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If the AP knows you are married, are they blameless? I made the mistake of trying to accept all the blame for my cheating and said it isn't APs fault. Which sure sounds like defending the AP.

wantstorepire

First of all, no the AP is not blameless, but they do not burden as much blame to your BS as you do. They did not make a vow, to forsake all others, to your BS as you did, but they are, IMO, an "accessory" to your betrayal. If they had full knowledge of your marital status and ALL of the implications of crossing that boundary, then yes the AP does share some blame.
And I would caution against any remarks that could be perceived as "defending" the AP. From my own experience that can be extremely triggering.

It's a delicate balance. My AP pursued me hard. So... yeah, he initiated, and I accepted However, it was my decision to participate and my decision to further the A. So, blame is evenly distributed there in the A itself.

It may be different in other cases where the AP is single and initially unaware of their AP's spouse. There's enough cases that have come on here of that to know it's a real situation. In that case, the WS is to blame for starting the affair. The single AP is not responsible for the A until they find out the WS lied and was married. Then, if the A continues, it's on them.

In either case, is determining blame really helpful? We're here on Wayward because we made shitty decisions because we were rotting inside. Instead of looking at blame, why not concentrate on ownership and accountability. You are accountable to your BS for how you behaved during the A. The AP is accountable to their BS. The AP was a lying seducing douchebag, but you made the decision to have an A with them and are thus RESPONSIBLE for the A.

No stop sign. BS here.
Yes, saying AP is blameless, IMO is defending the AP. Which is a huge trigger for me, and I imagine most BS feel similarly.
Yes HE is responsible for his choices and is beholden to me. Not her. The OW didn't marry me.......
But, it is LEGITIMATE to feel dislike, disdain or even stronger emotions towards someone who knowingly set out to destroy my family, and to interfere in my marriage. I will NOT misplace the feelings about her I experienced in the post D-day s*** show (better now finally at meh) to ascribe more "fault" to my H than her. They are each responsible for the affair. It takes two.
Now, when it comes to healing our marriage and looking at his "why", of course the burden of responsibility for the A falls on my H.
Hope that makes sense.

BS here and no stop sign.

Yes - it sounds like you are defending AP. And comes across as a cowardly move to this BS

The WS is 100% responsible for their behavior. No matter who pursued who - or who did what to whom. WS is responsible for 100% of their own actions. Bottom line.

AP is 100% responsible for their own actions. Doesn’t matter how much pursuing, promises made, knowledge base, etc. AP is 100% responsible for AP.

Anything less sounds as lame as the excuses made by a teen caught foe breaking curfew 🙄

I've always said an AP only becomes an AP when the wayward spouse grants permission through words and actions, followed by secrecy. Prior to enabling an affair a potential AP is nothing more than a John or Jane Doe, individuals who live or work within our world. The pursuits or persistence of Jane or John Doe are irrelevant until the BS allows them to be.

When my fiancé cheated, I did not seek to identify her AP's name. I didn't want to dignify the existence of an individual who I should have never known existed. As a man, I know many men knock on doors to see who's opening the door, who cracks it open and who doesn't answer the door at all.

My fiancé not only answered the door, but granted entry literally and figuratively. What she was supposed to say was, "no thank you" and closed the door firmly. The AP would have just gone on to the next home (woman). If he kept knocking, ideally she would have told him, I'm calling the cops (exposure to husband, AP's wife or the employer) if I find you at my door again. That would put a permanent end to matters.

If a man or woman is smitten with the fact that the door keeps being knocked on, then an affair is born and the future AP will be back "shortly" asking if he or she can come in for a second. They know what they want and have the time and patience to get there. They also know when given the opportunity to enter the house, eventually they'll be in the foyer, then the kitchen and next thing you know, a room for intimacy.

Again though, none of this happens if the door was slammed in the face of the person knocking on it. A lonely housewife or low self esteemed husband are targets for adulterous perpetrators, however their will to engage or not is an adult decision of which they know can possibly result in severe consequences. AP's have and will live among us forever. How we decide to interact with them is through our own free will, weakened or not.

Of course it’s the AP’s fault. It’s your fault too. Why would you defend the AP in any way?

The AP knew I was married, but he still pursued me. I let him and developed a relationship that wasn’t appropriate for a married woman and then it escalated to an EA and then PA. That’s my responsibility. But he has responsibility for his part - I didn’t do this alone. I should have had healthier boundaries, communicated more with my BH, and put an end to our "friendship" when I started crisping lines I had no business crossing. But my role and ownership of my A does not absolve the AP from his role in any way, shape or form.

[This message edited by MrsWalloped at 9:09 PM, Monday, February 14th]

I agree. Both parties are responsible and have acted atrociously. Usually, the AP could not give a shit. So, blame him or her all you like. Does not matter to them. Just like some WS.

Is the AP blameless... in what regard? I like context in my questions :)

True, the AP wasn't married to your spouse and so it's impossible for them to "cheat" on your spouse. But they still did something harmful to your spouse, they took something of great value to your spouse, and tried to make it their own. They enabled and even encouraged you, the WS, to do the wrong thing and to cheat on your spouse, and so they take part of the blame there. And they betrayed their own sense of decency, and so they take the blame for that as well. It's not okay all around. I applaud your efforts to take the responsibility on yourself, and you should, but blame where blame is due. Defending the AP to your BS is not a good idea. BTW blaming the AP is also bad, as it implies you weren't responsible for your own actions somehow. So just let the AP takes their blame, and you take yours.

One other thing... just my opinion, but if the AP didn't know you were married, and called it off as soon as they found out, I would consider them blameless at that point, as long as those conditions existed and are true. It's common for WS's to lie about their marital status. I don't blame people for being lied to, only for what they do when they discover that lie.

I always default to Zugzwang on this question... he was a WS (who, while I'm glad for him moving on, I REALLY miss him here on SI).
Anyhow, Zug's BW put it like this: It feels as if you raped me, while your AP held me down.

So, while you have to be 100% accountable for your own actions, acting as if the AP had nothing to do with it likely will not sit well with most BS.

Another term I always appreciate is WantToBeHappy's "co-conspirator". I think that's an apt way to describe it... BOTH the WS and the AP, together, conspire to do something selfish that causes real harm to others. So - like any conspiracy, each person is accountable for their part.

For me, at bottom is the acceptance of BOTH. You are responsible for your actions that caused harm to your BS (and any OBS / BSO). Your AP is responsible for their actions that caused harm to your BS and their OBS/BSO. How much any particular BS apportions between WS and AP seems pretty individual.

I also think some context would be helpful. Accepting blame for the affair is one thing. Defending the AP is something else entirely. Unless they were completely unaware of the marriage, they are not blameless.

No Stop sign.

I made the mistake of trying to accept all the blame for my cheating and said it isn't APs fault.

This by itself may seem to you that you are accepting 100% of the blame, which is a good thing. The problem here, is that you are looking at that statement from your POV.

Once you put on the glasses of the BS, it takes on a very different meaning.

To the BS, who have been hit hard with the betrayal, it looks like you are still protecting the AP. That the WS does not want any harm to come to their AP, as they are so precious, whilst the BS view the AP as someone who contributed to wrecking the BS relationship with the WS.

This is potentially controversial, but IMO the only time I would think that the AP is blameless, is that the AP genuinely did not know the WS had/has a SO pre-A, during the A, and after the A.

Once an AP is aware, then they are as culpable in the betrayal of the BS.

Let’s take this in another direction.

How do you feel about your AP? Why do you not want him to be blamed at all? Gaining clarity over that will guide your words and actions.

As a fellow ws I know that my journey about how I saw the ap evolved slowly. At different phases he was different things to me. And sometimes it was a reflection of how I saw myself.

At first it was he wasn’t a bad person he did a bad thing, because that’s what I believed about myself.

Then I started to understand the complexities within myself that needed addressed and therefore could see him more clearly as well.

Then I thought was supposed to be indifferent toward him and I was.

Eventually I came to understand that I was manipulated just as I manipulated. I used him and he used me. The narrative of the AP doesn’t get to revolve to redemption. We do get to evolve there for ourselves, out of growth and work we can redeem ourselves.

The AP is now a stranger and it doesn’t have any impact on us what they do or don’t do in the aftermath. So because that story didn’t evolve but mine did, I now see the ap as someone who aided me in being the worst possible version of myself. The person I thought I knew did not exist. So in my heart and mind, he will always be a negative character in a chapter of my book that I am not fond of.

That whole process probably went on for a couple of years. It took that long because it took me that long to be able to understand the magnitude of what I did. I think it’s hard to take that in while we are still experiencing so much shame. The shame itself is so heavy and unbearable that we don’t have the room to take it all in. We bargain with ourselves for redemption.

How you see him is a product of where you are in your work. And I think that is a big indicator that you have a lot more to do. I say that kindly and gently. I have been there and it’s not easy.

So in all of that how do you feel towards him? And yourself? And do you find any correlation between the two?

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:09 AM, Tuesday, February 15th]

Hi, I’m a exBS and after 10 years I am a long way along the road to recovery and WS is MY person again. So with all that said please do not defend your AP. I accept that the AP owed me far less respect than my spouse so logically I shouldn’t feel such anger towards them but I did. I just did. My WS used to say things like ‘we did this’ or ‘we said that’ and it made we feel so murderous! And more importantly sad and so alone. The only position that will help the recovery is to. POSITION yourself shoulder to shoulder with your BS against the AP. In time indifference is the goal but to start with please accept that the AP is the enemy. Pull up that drawbridge