SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So I have taken the advice I have gotten from many people on here. My problem is that I feel stuck with my husband. I am the one who lied, cheated and ruined my marriage. I have taken steps to improve myself and doom my best to be there for my husband. I'm always told no matter what I say or do will never be good enough. That the damaged is done. I have tried many times to apologize but I am told it's too late I should have never cheated. I try to talk or listen when I feel my husband is hurt or just to ask how he is. He pushes me away. Then later tells me that I'm not doing enough. AT times I stop saying sorry or ask how he is since it feels like it's not good enough. I am just told I'll always be a cheater and just because I have stopped the affair that doesn't mean anything. It's hard to be be there for my husband when he doesn't want anything from me since I was the one who betrayed him. Alot of things trigger my husband and it just makes it hard to be there for him. I feel terrible for hurting my husband and being so selfish. I do hope we can get through this. We have talked about divorce but we haven't gone through with it. He had an idea in Nov but found out in dec. I still feel that he is stuck and still in alot of pain. During this time last year was the affair. So I know that triggers him alot. Instead of focusing on looking for a home and to have a baby. I was too busy with another man. I was in therapy I am taking a break because of insurance and same Roth my husband. I am just lost on how I can be there for him without getting the cold shoulder. I don't blame my husband for the affair I have taken full responsibility. My husband has admitted to his abuse towards me but it's hard to talk about when the main focus is my affair. I am told we can't really talk or focus on that until my husband heals from the affair.

No stop sign. BW here.

First, I know that IC can be expensive and hard to find. The next best thing IMO is READING. And podcasts. Both are free.

As the WW, you have to understand the trauma you have caused. You are not safe. And if he found out in December? 6 months is not even remotely enough time for him to feel safe, even if you've been hard at work (which you have not been, if you are still questioning his reactions).

Suggested reading:

Not Just Friends (Glass)

How to Help Your Spouse Heal

Courageous Love (workbook by Stefanie Carnes for the couple - walks you through steps)

Gifts of Imperfection (Brene Brown)

Suggested podcasts:

The Addicted Mind two parter on Infidelity

Helping Couples Heal (Breeker and Osterlind)

You have to work on yourself while you are working on becoming a safe partner. If you don't do the work on you, it won't matter if you are married or not, because you will take the same issues into any relationship. Do it for yourself. And don't expect your H to "get over it" in a certain amount of time. Trauma changes you on a cellular level. It isn't gotten "over", it becomes a part of you.

Breathe. It takes time Patty21. Our MC once described the process of recovering from infidelity as being similar to recovering from a broken knee. It takes a long as it takes. You could throw 100 doctors at it, it would still take months. Your husband had his world ripped out from under him. Nothing is the same anymore, nothing. He cannot possibly trust you. But now he also can't trust anyone, because if you would do this to him, and you are supposed to have his back, then anyone could turn on him and betray him. Odds are good that he might blame himself as well, and feel like a sucker for trusting you blindly. So, for now, just give it some time. I know it hurts. I know it is hard. And bear in mind, often infidelity is a deal-breaker no matter what you do moving forward. Expect that.

I'm not familiar with what your husband's abuse towards you was, however, if your life/health is not in danger, then my advice is to drop the convo about his abuse ENTIRELY for now. It's hard to try and love and trust someone when they blew up your world with a nuclear bomb. It's even harder when that person turns around and points a finger at you while you are laying there bleeding from the bomb they dropped on you. From his point of view, the affair was about you and what you need, wanting to reconcile is about you and what you need, wanting to discuss his failures in the marriage is about you and what you need... it's all about you. Constantly. And the last time you felt that way, he got hurt and f'd over. And guess what? It's still about you. About your hurt. About what you need from him. When he looks in your eyes, he doesn't see his own reflection there. And that makes him feel as if you don't care at all.

I'm not trying to point fingers at you here, that's not my intention at all. Rather, I just want to help you to step inside of his head for a moment, to see things from his point of view, and understand that right now, the mere fact that the man hasn't divorced you and written you off as dead is actually him compromising his own health and sanity.

My advice is to continue working on yourself for now. Whether he chooses D or R is inconsequential right now, and at the moment, he has no reason to believe that anything about you is different now than it was when you had the affair. If he stays, you will need to be more emotionally healthy in order for R to occur and succeed to any degree. If he chooses to leave, you need to make sure you don't bring that same brokenness into future relationships. So... it's all about you. Don't ask him to stay. Give him reasons to stay. Show him that you are willing to sacrifice for him, in the same way you sacrificed him for your needs.

The first year of R is constant hell. There are good days and there are bad days, but in truth, you are just swimming in the aftermath of the affair right now. It is much too soon to ask for, or to expect, things to get better.

I will suggest this. Soon after D-day, my wife asked me to separate our finances. Soon after that, she asked for a postnup, giving her the lion's share of the profits from selling our home, and removing me from her 401k, life insurance, etc. She wanted to know that if D was her decision, that it would already be decided on and dealt with. I struggled with that, which I later realized was just me being selfish again, and not making the attempt to sacrifice for my spouse. Now I am glad we did it. It helped her to feel a little safer, and that's the goal, right? To make our betrayed spouses feel safer, and to help them to feel as if we still have a once of care in the world for their well-being?

How about this? Offer him a postnup, one in his favor, with whatever split of assets he is comfortable with. Tell him it's not what you want, but that you'll do this for him so he can take one piece of stress off of his plate. I wish I had offered that to my spouse. I did not, and I was an ass for not doing it. Maybe that will help him to see that you are willing to throw yourself and your own needs under the bus, for his direct welfare. Which is the opposite of selfish. And the opposite of selfishness is what he wants to see in you. Even if things don't work out, the postnup will make things easier in the long run, and you will know exactly where you stand financially, with no fights over property and money. It's a step in the right direction anyway.

I don't know when your dday was. I would ask your husband to come back and post asking for advice from people in the Reconciliation forum. I really think you two need IC, there is a lot to work through.

I can understand what your husband is saying to a point or at least in the beginning. Yes you will have always cheated (past). But that doesn't mean you will always be a cheater (current).

If he truly believes he can't move forward no matter what you do - there is no reconciling. Is that what he really means? Or is he just expressing that he feels hopeless and like he will never feel better? I think it is normal to feel that way when you are struggling. But if he is sure that no matter what you do, it isn't working out, then what is the point of being together at all?

I know people here really don't like the idea of MC in the beginning but it is the only thing keeping us going right now. You guys need a MC (if you go that route) that specializes in infidelity and you need to call them ahead of time and explain a little of what is going on. Why MC is working for us right now is because there is no work for me to do. It is all on WS. That will not be the case forever, but we are still within 6 months of me even finding out. So to be clear - MC is working for us because the MC is telling my WS what I need in a way he can understand, and the MC is explaining to me what the process looks like.

I don't know what to say. I have a real hard time telling a woman she must sacrifice for her abusive husband. I have a really hard time telling her she needs to work on being a safe partner, when she is in an unsafe relationship. All the things I would typically tell a WW, to make herself vulnerable, etc, seem like bad advice,when the BH is abusive..and has been abusive throughout the entire marriage. HIS WORDS,not hers.

OP..I'm afraid what you want isn't possible. It's hard enough when there wasn't/isn't admitted abuse by the BH. But what you want, is for him to be someone he isn't. He is an abuser. He is not working on himself. He isn't working on it in IC, or anywhere else that he's admitted to. Your affair has now given him an excuse to be abusive. As long as he continues to be ok with being an abuser, you can run around in circles, doing everything possible, and none of it will matter.

I think this is a special situation. This isn't a WW who is telling us she's being abused. This is a WW, whose husband is a member, and has admitted to the abuse,both before the affair, and ongoing.

While you should do the work on yourself, for YOURSELF, I just can't advise an abused woman to make herself more vulnerable to an abusive man.

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:27 PM, June 15th (Tuesday)]

Actually.....I have not been abusive and if my wife thinks that I am still abusive then I would like her to tell me in what way/shape/form I am abusive........

Everytime my wife posts she hears from Hellfire about my abuse and it's really frustrating because I have not been. So if I am I would like to know how. Is me telling her that I feel like shit abusive? Is me telling her she is a cheat abusive? Is me telling her that I don't know what I want abusive? I would like to know what is abusive ..

How about we focus on her abuse.....she lied to me for months about wanting to buy a home and start a family. Little did I know she was fucking another man. How about all the times she yelled at me for not being good enough? How about when deep down I knew something was up and she gaslit me.....how about all the times she continues to blame shift and bring up the past abuse anytime I try to talk about the affair. Is that abuse? How about her telling me that just because someone was nice she was willing to throw away everything we have ever been through. I may have been an ass but I didn't deserve to get this done to me. No one does. We moved to start a family. I sacrificed a lot to get a home and watch my step son while she was going out and banging another man. All while still sleeping with me. Camel out.

[This message edited by Camel at 1:56 PM, June 15th (Tuesday)]

You have admitted your abuse in past posts.

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:56 PM, June 15th (Tuesday)]

In the thread, "three months post cheating, lost" you admit emotional and verbal abuse, past and present.

You admit to still being abusive in a later post, when asked if it was still happening.

I see that 3 weeks ago you admit to still being abusive, but you are working on it in IC, so I'm glad to know you are working on it.

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:55 PM, June 15th (Tuesday)]

And here I am trying to understand how I am still being abusive because I do not think I am. So I will let my wife chime in.

I don't know, sir. Only you can answer that since abuse in a relational context is about control. It is not about the words you say or things your do, it is using those words or actions to produce a desired effect to influence or direct the target of the communication. What is the reason for commandeering your wife's thread?

Camel, if you call her names and put her down, even in arguments, that is abuse. I'm not talking about calling her a cheater or selfish. Telling her she is worthless, telling her she can never change, and especially saying things like that about her in front of others as a way to humiliate her. Talking badly about her in front of her son is abusive full stop. To both her and him.

If you really believe she is crying abuse as a way to make you look in order to manipulate people on the forum and her IC into giving her sympathy and not holding her fully responsible for the A, you need to be leaving her alone and looking for a divorce lawyer. Not coming here to hash it out publicly. Posting and demanding an answer from her does not make you look any less guilty.

I think in this case, pre-affair issues do play into this. You were in an abusive relationship (admitted to by your BH) leading up to the affair (for the whole relationship, if I recall). Whether or not that abuse is still happening is another story (if it is still happening, it needs to stop, even if that means you walking away).

I feel like what you're saying is the abuse is one of your whys, and people are just telling you to push it aside to focus on the affair. Well if it's a reason why for the affair, then it really can't be pushed aside. I could be way off of course, but I can totally see how it would be part of the why, and the reason you keep bringing it up.

Now before I get blasted, it's still NOT AN EXCUSE FOR AN AFFAIR, that choice is still on the cheater and there are other choices, but it could be part of what leads somebody to rationalizing something like an affair, and it needs to be addressed (plus whether people like it or not, lasting verbal/physical abuse does actually take it's toll and can change a person - you can't keep kicking a puppy and then get pissed when it bites you). People dig in on FOO, past abuses, etc., in order to change after an affair, and this is really no different aside from it's more recent.

If this is still too raw for your BH to even address the abuse, that's where IC comes in for you to talk it through with, but at some point, you need to come together as a couple and address it as something that deeply hurt you and the marriage. It needs to be addressed so that your whys are adequately addressed so you don't cheat again, and his abusive behaviors are adequately addressed so he stops being an abuser.

Also, I get that it's only 6 months out, but at some point you need to be able discuss things as adults. If it always devolves into you'll never change, I hate you, etc., then that is not healthy for either of you and at some point needs to stop. I don't think people get a free pass to be constantly lashing out forever and ever. He needs to get IC for himself to address his pain. You may very well have broken him, but he has some responsibility in putting himself back together (and trust me, that is not easy to accept!!!).

Coming back after reading these responses.

I still think you 100% need to keep working on yourself no matter what you decide.

That said, with the topic of verbal/emotional abuse coming up, if you feel like the situation is not healthy, perhaps you could look into a therapeutic separation? Usually you'd have the facilitation of therapists to go along with it, but with your IC struggles, not sure that is possible? It doesn't mean you have to divorce, but the time physically apart might be helpful for you each to work on yourselves and decide what you want your futures to look like, whether together or separately.

My husband hasn't abused me verbally or emotionally. At times I find it frustrating when I do try to talk and ask how he is or if something triggers him. I try to ask how he is. He just pushes me away. When he is angry he tells me I haven't done anything to help him or that I don't show empathy. My son can say he loves him or he is sorry he is going through this. If I say anything like that. He tells me that I didn't love him or I should have thought of that before. I feel like even when I explain why I cheated that he thinks I am blaming him. I know I should have communicated more to my husband on how I was feeling. I let his abuse be a reason to give up and just be selfish on my own needs. Rather then reaching out to my husband. I don't think care what th outcome was. Since I had a history or sexual, verbal, physical and emotional abuse. When I get hurt I tend to lash out and make bad choices. I take full responsibility but I really try to not make it about me. it's not a good feeling when I see things about people cheating and I am part of that group. That I wasn't loyal to my husband even if things were rough in our marriage. I feel ashamed that I am that kind of person. That no matter all the good things I did in my relationship that it means nothing because of my choice to cheat and hurt my family. I have told my husband how sorry I am. I go into dept about it and he just tells me thanks for ruining everything and how it will never be the same. Deep down I do feel sorry that I ruined my marriage. that I might lose my husband the house we got together to start a family. I have my son and just the thought I might not have kids with my husband. I beat myself up on how I robbed my husband of this journey together. My relationship wasn't doing well and I made it worse. I don't know if we will get through this. I damaged my husband to the point he doesn't think he could ever trust me and nothing we share now even means anything to him. I feel empty and I know I ripped his heart out. His will to live at times. He doesn't enjoy things anymore. I was suppose to be there and I wasn't. I have told him these things but somehow it's not enough. that's why I do feel lost and trying to be there for him. It does hurt that he tells me I am a cheater no matter what even though I have stopped the affair. I even started a new job. I don't hide anything from him. I am doing all these work but I think it hurts him because I should have done this before the affair.

Ok, I'm confused. He hasn't abused you physically. He hasn't abused you verbally or emotionally. So how HAS he abused you? What is it he's done for you to say that he has been abusive?

Well in our past he was abusive but I haven't mentioned that because I was told I need to focus on the affair. Also since he has know about the affair he has told me no matter what I do I will always be a cheater. He had said in front of our son. He has talked about the affair or made comments around our son. He continues to tell me I'm a cheater even though I have been working on being a safe partner. When he is angry and we talk about the affair he tells me that I will not change and no amount of work will change his mind. I haven't mentioned at all about the abuse. It's been awhile. He is the one who admitted to the verbal/emotional abuse. When he does try to bring me down. I tell him that he can't treat me that way. I do express how I feel. I know he has the right to feel angry, hurt, confused, I took his dignity away from I crushed his soul. I really do try to be on his level or try to listen he chooses to push me away and continues to tell me that I should have thought of this before the affair. That there is nothing to fix. We go in circles. Calls me a hoe for my actions. Tells me I am horrible. Has said I will go to hell. That I will always be a cheater in his eyes no matter how many changes I make. So no on Thai thread I didn't mention abuse. I mentioned that I feel lost and that I feel I'm going in circles. If I am not meeting his expectations then I'm not trying. If I don't read enough say sorry ask about rh affair then I don't care. But I had family in town so I haven't read but I did pick up a book and I did start yesterday. I read it at night before I sleep. I have apologized many times and I am told I should have thought about that before that it's not good enough. I don't just sat sorry I go into dept of what I'm sorry for. I ask how he is. He tells me not to worry about him. I try to listen or talk and he pushes me away. So it's confusing for me to be on his level if he doesn't allow me to. He tells me I need to give up my hobbies and only focus on being there for him and figuring out why I cheated.when I do answer on my why he tells me it's not good enough or I blame him. I haven't blamed him in a long time. I'm just trying to get some advice because I feel I'm at square one and if that's part of the process then I just have to accept that

He is the one who admitted to the verbal/emotional abuse. When he does try to bring me down. I tell him that he can't treat me that way. I do express how I feel. I know he has the right to feel angry, hurt, confused, I took his dignity away from I crushed his soul. I really do try to be on his level or try to listen he chooses to push me away and continues to tell me that I should have thought of this before the affair. That there is nothing to fix. We go in circles. Calls me a hoe for my actions. Tells me I am horrible. Has said I will go to hell. That I will always be a cheater in his eyes no matter how many changes I make.

This is verbal and emotional abuse. Because it's not sharing his pain with you as much as he's punishing you and coming up with a justification as to why he will always need to punish you. If you can never redeem yourself then he will always have just cause to treat you poorly.

He tells me I need to give up my hobbies and only focus on being there for him and figuring out why I cheated.

This is isolation which is part of the abusive cycle. If he's not allowing you to talk to other people about it and limiting your time with them, that too is part of it.

If he was worse than this before, I really don't see how it can be healthy for you to stay married to him. I think there is still an abusive pretense to how he is lashing out at you now even if he is also hurt by the A. He seems hyper focused on punishing you indefinitely and no one, not even someone who cheated, deserves to be punished forever. You said you took our advice but I doubt that because many of us advised you to focus on yourself and to stop getting caught up in whatever he's doing and demanding. I suppose that must feel impossible though when any step you take to disengage and try to heal on your own comes off as an affront to him. But you are the only one who can stop this, even if it means separation. You can leave the room when he starts in on you and refuse to talk to him until he calms down and speaks respectfully to you. You choose to cater to his tantrums and they're certainly not going to stop if you're not willing to enforce some boundaries. Telling him to stop or that he can't talk to you that way doesn't mean much if you continue to participate in the argument.

You really do need to get back into IC.

Actually I do leave or walk away when he gets that way. He says I'm being a child and walking away from my problems. He gets mad when he wants to talk he wants me to listen but he asks questions so I answer and he tells me all I do is talk. I have tried to focus on myself and he tells me I still don't get it. That all I am focused on is myself. That I continue to blame him for the affair. I have shared why I cheated and saying that I was selfish isn't a good why. Or how I was angry and I lashed out because I let him to hurt me and I didn't communicate enough to him. So I decided to get attention from someone. I do have my mom and cousin to talk to when some days are tough. I tell him he needs to work on himself to heal and how he can't keep saying to me. That no matter what I do it's not good enough that he should leave me if he really thinks that. I get why he is angry and scared. He likes to tell me that I don't read enough or listen to podcasts. But I like to do things on my own time. He has controlled in the past and that triggers me. I don't like that. I want to have control of my life and be able to do things when I want to. If I don't do it when he wants me to then I am not trying hard of enough. I get confused because some people say focus on yourself then I have people tell me that all I do is focus on myself and I still don't get it. So I just end of not knowing what to do.

I'm always told no matter what I say or do will never be good enough.

If that's the case, I don't understand why staying together is a good thing.

If you can't redeem yourself with your H, it looks to me like it's time to D. To R, you both have to work to build a new M that serves both of you. Neither of you is required to do the work. If one of you won't do the necessary work, I don't see how you can create that M.

SI's goal is to help people heal from infidelity. In some cases that includes R. In others, D.

It's unusual for a WS to go to pull the plug because the BS won't do the work of R. So what?

You still need to work on yourself, IMO. Your best bet is still to change yourself from betrayer to good partner, IMO.

But if the A is a deal killer, I don't think it matters who initiates the end of an M.

This thread is a great example of why it's so difficult to give advice to people when their partners are also on SI and obviously reading each other's threads. In these situations, I always wonder: Are they leaving out information that would make their spouse look bad because they don't want to upset them? Are they being completely honest about everything they did or how they are feeling? Are they using their posts on SI to manipulate or provoke a response from their spouse? Do they intend to use the comments as cannon fodder during arguments?

Personally, I have no interest in serving as a hypotenuse in anyone's attempts at triangulation. So here's my advice to both Camel and Patty21 going forward: If you want your time on SI to be productive, stay the fuck off each other's threads. Change your usernames if you have to and don't share them with one another.

And to Camel: Patty started a thread asking for advice on how to better support your healing and demonstrate remorse. Because you decided to chime in and argue with Hellfire for bringing up your preaffair abusive behavior that may or may not be ongoing, Patty is now talking about your behavior and actions instead of what she can do to improve herself.

How does that benefit you in any way? How does that help you build a better marriage? How forthcoming do you think Patty will be next time she seeks advice?

And on a final note...

How about we focus on her abuse.....she lied to me for months about wanting to buy a home and start a family.

If that's what you want to talk about, start your own damn thread.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 1:30 PM, June 16th (Wednesday)]