SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Tallgirl,

As a woman you must believe in yourself. Like yourself. Love yourself. Invest into yourself. The totality of a 21st century woman’s financial life should not depend on her husband. No matter how little, a woman should add value to her family life.

Know what you will and will not tolerate. What your values are. Where your boundaries are. Be unswerving in your loyalty to yourself, to your well-being and what sort of relationship YOU want. Hold out for that. Honesty and integrity are too important to me and not important enough to the x. I love myself too much to live a life of lies. 890 days of lies to be exact.

Don’t be in Denial. Yes, I get it. As coping mechanisms go, denial is pretty effective. When hope fails, there is denial. Just be oblivious about your situation and your feelings about it. Poof! It never happened! We spackle over our life messes, because we’re invested. It’s hard to walk away from an investment, even a bad one. In fact (there’s some law in economics about it), the MORE you invest, the harder it is to walk away, even when you know you’re losing! So, naturally you just pretend the investment isn’t really that bad. If you want to get unstuck, you have to take a hard, unvarnished look at your reality.

I think staying for him is about him. Redemption, a public forgiveness and an acknowledgement that he is a changed man. He talks about love, it doesn't make sense to me

Mine too.

I think staying for him is about him. Redemption, a public forgiveness and an acknowledgement that he is a changed man. He talks about love, it doesn't make sense to me

Mine too.

Mine three.

I've filed for divorce, but even so, he wants/expects me to remarry him to start a whole new "pure" marriage because he is changed and *loves* me, always did, even during the 1,650 hours of alone time he spent with her, humping her/holding her/confiding in her during our 4 year marriage. WTH?

I may not being seeing this straight, but it doesn’t feel like denial. I think I am scared and you are right I have invested so much. I think there may be a small shred of hope as he is doing some good things. But the crater of pain and betrayal is so big that the hope doesn’t really have a chance.

Robbedoftrust, I read your post on another string. We have some similarities in our experience. I think your decision to D is wise.

I believe both of our WHs are delusional. You are new here , and I just wanted to say I am sorry you Have joined this club. You don’t deserve this. We understand the pain, the anger and the depth of the betrayal.

Big hug sweetie.

Big big hug to you too (gmc)

And why stop there. (Svon) (California) (self rescuer) (North) (sunny) (familyman) (Scarlett) (Thomas) (twisted) (ukgirl) (hopefull)

Thanks for the hug TallGirl🙏

I went back a few pages and saw that your H was "faithful" to his AP. ..my H " cut me off" for 22 months claiming ED ...when I asked him why he said it was "nasty" to sleep with 2 women concurrently 😲 in other words he was faithful to his AP...

He told his IC that he figured I could live without it...

That was 6 plus years ago...I consider myself 90% healed ... I will NEVER "get over it" but I am getting through it...

It truly has taken all this time to get to a place of acceptance...I also accept that I am a changed person now...I have boundaries in place and I no longer have a doormat on my back anymore! And this is when you find out who your true friends are!

Anyway it's another rainy Saturday morning ...I'll run my errands as usual because life goes on and forward motion has the best view! 👍

Peace everyone!!

I don't know if my WH's A qualifies as a LTA (it was 1.5 years with a one-night hook up 2 years earlier. Dday1 was 10/17 and Dday2 was a wonderful perfect year later on 10/18 - all with the same MCOW - and seems long-term for me) so please let me know if this isn't the right thread for me. I just read this and had to comment:

WH looked at me with a real loved up look in his eyes and I just got upset 1) acknowledging how long it had been since I had seen that look and 2) that that is how he would have been with his OW.

For a moment that I should have embraced, it was rather demotive for me, but later I realised it is because of the fear of being hoodwinked again, being drawn in to trust and let the walls go down.

I think I feel this almost everyday. I also realized the other day when my WH gave me a real compliment (as opposed to you look "nice" or something about how good a cook I am) I just about broke down in tears right then and there because I realized that: 1) he hadn't given me a real compliment like that in over 2 years, and 2) the whole time he was failing to compliment me I'm sure he was dishing out compliments to her left and right. That anger/disgust/fear of hoodwinking is too much sometimes...thanks for letting me vent and I apologize again if this isn't the thread for me.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 8:52 AM, March 11th (Monday)]

ThisIsSoLonely, of course this is the thread for you. I am so sorry that you are in so much pain. I just want to give you a big hug.

I'm sorry he didn't make you feel special. Did you share with him how you were feeling and why you cried? You have every right to feel that way. And you know what, you feel what you feel. The real value is the conversation that you can have with him afterwards. And, yes, it is ok to resent the fact that your husband had an A. and gave someone else what he should have given you.

You should feel cherished. I hope you can talk to him about this, he needs to know that this triggered you and help you through it. You deserve that...

Don't worry about venting, better out than in! It's safe here. And that was a mild vent compared to some of mine.

Thanks Tallgirl - He has been very open to talking about how I feel and trying to make me feel better. He is NOT good at saying much of anything unless I bring it up - about the best he can do is see me upset and say "what's wrong" or "you don't seem okay - what's upsetting you" which is a start as it's inviting conversation which is a lot more than he used to do (he was a rug sweeper like most of them it appears).

I think he is still SO VERY CAUGHT UP in himself and how all of this makes him feel that his feelings are still his go-to feelings that he has to overcome in order to engage in a conversation with me. Just yesterday I said something about how I know talking about this probably irritates you and his response, which was more insightful than I thought it would be, was:

Yes, it is irritating precisely because I KNOW we MUST talk about these things and I am the reason that we need to.

So - the realization that we need to talk about this stuff is there. No more rugsweeping. But it's still somewhat about him - but I know what he was trying to say...that WE need to talk about this so that I can feel better and so that we can try to work through things (the conversation headed there eventually) but it forces him to feel shame and guilt and anger at himself. He swears he's not angry at me at all about these conversations...so who knows.

We talk a lot more, and in all honesty, I thought he would never put this amount of work into this. After d-day2 I felt like he would rather flay me alive than look at his own actions and accept them for what they are, so I'm never sure what's coming next.

I am working on my triggers in my own way - I want to overwrite bad with good (not forget about it - just make a new memory that is a good one - more recent that I can focus on instead of going down the rabbit hole) so sometimes I don't say anything to him about them. I want to deal with them on my own - make my own happiness sometimes, you know!

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 10:31 AM, March 13th (Wednesday)]

ThisIsSoLonely - good key - yes it is...

I am tweaking at a few things you said.

- he is not good at talking about this. - He needs to. Flat out. He did this, if he doesn't understand how you feel, or how you react, and where are you today (I know for me it is different every day for me) how can he work to be safe for you. He needs to ask, verify, reverify, change approaches.

- he is caught up in how he feels. My first reaction is who the fuck cares because he did this. The more reasonable reaction is - yes you have feelings, but go talk to the IC. it is NOT NOT NOT just about him. An IC can help him deal with this. His primary job is to be safe for you and make the M work if you are both working to R.

- shame and anger - they have a place, but he has to get to a point of moving to become a person who doesn't have shame and anger, and being safe with himself - but again, this is not just about him - he needs IC. And there are ton of podcasts on shame and anger. Check out Renee Brene's Ted talks - she has a tonne of books too. Her site has one on trust - very good. listened to them on the weekend.

- I'm never sure what is coming next. If this is not a positive statement which I'm thinking it is not. you shouldn't have to "sweat" what today is bringing. He had the affair. He has to help you feel safe, he has to do the work EVERY DAY. He has to own and fix is own shit. This is not your problem. I'd watch this, if this continues you are not in R and it is time to rethink.

- building new memories to replace old ones. My husband says this to me all the time. and frankly it upsets me. I see what you mean. So let me put my view out there. The old memories and the hurt and the pain are part of you, and you are changed already. replacing the old with the new is kinda rug sweeping. You have to put the old memories intheir place - I guess be either acceptance or forgiveness, call it what you prefer. You can't replace them. You can add new memories that are good, and you can enjoy them - you should. but the old ones don't go away.

It's funny, I just had an IC session and your post touched on much of what we talked about.

Please remember, you are the betrayed. Your husband needs to own his shit and drive the work. I am glad he is getting there but it has to come out and you have to talk about it.

My counsellor called me out - my husband was looking at me the other day, I could tell he was trying to connect to me. I was just looking at him, thinking you are cheating bastard. the counsellor asked me why I didn't tell him. I didn't want to hurt his feelings, and I may have cried. What I did was rug sweep the moment and move on - I lost an opportunity to deal with the pain.

So, in a way she has told us both - you have a moment of pain - talk about it, put it out there and work through it. I imagine it will come back on me later.

She also told me a bunch of other stuff, and wow, Still reeling. But this post is about you, so I hope that this at least gives you another perspective to digest.

From another - yes, totally agree, this is so lonely.

TG

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 2:37 PM, March 13th (Wednesday)]

Tallgirl - it's funny because that's the thing about IC..they are all different. I have talked about all these things in IC and it's not just about him - it's about both of us. Like it or not, if I am even considering R (I have not committed to that yet and I'm thinking that I really probably can't), I have to approach this as "us" not just me (in fact, that's what got us to where we are now - it wasn't us, it was him and him alone), so I can't force him to change his thinking. I can tell him what I am okay with and what I'm not, but if I rush something it likely won't come from a place of genuineness. Just like he can't "force" me to "get over this" I can't force him to magically become more mindful. I can tell him what I need and see if he can manage it (and I can - and should IMO - do the same as this isn't a monarchy and I've just become Queen). Even the most successful WS on here all say it took time. Well IDK if I can give him that time but I'm honest about it - that's the best I can do.

Maybe I didn't explain it right - he is in IC 1 time per week and he (to his credit - which I give little these days) is a "thinker" and what I mean is I will say something and sometimes it will come up a week or two later, and it's clear he's been thinking about it during that time. I'm quick - it's a problem - I want answers/decisions/solutions right here and right now, and I am trying my best to wrap my thick head around the fact that this doesn't work that way.

Maybe when I wrote this I was seeing things too much through my eyes - 5 months ago he simply clammed up. When I would talk he would listen and wouldn't get angry, but he would say very little. He was wallowing in his own self-hatred. That much was clear. Looking at me and at the OBS (he works with him and he was a friend - sigh) made him feel so filled with guilt and shame it was obvious. Now he's talking like 20% of the time instead of 5% so it's an improvement, but what he says is really different now - he's thinking about things differently - I don't know how to explain it - he's trying. I almost feel bad for him sometimes, but other times I want to kick him in the teeth.

I'm trying not to expect magic. I'm trying not to expect immediate results...and honestly if I got them I think I would be one of the people in the general forum saying "he's doing everything right but IDK if I want to do this anymore" so heck if I know what is happening. He is different now - that's for sure. Maybe he's a better actor. Maybe he's as genuine as a block of solid gold...I don't know but I'm sitting back doing my thing biding my time. If when my contract is up next year I still feel this way, I've decided that I will definitely look for work elsewhere and leave. That will be 18 months from d-day and that will be well long enough (if I'm still even here by then).

Trust me I'm not defending him here. He fucked up royally and there are days I just despise him to the point I really don't want to go home. The "I'm never sure what is coming next" was actually meant to be a positive. Before it was easy to determine - the same old bullshit as the day before. Now, he could be happy or sad or a bunch of stuff inbetween, so the only consistency is that he seems to be more mindful of what has happened than ever before. It's like night and day. And I'm not so sure I want him driving the work on "us" just yet, seeing as he's crashed "us" several times now - he's got his hands full with himself. So long as he's working on himself that's all I really want right now, so that I can decide if I am willing/able to try with him again. If I do decide to try to move this forward I expect a 50/50 share in the "work" going forward as I think that's a healthy place to be - but we're not even close to that now.

So I didn't mean to make you lapse into bad thoughts about things. I'm just frustrated as I want this to be over one way or the other. I'm just tired of giving a crap about it.

My reclaiming places is definitely not rug sweeping - it's quite the opposite. I am some one who attaches a great deal to things and places (IDK why but I always have) and some of the places "they" went were places I liked and I want to reclaim them for me (not just my house but a lot of places). Before I changed my attitude I was just wallowing and miserable everywhere (I think they went there, or I wonder if they went there - fact is they didn't go much of anywhere but the mind can create all kinds of f-ed up scenarios). I got really sick of it and sick of myself. I've had a year and a half to wallow and cry and I want to be free of it and the only person who can do that is me. I can either cower and hide and let it bother me or I can take "my places" back. So much like most of my house, when I go to a restaurant that I like that I think they may have been at or drive down a street I'm guessing they went down together, I think about them being there and how I refuse to let them take it from me. I enjoyed it before dammit and I will again. It comes from a place of strength that I simply didn't have 18 months ago after d-day 1. I haven't forgotten, as much as I wish I could, but I refuse to let his stupidity define my life or make my everyday activities miserable. I've given him waaaaaay too much of my time already as far as that goes.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 8:31 PM, March 13th (Wednesday)]

This is our own counselling session - we can counsel each other - so thank you. I think I am in a similar place as you. 9 months later and I'm still here but I am feeling like I have to decide soon, being in a state of indecision is tough.

MY WS is remorseful but not emotionally aware of the impact of his choice, he understands with his brain but his heart doesn't get it. I still get stuck on - isn't R like saying the way you treated me for so long is ok. I know it is looking forward to a good M but I guess I am not ready for that.

MY Ws is not doing a lot of self work - from the inside out - he is not doing IC yet. He is doing stuff to fill himself with good and make himself feel ok - he found the renee brene Ted talks. He is going to church, doing volunteer work, reading the bible, .... All feeling better from the outside in.

MY WH doesn't talk much about the A or himself. Last Saturday he actually talked about why he stayed in his office all day. I didnt' care too much.

About memory building - you are in a better place than me. I want to burn everything that touched her. He did so much with her. Thankfully she was never in the house. They even shared the same birthday. Coming up in May. Not sure if I will even acknowledge this, ruined for me forever. I know many of the places they went - thank you Facebook. Happy pictures of both of them in so many places. so I struggle. I have actual visual reminders now burned in...

Isn't it just all crappy.

Some days you can do it and be more normal, and other days I can't cope. I have never been like this. At some point I am hoping for stabilization, I expect that will come after I commit to a direction. one can hope....

I hope you have a good day, one of nice surprises (glad that was a good thing), and one with some real heart felt smiles and joy.

I'm more than happy to chat about it - it's nice to talk to someone who can relate.

WS is remorseful but not emotionally aware of the impact of his choice, he understands with his brain but his heart doesn't get it.

I feel like this often - that no matter how often we talk and no matter how often I tell him how I feel and no matter how often I feel okay about it later, it's clear to me that he doesn't get how I feel. Granted, and this one has been a BIG one for me, I try to remind myself, before this happened to me and I would hear about infidelity I too couldn't figure out why someone was still "stuck" on what happened after so long (however long I deemed too long I cannot remember now - but it certainly wasn't more than a year...sigh). I was 100% clueless, and I am generally a pretty empathetic person - I just had zero base from which to draw a connection to how this would feel for someone, so in that regard I need to remember I cannot ever expect him to directly relate to how this feels as I never could before either. It's helped me understand why so many WS ask after whatever amount of time their brain deems adequate "will you ever be able to get over this" as I had the same exact reaction.

About memory building - you are in a better place than me.

It's taken awhile to get to where I am about it. D-day1 was 10/17 and it's only been since about 12/18 that I have adopted this mindset, because honestly the only person that the hanging onto inanimate objects as a source of hurt was hurting, was me. The house didn't do anything wrong - my favorite sushi restaurant certainly didn't harm me and the sushi is still darn good. But I was still in virtual or actual tears hours every day because they WERE in his car and our house and our bed and I couldn't afford to sell it all, or move, or anything, so I just had to deal with it every single minute of every single day, and it was killing me slowly. My anxiety and stress was a constant - I had lost a bunch of hair after d-day 2 which is struggling to return (after d-day 1 it was weight loss...I'd prefer the weight loss if I had to choose ), I was forgetful to a scary level...basically I wasn't holding it together well at all but I kept existing like that from 10/17 through 12/18 until I hit my own version of rock bottom.

What did it for me was this: The grocery store where I have shopped since the day I moved here, is one of the places that I actually know they went. I know because it's referenced in one of their text messages I downloaded from the summer of 2017 that I actually read (I stopped reading as I knew enough and felt like I was just pain-shopping to keep going) - something like "meet you at ________ store in 15 minutes. We will cook tuna steaks tonight!" Ultimately they bought the fish but it was never cooked...probably because fucking was too important and it ended up way in the back of our large stand alone freezer. I was clearing out the freezer right after thanksgiving in 2018, post-d-day 2, and I pulled out this brown wrapped package that said tuna and was $45 for a few pounds (crazy expensive and something my WH wouldn't normally do - he might but not very often). I looked at the date/time stamp on the butcher sticker and saw it was from the summer of 2017 and had a total meltdown right there - sobbing, shaking, on the verge of throwing up, dizzy, stumbling...the works, and it lasted for about 30 minutes. I was in quite a state when I calmed down and went to the bathroom to wipe off my face and I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror and thought "What the hell are you doing? YOU are allowing THEM to have this affect on you. YOU ARE ALLOWING A PIECE OF FISH to basically send you to the hospital (or the nuthouse)!!!!!"

And that was it...the turning point. I knew I had to stop this nonsense as this fish did nothing to me at all and that I was TIRED of feeling like shit about THINGS. Was I allowed to feel that way about my WH - absolutely - but about a piece of fish, or the lamp in my bedroom or his car?!?!!? Hell no. I actually decided to cook the fish that night for dinner but it was so freezer-burnt after I defrosted it that I threw it away - but my plan was to serve it for us and tell him where it came from. Instead because I tossed it, when WH came home I told him that I wanted to overwrite some of this stuff - where they went and what they did - but not only that - I wanted to overwrite the things that we had done during false R, because the BETRAYAL was the biggie for me. I wanted to be through with attaching memories and or ideas to things and be free of at least that part of infidelity and there was NO ONE that could do that for me but me. WH and I could talk until the end of time and we could be blissfully happy and win the lottery and be sappily in love like we used to be but still, nothing but me could control my reaction to these things...and dammit if I didn't like finding ONE THING that I could be in control over. It hasn't always been easy, but when I am mindful of my goal, its become a lot easier.

So that's my therapeutic message to you - granted just like an addiction, we can't start the process until we are ready to give it up...but when you do...WHEW does it feel good.

Oh, and as you may have guessed, what I am doing is simply a form of cognitive behavioral therapy (as my IC pointed out later). I didn't know it at the time - my thought process simply stemmed from a place of frustration and helplessness.

I am surprised that I am still “here” in the M – we are not in R. Now, my level of understanding of affairs and the “roles” is much deeper, and, of course, situations and life come into play too. I am more understanding. For me, all logic says, you had a poor M before the A’s, there is very little to build on. So given the impact that this has had on you (me), is there a point to stay in the M, can you get through this and should you… I struggle with the fact that “consequences” outside of his penis, weren’t considered. Like I wasn’t even real, or our boys weren’t real. Most people understand there are consequences to their actions – the self delusional behaviour is impressive. I do understand that he couldn’t see the depth of traumatic impact of his A on me ( I couldn't), but he sure should have understood the basic impacts and the messages it sends to his family and to me. It meant we are not important to him. I think for WS, reality disappears. The family he so wants not to lose - is what he didn't give a shit about. So to D or R - a Cliff hanger – even for me.

I experience anxiety too – and hair loss from stress, but I’m going up on the chocolate consumption so no weight loss. I do feel like places are tainted – he too is tainted. For, example, they used our gear to go camping, my WH car is in so many of their loving pictures, they even used our dishes for F’s sakes. I try not to think about the car, but when I get on a “roll” I do. I am practical, things are things, and all the camping gear is now in the garbage… didn’t need those things anyway. I will never camp with him again…

I am having lesser times or shorter events on the trauma roller coaster, hoping I can get there.

My counsellor suggested that I have sex with him again – I can barely tolerate hugs right now. So I’m ruminating on that. Not sure I can get past go. He is tainted … Sex for me has meant love - not sure I can go there when he had a 5 yr LTA and was head over heals in love with her.

That saying that life only gives you what you can handle – I call bull. But of course, you handle it, who has a choice, just a matter of how and how well. Still standing, and functioning.

Getting to a happiness level - not there. I am sure it will come.

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 9:23 AM, March 15th (Friday)]

That saying that life only gives you what you can handle – I call bull.

I HATE that saying and I personally think it was created by some asshole who had perpetrated some massive crime against someone else and was trying to make themselves feel better. Such a load...(I mean suicide pretty much decimates that statement...but I digress).

I struggle with the fact that “consequences” outside of his penis, weren’t considered.

Oh I do too - majorly. It's one of the things my WH has said repeatedly was that he just blocked out the consequences of his actions. He claims that the difference between d-day1 and d-day2 is that while he could still try to block out the consequences for me of his actions if he were to continue them that they would eat away at his subconscious "like a cancer" and he would be miserable. Apparently from the start of the A to d-day 2 he was masterful at not giving a fuck about the consequences to me. And yeah, I've done some bad things in my life but I've never just pretended they might not have consequences. He says between d-day 1 and d-day 2 he realized there would be consequences but that he just "figured he wouldn't get caught as he was more careful" - so what that says to me is a big "fuck you" to me. How on Earth do you reconcile with someone who CAN do that?!?!!?

And that's where I am. That and the fact that his conscious would keep him from doing anything else and not just his desire NOT to do that (that's not exactly what he said but he's not the best at saying what he means even though he thinks he is)??? We've had sex - not as frequently as before, and that is largely on him really. It's very weird but I think he hates himself so much that he's just lost and trying to find a way out. So, after all that I've been through (and you too - as it sounds like this applies to you as much as me) am I now going to stick around and HELP HIM with the mess that is him???

As an aside, I desperately wish there was a support group in the area where I live or people to hang out with to go have coffee with because this shit is so isolating. I think that's something my WH just doesn't grasp at all...the isolation for me is just terrible sometimes.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 10:13 AM, March 15th (Friday)]

I’m with you. My WH husband says he will NEVER do this again. That he can’t believe he did those things. That he never wants to see her again (the woman he loved, was his best friend, his soul mate, his life love) – she became evil. (what do you expect when you have a 5 year relationship with a prostitute. Yah they come with problems. Seriously, no brain cells… hello consequences). He wants to be a good person now, and he swears never again.

Simply hard to believe. This isn’t the first time he “left” the marriage. We had a fight 15 years ago, he left and said I’m done. He came back for his computer and I begged him to stay (stupid me, stupid, stupid). Five years later (second departure), he had at least 2 dating site profiles for chatting up women for years. And the third departure was when he decided to go to his whore/prostitute to not have an affair. (again, brain cell activity was low). Five years later, boom goes my world.

But he loves me, he wants me, he has always loved me. How do I believe any of it. Love is not a light switch, and that’s what if feels like. His love, like the switch, seems to go to the off position regularly.

I loved this man through a lot of shit. I simply don’t know if I can anymore.

I agree, there are not a lot of support groups out there – A’s seem to be a nasty secret unless you decide to make it your bread and butter and start a counselling company. Thank goodness for this site.

I feel badly for those of you who have no one IRL to talk to. I have friends who have also experienced infidelity.

What I know is that each of us has to do what is best for us as individuals. I have given up hope of regaining that feeling of you and me against the world. We make a good team, and he treats me well. For some people, what we have isn't enough. At this point in my life it works for me.

I went to 2 different BAN groups. BAN - Beyond Affairs Network. It is a support group. Id you go to the website there is a tab that you can search for groups in your area.

I found them very helpful - worth the 2 hour drive. It's a group of BS at different stages from DDay.

Just thought I'd throw that out there given the last few posts on the thread.

Thanks for the info on BAN. I will definitely check it out. Some days I’m okay and other days it’s just very frustrating. I can only call my friends who know so many times. Now I call and purposely don’t mention the A unless asked because I know they would like to hear from me for ANY other reason!

I saw a video on a ban group in Calgary. Was interesting. The folks seemed very supportive.