SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

FF..I have already said I am backing off of you. How about you back off of me?

"Boundaries" "Thread jacking " "Show respect"

Or do the "rules " not apply to you?

Please don't reply to me anymore. I will show you the same courtesy.

Godheals..I appreciate your last post, and I can see where you are coming from. I hope you,and your husband, continue on the path of healing and happiness. When a WS does the work, and their BS can find peace within the relationship, it can be a beautiful thing.

Hellfire

FF..I have already said I am backing off of you. How about you back off of me?

Yet you still felt the need to get one more in though, right?

I wanted to share something if people are still reading.

Last night my H and I were talking. We brought up a few people we know. To me it seems like they give off this feeling they are better then most people. My H said he didn’t see like that. He saw it as they are more “reserved” and “Focus”in life. Which at that point I saw. But that reserved type can come off as “better then. Which my H saw that also. So we agreed.

Which brings me to my point here. I think most people here are rooting for FF and for him to tell his wife the truth because they want the best for both. Not just her but him also. But it can come off being as “pushy”. Which I see also but I can see the other side of it. We all want the best for him but it can come off a certain way.

I also think that WS here who didn’t tell the truth want FF to learn from their mistakes and maybe that is why they are being “pushy”. I think it can be hard to “see” someone making the same mistake they did and your trying to tell them please learn from me but they are not.

I think they are looking at it as it’s either “your wife finds out on her own or you tell her”. And the better choice between the two choices here is for you to tell her he truth. That’s what they are seeing here. It’s either this will happen or you do this! But please do this on your own.

I think bottom line here people want the best in the long run for him and his wife and for him to learn from their mistakes in life but that is coming off as being pushy that maybe seems to push FF away from it all. Idk.... just my thoughts!

I think bottom line here people want the best in the long run for him and his wife and for him to learn from their mistakes in life but that is coming off as being pushy that maybe seems to push FF away from it all. Idk.... just my thoughts!

The problem is; in most cases we want guarantees that the outcome of what we consider a "voluntary" negative action would be positive.

There's no way to guarantee to ff4152 (or for anyone) that the result of confessing would not be a divorce. And that is clearly not the result he wants.

On a personal note. One of the hardest decision I had to make during therapy was letting go of my marriage. To be able to openly discuss life after divorce. To have a plan for myself, for my children. And to realize that life will indeed continue. It was frightening. And I spent my entire life controlled by fear and controlling (at least attempting to control) life around me.

It's a heavy burden that I'm glad I've managed to put down. But I don't really know what would have happened if my wife divorced me. I suspect we'd be alright, eventually - not that reconciliation is easier.

And in the end the longer a lie is kept, the harder it is to let go.

So I understand ff4152.

I disagree with his choice.

If you look up the definition of "authentic," you're apt to find words and phrases such as:

of undisputed origin

genuine

real

true to life

actual

bona fide

based on facts

accurate

reliable

trustworthy

honest

faithful

Surviving infidelity requires authenticity. I don't care whether a new member divorces a WS or offers up the gift of reconciliation so long as they are able to find their own path towards living an authentic, happy and healthy life.

Above all else, I believe, this is what I have learned from this incredible community.

It's not easy to live authentically and even harder to let oneself be vulnerable (in a healthy way). It takes courage and I'm usually more comfortable avoiding conflict and building walls.

I believe, any BS in R wants to see their WS become a healthier and happier version of themselves and that starts with living an authentic life.

To me, part of living an authentic life includes being humble enough to know that I don't have all of the answers, that there's always something knew to learn, perspectives to be considered, and, eventually, judgments to be made.

There is tremendous wisdom to be found in this community of ours. It's good, solid wisdom. Whether folks choose to seek it out and learn from it is their choice to make.

There's no way to guarantee to ff4152 (or for anyone) that the result of confessing would not be a divorce. And that is clearly not the result he wants.

He's never said that though. He talks about "not wanting to add to her burden."

Most of us BS seem to want to know that we've been cheated on. As awful as it is, there's something primal where it's worse not knowing, even though knowing makes us less happy, perhaps permanently. The majority want to know. There are some don't ask don't tell types, but that's a minority.

So ff4542's BW likely would want to know. There's the additional factor that ff sinned against his BW. That sin has never been forgiven because she does not know. That can be considered a grave error by some.

Lastly there is us, you and me. IRL I could not sustain a relationship where I was expected to keep this sort of secret. It's not my business. Many try to take it to the grave, some succeed, but that's a journey you frankly need to take alone. I don't want a part of this business, even online. I have nothing to say to ff, never will. My concerns are with his BW. I am not going to be party to keeping his secret.

He's never said that though. He talks about "not wanting to add to her burden."

What do you think confessing to infidelity adds if not the truth that your partner is not who you thought they were and you now need to either divorce to reconcile with this new reality?

There's no way to guarantee to ff4152 (or for anyone) that the result of confessing would not be a divorce.

What about her? She is a human being. She continues to be left out of the equation. This is NOT just about him. Where is her choice? What about her agency? Why is she not a consideration? Why doesn't she get a voice?

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:20 AM, December 19th (Saturday)]

What about her? She is a human being. She continues to be left out of the equation. This is NOT just about him. Where is her choice?

I think this is the whole point. As of now, she does not have the whole truth of her life. I think the vast majority of people think that is wrong, and should be rectified. The person who committed those wrongs, however, disagrees, and has been very upfront that he has no plans of rectifying it.

And it IS true that when you confess, this migjt lead to a breakup. To actually reconcile, you need to confess (and there is no religion on earth in which repentance does not come with full confession& it is a requirement). But confession IS hard and even harder when the consequences to the confessor are so dire.

And maybe in ff's mind, he is never going to cheat again, so why hurt her with the knowledge that he cheated? In his mind, it is a kindness. But the problem is that her life is a lie. And this is not reconciariin. It isn't even a better marriage. He is a better husband, and that is great. But it is not a good relationship if she doesn't know why he has made such a turnaround.

I only knew about my ex's cheating after the relationship was over. And part of me didn't want to know because of how much it hurt. But I also now knew who I was dealing with. Which in the long run is a blessing.

I do not think it is ok not to tell. Or, better to say, you can't have a HEALED relationship without the truth, but if someone is explicitly saying they will not do something, there is no point in say I g it anymore, as it does not accomplish a thing

What about her? She is a human being. She continues to be left out of the equation. This is NOT just about him. Where is her choice? What about her agency? Why is she not a consideration? Why doesn't she get a voice?

She does----from all of us here. That is why, unfortunately for FF, the subject won't be dropped. It is at the heart of the matter, and as strong as FF's resolve is NOT to tell, is the resolve of many members to continue suggesting that he does.

That is why, unfortunately for FF, the subject won't be dropped

I am genuinely curious. What is the point? How does that help his wife? At this point he knows what people are saying, and he is not doing it. I don't think it is wrong to tell him to do the right thing and tell his wife, but I think it is pointless. It does not help his wife and it changes nothing for him.

However, I do believe that he calls himself a former wayward. I think to address THAT, that means something. He is not cheating but it isnt formerly wayward when you're not being honest with the person you hurt and are still hurting.

I do think it is useful to.ask how he would feel if the situation were reversed. To call him out for posting in positive R stories, when he is inherently not reconciling. But telling him to tell his wife? If he has no intention of doing it, again, it helps no one.

If I put myself in his wife's shoes, I would want to know people were telling him to do the right thing. But I would get it if people stopped since he was ignoring it

To call him out for posting in positive R stories, when he is inherently not reconciling. But telling him to tell his wife? If he has no intention of doing it, again, it helps no one.

I still say most are missing the point. Any wayward that STOPS their A, and works towards restoring their M is on the right track.

As to reconciling, there is more than one definition--

. rec·on·ciled, rec·on·cil·ing, rec·on·ciles

v.tr.

1. To reestablish a close relationship between: reconciled the opposing parties.

2. To settle or resolve: reconciled the dispute.

3. To bring (oneself) to accept: He finally reconciled himself to the change in management.

4. To make compatible, harmonious, or consistent: reconcile my way of thinking with yours.

5. To compare (one financial account) so that it is consistent or compatible with another: reconciled my ledger against my bank statement.

v.intr.

1. To reestablish a close relationship, as in marriage: The estranged couple reconciled after a year.

2. To become compatible, harmonious, or consistent.

Is it necessary that we all use the same definition?

I still say most are missing the point. Any wayward that STOPS their A, and works towards restoring their M is on the right track.

I think you're missing the point.

Keeping your spouse in a gilded cage of lies is not restoring the marriage. Lying by omission is not stopping the affair.

Waywardness is fully intact and not at all fWS as long as you deprive your spouse of humanity and the dignity of choice.

It's like an alcoholic that is whiteknuckling and in a state of being a dry drunk.

I lived the forced state of lies for 22 years before I was told the truth.

I see in hindsight that simply not having sex with other people was not the same as actual healing for my ws

The vast majority of concern in me is for the caged betrayed. But I also feel concern for any wayward that has convinced themselves they are healed while walking around so sick. And that they are willing to cage their spouse by withholding truth continues to hurt the WS even though it is a lesser and self inflicted wound in comparison to the continued abuse by lies.

[This message edited by jaynelovesvera at 5:40 PM, December 19th (Saturday)]

I still say most are missing the point. Any wayward that STOPS their A, and works towards restoring their M is on the right track.

Wasn't going to go with this story, but it's time again.

Infamous case on this board a year or two back. WW had a long affair, 9 years or so, that ended when the AP and his family died in an accident. WW is advised by IC not to tell because the affair can't restart, just be the best wife and mother she can be.

Indeed, the BH reported a much improved relationship post A. For 9 more years.

Then the BH discovered the A going through old computer files. BH had no interest in R and filed. Her children also became alienated from her. A few months later she took her own life.

Her BH was not obliged to offer R to her. Her situation with the kids was suboptimal, that usually doesn't happen. But I don't really know how she carried herself during or after the A. People that are closeted often overcompensate in other directions. If she's anything like FF, maybe she made nasty, self righteous comments any time there was any impropriety elsewhere. That wouldn't play well once the truth comes out.

In any case, there are cases every day on JFO where the BS finds out years later. It NEVER, EVER matters any "work" the WS does beforehand. Even people who think they have done work, it all blows up. Nothing FF is doing now is going to matter if it all blows up.

As someone else mentioned, morally he's still sinned against his BW and not asked forgiveness, which is not good.

FF will not confess. He is not going to give his wife honesty.. or choice.

And there is nothing that will be said that will change his mind.

And there are enough people here who continue to tell him he is on the right track, encourage him to post his "positive reconcilation story, etc.

I am much more concerned with the new waywards who come here and read his story...and the current members who support his rationalizations.

I am much more concerned with the new waywards who come here and read his story...and the current members who support his rationalizations

I have to say that I was dumbfounded when a poster defended him posting in positive R. I actually DO think he should be commended for the work he is doing. Every step is something. However I think it is all kinds of wrong that anyone would say he is reconciling when his wife does not know. I think it is all kinds of wrong that he says he is a former wayward when he is not being honest with her.

Keeping your spouse in a gilded cage of lies is not restoring the marriage. Lying by omission is not stopping the affair.

Waywardness is fully intact and not at all fWS as long as you deprive your spouse of humanity and the dignity of choice

All.of.this.

Iam much more concerned with the new waywards who come here and read his story...and the current members who support his rationalizations

Yes! That "former" waywards are actually saying it's ok that he won't tell his wife the truth about her life, is so very disappointing. Saying you don't agree with it,but hey, his confession may not give him the outcome he wants so it's understandable, is offensive to every BS. It makes the BS obsolete. Inanimate. How much work have they done on themselves if they can think this is acceptable. And,no,Im not calling out just one particular wayward. He just seemed to sum up what a few of them were saying.

I often tell BS,if their WS knows they are here, ask them to start posting. Because we have some amazing former waywards who can help them. And,while I still think that's true, I've realized that particular group is smaller than I thought.

Weighing in as a BS.

Yes, stopping an A is definitely a step in the right direction. Working on one's self is too. Proper credit where it's due.

But. I found out about my exdouches waywardness very close to when it started. He confessed (some of the truth at least) and it was devastating to see that my reality wasn't what I thought.

My second dday happened when I found out (not from xwh) that there was more to it and that he'd been living with me, having sex with me, telling me I meant something to him for three months after fucking his AP in my bed. Three months is all the lie I lived and that second dday was magnitudes more devastating than the first one.

I firmly believe that the truth almost always outs. And I can tell you as a BS that when it does, it will not matter one whit how much work the "fws" did, how great the M was, nothin. EVERY single memory in that time frame will immediately have an asterisk behind it. *Did he say that nice thing because he'd just fucked his AP? *Did he buy me that gift because he'd just fucked his AP? *Did he do that nice gesture because he'd just fucked his AP? *Did he ever mean what he said? *Did he ever love me? *What else did he lie about?

I myself can't imagine how much it would hurt having YEARS of your known reality invalidated in such a fashion. I only had three months and I hope I never feel that level of wtf and pain again in my life.

To be clear I never said it was ok for him not tell his wife the truth. I never said any of his actions were ok. I don’t think I ever used the word “ok”.

I think people here are doing is trying make it sounds like I said this was ok.

Backing off someone who we have told over and over again all the information he needs to know because he needs to be able to get there himself is not saying it’s ok for what his doing.

But if people want to see it that way I am not going to keep arguing that point over and over again because no matter how many times I point out certain things people will always see it how they want too.

Never mind.

[This message edited by ff4152 at 6:12 PM, December 20th (Sunday)]