SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I listened to a lot of relationship/infidelity podcasts, multiple times. I will look them up for you.

Unfortunately I have trouble reading, I haven’t been able to finish a book since DD1. For the longest time 10pages was my max, I am a bit better now. I think it was a result of The trauma. I was an avid reader before.

I spent a lot of time on this site. A lot.

And I read a large number of articles.

I also did some counselling, and I need more.

And frankly long chats with understanding safe friends

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 12:57 AM, Friday, December 31st]

There’s this part of me that feels that Wayward spouses are too far gone to ever actually reconcile successfully.

I think they are missing some critical element that would have prevented them from being able to steal our well-being from us by cheating.

WH accuses me of treating him like he is less than. I told him I freely admit it.

He IS less than a normal human being who would not choose to harm another for silly ego kibbles

I strongly believe ego kibbles are something we earn from something special we do. But they are not dependent on fooling someone into believing something false about us

What is wrong with Facebook. All this stupid shit comes up. Like would you ever marry your spouse again.

I am answering here.

Fuck NO.

Oh HELL no!

I could have had our kids without marrying this monster

Hey Squish - I wasn't clear, but it sounds like you may be talking about both boundaries and dealbreakers - or what it will take for me to not immediately file for D which IMO (and others may disagree) is different from boundaries. For me, that list was something like:

- honesty

- NO CONTACT EVER with any AP

- a written timeline

- no being alone with a woman w/o my knowledge/consent

- passwords, etc for anything I wanted/needed (ie you no longer have a right to privacy)

And the problem is that he pretty much broke every one of my "dealbreakers", but I was not in a place to implement the only real consequence I had - which was to just file for D. so, I think a BS needs to get to a place of real clarity about willingness to pull the D trigger when putting together that list of dealbreakers (as different from boundaries).

The thing IMO about boundaries is they really are very unique to each person... and I suppose the "trick" is that one should not set a boundary (or determine consequences) unless they are VERY certain they can be followed though - eg. if you break NC I WILL divorce, means you must be ready/willing/able to file for D if the boundary is crossed. We have to be willing to say "no" as a complete sentence.

Also, boundaries are for YOU to get some sanity FOR YOURSELF. IOW, if you are looking at boundaries and have any hint in your own soul/psyche that the hope is your boundary will somehow "get" your WS to change or understand or anything, then it's not a boundary - it's an attempt at manipulation, and likely with an empty threat (and man oh man, did my traumatized lizard brain LOVE living in that place of manipulation during the first months). "boundary" can sound so simple, but they really are more nuanced (and I think it's like most things, once we start to do it, we get the hang of it and then it feels more natural/simple).

I think folks will approach boundaries from different angles... example: I ultimately found that I really needed a solid boundary about resentment, as I found myself harboring a lot of anger/resentment in several areas of my life. So, now if I'm asked to do something (or if I'm contemplating doing something - eg do I want to buy my WH a Christmas gift), then I am responsible to myself for "checking" to see if doing it will cause resentment, and if the answer is yes (even the teeniest bit), then I have to decline decline decline, like a bad credit card. Because I would rather have someone else be angry at me for saying no (or someone be hurt bc I didn't get them a gift), then saddle MYSELF with resentment bc I said yes. And this includes pretty much anything other than an actual PHYSICAL emergency (eg if my kid's car broke down in a crappy neighborhood at 2am, there is a CHANCE I would go get her, even if I know I will resent it.... but then it's 100% on ME to work through that resentment - NOT my kid's work, but MINE).

The Codependent books by Melodie Beatty (basically CoD no more and the New Cod) were helpful to me in better understanding boundaries, as was my own IC, tho I probably got the most mileage from AlAnon (I have a kid with alcohol/drug addiction). One kind of light bulb moment was my IC explaining that when we have and respect our OWN boundaries, we don't have to get upset and emotionally drained or hold anger, etc when they are broken. We know that if someone else chooses to not respect our boundaries, it is a THEM problem, and then move on. E.g., if my boundary is no one enters my office w/o my permission, and I walk in and a coworker is sitting at my desk using my phone... I can calmly say that they need to leave immediately, that I don't want to talk about it with them, and then let it go. I don't want to waste my time spinning wheels about the unacceptability of the behavior - I KNOW that and don't need further proof. So why take poison and expect someone else to change when all that poison does is harm ME?

Brene Brown is another good resource, and if the AlAnon idea doesn't float your boat, they have a book called courage to change with short stories every day that you can get online/ebay for probably $5-10 that I REALLY got a lot of mileage out of (so you don't HAVE to go to meetings or work steps to start to get the hang of boundaries and the joy and freedom they can bring).

Another author I loved and who helped was Rick Hansen, esp his book on Resilience and the HEAL steps (basically incorporating joy into our lives). I thought about it bc he has some passages about learning to be a friend to OURSELVES that may resonate for you.

I have used my library like nobody's beeswax since dday (and like Tallgirl, I now have trouble focusing on reading in paper form, something about the trauma of dday crossed that wiring, so I was thrilled to access audio books electronically or - if I must - on old school CDs).

As to your WH 'getting it', I think most on SI would agree that reading how to help your spouse heal from your affair by Linda MacDonald is a "must" read for both BS and WS. The other thing is that I would caution YOU from getting too in the weeds of being HIS emotional sherpa. it's very common (raising hand) for a BS to get so wrapped up in trying to "get" the WS to understand, change, fix, etc. that they don't have energy left for their OWN healing. I think if a BS comes across an article or book or podcast or anything that resonates, it's fine to share or to read together, etc. Where I get concerned is when the BS is doing all the legwork, and the WS is just following the BS' instructions. That's not a WS who is taking ownership or INITIATIVE. If you are spending hours googling the articles, the counselors, etc and he's watching football - that's a red flag about the importance he places on healing or R. We all have to come to REALLY understand that the ONLY thing we can control in this life is OURSELVES. We can't get our WS to understand. We can speak our truth, we can list our dealbreakers, we can set our boundaries, but we cannot change someone else... only they can do that and they HAVE to actually WANT to change, they have to WANT to be people whose behaviors reflect their values, morals, character, etc.

Hope some of this may help.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 8:09 AM, Friday, January 7th]

Hey Ladies…Happy Weekend!

I just wanted to share some happy news for once. Backstory, pre-Dday but post cancer…I got a tattoo for my WH. It represented his type of cancer, a flower, with some really personal script about my love for him. After Dday…given what he knew he did, I never understood why he didn’t persuade me not to get it….in my mind another selfish thing he did. Well after a long painful 6 hours yesterday….I am happy to say it’s now 3 beautiful butterflies and a bunch of pretty flowers.

For me it’s another small step to toward final closure and taking back my life. The next venture will be taking back my maiden name in the spring or summer.

I don’t come to SI as much anymore and I guess that’s a good sign but I want to say…you all saved me at my darkest times. And I owe you all a really big thank you! You SI women are the best ever! 💞

Hi everyone, I hope you are all well and are enjoying the weather wherever you are!

Throwaway999 - I love the idea of butterflies, I'm sure the tattoo is beautiful! great win for you in moving forward

gmc94 - Thank you for giving me things to think about. I completely understand what you are saying about making sure that if a boundary is made and then broken that you have to be in a place where you can take action. I have told my wh of my boundaries all of which is he has kept so far.

so my question today:

I am now wondering how it is even possible to move past the thought and hurt that ones partner threw away everything for their own desires. Yes they can have remorse, they can try to earn back trust, and do their best to show you that you mean everything to them now. But what about the time of A? that was all a choice, it wasn't really a mistake. I don't feel inside that someone can make up for something like that can they?

How do I make that ok so I can put it at the back of my mind? I dont think I can. What has hurt me most is that out intimacy, the fact that he was mine ... post were given away. Neither are just ours anymore. Its no longer private, its been violated.

does this mean if I can get past that we are done?

Thanks everyone for your thoughts I truly appreciate them!

Hi Squish

I see you struggling with many of the things I did.

Some thoughts.

If you R you need to start a new relationship. One with stronger clearer and more defined boundaries. And one with mature real love.

He has to prove to you he is worthy of it by supporting you. He has to want the M. And commit to the R. And frankly show up when you have a bad day. And counselling to figure out his issues. This is not the same M. It is more real, not one with soft boundaries.

You have to look and move forward. You can’t live with the A on your mind every day. It takes time to get to this place. Ultimately you have to trust him again.

Before R can really start, you have to deal with A. Deal with the lies, the cheating, the betrayal, being disrespected, the feelings of being thrown away, the selfishness….all of it. This takes work on your side And his. Once dealt with, and put in the past, you will be ready for R if you want it.

Here is the tricky part. If you want it. You are a different person, he is a different person. All lot of people say that they want to R because they love their spouse. I did. I loved the man I married, but he wasn’t the man I ended up with. You both need to recognize that you are different now, and if the love is still there - great.

In my case it took me time to see I didn’t like the husband I had. It was actually less about the A and more of a revelation of his character.

It was actually less about the A and more of a revelation of his character

Amen.

I love this idea TA!!!

And butterflies! Great choice

I have a burning pierced heart tattooed on my right ankle, done in 1996 after DD2. After 25 years, it has morphed into the head of Optimus Prime

Now when asked about it, I just say it represents how we’re always undergoing change

Sounds good, right?

Ha!

Cheater told me last night that the coworker he hid from me at a work Christmas party is back working in the office.

I set a very clear boundary.

He bows out of all activities that include her.

If it becomes a problem for me, he resigns.

WH has never given any job, school, friends, money up because of his lying and cheating

Now that he’s old, it’s a bigger loss. The idea of losing that might be enough to steer him straight?

We’ll see

I loved the man I married, even liked him then

Over the decades, the lying and cheating

I still love him

But I really don’t like him

Specific Trigger.
Maybe you Ladies can help me.

OK.
On one level I would/will say we are firmly in reconciliation.
Hubs is being accountable in every way.
I have no doubts about now,
And I have few doubts about the period in between the infidelity and now.
He *swears* that *nothing* 'happened' in between the infidelity and The Now Times.

On one hand, for many reasons, including his own genuine personality, preferences and limitations (I choose that word specifically over 'boundaries') I believe that.

On the other hand, for many reasons, including his own genuine personality, preferences, limitations, damages, selfishness and immaturity, during those interim years he often behaved in excrutiatingly myopic and selfish ways, and he now freely admits that, he created doubt out of thin air. He did that. He left enough room for doubt about his behavior and choices and activities *because he was so self absorbed he couldn't comprehend any reality beyond the nose on his face* that it takes practically an act of God to believe that he wasn't once again taking advantage of my trust and simultaneously bullying me into trust that he'd already blown sky high, and latitude that was inappropriate, regardless of and especially considering, prior behavior.

He was, and still can be, incredibly myopic. Self absorbed. Self centered. Honestly, acting out as an emotionally damaged child.

I feel like my husband has fallen backwards into my grace, largely because I'm giving and have been giving him A HUGE FUCKING PASS, because he is a bumbling emotional fucking idiot.

So OK,
We can't change the past.
We have only now, and however we approach, and whatever we are investing in the future, and why.

He's behaving now.
And it irritates the living *fuck* out of me that I am phrasing my relationship with my husband, and I'm describing my very marriage, in childish terms, in terms of behaving.

I am trying to step back and give him, give *both* of us, a chance to 'adult.'

He's 'adulting' just fine at this moment.

So, reconciliation. That feels OK. OK enough at this moment.
I see how we got here.
I *think* I see a way forward.

But...
There's this, *thing.*

Like all of us, my husband has his own sexual imprinting. He has his hot buttons, his turn ons.
They are primal, they are basic, they are constant, they are predictable. I would go so far as to say that they are 'fixed.'

The woman with whom he cheated punched those buttons big time. He admits that, and he admits that's what caused him to react, that caused him to respond, that caused him to step over that line.

There they are, those hot buttons, those turn ons. Baked into the OS.

To me, the litmus test of basic physical and sexual fidelity is recognizing one's own hot buttons and turn ons, owning them, and simultaneously acknowleging one's vow of fidelity,

and as opposed to reacting to, and then responding to, and then facilitating and participating in, a randomly offered hot button opportunity, *simply because it occured,*

One *sacrifices this very self-centric opportunity* on behalf of the relationship in which one is engaged and from which one is benefiting.
Even if that opportunity is as rare as rare air.
Even if one's spouse ain't a disco ball of sexual novelty. Who the fuck is, after a certain point? in time? in a relationship?
And even if Said Random Opportunity *is* The Glorious Fucking Disco Ball of Sexual Novelty,
one simply doesn't abandon one's spouse to (once again) Atlas Up the entire fucking relationship.

Unless One Does. =(
Gah. Fucking Man Child.

Anyway.
All that is background.
Coming back to that trigger.

My husband has certain, 'things.'
Certain hot buttons.
Certain preferences.
Certain turn ons.
Certain 'ways' of 'doing things' because those stimuli punch his buttons.

We've delved far enough that I know, *it is established,* that he did those things with her.
He did those things with her, because she punched his hot buttons in precisely and specifically those ways. She turned him on enough to step over that line.
So he did those things with her.

He literally flipped a switch,*he chose to flip that switch,* and for a relative few moments in our marriage, he jumped tracks.
Whatever it was that she had, and I have a pretty good idea of that by now, it was enough for him to throw the switch and create a complete circuit with *her,* and I was, however briefly, on the outside.

I know it.
He knows it.
And honestly, now *everything* we do, we try to do, we attempt to do, in terms of reconciliation, is a process of either putting aside that this interlude had/has an impact (I believe we have blown the rug-sweeping 'it didn't really happen/it doesn't really exist out of the water)
Or we are trying to shove it aside and 'replace it' with something, anything, that is equally as sexually and erotically and primordially essential, central and defining.
Or, something, anything, that is 'more essential' than that.

And honestly, that is NOT working for me.

Long Story Short:

Husband has certain turn ons.
Husband has personal, characteristic, built in OS responses to those turn ons.
Husband employs those, things, when interacting with me, sexually and physically.
I know them intimately.
I know them sexually.
I know them physically.

I know that he touched and interacted with *her* in this manner, specifically because *she* turned him on in that specific way, he wanted her, she turned him on enough such that he stepped over that line.

And every. single. time. he touches *me,* in that context, in that way, because he wants sex,

All I See is HER.

It *floods* me.

I want to crawl out of my skin.
I want to crawl away.
I want to die.
I want to die.
I want to die.

Instead, I slap a fake fucking smile on my face and wriggle away through some, mechanism.
He knows it.
I know it.

In fact, in our sex life, where the physical sexual interaction actually happens, I've largely stopped trying to turn him on.
Fuck if I want to get mired down in *that* swamp again- which has largely to do with his workaholism and general previous unavailability.

I'm a receptive and non-judgmental partner. Honestly, I don't judge his turn ons (and they are pretty fucking pedestrian.) Whatever. Whatever works. He's not trotted out anything that's beyond my boundaries.

But honestly, to this day, it's still so further 'Other Focused' that I wonder why I'm still here-

Or am I allowing it to be Other Focused,
or even promoting the Other Focus,
because I haven't healed from the damage of the betrayal,
and I do not even want the focus on ME?

All my husband has to do is touch me in a certain way, and ^^^ ALL OF THAT BULLSHIT rolls down on my head. =/

I am struggling.
I feel like I am struggling over something stupid and trivial...

...but, it's not. =(

You make me think hard about this

When I discovered WH’s cheating, I felt obligated to give him the chance to correct his fuckupedness

I know he likes being the center of attention, so he clowns around and turns every conversation into one about him.

I didn’t recognize this until the last 5 years or so

If it’s all about him, what about me?

MarriageRedux? Do you enjoy being around him still?

Do you love him?

Do you like him?

What keeps you there?

Sexually, mine is gross. I stopped putting out a few years ago. I thought sec was supposed to be about bonding, being in sync with each other

It sounds similar to you

You’re not in sync.

His cheating made you no longer willing to put wasted effort into something that would never be about what you want anyway

It’s all about Him. What HE wants, what HE likes.

But our husbands fired us when they cheated

So no we have to carve our lives, going forward, out of the rubble that’s left

I’m a workaholic.

I work one full time, plus four part time jobs

I purposefully load my schedule so not to spend time listening to him breathe

What’s in it for you to stay and listen to him breathe anymore!

20yrsagoBS:

Thank you, thank you for your response and your thoughts.

I am exhausted tonight.

I want to think about what you wrote and respond to it thoughtfully and mindfully.

There are nuances, but there always are. I am not special.

I will come back here.

Thank you. <3

Honestly, I think that all I did up there in that previous comment, all that I'm experiencing here, is the graphic, granular nature of a trigger.

I'm trying to dissect and translate a trigger away with logic and knowledge, and triggers aren't about that. Triggers don't work that way.

There will always exist the possibility that Husband will touch me in a certain way and it will remind me of what he did with her.

It will be that way until it's not.

I strongly feel that a chunk of what is hiding behind that trigger is my own fear that I wasn't enough. If I'd been enough, this wouldn't have happened.

I'm probably not enough right now.

I'll never be enough to stop hurtful things from happening.

Do you see how ridiculous and impossible that is?

Only *I* can prevent forest fires! BUT I CANNOT, AND I DID NOT, BECAUSE I'M NOT ENOUGH.

Husband didn't put that damage in me. I came into the relationship with that damage. And with the unspoken and largely unrecognized expectation that finally,I was enough, therefore hurt and disappointment and feelings of abandonment wouldn't happen.

No person can be so 'enough' that it prevents another human being from engaging in Stupid Human Tricks.

Husband says, and he knows, and on a rational level I believe him, that what he did had nothing to do with me.

Triggers aren't about rationality.

When he touches me like that, because he likes it, because I attract him in that way, truthfully because WOMEN attract him in that way, she floods me, because of my own insecurities and fear of falling short, fear of abandonment, fear of not being enough, never being enough.

Husband's unfortunate Stupid Human Trick years ago plugged right into my preexisting damage.

We both wish he hadn't done that thing, but honestly, most of this damage doesn't belong to him.

It's mine. =(

Hi Ladies and I think Happy New Year to you all… it’s been that long.

Welcome marriageredux959 and anyone else who I missed.

STBXWH turned 59 the other month. I gleefully pointed out to him that unlike the big 50th birthday bash I threw him, his 60th Birthday he can spend with his exAP and her new husband. Loneliness Sucks doesn’t it.

WH actually blurted out that he *f******* hates the ugly slut. Even despised her when he was f****** her.

She’s a chain smoker, which he hates. She and her house reeked of cigarette smoke and she and her house was always filthy. Never changed the sheets the entire year they were f****** in her bed. She’s a junk food addict and they ate crap and she smoked in bed. The one reason WH never spent the night, even after I moved out and left him. He couldn’t spend the night in her stinking house.

I told him that he would stink really bad after being with her, but I could never tell him. It all makes sense now.

So the slut is the opposite of me… that’s what turned WH on… dirty gutter trash.

Apart from all Covid crap. I am fully vaccinated, yet still managed to get covid in January and I can honestly say that I am only now getting my strength and energy back. That VIRUS sucks. The worst part is that I caught it from STBXWH who was in denial about having it and spread it around. What a nightmare of a man.

marriageredux959, this September will be 35 years that I married a narcissistic abusive serial cheater… I am just too old for his b*s*. Separated but I think only death will see us part. If you can’t fix it and cant live with it… end it while you have your sanity. 🙏🏼

LadyG,

I would love to feel bad for your WH, but he made his bed.

Too bad it isn’t comfortable

I am so glad you’re recovering from COVID

I have lost several colleagues to it

Some friends too

The virus is so much worse than the vaccine, I have rallied for vaccination, but there are still many holdouts. China is experiencing a surge, one of many more that I see happening

I had an epiphany yesterday

What if we treat infidelity like a disability?

We don’t ask their help because of their disability?

Why don’t include them in decisions due to their disability?

If you think about it, in a way, it sort of is

No one in their right mind would do what they do

I don’t think Cheating is in the DSM, but it’s definitely an illness of their mind

We seriously need a Betrayeds Spa weekend

Sometimes it amazes me how much you can love someone, yet dislike them intensely

I don’t think Cheating is in the DSM, but it’s definitely an illness of their mind

Can you imagine the chaos (sorry Chaos - not the BASGU kind) that would ensue if someone tried to add infidelity to the DSM! That would be one heckuva popcorn-worthy meeting!