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I guess this is a strange question. Two I guess. Those of you that had revenge affairs did it easy your pain? And those of you that suffered from revenge affairs did it give you any empathy for what your BS went through?. I have always been the good guy but I have a lot of anger in me and sometimes I wonder if it would be worth it to light the fuse and let it all burn. It is not like I could the affair gave me ED and I can hardly stand sex anyway but I just wonder.

[This message edited by Losthusband43 at 11:50 PM, Tuesday, March 8th]

I'm a madhatter whose H had an RA, though it was more about validation than deliberately hurting me. It did hurt, of course, especially since he chose someone who was both taller and thinner than I was. Those were the two Achilles heels of my self-image.

Honestly, though, his A backfired on him. He still loved me, so there was no pleasure in seeing me cry. On my side, I no longer felt as guilty about what I had done because he had gone outside our relationship, too. I used that as justification for lying and hiding the full extent of my own affair. He didn't enjoy telling me details, and I certainly didn't want to share mine, so it was the perfect recipe for rugsweeping.

Migander

WW started IC in November 2021 and was going weekly. Just switched to biweekly due to new job on her part and the therapist suggested biweekly. Makes me wonder. I asked her about it and she told me the reasons and she said she didn’t want me to think this means she is less committed to working on herself. It’s hard not to take it that way

Is the new job only paying for biweekly? Or is she backing off a bit to get adjusted to the new job? Those are very valid reasons to be going to less frequent sessions.

It's good that she's in IC and staying in there. November isn't that far in. It took me over a year to get my head out of my ass and actually see my BH as human and the M as something I definitely wanted to save.

Beagle,

It’s hard not to take it that way

Personally, I don’t think how often she goes to IC matters. What are you seeing from her on a daily basis? Are you seeing real change? Are you seeing a positive result from her IC sessions? She could go 3 times a week, but if there aren’t tangible results because she’s just going to make you happy by checking a box, then it’s all pointless. But if she only goes once every 2 weeks but you are seeing real differences in her actions, behavior and how she interacts with you, then IMO that’s what matters.

Lost husband-

It’s natural you would wonder if it would make you feel better. That kind of pain can make you feel desperate.

Here is my experience with h having an affair after mine:

1. Harder to take him seriously when he declares how wrong he feels cheating is.
2. His reasons for cheating boil down to be no different than mine.
3. Harder to reconcile the more transgressions between two people.
4. Cheating is often damaging to the cheater themselves. I know I had a big hole to climb out of full of shame when I did it. It was double hard for him because he had that and healing to do as the bs.
5.I don’t trust him. It’s so hard for both people to earn back trust. He broke his integrity same as me.
6. You are involving another person who might get very hurt in the war you are having with yourself.

It’s much better for you to decide your boundaries, work on yourself, and evaluate if you truly want this relationship. If so, what is she doing to show you that feeling is mutual? Focus on less toxic ways of leaving the relationship if that is what is needed.

Dday was November 2021. I am the bs. Ww started IC like two weeks after dday. She was going weekly but now biweekly. I was concerned with this. She said the therapist suggested it and her work load is increasing and we work seperate shifts. She never really says much about her therapy and that she is working on coping skills etc

She’s communicating her feelings a bit more. She doesn’t ever initiate discussions about much of anything . We had a discussion about it over the weekend. She said she feels terrible for the pain she caused me and started to cry a lot. I think she is in her shame and guilt and encouraged her to process it with her therapist. There has been a pattern on her part in our relationship and marriage of conflict avoidance on her part and deception. It worries me and I don’t know if she is really addressing it

Hi Beagle, didn't want to leave you hanging.

The problem with avoidants (like me at times), we want to avoid the shame, even with our IC's. It's good you're seeing some progress. Hopefully her IC is a competent one and can help her with various techniques to calm herself through the shame spirals. From my experience the first thing I had to do was learn how to cope with the stress that came with looking at myself in all my gory realness. I'm glad you directed her to take it up with her IC. Dealing with her shame with you right now is likely overwhelming- what she did to you is the primary source of her shame.

Good luck, and sounds like you are being a very patient person.

Is there anything I can do to help my former WS or should I just leave it alone?

Hi all - I don't know how to handle this situation. I'm hoping wayward spouses can help me understand my ex-husband's perspective and make a suggestion on what can be done.

As a background, I am a betrayed spouse. My Dday was on November 2020. When I confronted my ex-husband about his affair, he refused to give up the other woman for our family that he decided to leave us 2 weeks after discovery. To make matters worse, he chose our daughter's birthday to go on vacation with his affair partner. 3 days later, he came back and moved out. He took his clothes, a tv, a computer, and half of our savings. The following months got worse. He tried to hit the reset button. He ignored our family throughout Christmas (no calls or presents from him to our child). Instead, he chose to spend it with his affair partner, her son, and meet her extended family. After the holidays, he changed his phone number, stopped contact with almost all his friends and family, and took a traveling job out of state. We divorced. A lot of other things happened since then and I can't say he is in a better place. He doesn't have stability and is suffering from what I believe is severe depression caused by his infidelity.

So here is where I don't know what to do. Our daughter loves her dad (as she should), but he is not doing well. He has displayed some serious red flags that indicate he may harm himself. Aside from suicidal ideation. He updated his life insurance beneficiary to me. He started smoking again when he quit over 10 years ago when we got married. He is drinking which he never did because he is allergic to alcohol. He physically looks ill and has gained a lot of weight. He looks like he doesn't sleep anymore. Our daughter also keeps telling me that her dad's car is a mess. She says that it is filled with trash and smells like smoke and garbage. He surprised me last week when he decided to attend our daughter's therapy session. It was in this session the therapist asked him what has he been doing to help move forward because our well-being is important to help our daughter move forward. Unfortunately, my ex said that the only thing he does is work, play his video games, see our daughter, go home, sit around, have drinks, and sleep. The therapist said that we all need support and it's okay to reach out for help. This was a rough session for him because my daughter also took this as an opportunity to ask her dad why he left. He said that he left because he got scared when the affair was exposed so he ran away. There was a moment where we were both left in the room alone. I saw him take his glasses off a few times, heard sniffles, and can see him wipe tears off his eyes. He was crying... The only time I've seen my ex-husband cry was when his grandmother died 17 years ago when we were still dating. After that therapy session, I thanked my ex-husband for speaking the truth because it must have been very difficult to admit why he left and shed light on his current day-to-day life. After saying that, he said that when our daughter is older, he will just "leave this world." I asked him to explain, and he said he would just end his life. This isn't the first time he has said this. A few weeks after our divorced was finalized, he said that he doesn't know what he is doing anymore, that he really messed up, that she (the other woman) is a mistake and isn't worth all the pain he caused our family. Because of this, he said he believes he is a piece of crap that doesn't deserve anything good in his life. It's all very concerning.

I read a little bit about the suffering the wayward spouses go through; the guilt, shame, and difficulty of accepting what they have done. It has been 16 months and my ex-husband still cannot look or speak to me in person. You can see the guilt ooze out of his body when he comes to pick up our daughter. I am not angry anymore. Our marriage is over and I've accepted that. I just want to be able to work together, but it's really hard to do that when he is going through his own internal conflict. I wish he would forgive himself. At the same time, I know I struggle with boundaries. I know that I am not "his person" anymore and I can't control his actions. I stood ground when he told me some of this suicidal ideation and asked him to seek help with a professional. I also suggested that he seek support with his partner (his AP turned girlfriend). This was not said with ill intent. I meant this as someone he can go to for support because a good partner should always be there to help support the other when needed. He said that he doesn't talk to her about these things. I didn't know what to say after that. As a result, I decided to inform his parents. Again, not out of ill intent, but so they are aware just in case something happens. His elderly parents miss him, but he won't contact them aside from the occasional text message that says "Hi mom - I am fine. I love you." If they decide to do an intervention, then they can do that. I really don't know if there is anything I can do. It would be terrible if he hurt himself. It would devastate our daughter and our families. I also know that deep down, I will hate myself for not trying everything I could. Waywards, do you think there is anything else I can do or is this really all I can do?

Hi Charz,

As a WS who had a plan, was ready to execute it and only held off because of concerns for my children, I can relate to what your xWH is going through. The pit of shame is real. While he's deep in there, there's no real joy in life or will to live.

Is your ex in IC? If he's really this bad, he really could be a candidate for hospitalization. That would be on those closest to him to facilitate though. His parents and GF would be in the best position to do that.

As far as what your responsibility is, I think you've done enough already. You've let his parents know and voiced your concerns to him. Beyond that, and checking in with his parents from time to time, there's nothing you can really do. He's not your responsibility anymore. As the father of your children, of course you're concerned, but pushing him into IC is not your job. He has to want it for himself.

His parents really are the only ones who can commit him, and it sounds like he may benefit from that.

If it were my ex, I would keep in touch, check in with him when parenting stuff comes up, and continue to recommend IC. I would continue keeping in touch with grandparents and alert them if you're hearing anything more alarming. Other than that, it's not your responsibility. He's not your person, at most he's an acquaintance, and doing more (like finding him an IC) goes beyond your responsibilities toward him as your ex.

I wish you the best. My suicide plans really shocked and hurt my BH. Are you in IC? What are you doing to care for yourself?

If you were to divorce your BS and remarry, would you tell your new spouse that the reason you got a divorce was because you cheated on your ex?

I'm not sure why this question is important to me at this point. Maybe I wonder if the lying to avoid shame would continue with someone new or am I simply the lucky one.

Yes I would tell them.

To WS, can I please ask, how long did it take for you to desire your BS again once the affair was over, and did any of the usual post DDay arguments you would have had interfere or delay this?

My WW has gone NC After nearly 3yrs post DDay, but there is zero desire from her anymore, our sex life is virtually nil, and there is very little physical contact anymore, I am just thinking that she no longer desires me at all, and definitely not in the way she desired the AP.

Spent the day reading this thread and some great info from everyone.

My story is in this link:
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums/?tid=655382&HL=79703

Asking the WS if anyone has just denied, denied, denied and how was you BS ever able to get you to come clean? I don't think my WW will ever come clean and until I actually walk away I don't think she has any reason too. She knows I am miserable and she sees that I am distant almost all the time. I don't think she is a candidate for R considering she has seen me struggling and would rather just sweep it under the rug and live in a miserable marriage. Also she is a serial cheater that got caught.

I know I will never know everything but I just feel I need some closure even if I leave. I just want to know the truth so I can get on with my life whether that is in R or D.

To Struggling CJ:

how long did it take for you to desire your BS again once the affair was over, and did any of the usual post DDay arguments you would have had interfere or delay this?

This is a big and loaded question. And difficult to answer on behalf of your WW. I can speak to my own experience only, you WW's may differ.

It took me until about recently before I actually desired my BH simply because I desired him. I'm about 2.5yrs out from DDay. First year, hysterical bonding and giving him what he wanted. I was terrified he would D me, out me to our wider social circle, destroy my life at work, etc. Second year, he was depressed, I was depressed and anxious and we were barely getting by. Start of second year, I was fed up with the escalating rage and told him it was IC or I would D him. He started IC to manage his anger and things calmed down between us. We learned better ways of expressing hurt and anger that weren't abusive.

Now that we're in the 3rd year, we've been in MC almost 9mos and are making progress with our communication. I would say things are better now than they have been in the previous 9ish years of our M. BH has a very different opinion (of course), but we are both growing as people and slowly growing back together.

It took us about 2.5years to stabilize the relationship to the point where I could consider making love without guilt, shame and self disgust. It took me years of working through shame, baggage, body images, abusive FOO and disgust at myself for what I did before I could be comfortable exploring what I liked and what I needed from BH in bed. Before, it was all about pleasing him, manipulating him into staying, pleasing him so he wouldn't leave. Now that I've been doing the work, it is actually more enjoyable and I have more fun with anticipation, as it's something we both can look forward to!

This is a very recent development though- I was in a deep fog and funk from January until about early March where I didn't want to be touched, didn't want to be more than held. Didn't feel safe opening myself up to BH. It also coincided with me starting a new IC and going through all the CPTSD from my abusive childhood. BH also openly and graciously forgave me mid-February, which truly touched me. He didn't have to offer it. Yet he gave it. For that, I have a ton of gratitude.

All that to say, there's many things that factor into a WS's desire for their BS. Relational, emotional, body image, physical... it goes on. The anger of the BS, resentment, disgust, disrespect, all of that definitely close off the WS (especially WW's IMO) from feeling safe enough to open up sexually.

Hi Linc,

Asking the WS if anyone has just denied, denied, denied and how was you BS ever able to get you to come clean?

We waywards certainly love denial. Most of us will keep our mouths shut as much as and as long as we can. I know I denied, diminished, gaslit and TT'd my BH for almost 6months after DDay.

In the end, the only one who can "make" the WS come clean is the WS themselves. They have to get to a point where they despise the lies, are sick of themselves and decide to change their behavior themselves for themselves.

Most never reach this point (requires introspection, which us WS's hate). So, for those, they have to have a consequence they fear more than the consequences of telling the truth.

In your case, if you're miserable, she's not cooperative, what do you have to lose by filing for D? If you do file, have the paperwork written up before hand. Otherwise, it's just a lame ultimatum she won't take seriously.

Others here have also done the D paperwork and asked for a polygraph or they proceed with the D.

Both are options to consider.

As always great introspect from MI.
Linc, i am a fellow Bh. There are 2 lines of thought on this subject.
1. A ww to tell you enough to heal but not all the details
2. Tell you everything
I know I will never know everything about my ww 16 month affair. She will go to her grave with those details.
Its a real mind fuckery. BUT here’s the problem
There are men on this forum who have gotten every detail and the vast majority are divorced. It’s just a insurmountable mountain. One of them have been very helpful in advising me on this subject as to the ins and outs. Knowing every detail will certainly end your marriage, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I chose the other path. I know enough to move forward. Her ACTIONS tell me she’s a changed woman. I choose this path for ME, not my ww, not my kids, not my grandkids. Staying married is my easiest path in life, a wonderful life. I see my grandson everyday, there’s no split holidays, birthdays, my daughters wedding to plan some day etc.
Do what is best for you my friend.
There are no easy path’s. The scar will always be there whether you leave or not.

Hey MI. Thanks for your response. I really appreciate WW being on here and helping everyone get through this. It can't be easy. Yeah I think filing is the only way to see if I will ever get the admission of the affairs. I have threatened it but as you said those are just words. I think she realizes that I am weak and will stay because of my family. I am assuming if she ever comes clean she will have to deal with that fall out and as long as she denies it doesn't matter what proof I have she can always fall back on she did nothing wrong. At some point I need to just file and walk away.

Humbled, I agree with everything you said. And I realize I will never get option 1. I will never know everything. And as you said I am not sure I want to know "everything." I don't need to know every act that was committed but I do need something. I do need an admission of what was going on. When did it start, when did it end, why did it start, why did it end. What happened at a 1,000 foot level in the affairs. Without knowing a lot of those things my mind just creates its own story. I think I know of 3 affairs and possibly a 4th. The new one is nothing more then seeing her phone and she blocked a boyfriend from over 20 years ago in Facebook. The only reason to block someone is you don't want to see their posts (he doesn't really post) or you don't want to get messages from him anymore....which means you were communicating with him. At this point it looks like over the last 4 years she had 6-12 month affairs and then moved on to someone else. And I just need to know when the first and figure out what happened. Were there more before the first one I know about. I am rambling on and I know I will never get the answers I want.

I assume she will take everything to the grave and as long as she doesn't tell me anything she can always deny when it gets out. When we get a D she will be able to say she didn't do anything wrong and I just wanted to leave. She doesn't care enough about me to give me the truth. She only cares about herself and her image. And Humbled, I completely understand why you made your decision and it's the reason I am still here today. I don't want to see my kids only on the weekend. They grow up so quick and right now I don't want to miss out. This all just sucks.

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this question, but here goes.

If you are or were at some point in reconciliation, were there times during the first few months that you made slipups? Like said something you shouldn't have that at first may have seemed normal, but hurt your BS? I ask this because my wedding anniversary was a few days ago and my wife asked me if I wanted to do anything. That triggered me and I then said some hurtful things. Now I'm left wondering if that was an honest mistake on her part, or an attempt to rugsweep.