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I just want to have one moment where I don't have that elephant in my head..it is even rare for me to wake up and find my mind already there. Sometimes I wonder if I knew the entire truth, would I really feel better or be better able to move on. I don't think we ever get the whole story..and maybe that's for a reason..I don't think they really get how much pain and destruction this has caused...I feel like I am pretending to be alive...does anyone think I need meds? I cannot afford counseling, I don't think...maybe I will have to do it for myself...I just question a random person understanding this ****, and depending on who you have access to, is there advice based on educational knowledge or their own beliefs? Do I think too much?

reallylost,

we all probably think to much

the thing we all have to learn to live with is that we may never know everything.. even if we did, we would always wonder more. I read a post that someone said, "if they had 12 secret e-mail accounts and I checked them all and found no evidence, I'd wonder if there was a 13th account". That's me too. But I've been trying to force myself to believe that no evidence means nothing is going on and not let my mind conjure it's own nightmares

Hang in there, we're all in this together

I agree torment - I am always looking - I can't stop. I haven't found any evidence in the past 5 weeks, but I can't get over the feeling that there is something out there. I try and take advice that "if something is going on, you will find out". I keep thinking there is a hidden phone, he did not just "stop" talking to her after dday #3. (dday #2 is when I found a secret cell phone) They are just better at hiding it.

My H had an EA also. Met her when he was out of the country, text, ICQ, secret e-mail phone calls, mailing gifts and money. He couldn't F her because she was out of the country. however he proposed to her, promised to divorce me and move to her communist country. Hence my screen name! He knew her for 2 days. They just do not get it how painful it is to have them give themselves away emotionally and allow themselves to fall in love with someone else. I felt it would be easier if he just fucked someone and it was done. But the promises the willingness to give everything up for a stranger is too hard for my heart to bear. We went 4 years in R then last week i caught him again different woman this time closer to home. How to cope i really don't know. Obviously he has an ego problem. Seeks out strangers because he fears true committment and true intimacy.

Obviously he has an ego problem. Seeks out strangers because he fears true committment and true intimacy.

I think that's a huge part of what happened here. He told me once that he didn't care if he told her (any of them, I guess) something deeply personal and she laughed at him. But with me he cares deeply. Well... flattering, I guess. But it's still a huge problem, and one he hasn't solved. I am the one who said about the dozen e-mails, and that is part of why I keep feeling no matter how many avenues I rule out, he's found another one-- because he's shown me that he does want and need emotional intimacy with a woman, and it still isn't me. We make small talk. So I wonder where he's getting the real stuff from.

I find this so amazing, we have all had long term relationships with our partners and they find more intimate conversations with people they've known such a short time. My H and I are working hard to be more intimate and make our conversations more than about: the children, the weather...I was shocked myself when I really looked at how we related to each other. I think the attraction is that they know so little about these other people and they can imagine whatever it is they want. It hurts to think that they could go to the trouble of being intimate with someone else...yet we weren't worth the effort!

I am a little scared at the discovery that the man I have been with for 15 years ...may be the person in my life that I know the least about. I just hope that I like the person I am getting to know now.

I was wondering how many of us EAs had our WS write a NC letter. Here I am 8 mos (today is the anniversary,) and I am having him work on the letter now. I need your help. What should be and not be in that letter. I have had to have him write if over a few times already. Its as if he doesnt want to piss her off or hurt HER feelings.

Can you guys help me out?

I haven't had him write a letter. He says he hasn't told her that I know...I don't know if I believe that...but, i have told him that at some point he will have to tell her..he says he only has contact with her about work related issues and that he was the persuer and that it hadn't just begun when I discovered it. I don't know if I believe that either...I told him that i would have to tell her sometime that I knew and would tell her H if I saw that she was initiating the game again...I think that this has been on again off again(she does this with other guys at work for attention, then stops) I will get the right moment..I don't want to jeopardize his job at this time, but I may get to the point where that is not important.

I think there is a no contact letter or explanation of one in the healing library. Also, get the book , "Not Just Friends", by Shirley Glass.

Your are ahead of me by about 4 months..let me know what is ahead, please!

I haven't had my WH write a NC either. He promised me NC with her so guess I feel it's pointless to have him write her one, especially since that would actually be breaking NC.

I am really sad and gloomy today because my WH still has feelings for the OW. It makes me feel hurt and angry and hopeless. I don't know how to deal with any of these feelings. How long will it take to de-fog? His EA was only six weeks long and yet, he thinks it will take years to "get over" her. Anyone else having this problem with their WH? If so, how are you coping?

He led me to believe several times over the years that there was nothing more going on with her. After discovering yet another trick (moving her to his work account and giving me the password to his personal account), I got angry enough to tell him it was her or me. I didn't tell him to send NC letter. Two days later, he came home and told me he'd e-mailed her one (she's now 2000 miles away). First, he lied and told me he was so upset he had no idea what he said. Several months later, he told me he said something along the lines of, "She told me it was you or her, and I have to choose my family. I hope you and your husband never go through what I'm going through."

He has said, maybe 8 months ago, that he 'misses it.' Back in December, we had a discussion in which he could not bring himself to say anything even so mild as that it was wrong for her to encourage a married man to lie to his wife. He defended her, said he was sure she 'didn't see it that way.' Is that still in the fog or what? She told him to set up the account, she knew it was secret, she knew she was secret, he told her how he was being careful to delete everything and how he was afraid I might have seen the last few between them. And she willingly participated every step of the way. And 18 months from nc, he can't see that that is wrong.

Considering all the horrible things he's had to say to and about me, to her and many other people, that he would continue even now to defend her was about the last straw. How I'm coping is no more sex. I feel cheap and used when I give myself to someone who has made me look bad for years to everyone he knows, even led them to think I'm mentally ill, but can't even say it's 'wrong' to encourage a married man to lie to his wife!

[This message edited by capri at 1:22 PM, April 24th (Thursday)]

I did ask my H to tell her verbally that it would never happen again, instead of pretending it never happened. If that is really how it has played out. I asked him to tell me what he would say if she brought it up...he said he would tell her he couldn't do that..I wanted him to say...because I love my wife!! That didn't even cross his mind...and doesn't know how that hurt!

My WH didn't write a NC letter either. On November 2nd he told me it would never be an issue again. On December 22nd I found a secret cell phone (which apparently she provided him). On December 26th I was told that IT IS OVER (really this time) yeah right. I emailed her on 12/26 and told her to get her skank claws out of my husband or she could deal with her husband. I got a call from my WH and was told that her husband is a lunitic and that he would kill both of them - he is very abusive (funny if I lived with an abusive husband the last thing I would be doing is kissing another man). In January I told my WH that if I ever foudn further contact then her H would be told. On March 10th I found that they emailed through a gun website (though innocent stuff) it was still contact. WH said that she just asked a question about a gun - "god forbid he's rude to her and not respond". I sent a letter to OW's H, but never received response. Guess she must have intercepted. My WH never mentioned the letter so maybe OW's H did get it and doing his own investigating - I just think it is wierd he hasn't called. I know my WH would say something if OW knew about it.

So the story goes on that I still feel in my gut they are talking, just better at hiding it. I am always looking for clues, phones, chargers, phone cards, etc. Part of me just wants me to find something so I can just end this madness.

The other part of me just wants to believe him and move forward.

This really sucks!!!

Amen to that! THIS SUCKS!

That is such an unpleasant feeling, wanting to believe it's okay now and move forward. I wish I could, but after so many lies, I can't. And then fwh rubs salt in the wound by acting as if I'm just deliberately, obstinately refusing to trust him. As if years of lies leave me with a choice.

OMG, I am almost in tears reading your posts. I feel everything that u do. He gets angry because I cant trust him, , I so want to believe but I continue to snoop, sometimes like trustagain, I want to find something to end it once and for all, but pray that I dont. Like many of you I didnt think we needed a NC letter than I found out about the phone call he made. This was right after we got home from a romantic weekend he surprised me with for Valentine's day. I was so heart broken. Makes me wonder if he missed her and thought about her while we were together. I told him he really screwed up cuz I was finally feeling like I could forgive him and move on. Now we are right at the beginning again. God, Im glad I found all of you, I thought I was going crazy.

[This message edited by 2yrsinthedark at 7:37 PM, April 24th (Thursday)]

Since my WW worked with the other man, I knew that NC wasn't totally possible, but I did say and was clear, nothing personal, just work. If asked "how was your weekend?" respond with "how can I help you?" or even "what do you want?" nothing at all personal, keep it to work! I found out at 6 months that she contacted him trying to find out how he was doing.. the excuse I got was that he'd tried to kill himself and she was concerned, she told me no one else at work knew and not to tell, that resulted in a yet another fight and I IM'd with him and told him directly, co-workers only, nothing personal. He said he totally understood, co-workers and being polite and friendly.. I said "no, polite but not friendly.. you can't be friends". 2 months later he was fired and my WW e-mailed me the corp. letter saying that would make me happy. I said only if there is still no contact, which she said there wasn't. Flash forward 3 months and she e-mailed him again and he responded instantly, catching up on what he'd been doing the last 3 months. I totally lost it. Told my wife that she broke NC, she said she'd had a bad dream and thought something had happened to him. I told her I don't care if you have a dream or even if you see him hit by a car and dying... he's not her concern. my WW was very upset, I'm a bad person for not trusting her, for checking her e-mail, etc. I slept on the spare bed that night. I was also mad at him, I'd told him no contact and after a night of not sleeping I called him first thing in the morning. Told him he was an ass and that he was not to have contact with my WW. He said he'd done nothing wrong, that they hadn't been any contact. I was so pissed, said, "I'm not stupid.. as a matter of fact, if you ever want to commit suicide again, let me know, I'll make sure you know how to do it right!" (I didn't want to say I'd kill him but that's what I wanted to threaten) anyway I hung up and as far as I know, NC has been maintained for 6 months now unless he's calling her on her work phone which I doubt. So that long story is how NC came about, no actual letter.

sorry for the long post... that's been building for at least a day since the question about NC letters was asked

This was right after we got home from a romantic weekend he surprised me with for Valentine's day. I was so heart broken. Makes me wonder if he missed her and thought about her while we were together.

It makes you question everything. He spent years telling me 'someone at work' suggested he set up that first secret account. He finally admitted what my gut told me all along, that it was ow1 (skank!) He's told me for years that 'someone at work' said he'd look good in a goatee. So he wore one from about that time up until about the time I told him it was him or me. He says it's because after over a decade, having facial hair suddenly gave him a rash. But I'm left wondering if he wore that goatee for her the whole time. All those years, I loved him having a goatee, and that my husband had finally decided to grow one 'for me.'

For reasons I can't even remember, I found myself wondering a day or two ago if she was also in on the decision of which house to buy, back when we first bought a house. I find myself wondering how much of 'my' marriage was really the two of them.

tormentedsoul, there are so many stories like yours, of continued and recurring broken nc. It is yet another reason there is no more intimacy between us. He has steadfastly refused to let me look at his work e-mail, and simply dismisses the little issue that he hid her there for a few months till I figured it out for myself. He doesn't seem to think the fact that he's breaking his promise to forward ALL personal e-mail sent to his work account should bother me, either. After all, it's 'just' so and so, it's 'just' about such and such, and (yelling at me) he didn't reply to any of it anyway. He simply refuses to admit that breaking a promise is breaking a promise, period. Lying is LYING, period. But I'm just supposed to take his word for it that he's not lying about HER.

Excuse the vent.

Thought I would chime in...

My FWH never wrote a NC letter because I ended it for him. I called her house at 6:30 in the morning and left a message on her answering machine that she had better knock off the crap with calling my H and to stay out of my marriage. I also informed her that we had a 10 year old son who didn't need his parents to divorce over this. She went into work that day (they were co-workers) and told my FWH. He called me up, pissed...that I called her, asking me what was I doing? Cracked me up.

I told him I didn't give a shit anymore and that if he wanted crazy (every story he ever told me about her, was about how *crazy* she was), I would give him crazy (I'm normally very reserved). And that is what finally ended their contact. My FWH found another job about a month after that, so I'm not sure what went on between them during that month, and probably never will.

We had been thru hell years ago when he had LTA with another co-worker but somehow managed to recover (miracles do happen), and he had been as good as gold for the last 10+ years, so I was absolutely thrown for a loop that he would do something so crazy and, to me, incredibly stupid, especially if you're risking your marriage and NOT having sex. What's the point?

I found this EA even more confusing than the PA. It just seems idiotic to me. He wasn't *in love* with this woman, in fact, when he first started working there, he couldn't stand to be around her so much, she gave him a headache, she was so stupid, talked too much....This is who he ends up sneaking out to his car late at night to talk to.... Then when I find out, he can't *remember* what they talked about, it was nonsense, nothing important, blah, blah, blah. So what do I have here?

-A person he didn't think was smart

-talked too much

- was as old as I am (49 y/o, not like a hot young babe, like I would have thought he would have acted like an idiot for)

- supposedly NOT having sex with her.

He was willing to risk his marriage, family, home, job for???

It just doesn't freakin' make sense to me. DD for me was 11/07 and I still obsess it.

I just feel like he has to give me something... Even it hurts, tell me what you were thinking! He just doesn't have any answers. Says he doesn't know why he did it.

Wasn't in love with her.

Didn't sleep with her.

It just doesn't make sense...

It just doesn't freakin' make sense to me. DD for me was 11/07 and I still obsess it.

I just feel like he has to give me something... Even it hurts, tell me what you were thinking! He just doesn't have any answers. Says he doesn't know why he did it.

Wasn't in love with her.

Didn't sleep with her.

It just doesn't make sense...

I got an answer just tonight, don't know that it helps. He is TRYING to communicate honestly, he is not trying to hurt me, but what he said was:

"She gave me feelings you never did and I don't think you ever will. (NOT sexual, emotional validation). I can't help thinking about her because those feelings were good. I don't want a divorce because a. the kids b. 24 years together c. She no doubt has flaws I don't see, even if she WERE interested in me. I love you, I'm truly sorry I hurt you, I am NC, I want R, but I doubt I will ever stop thinking about OW".

Fanfuckingtastic. Guess what? I will never stop thinking about how I AM NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU. I'm fucking HUMAN, so are YOU, we are bound to let each other down!

Fucktard!

Thanks for letting me vent. Now I can sleep.

Ouch, Latebloomer, that hurts.

I don't know how I would respond to that. He may be

brutally honest or he's idealizing this OW and her *magical* ability to give him *good feelings*. Really, what the hell is he talking about?