was in an active A with my WW, which my son knows about. You have no idea what you’re talking about. You want to offer advice, fine. Keep to your flowery speech about "I won’t share you" and stay out of lanes you know nothing about.

Hellfire,

I’m still waiting to see. She has been open and honest with our son and has really tried to be there for him. She made sure his therapist knew everything and didn’t hold back so that he could have that peace. She is taking accountability, and I do believe she had no idea what was going on. Our son was scared of what would happen if he confided, and he was scared of what AP would do. Thankfully he got support he needed to finally release him from this prison.

Sorry I’m rambling because I’m really just not doing well, and this is one of the few places I can vent in safety

Thanks for being honest with us. Vent away, brother, it’s a perfect spot for it.

HellIsNotHalfFull, just letting you know that we're thinking about you and your family, and hope that you are all holding up.