SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Wow, the stories here! I discovered an EA last September. We went through TT. It hurt bad because it was based on WS sharing intimate details about her frustrations with our relationship that she didn't share with me for years. That one seemed to be the AP trying to deduce my WS and WS responding just enough to get her ego fed, but keeping ASAP at a distance. For four months we struggled and I kept asking about an incident that happened two years ago. The second DDay was in January when I found out the one from two years ago was an EA where WS was actively engaging in texts about sex and spending a life with someone I thought was my best friend. When the APs BS discovered it two years ago it stopped and I was told that the AP had "out of the blue" proposed sex to my WS who put her straight. She lied about it and deceived me for two and a half hears, four months of that during false R from the more recent one. the whole time telling me she understood how damaging lying and TT was. Crying and swearing my gut was wrong and I knew everything. It's maddening.

So, after 8 years together and two known EAs, I'm struggling with feeling I know the truth. How many EAs are later revealed to be PAs, too? And if there are two in the last two years, can I assume there were more during the first six? Ugh. How do I trust when she was so good at lying? I, too am bracing myself for the reveal of a PA and more EAs.

She's doing what I've asked, after a separation following the second DDay. I follow the saying that when someone makes you an option you remove yourself from the equation. She chose to stay and work on herself and the relationship. We are in IC and MC. She's struggling with balancing her needs that we're never expressed before, the problems she had in our relationship and meeting my needs to heal in the relationship. It's difficult but progress happens, if slowly.

I have read that an EA is more damaging than a PA, but the combination of both is the most damaging. We read Not Just Friends and it was helpful. I'm such an emotional person who prizes relationships that are genuine and authentic. This changes everything, as it not only revealed betrayal with others, but deception emotionally throughout by her lack of emotional genuineness with me. It's so tough.

So...back yo my questions. How often do BSs discover that the EA turned PA? If it never really did, when does that suspicion go away? What are the odds these are the only two?

Oh peoplepleaser, I can feel your pain and confusion. The not knowing can sometimes feel worse than knowing. It makes you nuts. Of course there are no numbers on how many EAs are actually PAs but in my case, I did find out that the EA was physical. And like many others the number of times that they had sex magically jumped from 2 to many more. The only reason I feel comfortable with knowing how long it went on is b/c I was there when H met AP for the first time, since it was the first time I met her too. Otherwise I'd be questioning nonstop.

At this point, all you can do is to watch your WS's behavior and communicate your feelings to her. You know that. So hard to do consistently when you feel like you might be being duped though! If she hasn't fessed up by now, it's likely that she won't--and the crazy making part is that there's a 50/50 chance she's telling you the truth. Follow your gut, though as you know it can be hard to distinguish gut feeling from trauma-based danger scanning.

Keep talking to her. The more you do the more you will be able to gauge how genuine she is being. I'm right there with you wondering whether I'm still being duped, but talking always makes me feel better.

What's so scary is that I read so many stories about how people find out years later. And i had to discover both and investigate to find out the extent of both. She doesn't understand that while revealing the worst of everything dye has ever find behind my back without provocation, specific questions or my own discovery will hurt greatly, it would eventually go a long way toward my ability to begin rebuilding trust. My gut tells be there is more i don't know. But I can only speculate about what that is. And her response is the same as when she was lying before, " you will always feel that way." That may be true, but the nagging is strong. And it's coming from my gut. I don't know how many more lies I can take before I break. Last time we separated and almost ended it. Ugh.

Peoplepleaser, I'm in your shoes too. I feel like there is so much more to his EA than he tells me, especially since he failed a polygraph, but has sworn to no end that he is being truthful. I don't know what to believe anymore. What's been really bothering me lately is that he doesn't talk to me about really anything but the kids and work, nothing intimate at all, but yet he seemed to never run out of things to text/call EA partner about :(.

Jls3020, that's such a bad place to be. I've considered a polygraph. It's just so costly. And to be honest, I need her truth. I'm tired of the energy of investigating. I shouldn't have to. To be honest, my WS has had times of good disclosure it's just been intermittent and during times of hiding other lies. She was very remorseful about the first one I discovered, which was the second one that happened. She wrote out her timeline and gave it to me, including details ibwoukdntbgavevknown otherwise. There are parts missing still for me. I get that As are illogical in nature. But it's not the actual acts that don't make sense, it's the nature if disclosure and her response to the telling of them. When she made the timeline she was still lying about the first one. She told me my guy was fear because I knew everything and cried that she wished she had more to tell me so I could trust her. All the while lying about the first one. Telling me I'd never be satisfied with the truth. Ugh.

But she says she didn't go over there. I think she did. I think she tried. There are lots of reasons. The look on her face the day after as she told me she didn't want to fight anymore--days before I discovered it. The circumstances that day, when she told me she had to finish something up before meeting Kevin a parking lot to unlock my car to get my keys out...after not responding to my calls and texts for over 20 minutes when she carries her phone everywhere. Two texts she claims are never sent two days after she supposedly ended it, the last the afternoon before I discovered it. Too fishy. And a response made in anger about her behavior during our separation in which she said, "I'm good to go at a distance, but when it came to action and they expected me to touch them I just couldn't do it." Seems to me she at least tried. And is "protecting" me from her actions.

And this resistance to sharing about the one from years ago. Telling me she doesn't remember. Giving me vague answers in response to what I discovered or others told me rather than her story about what she did. Telling me she acted like an asshole, that she probably did what they say, but can't recall any of it. Her continued defenses when I'm hurting make me feel like she's on the other side of it or in front if it instead of next to me looking at it as a team. I've told her that stevedore this to both of us. But until she meets me where I am, it feels like defense and it stinks of fear from the whole truth.

That said, she's talking. Going to IC and MC. Setting good boundaries with friends and family, in ways she never did before. She gets that they were affairs and they were damaging. She's angry at herself and feels bad for causing me pain. She apologizes. She just can't help but defend what ages doing and has done when I share my feelings and thoughts. And it hurts. She said tonight that she feels like all the work she's doing isn't making an impact because I'm angry I still don't have her truth. That I get upset when she can't respond well to my concerns or pain. It's maddening. And the whole while I'm thanking her, telling her I feel more connected when we have a good talk and showing it through affection, and working hard to respect her space and not bring up every little detail or every time I'm dealing with mind movies...because that would be constant at this point.

Sorry. Big rant. I'm just exhausted.

I discovered what I believe to be an EA in April, confronted my spouse who told me they were "just friends". I had cell phone records of someone in Mass going back since last June with regular calls several times a week, some as long as 2 hours, mostly 45 minute conversations. I found his facebook page that did not say he was married and in the "about" section has "interested in women". Things have completely deteriorated, I'm on Zanax. Has denied everything. I was suspicious because he said he wanted to go out with the guys, and at 4 am he wasn't home, I called him and it was dead quiet and he arrived home at 5 am and no apology nothing. Then I pulled the phone bills. We have been barely talking and yes, the same exact thing how can he talk to her for two hours and have NOTHING to say to me on the phone for 5 minutes?

This denial and blaming me - all the things that I've done wrong in the relationship that has driven him away he says... I asked him to get a cover for his phone because he said he put a password on it because it was sending messages to work people. He said he ws going to get a new phone, anyway. I texted him that we need to recomit to ourselves and do it without outside interference. And he response was well I am here - when he came home that evening. I pulled the phone log and I see that he was still talking to her in April. But I am not sure but I think he may have blocked my ability to pull his phone log because it is in his name although I have a phone on his plan because the last couple of days of phone logs were nothing but my calls to him and no other work related calls. He get's a LOT of work related calls.

I really don't know what to do. I want with all my heart to believe that this is a friend, but my gut is telling me that he wouldn't have needed to keep this friendship "private".

shiftingsand,

I feel your pain! I was there a few months back and it hurts so bad. Let me first say that I'm so very sorry that this has happened to you. It is so devastating and debilitating, especially when your WS is resistant or even attacking in their response to your discovery. You don't deserve that, and nothing you ever did made you deserve his deceit.

One of my big regrets was not investigating hard core at the time of DDay 1. I recommend pulling everything you can. There are programs that will recover deleted information from text, email and websites. You can petition the phone company for a log of texts (just dates and times, unfortunately, but it's something). My WS accidentally demolished her phone as I was downloading a program to retrieve deleted messages...fishy. I'm still so upset about it.

If you have a gut feeling, follow it. If I could do it all over again: DO NOT let him know what you are finding out until you have all the information you can get, until he demonstrates remorse, and until he tells you about his involvement on his own. My WS responded with TT and minimization, and then I hit DDay 2 about an EA from years prior. It was devastating, but worse was the TT and outright lies. If I'd had all the information ahead of time and not revealed what I was discovering along the way she would not have been aware of what to hide and how to hide it (so I still suffer from suspicion at times), and I would have had information to prove she was telling me the worst about the truth. As it was, I set myself up to be a victim of TT and I still don't believe what she says is true while I wait for the information she promised me too long ago. Much of the information I could have gathered immediately is now lost forever and I'm stuck debating on a polygraph.

Also, from what you described it sounds like he's not invested in R. In the R forum is a thread called something like "Before you say R." Read it. It is a great guide for knowing when it is safe to work on the relationship WITH them. In the meantime, I recommend reading about the 180 in the FAQ for BSs. Just saying, "I'm here," implies that he considers you lucky HE stayed. In addition to attacking you (gaslighting, fog, rugsweeping...) for his personal, independent choice that has nothing to do with the M. Of course, he'll say it was an option for him because he was unhappy, almost all do. However, there is something wrong with him if that was an option no matter what was happening in the relationship. Without serious personal work and introspection he will continue to justify his behaviors by villifying you. You don't deserve any more hurt from him, which is why I recommend the 180 as it protects you from more hurt.

You deserve more than he's willing to give right now, it seems. If you believe you deserve more, then demand more. It's very difficult. It's tough to keep information from them, it's heartbreaking to watch them watch you cry and fall apart and do nothing, or worse attack you. It's painful to see the light of love in their eyes leave to be replaced with hatred. Please try to remember that the hatred and holding back is a reflection of how they feel about themselves, worthless and ashamed. It's easier to blame you than to face the worst of themselves.

Hugs to you.

Thank you People Pleaser.

It just hit me hard - what I am doing. I'm trying to do the 180 and backslide yesterday - badly.

But, I just realized what a little shit he is being. I do not have his password to his phone and when requested it (twice) and he flatly denied my request saying "you can not control me", "You will just be all over me", and when I said I was trying to establish trust in him - he said, "You will never trust me again, anyway." The phone is in his name. Yeah, he is still putting money in the bank so we can pay the mortgage, yeah he is coming home - so what? Is he remoseful? He is playing the role that he is the hurt victim. He just denies his bad behavior - like last night. I was out on the deck having my last smoke for the night and he just goes right up to bed. When I say to him - what you don't say goodnight anymore? He says, "I was in the bathroom and you are going to bed right?" Then laughs. He can't even acknowledge his behavior... anyway, I'm so done with it at the moment. My denial is so evident right now. It's a good thing I have my first IC session for today. I think I'm finally starting to wake up! for god sake!

You know the other day, I was thinking that I wish I had some concrete proof of the nature of their relationship - like photos or texts, but you know having already seen almost a year worth of calls to her - does it even really matter? That he hasn't been transparent should be evidence enough shouldn't it?

Anyway, thanks for listening to me rant and find myself, people pleaser.

Thanks for listening people pleaser.

So glad to find you guys! It feels good to know I'm not alone and there are so many stories on here that sound like my own. My WH has been having an EA for the past year with a former co-worker who is half his age and is married. I've had a few D-days but the main one being 3 months ago. We've been living in limbo land as he has not severed all ties with her.

I wish I had found this months ago, it would have helped tremendously.

Ugh. It's hard to read these posts because I relate so completely. The never knowing if the EA was more, almost wishing that it had been so there can just be some closure...

My bf of 7 years met a younger girl while away for a 5 week outdoor field class. They met almost every night for two weeks drinking and "talking." He told me the day after he got home. First it was "She kissed me once" then it was "oh, it happened three times" then it was "I thought about doing more but always stopped." Ew. Yeah right, I think. They were alone, drunk, and stupid. Sounds like a recipe for a PA if I ever heard one. But, you guys know how it goes, deny deny deny it ever went further. I contacted her out of frustration and she claims the same. I can only assume they planned the story, but who really knows anything for sure.

It's been a year now. Details like him hugging her, holding her hand, them texting to plan where to meet and drink slowly came out over the duration of our attempt to repair. Strangely, him holding her hand as they rode in the van home hurts the most. He texted me at the same time to tell me how much he missed me and couldn't wait to see me. It's hard to understand how anyone could be so cruel and confused.

It's been little over 2 months of D-day and he still won't talk about it. Former divorced co-worker which WS told her all sorts of lies about me. I had breast cancer he wasn't there to support me throughout any of it but supported her because her father or some relative had cancer. Thousands and thousands of texts, phone calls. I He text her the other night and I found it on his iPad think he's hoping to start it up again. I left him today and has been sending text after text for me to come home!!! For what more abuse!!

My SO has finally stepped up to the plate and is doing some reflecting and is also reading "Just Friends" it has really opened his eyes to exactly what I have been trying to tell him all along about his EA's. We have conversations now regarding what he has read and this is in itself a double edged sword. He is going thru an awakening of his own as to how broken he was and it's making a huge impact. On the flip side all of the articles on the slippery slope have made him worry now about how I react to inappropriate boundaries of people that I may come in contact with! I am pretty sure he is defecting and is zeroing in on what I might do instead of what he did !!!!!! It's sure a process. I am adamant about returning the conversation back to his behaviour and actions during the time he was involved in all of his flirting but every now and then his insecurities come out and he tries tell me how worried he us about what I "might" do if the opportunity arose..... Thoughts anyone.????

Oh don't be fooled! First one was EA, 2nd was PA so they can't be trusted. Once they prove who they are, believe them.

My WH had a 5 month EA (waiting for other shoe to drop also). During those 5 months he was verbally abusive to me for the first time in a 18 year marriage. He has decided to leave me 10 months ago, according to him, and was working up to letting me know. I think he was a coward and wanted me to leave him, now that he is getting his wish and I want to leave him, he is begging for a chance and doing what he thinks he should do to fix this. I am just so angry, I can not see passed the EA.

The getting out of our bed at night at 1am after making me cry and emailing her a beautiful letter about her being the woman of his dreams. Leaving me sitting at home alone on my 50th birthday and meeting up with her to have a drink with the work group. How do you not hate a person for that.

Been on this site about a month but just found this thread.

My WH had an EA with his former girlfriend from the beginning of our relationship I now realize. First DD two years ago he supposedly ended it with NC but...literally three days later I was in the hospital fighting for my life on a vent and he reached out to her for support. I discovered that they were not NC about 5 months later when he told me she had terminal cancer. I should have demanded NC again and stood by it. But I didn't. I requested transparency which I never got. This past January I found a text where he told her he had been having "lots of dreams" about her

Then in May I found a text to an entirely different OW where he told her to "dream of" him holding her and kissing her. I confronted him immediately. He spilled the whole story and went NC immediately. I monitor his phone so I know he has kept to that.

Then the end of August I found a string of text messages to ANOTHER OW that were fairly explicit. He says he must have done it in his sleep. Sleep or not, he did it and it was based on something. Again, NC.

We are now in MC and working on R. He has had NC with the first OW (ex girlfriend) for about a month now. Yeah, still terminal but alive.

I told him today that he has not offered ANY information, only affirmed the things I have confronted him with and that I do not for one minute believe I have the whole story. All the information. He just looked at me in disbelief.

It is hard knowing that through the entirety of our relationship he has been EA with OW#1 and in denial of it. It is really hard knowing that it came to light TWO YEARS AGO and is just now being dealt with appropriately.

I don't know when I will be able to believe him or believe in him again.

I am new to this site but glad it exists. I told my story on my profile page but was glad to find the EA topic. Here's the saddest part, my 60 yr old husband tried to have an EA with a 35 yr old woman. She was friendly not flirty in her replies to his one text to her. I know no future texts even occurred because as soon as I discovered the 1 text, I backed up his phone on my computer without his knowledge. When confronting him I got the blame because I have been emotionally distant since menopause, his dad was dying, job problems etc. I will never say 100% but I am pretty certain he has never cheated in 23 yrs of marriage since he is always home and that this one text was out of character for him, yet I am having a real hard time trusting him, forgiving him, etc. not to mention my total lack of respect for him for actually trying to hit on a woman half his age. In addition, it was his brother who encouraged him in the first place. He met this girl at the brother's house a few times and the brother cheats on his wife.

No one has posted here in a while so I hope someone sees this.

I am struggling. Long story short, husband had an EA last year. D-Day was in July 2013. Moved on. The other woman kept contacting him. I would trigger over and over. Finally things came to a head in April 2014. I told her husband, in hopes she would stop contacting him. Everyone got involved, me, my husband, her, her husband. Her husband wanted the proof I had, I was out of town, in the days it took for me to get home, he rescinded and said he didn't want it because he talked to his wife and they got it sorted. In the meantime she told my husband she was "sorry" for trying to reach out to him and she wouldn't anymore. Fine, we all agreed no one would talk to anyone ever again.

Boom! Out of nowhere, the other woman messages me this year in July 2014. Said it was a PA. I have no proof of anything. The way I found out was the excessive amount of text messages they were sending (primarily her to my husband). No messages on FB, no emails. And he erased all the incriminating messages on his phone. So, I have no idea what went on. I have her reaction to him telling her their "friendship" was over. It was dramatic. And I have the desperate messages she sent to him in March before I finally messaged her husband in April. But nothing that said anything about it being physical. So this really came out of left field.

I want to move on but I am still pissed she messaged me. Out of the blue. Why, why be so evil and vindictive. I don't know if it's true. She said it so I am inclined to think it's not. But what if it is. I will NEVER know. I am now obsessed with her. I check her FB, her linkedin, everything. It is not good. My husband and I are fine otherwise. I don't talk to him about this, I don't see the point I guess.

I want to not care. Because does it really matter other than the fact he didn't tell me? Not really, either way he still had an affair no matter what kind, it still hurt but I still want to be with him.

Why am I letting this person dictate my life and thoughts right now? If she had never messaged me, yes we may still be recovering from the aftermath of it all but that message was almost like a fatal blow. It almost ended the marriage. Obviously I am still not over it. But what else is there to do? We are doing positive things in our marriage but I can't get this out of my head.

Reading on here it seems like other people have later found out an EA was a PA. So that makes me nervous too. I just would love for her to reach out one more time because then we could get a restraining order. We already did a NC and filed a report with the police (required in our state). It's like I am begging for her to do this so we can destroy her like I feel she has destroyed me. I never told her husband she reached out AGAIN because I wanted the NC more. And she monitors his FB so she would intercept any message anyway. Sometimes I regret that decision though and should have told him anyway. I think I was also scared he might confirm what she said. So many things to sort out.

Feel a little better to have it all out there. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this.

I understand your struggle, and have similar issues with my wife's "EA".

No issues with OM trying to contact her (at least to my knowledge). My issue is reading about all these EA's that people discover, and they all turn out to be PA! All of them, with very few if any exceptions!

WW's EA was long term, but it very slowly grew from work friend to inappropriate. My decision to believe and trust has been based on her positive changes towards me, and overall attitude improvement.

But the gut still says she was capable of deception and betrayal for so long. Maybe she's capable of burying a few more truths.

Thing is I would have forgiven almost anything if she was completely honest. But if I find she lied about PA the marriage will end.

OW wants to wreck your marriage. But your gut says it might be true. Talk to him about the OW's PA text and how it makes you feel. And decide now what your choice will be if he never was completely honest.

All the best

I too am dealing with an EA. My H and I have been married for 25 years. Many of our friends describe our marriage as the perfect couple until about 4 years ago. We met the OW through mutual friends. The OW has always been a better friend with my H than with myself. It went well for a year or so, even though the chemistry between the two was noticable to everyone but the two of them. Over the last two years the texting and phone calls have increased between OW and H to the tune of 20 - 50 a day. Most of the time it is just small talk and nothing of consequence. Except lately, they have been texting the little emotiocons with kisses and smilly faces and hugs, etc. H goes to her house to help her with projects all the time (she is single and needs help with maintenance on her house), sometimes her older daughters and granddaughter are home, other times they are not. I feel like he has pulled away from me emotionally. I also know for a fact that she is very suttle about it, but she makes little snide remarks about my just being jealous or insecure or that I am fake. What else she says I do not have a clue. I occassionaly check H's cell phone and read the messages. I never let him know when. I caught him deleting messages a while back and asked him why he would do that. He replied that he did not want me to take them wrong or get upset. Wow I said, why would you even say something that I would take wrong in the first place. He is constantly saying they are just friends. She tries to butter up to me when we go out together occassionally, but only while my H is around. Then she makes up things that I said when he is not around that never were said. I find myself having to defend things that never happend because he believes her. BTW, they have started a joke that I am his wife but she is his girlfriend. Not so far from the truth and definitley not so funny anymore.

He says he cannot just cut her out of his life, that he doesn't know how. I know this is an emotional affair. The sad part is though I know he still loves me. He says he does not want to lose our marriage but is not willing to cut her out of his life because they have not done anything. They are "just friends." I know if he has to give her up he will never forgive me for losing her "friendship." There is so much more that I could say, this is just the tip of the iceburg. I too am just waiting for the other shoe to drop. I am so afraid that it is going to happen.

Thought she was my Friend:

I too am dealing with an EA. My H and I have been married for 25 years. Many of our friends describe our marriage as the perfect couple until about 4 years ago. We met the OW through mutual friends. The OW has always been a better friend with my H than with myself. It went well for a year or so, even though the chemistry between the two was noticable to everyone but the two of them. Over the last two years the texting and phone calls have increased between OW and H to the tune of 20 - 50 a day. Most of the time it is just small talk and nothing of consequence. Except lately, they have been texting the little emotiocons with kisses and smilly faces and hugs, etc. H goes to her house to help her with projects all the time (she is single and needs help with maintenance on her house), sometimes her older daughters and granddaughter are home, other times they are not. I feel like he has pulled away from me emotionally. I also know for a fact that she is very suttle about it, but she makes little snide remarks about my just being jealous or insecure or that I am fake. What else she says I do not have a clue. I occassionaly check H's cell phone and read the messages. I never let him know when. I caught him deleting messages a while back and asked him why he would do that. He replied that he did not want me to take them wrong or get upset. Wow I said, why would you even say something that I would take wrong in the first place. He is constantly saying they are just friends. She tries to butter up to me when we go out together occassionally, but only while my H is around. Then she makes up things that I said when he is not around that never were said. I find myself having to defend things that never happend because he believes her. BTW, they have started a joke that I am his wife but she is his girlfriend. Not so far from the truth and definitley not so funny anymore.

He says he cannot just cut her out of his life, that he doesn't know how. I know this is an emotional affair. The sad part is though I know he still loves me. He says he does not want to lose our marriage but is not willing to cut her out of his life because they have not done anything. They are "just friends." I know if he has to give her up he will never forgive me for losing her "friendship." There is so much more that I could say, this is just the tip of the iceburg. I too am just waiting for the other shoe to drop. I am so afraid that it is going to happen.