SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have read a lot of responses to a post I made, which I am very grateful to you all for giving input and advice. I have also been researching and reading on this subject for 2 years now.

Everyone's situation is different and the more I look into things, the more I realise that affairs can happen for so many reasons. In short, it is complicated and never as black and white as it may appear.

Here is why I was unhappy:

1 I have spent 10+ years being the model husband and father. I always said to my wife to follow her passions in life and I would always support her and the kids. But she has never done anything with that. Never tried to get a job. Never taken up a hobby. Never actually earned a cent since we met. And I was fine with that, I just wanted her to be happy. But she just does nothing at all. No ambition to do anything. I've tried to encourage her and help her, but dang, she gives up on everything so quickly.

2 I bought us a new house. On top of working long hours, I do all the cleaning in this house. I do all the tidying after the kids. I do all the grocery shopping. All the labor around the house. She cooks as she does not like my dishes. But other than this. She doesn't lift a finger. I don't even know what she does with her time

3 She never liked my friends, so I never see them anymore as it always seems to cause arguments when I do. Same for my family. She has no friends of her own. We have no social life. All she wants is to spend time with the kids. I feel isolated, controlled and lonely.

4 She just wants to watch TV nite after nite. We watch crap on cable instead of talking or connecting. I told her I didn't want that, wanted more. To talk, to laugh, play games. It fell on deaf ears. I feel lonely even when she is there in person.

5 We sleep together, but though I have told her what I would like in bed and asked her how I can make it great for her, it is the same routine every single time. No variety. And my words fall on deaf ears again. I got to the point where I almost wanted to avoid sex altogether

6 Her family have always been pretty off with me - even though I did everything I could to make her happy. It was never good enough. They badmouth me all the time and she never stood up for me.

7 She won't let me parent. I try and put rules in place. But she ignores and lets them ignore every single one. The kids are out of control at times and not well behaved. It is a constant source of tension in the house. The kids see me as the bad guy cause I just think we need to set boundaries.

8 She stopped exercising - OK this is a little contentious. But whilst my wife is very attractive, she just stopped working out and started eating junk. She put on weight and does not seem to want to lose it. It is not even the weight or how she looks so much as what that represents. That is what I find most unattractive. I work out 4 times a week - up at 6am so does not get in way of work or chores. Not sure what she is doing

9 She was messaging guys a long time before my A. She would talk to them on IM or social and it was not platonic content.

10 She lies a lot. Sometimes about stupid things, sometimes about bigger things. I know she does, but she gets angry when confronted.

11 We never do anything, go anywhere, have any quality time together. We had kids and she seemed to give up on marriage and go all in on being a mom. I told her there needs to be balance, times where we were mom and dad and times when it was me and her, a couple. There is no balance.

12 She stopped sharing any interests with me. She is immersed in her own world and with the kids. I often feel like a walking wallet and often very unappreciated. I have no space for myself as she wants to kids around us 24/7. We have no space for a marriage.

I have tried talking to her and being open. I have had therapy for years to work through all this. Many people tell me she seems depressed, but she is pretty happy most days and says this is the life she wants. She does not need friends or a job.

My A did not come out of left field. I was lonely and unhappy. I know this seems like justifying my actions, I suppose it is. It know it was wrong and I should have just left. Not tried to have it all. That was unfair and cruel. I try to make it work with BS. I try and talk to her. I want to be happy. I want to get over AP. But dang, sometimes I wonder if I made the right call if this is how I still feel. That is hard to deal with the question of what if I would have been happier with AP. Yes, the grass is greenest where you water it, but sometimes that patch of grass seems like it's on a very steep hill.

Does this resonate with anyone?

[This message edited by Comesinwaves at 12:10 PM, January 28th (Thursday)]

Personally, I find everything you wrote hard to believe. You do all the housework, all the shopping, all the cleaning after the kids, and work long hours??? Do you sleep? And you don't know what she does with her time. Have you asked? What does she say?

She doesn't like your friends or your family and her family doesn't like you and she never defended you.

Oh, and she's horrible at sex. She lies and she's gaining weight.

Did I miss anything?

If all this is true without exaggeration, how long has it been going on for and why did you guys even get married in the first place? It appears as if you don't have a marriage at all and haven't for a long time. So why didn't you just file for divorce?

"You do all the housework, all the shopping, all the cleaning after the kids, and work long hours??? Do you sleep? And you don't know what she does with her time. Have you asked? What does she say?"

I do all these things. Not an exaggeration. If I don't the house looks like a refuse dump. Do I sleep, yeah, but not very long.

I am working, but when have been off sick, she spends most of the day on her phone or iPad or watching TV. I have asked, she says she is keeping house in order.

She is not horrible at sex, but is not listening to my needs. I ask about hers.

Yes, has gained weight. It happens, is more what the lethargy represents.

She was not like this when we met. She was full of life. I would say it has been this way since we had our youngest daughter and gotten worse over last 4 or 5 years.

She sounds depressed. Or maybe avoidant. But what she is dealing with is not important, what is important here is to understand why you dealt with anything by having an affair instead of divorcing. If you were really fine with how things were and just wanted her to be happy, what was the problem? It sounds like you did and do want more. How did you communicate about your wants to her? Do you understand that they are YOUR wants, that you both may have had very different ideas of what marriage looks like, that you are not owed your idea of marriage? That if you communicated in a team oriented, not blaming way and she still chose otherwise, you could have said, I want couples counseling/divorce?

Do you see? The focus is why you chose the affair instead of beating your head against the wall in a marriage with someone who didn’t share the same values as you. Have you ever been in IC? What was your family of origin like?

It's not wrong of you to be unhappy with your partner. It was wrong of you to make her your betrayed spouse.

If you're unhappy in your marriage. You work on your marriage.

If you're unhappy in your marriage and you both tried to fix it but can't. Then you separate.

You do not go fuck someone else - and most of all, we don't get to say "the affair did not come out of left field".

[This message edited by forgettableDad at 7:53 AM, January 28th (Thursday)]

I did work on my marriage. I did try and talk to her

Getting divorced isn't a small thing. It means losing my home, not seeing my kids, swallow up all our finances. It's not that straight forward.

I met someone who I loved very much and for the sake of keeping the family together, am trying to get over.

It was not just about having sex with someone. There was a lot more to the relationship than that. And I am left wondering now if ending it was correct and what life may have been like with her.

Right now, I can say I am unhappy and lonely as before.

Have you done IC?

Edit just saw that you had been in therapy. Have you been in the last two years? What was the result?

[This message edited by leavingorbit at 9:33 AM, January 28th (Thursday)]

Getting divorced isn't a small thing. It means losing my home, not seeing my kids, swallow up all our finances. It's not that straight forward.

YEP!

I know people mean well and can only try to help based on what we write, but it’s not as though “just get a divorce then” is this straightforward cure-all. And lest I sound like a hypocrite, I fully admit that I’ve been guilty of saying that myself. I have been schooled, by my own situation, and I will try to never say that here again.

So the only other option, unfortunately, is to suck it up and deal with what we (collective “we”, BS and WS alike) are unhappy about. I don’t want to lose my kids either. Decimate our finances. Lose my home, and not be able to get another because thanks to my H and me both, my credit is shot. So, I stay.

At some point, it is what it is.

I know that sucks for everyone involved and isn’t what you want to hear, but it really is those two choices.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 10:00 AM, January 28th (Thursday)]

leavingorbit - Therapy is very hit and miss for me. I had a very rough childhood and it has impacted me in many ways.

The thing it never helped was fully understanding feeling for AP. One therapist said she thought what we had seemed pretty genuine, caring and had the basis for something long-term despite how it began. Another said they wanted to just wake from the dream I was in and see AP for what they were - fantasy.

I know why I am broken and the strange thing is, in many ways, the time I spent with AP fixed so many of my issues. But it opened up new ones also (the fixation with her and being more unhappy at home)

I have spent thousands trying to improve mental health and get over her. The latter seems like it is insurmountable. Which makes me worry I truly do/did love her and let her go because morally it was wrong to continue or morally it felt wrong to leave my kids. I also hated how I had hurt my wife. I did not sleep at all knowing I was acting how I was to her.

DarknessFalls - thanks the message. Feels good someone else feels similarly. If it was so easy, I probably would have left for good and started a new life with AP. I suspect in some ways, I would have been very happy. But the reality is, committing to her meant losing everything, mainly seeing my kids, seeing them grow, being in their life fully and being very broke paying alimony, selling the house or paying for mortgage and rent (my wife does not and will not work), and adding so many stressors to life. Divorce is not something to take lightly.

So yes, you suck it up and some days that is kind of OK. Others, you want to cry all dang day cause you feel so unhappy, cornered and trapped

I will spend the nite alone again, ignored, or like robots, watching a show but not talking. It is not what I want from life. But leaving is not an option realistically.

I will spend the nite alone again, ignored, or like robots, watching a show but not talking. It is not what I want from life. But leaving is not an option realistically.

This is how we spent every evening before I gave up and started doing my own thing.

So how about you do YOUR own thing? If she won’t reciprocate time, attention, effort, etc., then spend your down time doing things that are of interest to you. Read a book you’ve been meaning to read. Start a project that interests you. Move your workouts to the evening instead of the morning. Pick up a hobby.

Find fulfillment for yourself instead of looking at her (or your exAP) for it.

Hi again Comesinwaves,

This statement stood out to me:

Everyone's situation is different and the more I look into things, the more I realise that affairs can happen for so many reasons. In short, it is complicated and never as black and white as it may appear.

Followed by

Here is why I was unhappy: (insert long list of grievances about your BS's conduct and choices here)

and

My A did not come out of left field. I was lonely and unhappy.

You are right that people who choose affairs have a variety of reasons why they felt unhappy in their marriages. But I think you are confusing reasons people feel tempted to cheat with the reasons people like you and I acted on those temptations and became actual cheaters and liars. They aren't the same thing.

Even if your wife is the worst person in the world, if you really want to sort this out you are going to have to drill down on why hurting and harming your wife, your kids and your own integrity was an acceptable price for getting the feelings you wanted. Because that is what AP is: a source of good feelings for you. In your last post you talked of trying to sort out whether it's "her" or the "idea of her" or the "lifestyle" you had when you were with her. Respectfully, I don't think it's any of those. It's straight up about the feelings you got when you were with her or when you now think about her. You are in withdrawal, and grasping after those feelings, trying to figure out a way to get your source going again.

Your marriage situation as you describe it sounds awful. You are getting what you don't want, and not getting what you want. That is a fundamentally human experience that we have again and again throughout our lives, in ways big and small. Sometimes it's "they forgot my side of sour cream" and sometimes it's "I feel disconnected from my spouse and I yearn for greater connection." Sometimes it's "That guy cut me off in traffic" and sometimes it's "My dad is dying of cancer." Our work is to learn how to deal with the crummy feelings that arise in these circumstances in ways that are wholesome instead of destructive to ourselves and the people around us. If you are successful in that work, you'll find that even in circumstances which you can't (or choose not to) change, you will relate to those circumstances differently. You will relate to your feelings differently. In a nutshell, it's never the thing; it's how you relate to the thing.

I hope you stick around. Keep reading and posting. Don't only seek out advice from people that agree with you. My experience here when I was trying to get my feet onto the healing path was that if it made me mad or sad, it was probably a good place to dig.

My parents stayed together for the kids without actually fixing their relationship for its own sake. All of us grew with a defective relationship modelled. It's not really better.

In the end; a marriage is made of two people. And, I hate to break it to you buddy, but you got divorced the moment you stepped out with someone else. We all did. I did. I've spent the last two years fighting tooth-and-nail to build something new. But it's not just my fight; my wife shoulders in her own work on the marriage - otherwise it. will. not. work.

The way you write, you sound like you're more than just "unhappy". You're on a dangerous road. And your kids will not benefit from you hurting yourself or others. Speak with your wife; maybe a trial separation. Finding your own space will probably be good for both of you.

I got kids too. I do understand how hard this decision is. But is this the relationship you (and your wife) want to model to them?

Appreciate all the comments, but honestly, I am just really unhappy with my life. How my wife wants to parent is so at odds with how I think we should raise the kids. We don't agree at all with anything related to what their boundaries should be. She lets them stay up until 10-11pm. Eat whatever they want. Over indulges them constantly. I have now given up even trying to get them to listen or set any rules. As my wife ignores these anyway, so the kids follow her lead.

I give up trying to tell my wife that I'm lonely. Trying to tell her what I want from our marriage. From life. Having to practically beg for time as a couple.

I do appreciate all the advice, thank you. But at some point, you have to hold your dang hands up and admit when it's not what you want. I do want to be over my AP, I want to feel something for my wife again. But maybe the cold fact is, I love someone else and always will.

forgettableDad - am not going to hurt myself or anyone. Not sure what you mean by a dangerous road, but I can fake being happy for the sake of everyone else in the house.

I am probably more than unhappy. I spend most days just thinking of AP and being miserable without her. I spend most nites alone and frustrated with how things are at home. I miss feeling and being loved. I miss being able to love someone back like that. I wish I could have this with my wife.

We have both changed a lot over the years, and I think A and AP just underlined how much we had drifted and gone in opposite directions.

Unless you actually talk to your wife you will never resolve this or be happy.

I get it. I did what you are doing for too long.

Stop wasting your time. As the old saying goes - SHIT OR GET OFF THE POT.

You will never be happy otherwise.

Good luck.

So where you are is "on the fence".

I was on the fence for about six months after my D-day. I was NC with my AP but I still pined for him. I wrote in my journal how much I missed him. I looked for signs from the Universe to tell me that we were meant to be together after all. At about 6 months after D-day, I did get a sign from the Universe but it wasn't the one I had been expecting. I realized that if I wanted to ever be happy, it was either going to be with BS or on my own. AP was never going to be a mentally healthy choice for me.

In a healthy relationship, your partner will encourage you to be your best self. Does being a liar and a cheater sound like it's your best self? Nope. And your AP was a-okay with that, in fact she required it to get the feelings she was wanting to get from you. In short, she used you, and you used her. Does that sound like someone you want to hitch your wagon to? I am sure in your brain right now there is a whole list of ideas ticking off about how your situation is different, how I don't know you, I don't know what that relationship was really like, I can't possibly understand the way you are feeling but, friend, in the ten years I have been working on my own healing and reconciliation and during the time I have spent on this board reading so very many stories of infidelity I have learned this: Yes we are all unique, and what most makes us unique are the positive qualities and ideas we bring to the table. When we break, our pathologies are remarkably similar when we realize that they are all just versions of grasping after the feelings we want and resisting the ones we don't.

You chose an affair. It could have been booze, drugs, food, shopping, gambling, excessive exercise, video games or some other agent for numbing your crummy feelings and trying to pump up the good ones. Until you are able to deal with the feelings in a way that is wholesome instead of destructive, you will keep manifesting pathological behavior. AP is not, and can never be, a mentally healthy option for you.

[This message edited by EvolvingSoul at 3:27 PM, January 28th (Thursday)]

You chose an affair. It could have been booze, drugs, food, shopping, gambling, excessive exercise, video games or some other agent for numbing your crummy feelings and trying to pump up the good ones. Until you are able to deal with the feelings in a way that is wholesome instead of destructive, you will keep manifesting pathological behavior. AP is not, and can never be, a mentally healthy option for you.

This. (well, except the video games - I'm a gamer).

You are hurting yourself. And you are hurting others around you in the process. Putting a fake smile on your face; what a joke. Do you think your children can't see past that? Do you think your children can't tell their father is broken?

You need to find your space to heal. And in doing so you'll be a better parent as well. Your marriage sounds non-existent at this point. What do you lose by a trial separation? Even in-house separation. Something that is vocalized and heard and understood between you and your wife to break this status-quo.

I would say it has been this way since we had our youngest daughter and gotten worse over last 4 or 5 years.

What has changed for her?

I know why I am broken and the strange thing is, in many ways, the time I spent with AP fixed so many of my issues.

Were you broken when you met your BW? Did she fix your issues too?

JBWD - what changed for her?

Well she basically threw herself into motherhood 100% of her time and all of her energy. She said she did not have time to find a job (I offered to pay for childcare if she wanted to pursue a career, bear in mind she is very smart and capable). But she insisted she could not take the time to do so. She insisted on the kids sleeping in the same room as us. On the kids coming everywhere with us. On us spending 24/7 with the children. It took me years to convince her we could get a babysitter to look after the kids so we could actually go out anywhere without them.

All she spoke about were the kids. She never had many friends, but she stopped connecting with the ones she did. She was always blaming them for not being interested in her life or contacting her. But she only ever spoke about the kids to them and she barely messaged or called them. They had to be the ones to make the effort. She didn't see it is a 2-way street. She felt the world was against her.

She then resented me having friends or wanting to go out and hang with the guys. If we ever saw my family, we would have huge arguments after as someone would have said something she took offence at. She told me she hated my friends, even though they have always been nothing but kind to her, like spending a tonne on tofu and vegan food when we went to BBQs and buying her pretty expensive birthday gifts.

She made it more and more difficult for me to see my friends and family.

She stopped working out so felt bad about herself. She would moan about her weight whilst eating a whole cheesecake to herself.

What changed for her? She gave up on creating a life for herself, her own identity and independence.

"Were you broken when you met your BW? Did she fix your issues too?"

No, I actually got worse and worse as time went on with BS. I realise now I felt controlled and isolated from the people and things that were good for me. I feel like we are hermits hiding from the world, this is what she wants, the life she wants, but she never asks me what it is I am looking for from the marriage. It is all on her terms.

It was AP who helped me through most of my issues and who I felt comfortable enough to share what was in my head with. She was supportive and kind but also forced me to fix myself.

I hear all the grass is greener comments. I hear how it is all fantasy. I hear that I have created a perfect woman in my head. But it does not detract from quite rationale reasons as to why I am unhappy and why I felt what I did, what I do, for AP.

If I could go back, I think I would have left, done things the right way, then start a relationship.

I am not prepared to leave the kids or lose my home, lose all I have worked for and also, do not want to hurt my wife by leaving her. I want to try and fix things, but I am wondering if what I want is a totall personality change in my partner that will never happen.

You have to understand, we see a lot of people here who are rewriting the history of their marriage. "Not Just Friends," which is a popular book with members of this site, describes a phenomenon called the "monogamous infidel." This is a person who feels guilty about loving two people at the same time, and so it's necessary for them to vilify the existing partner in order to detach from them. We also see a lot of affair fog, where a flawed person is elevated to soulmate status not because they're so special, but because they make the WS feel alive and desirable. In a way, you're having an affair not with another person, but with your "rediscovered" self. It's notable that you started your first post by telling us how wonderful your wife is, smart, funny, attractive, kind, a good mother, good sex. Now you're telling us how dead and miserable things have been for ages. We're raising an understandably skeptical eyebrow about whether your initial description was just "I'm a nice guy" grandstanding or if you're giving an accurate picture now.

But let's say you're the exception, and you really are married to an uncommunicative couch potato who rejects all overtures about your unhappiness in your marriage. Let's say that AP really was a better match for you. You assert that if you could go back in time, you would stand up for what you need and be honest with your wife. You say you would leave your marriage, take the consequences, and be free when AP came along.

Here's the rub: you're in the same boat you claim to have been in before the affair, unhappy in your marriage, feeling isolated and unheard, and believing your concerns are being dismissed. And yet, you're making the exact same choice. There could be another person who is a better match for you out there, but once again, you're defaulting to

I am not prepared to leave the kids or lose my home, lose all I have worked for and also, do not want to hurt my wife by leaving her.

So really, you don't wish you had done anything differently. You still choose to remain married to someone with whom you are incompatible because the price of freedom is too high to pay. I'm sure you don't want to hurt your wife and kids, but most of all, you are hiding behind your wife to avoid facing that you and she have a lot in common. She doesn't want to sacrifice comfort for a raw, honest, complicated relationship, and neither do you. You could tell her the truth about your affair, but then you would lose control of the outcome. You wouldn't be a tragic figure. You'd be exposed to your friends and family as a common cheater. She might be furious, file for divorce, and take you to the cleaners.

You believe that AP was your soulmate, but you didn't have the courage to end your marriage before cheating so that you could offer her a whole and honest partner. It's unclear what you told her was going to happen when you moved out, but since she wants nothing to do with you anymore, I surmise there were broken promises there. She was never more than a dirty secret in your life because you felt safer keeping her in the shadows. And yet, somehow, you still are casting yourself as the tragic victim of a cruel fate.

There's no magic wand that will change who your wife is. She sounds contented with your marriage, and she believes (correctly, apparently) that while you have issues with it, they aren't a big enough deal that you're willing to divorce over them. She may very well assume that you came home because you realized your life with her is something you didn't adequately appreciate. It doesn't sound like she was concerned about the possibility of divorce (though of course, we're hearing this story through your filter). This is your life, if you choose to stay. And if you aren't willing to be honest with her about what you did, and listen to how that changes things for her, then it's a bit much to expect her to put herself on the line to change for you.

Despite the 2x4s I'm hammering you with, I'm not unsympathetic to your pain. There's a default assumption here that every marriage was worth saving before infidelity occurred. Maybe yours really wasn't, and you had a chance at happiness with the AP and let it slip away. I believe you are in pain and don't want to feel this way. But you need to take some ownership that you made the choices that landed you in this situation. You decided not to divorce with integrity before you met someone new. You decided to break it off with AP and come back to a lackluster marriage. You decided to keep lying to your wife and maintain an empty status quo. And you're still doing it. You had the power to make all of these decisions, and you are being very careful not to let any of that power go.