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Kintsugi I don’t see much here. Based on your prior posts this is a rebound relationship which began almost immediately after the demise of your prior relationship which ended llast summer. To quote the great Maya Angelou, never make someone a priority when all you are is an option.

Thanks Absolution, I do appreciate the direct and candid feedback. While yes, technically a rebound (as in first relationship after a breakup)but with four months and a ton of personal work following the breakup and even ongoing now, a connection and fit with someone shouldn't be ignored IMO. I was bread crumbed by my ex for more than six months, and didn't break no contact. In short, I wasn't replacing my ex, I had healthily said good bye to it and moved on. I'm a believer that just because someone enters a relationship after the last one ended, it doesn't automatically equate to a doomed rebound relationship when approached in a healthy manner.

What I am wondering though is from the other angle. She has plans Fridays which go into Saturday, so what are you doing when she does this? Do you plan good fun things to do with friends or are you sitting in the house and waiting for her to make time for you?

I guess what I mean is that to have a good healthy life yourself, you want to be doing fun things you like and setting/achieving the goals you want for yourself, creating & maintaining friendships outside the relationship. It helps so that if you find this (or any other) relationship does go south, you have a fulfilling life of which that relationship is only one component, not the whole thing.

You are absolutely correct Jam, and you touch on one of my personal challenges. I live in an area I have no family in. My profession is significantly transient, so friends come and go locally, and at 58 under those circumstances, friends who are readily available have been difficult to maintain. When she does go out like I mentioned, I stay busy, go to the gym those sort of things. Saturdays, I take advantage of local meetup group activities and find ways to live my life outside of her. It's definitely challenging for me as I've gotten into a very bad habit of relying on my relationships for the network of friends, and also I've found that making close male friends is really difficult. I certainly have my network, but they are outside of where I currently live. What you touch on is something I'm trying to improve upon.

Mirror her behavior. When she is out, you make plans, if she isn't putting in the effort, then don't run after her trying to make plans, it won't help someone who isn't interested enough be interested, put in what you are getting back out again.

Yes!! Thanks for reinforcing this for me.

So last night was Friday out with my gf going out with her friend. I honestly don't know if I'm way off base and need to dial back, or whether this is a valid concern. I just know what I feel, and it's not good.

She spent Thursday night over, and all was great. She acknowledged she was going out with her friend when I dropped her back at her place Friday morning. I didn't hear from her until about 1:49 p.m. Friday when she texted she came across a free ottoman someone was giving away in her building, she thought I'd like it. Random I thought, but I thanked her and told her it was nice.

Didn't hear a word until 9 p.m. when she sent a pic of her and her friend out. A brief text exchange and that was that. By 1130 p.m. I was wondering wtf, is she home safe, still out. So I called her. Her and her friend were clearly drunk and walking home to her apartment in a suburb of DC. Kind of a city environment, and definitely a safety concern for me as her bf and someone who cares about her. We hung up, I wasn't happy. About 30 minutes go by, and I'm wondering if she got home ok, so I called her again, just about the same time she sent me a Goodnight text which I didn't see.

Between having no idea where she was out, no communication leading up to going out, her not asking or wondering (or caring??) what I was doing last night, being drunk, out kinda late and just a general sense that her friend wishes she was single so she could have a full time drinking partner, I lost it a bit and asked her if she wanted to be in this relationship. Her response was we'll talk tomorrow, and we hung up. That boiled with me for about 30 minutes, because I realized she didn't say yes. So I texted her, BTW when someone you care about asks you if you want to be in the relationship, the appropriate response should be yes. She texted back, Nothing has changed and you know how I feel about you. Let's talk tomorrow (with a heart).

She called me at 1130 a.m. today, and left a vm to call her back. I texted her that I was on my way to do a hike with a meetup group. She responded, Okay, have fun. I wasn't ready to talk to her yet.

I just don't know if I'm being hyper sensitive, or whether this is all legitimate. I just know a lot of it doesn't feel quite right and I don't like having to wonder where she is, or whether she is ok and seemingly another Saturday where I'm making plans without her and she's going out of town Monday for a week to (again) lend emotional support and help to her other friend.

[This message edited by Kintsugi at 12:19 PM, May 22nd (Saturday)]

OK, you called her twice on a night she was out with her friend. Then you asked her about the status of the relationship when she was clearly intoxicated. This is an unhealthy dynamic and I think you need to back off. I would not reach out. At the very least, let her make the next move. Be non-committal and watch her actions.

Or if you've had enough, just end it.

Relationships are hard. I'm sorry. Take care of you first.

[This message edited by WhoTheBleep at 1:00 PM, May 22nd (Saturday)]

Trust your gut Kintsugi. It’s screaming at you to listen.

Kintsugi,

I went back and read your thread about your breakup the end of last June of a 3+ year relationship with your fiancé. I’m paraphrasing, but you mentioned how you felt she was everything you ever wanted. Mid August it seemed you were still coming to grips with the loss of that woman.

Now you are 7+ months into a relationship with a phenomenal new woman and were discussing and could see long term potential.

How much time did you genuinely take to explore and focus on what did not work regarding your communication style, stonewalling, etc.? Or did you revert to dating again in short order?

I see plenty of red flags with her drinking behaviors...all that have already been mentioned. What have you done to be a healthier partner, is your “picker” broken and in need of a serious tune up?

I honestly don't know if I'm way off base and need to dial back, or whether this is a valid concern. I just know what I feel, and it's not good.

I think it’s both tbh. She is a grown woman and if her choice is to go out and get drunk with her friend and take risks getting home, it is her choice and she is free to do it if she wants.

That said, I was exactly the same as you with my WW exbf. He’d go out and be so drunk he was a danger to himself,. He still is. I’d be texting, worried sick about him and he’d wander in and do it all again next week. You cannot change that behaviour, they won’t listen no matter how much you want them to anyway. You can only control your reaction to it.

It’s also fine to not be ok with that behaviour but you need to consider it more as a behaviour she shows which is a relationship dealbreaker, rather than something you can nag her into stopping.

The texts and demanding a relationship talk at night when she is drunk is daft tbh. It’s counter-productive because nobody can have a serious conversation when they are drunk and you really need to make sure communication you have together is set up to be positive and has a chance of being successful in getting your point across, the circumstances here meant that this conversation was always doomed to failure. There is a very useful book called Crucial conversations (might be available online as a PDF) which is good for showing how to have difficult conversations well.

Personally, having been with someone like your GF, I would consider ending it. Drinking like that often doesn’t stop on the Friday and you’ll never stop being worried for her well-being, irritated because she puts it above everything else and left feeling like second best. It’s mentally tiring and rarely worth it - find someone more suited to your own habits.

Hi Kintsugi. What’s your 20 with the GF?

the kids thing I understand since I have kids that age. I dont involve them in my dating life, even tho I may tell them who I am with or whats happening. I dont think they would want to hang w a guy I was with or want them around someone I dont know if I would be with long term since 7months is not super new but still in the phase of will I be w him long term or not. Im also super protective of my kids but the older ones have their own life so this would probably be odd for them unless it was a bonfire at my house or something.

now the drinking, HUGE no no unless you are ok with that. for me, drinking over 2 drinks when out, even 3 times a month is not ok in my book. I add all that up quick. I dont like people w addiction or need to alter themselves to have fun or be happy.

I think you know where this is going. she sounds like she is trying to act 25 and thats embarrassing when you are all the age you are, starting over. its not "fun" its her crutch. ew

I just don't know if I'm being hyper sensitive, or whether this is all legitimate. I just know a lot of it doesn't feel quite right and I don't like having to wonder where she is, or whether she is ok and seemingly another Saturday where I'm making plans without her and she's going out of town Monday for a week to (again) lend emotional support and help to her other friend.

No you're not being "hypersensitive", you gut is screaming at you, this "solid" woman won't give up GNOs every Friday, you know what happens in those bars/clubs right ?, a person committed to a "solid" relationship who respects her/his partner won't put herself in that vulnerable position and have the partner "wonder" where she/he is, safety concerns and all that it entails, a grown woman respects her partner, IMHO this woman has shown you she does not respect you enough to stop going to bars/clubs every Friday night, btw GNOs are notorious for ONSs, I mean there's a reason for it, a club/bar packed with lots of horny people getting drunk and lots of flirting is a recipe for disaster, I'm sorry but I don't see her as "solid" and frankly the contrary, NOT solid AT ALL.

I would not have a problem with the "OCCASIONAL" GNO at this stage (dating) and when I say "occasional" I mean once every few months, two or three times a year, but NOT during a M, during a M it could happen once in a blue moon and special circumstances/events. Tell her you're not comfortable with this unhealthy dynamic and that it needs to stop NOW if she wants to continue the relationship, then watch her actions, if she refuses to do it, end the relationship right then and there.

Hi Kintsugi. What’s your 20 with the GF?

Thanks for asking Absolution... here we go lol.

IMHO this woman has shown you she does not respect you enough to stop going to bars/clubs every Friday night, btw GNOs are notorious for ONSs, I mean there's a reason for it, a club/bar packed with lots of horny people getting drunk and lots of flirting is a recipe for disaster...

Thanks Buster. This weekend she made the confession she was "oversexed." GREAT I initially thought - right after I looked it up in the dictionary lol. But then I thought of this very thing and said holy s*it.

The day after her last night out with her friend on May 21 we had a deep conversation about the previous night... me calling, my concerns about the resurrection of the weekly GNO activities, her safety.

To recap the evening in question, turns out she went to dinner at a casual outdoor place with her friend and then to the bar her friend frequents. About 8:30 p.m. she did send me a pic of her and her friend out at dinner. Then radio silent. Around 1130 I was beginning to worry and I called and she and her friend were walking home clearly drunk. She texted me when she got home, and we had a brief heated text exchange and agreed to talk the next day.

The discussion the day after surrounded all the concerns being addressed - the drinking that leads to unsafe activities, the routine weekly nature of GNO when in a committed relationship, and the perception of very single-like activity on her part when her friend is clearly looking for a man - even stated by my GF. I didn't feel good in the conversation. I don't like feeling as if I'm being overbearing or controlling. But it wasn't about any of that. I have genuine concerns and fears about it - both on a safety level and I think now on a relationship level. I do trust her, but her friend is very friendly and has no issue inviting strangers into the social dynamic. One previous time my GF had to shut down the both of them being invited and possibly going to a private party that strangers had invited them to that night. Her friend was all in.

One thing I didn't like in our discussion was a statement she made that she met her friend before me. She did, about three weeks before. I hope she intended this to be in regard to the establishment of the weekly GNO in the first place, but at the moment I took it to be an indicator of priority, and rightly so. She stated just a few weeks ago they were going being weekly GNO again. I hope I was wrong but am watching her actions closely to support a possible misperception.

She has acknowledged and understands my concerns about the weekly nature of GNO. Since that night she hasn't been on a GNO - she was out of town the next Friday and she and I went to dinner this past Friday. I asked her if her friend contacted her about going out, she said no. I find that hard to believe, but I'll take it at face value as her GF has two daughters and maybe she had other things going on.

We're planning on going out of town next week, so I fully expect this Friday to be in play for GNO. We've been spending a lot of great time together and I think she is making an effort having seen empathy from her for my concerns. I have to give her space to do her own thing from time to time so pushback on my part could be counter productive this week, so I'm just going to take the great advice given earlier the best I can to watch with eyes wide open void of emotion.

The weekly nature of GNO aside, I think my concerns could all be mitigated with the right actions. The photo at dinner was great. Maybe had she sent me a quick text "at bar X" and "on my way home" and "home" I'd be fine. Part of our discussion surrounded the nature of things I'm used to in a relationship, and things I'm not. I'm just used to having that sort of back and forth in my relationships and when it doesn't happen, the spidy senses kick in. That sort of communication is normal and healthy IMO. Life has been such to insert naturally recurring breaks into GNO, so we'll see.

We were driving locally the other day and went past a restaurant/bar that I learned they had gone to on one of their very first GNO evenings. I learned she walked home that night and down a very darkly lit path (if lit at all) that leads to her apartment while talking to her sister on her phone. This is the sort of stuff that scares the crap out of me, and my reaction to hearing that was noticeable and definitely indicted it.

Final thought... Her daughter is home with her from school for the summer. I've interacted some with them and on another occasion Memorial Day she zoomed with her other daughter and there was interaction with me there as well. All good on that front and I certainly respect her pace in that arena.

[This message edited by Kintsugi at 12:50 PM, June 8th (Tuesday)]

A new romance takes a lot of maneuvering. You don’t know each other’s rules. Explanation, we all have formal, spoken rues. Look before crossing. Don’t run with science. The informal, unspoken ones trip us up. One of your rukes is don’t do something stupid like getting drunk and walking home. Her rule might be don’t bother me when I am out with my buddy. You have to maneuver and compromise. If you can’t get your unspoken rules to align you run into problems. Open up. Ask questions. Don’t nag. Don’t look desperate.

The photo at dinner was great. Maybe had she sent me a quick text "at bar X" and "on my way home" and "home" I'd be fine. Part of our discussion surrounded the nature of things I'm used to in a relationship, and things I'm not. I'm just used to having that sort of back and forth in my relationships and when it doesn't happen, the spidy senses kick in. That sort of communication is normal and healthy IMO.

Well... maybe. That sort of communication is necessary and understandable when one party has done something to make the other feel they are untrustworthy. But if a person I had been dating for several months said that they wanted photos and check-ins along every step of my night out with a friend --I'm here, here's the proof, I'm leaving, I'm home -- that would be a red flag to me. I'm an adult who is out with a friend, and I am not accountable for every move I make. Now, if the problem is that I demonstrate poor judgment when I'm out, that's a red flag, but maybe the answer there is that I'm a lousy prospect for a relationship, not that I need to be constantly monitored.

If you're dating someone who is fine with that level of frequent check-ins, great. If she finds it a bit odd but is willing to do it to make you happy, great. But if she says "I'll be busy with Sue Friday night, and I'll talk to you Saturday morning," that's not an inherently suspicious attitude. Quite frankly, if my daughter's boyfriend wanted that level of tracking of her movements, I would be deeply uneasy. I'd also be unhappy if she were getting blind ass drunk and hanging out with bad influences, but him appointing himself as her monitor would not be a healthy solution.

You started this thread by saying that the red flags in her background didn't concern you because she's a solid person who has her shit together. If that's true, I think you should challenge yourself to back off and give her some space. If it isn't true, maybe you need to take a closer look at those red flags.

BraveSirRobin broke it down beautifully. Read every word she wrote. Then read it again.

I 100% agree with what BraveSirRobin said.

What we ask of a cheater to rebuild trust is not always acceptable when in a new relationship. If I were dating someone that wanted pics as proof that I was where I said I was, that would be the end of us. And I would be very insulted and angry.

You also mention her walking home at night in a place you do not find safe. She is allowed to make that choice for herself.

If you don't like her behavior you can end the relationship. But I think asking for a photo proof of where she is (unless she has cheated on you) is way inappropriate to ask for.

Well... maybe. That sort of communication is necessary and understandable when one party has done something to make the other feel they are untrustworthy. But if a person I had been dating for several months said that they wanted photos and check-ins along every step of my night out with a friend --I'm here, here's the proof, I'm leaving, I'm home -- that would be a red flag to me.

But I think asking for a photo proof of where she is (unless she has cheated on you) is way inappropriate to ask for.

Thanks all. To be clear, I haven't asked for check-ins or photos.

I do think however there is a certain degree of courtesy extended when in a committed relationship, much like she asked me last night after I left her place to text her when I got home. We all have a past and possible triggers as a result of that past. She knows I was cheated on. I know she cheated on her first husband.

She knows my concerns from a safety and fidelity perspective, I worry about people I care about and won't apologize for that and don't think I'm unique in that regard. I also made it clear that weekly GNO IMO seems like a very single-like activity.

Framing a courtesy extended when in a committed relationship as "requiring proof" isn't capturing the intent of my original sentiment. I simply think there are little things that go a long way in a healthy relationship when you care and respect the other person and their experience to help them feel safe and secure, especially in an dynamic of going out to weekly GNO at a bar with a single GF who is actively seeking a bf and who is very socially friendly with a network of acquaintances, many of which are men, at the bar.

To me the courtesy I'm referring to is part of healthy emotional connection and I'm not talking about requiring check-ins or photos as --->proof of anything. If I was in a relationship with someone who took this courtesy as requiring proof, that to me would be a very big red flag. The photos she sent were nice, and I thanked her for doing so and told her to have fun, but I certainly didn't expect it or require it as a check-in.

[This message edited by Kintsugi at 12:45 PM, June 9th (Wednesday)]

Kintsugi, it sounds like she causes a lot of anxiety for you. I do agree that doing a weekly GNO seems like a single person lifestyle. But she doesn't. It doesn't mean she is wrong and that you are right or I am right, but it might mean she isn't the one for you.

I do agree that doing a weekly GNO seems like a single person lifestyle.

I kind of think it's healthy. To me, it's not healthy to drop the GNO because you have a boyfriend. That feels like you can only do friend things if you're single, but if you have a guy you're on lockdown or something. I don't like it. A man who was bothered by that would be a red flag to me. I would find it fun to go out with girlfriends and drink a little too much one night per week. My kids are old enough to not need me here and that just sounds like a blast to me. I have zero problems with alcohol. No addiction issues. It just sounds like a great time and a neat weekly just for myself thing in my 40s. Living life and being free. You can do that while still being a loyal girlfriend.

But that's just me and we're all going to have our own opinions on these things. We all look at relationship rules a little differently.

**Posting as a member**

I have to agree with BraveSirRobin. It's a huge red flag.

Didn't hear a word until 9 p.m. when she sent a pic of her and her friend out. A brief text exchange and that was that. By 1130 p.m. I was wondering wtf, is she home safe, still out. So I called her. Her and her friend were clearly drunk and walking home to her apartment in a suburb of DC. Kind of a city environment, and definitely a safety concern for me as her bf and someone who cares about her. We hung up, I wasn't happy. About 30 minutes go by, and I'm wondering if she got home ok, so I called her again, just about the same time she sent me a Goodnight text which I didn't see.

Between having no idea where she was out, no communication leading up to going out, her not asking or wondering (or caring??) what I was doing last night, being drunk, out kinda late and just a general sense that her friend wishes she was single so she could have a full time drinking partner, I lost it a bit and asked her if she wanted to be in this relationship. Her response was we'll talk tomorrow, and we hung up. That boiled with me for about 30 minutes, because I realized she didn't say yes. So I texted her, BTW when someone you care about asks you if you want to be in the relationship, the appropriate response should be yes. She texted back, Nothing has changed and you know how I feel about you. Let's talk tomorrow (with a heart).

I have to say that when I read this all I thought was "stage 5 clinger". She handled it much better than I would have because I would have been pissed if my SO did this while I was out with a friend. You'd already had a text exchange and then you had to call her, but that wasn't enough, so you call her again. Even the next day when she tells you you guys can talk later, you still have to force the issue and call again, and then text. To me, this wasn't about worry as much as it was about control.

I haven't asked for check-ins

Yet, you call her repeatedly which is essentially making her check in. She's a grown woman who can take care of herself.

I'm not sure you're as healed as you think you are, Kintsugi.

Between having no idea where she was out, no communication leading up to going out, her not asking or wondering (or caring??) what I was doing last night, being drunk, out kinda late and just a general sense that her friend wishes she was single so she could have a full time drinking partner, I lost it a bit and asked her if she wanted to be in this relationship. Her response was we'll talk tomorrow, and we hung up.

This, alone would have been enough for me. Yet, you managed to put a cherry on the top:

That boiled with me for about 30 minutes, because I realized she didn't say yes. So I texted her, BTW when someone you care about asks you if you want to be in the relationship, the appropriate response should be yes.

As a grown, independent woman who might occasionally enjoy a GNO and who has an SO of 11 years that would be okay with that totally, this is beyond the pale.

"Hey, I'm going out with Sue. Probably be late--I'll text you when I get in," is all I would probably say to my SO. And I would text him when I was home and safe. NBD.

But to start calling her and then to ask her if she wants to be in a relationship is just too much.

I'm thinking you're not healed enough and she's likely not the right person. Maybe you should think about things and perhaps take some alone time to heal up.

Does the fact that she cheated play into this at all?

Cat

I do think however there is a certain degree of courtesy extended when in a committed relationship, much like she asked me last night after I left her place to text her when I got home.

Have you guys communicated your expectations on this subject?

Me and my SO always have a 'good night' text. That is just standard in our relationship. We always text that we made it home ok. If I was out with GF's, he knows I will text when I made it home, etc.

Do you have some sort of established protocol like that?

Like if she is going out, do you say 'Please text me and let me you made it home safely'?

If not, maybe you need to discuss that to elevate all this.

Your texts/contact on that night she did go out give me negative feelings as well. I would not have appreciated that at all.

Unless she just moved to the city, she is well aware of the issues with navigating at night (in dark alleys, etc).

The bottom line is many things have been screaming to your gut in this post string. I know you are confident on where you are in your healing process. I get that. Each year I thought "Hey - I am good"....then a year later I realized how much better I was since the year prior. That went on for probably five years! Be kind to yourself with it.