SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I apologize if there was another post like this. I searched and couldn't find.

I'm wondering if a cheater can ever change. I guess if they do a lot of work on themselves they could but does the majority of them do that?

To do something like this in my opinion you have to have a character flaw, lack of empathy, selfishness and on but obviously they don't think so. Most of the time they think this is anyone's and anything else fault but theirs.

I was the other day reading through the Wayward Side post and I was in a bit of shock about some of the things I read, like they really believe they had the right to do betray their significant other because they were in love, or because they weren't happy.

I understand people fall in and out of love but lie, cheat, deceive and betrail are choices.

Well sorry about the rambling, I have no one to talk so it helps write here. Anyway my question is, are them horrible people that can't ever become better people?

I was the other day reading through the Wayward Side post and I was in a bit of shock about some of the things I read, like they really believe they had the right to do betray their significant other because they were in love, or because they weren't happy.

I don't read the Wayward Side threads any longer, but if you go there again... I suggest that you keep reading and look deeper. The waywards usually go through a process where they try to justify what they did... but eventually they realize that they were being selfish jerks and they work on their own issues that led them to infidelity.

I actually found that reading those threads to be inspiring, suggesting there was hope for my xWW. Unfortunately, the flaw in my logic was that I was reading those threads, not her. She had no desire to accept her own shortcomings and to work on herself.

I'm wondering if a cheater can ever change. I guess if they do a lot of work on themselves they could but does the majority of them do that?

Some change. I would guess that about 5% of them do.

How is going for you WS after Divorce?

I feel like directly answering this question for some reason.

I have occasionally but rarely talked about my first ex-wife on here. She cheated on me also. It's interesting to look at her because we divorced more than 20 years ago. I don't have a lot of details because we do not talk to each other at all. However, as far as I know, she ended up marrying the guy with whom she had an affair and as far as I know... they are still together. I did a search for her on her state's legal website a few months ago... and she has definitely had a handful of legal issues... mostly involving borrowing from people and then not paying them back. There were 3 or 4 lawsuits and she lost all of them, as far as I can tell from the website. So, I don't think that's she has changed much either. She feels like she is entitled to more than she is actually entitled to.

There is a similar developing story with my 2nd ex wife, the one that brought me to this website. She continues to have very selfish and backwards thoughts on what is hers versus what is mine. I am regularly told by her where I should live and how I should spend my money. Remarkably, I should live closer to her for her convenience and I should spend my money on only the most essential items and all other money that I have should actually be hers.

So, in conclusion, most wayward spouses don't change. It's who they are. But, a few do... they're pretty rare, unfortunately.

How is going for you WS after Divorce?

Like barcher144...I have been married twice...and cheated on twice. My 1st H and I never talk anymore either. Several years ago though...my sister ran into my XWH. He is remarried...but he told my sister that he WISHED I still wanted him because he would get back together with me in an instant . HE has NEVER changed...and his statement just proved that I made the RIGHT decision by going for D with him!!

I'm wondering if a cheater can ever change.

After everything I went through with my XWH...I KNEW that the saying..."once a cheater always a cheater"...was TRUE. However...after going through R with my 2nd H...I have happily been proven WRONG on that saying . I don't know what the statistics are in regards to how many cheaters actually do change their mindsets...but there are enough happily reconciled couples on this site...including me and my H...to say confidently that it absolutely IS possible to change .

Anyway my question is, are them horrible people that can't ever become better people?

In MY case...YES...and NO . I think it all depends on IF they CHOOSE to become better people. My XWH chose to stay in that infidelity mindset.

My 2nd H set out to have an A while he was working alone overseas. He sought out strangers to USE for sex...under the guise of it being NSA. Only ONE woman consented to it...mostly because SHE wanted to come to America...so she USED him to accomplish that. It didn't work out so well for either of them .

When I told my 2nd H that I couldn't believe he damned his soul to hell by committing adultery...it shook him to his core. He started poring over his Bible...looking for ways to "fix" what he had done. The more he read...the more he saw just how DEPRAVED he had become. Thank God the He gives us more chances . My H took that chance that God gave him...changed his mindset...and has become a WONDERFUL husband...and an AWESOME man of God too .

It CAN happen. My dear friend was a WW years ago. Her church helped her. She still goes to a church group for women and really works daily to live a life of honesty, and be the best wife to her H. She still can’t believe how mentally ill she was to have the thought processes she had to have affairs on her loving H.

I saw my XWS recently. He looked worried. He used to look happy, cheerful, talked to strangers, but not any more.
He drinks &smokes a lot I’m told by my adult sons. If you are truly happy with the luuuurve of your life, why would you drink every day, not work out, and enjoy life?

The OW’s now wifetress, first husband murdered her "just a friend" boyfriend, then killed himself. That didn’t stop here, she moved her and does the same.

I know this site is littered with lots of tales of the WS affairing down or them finding out the grass isn't as green on the other side as they thought but here is a quick summary of my WS new life in the 6 months since our separation:

She has told me she is happier now than she was with me. She did preface this by saying it's not any better than it was when we were at our best but is on a par with that and certainly better than it was towards the end of our relationship.

AP is "rich", I don't know to what extent but he owns his own business, has multiple expensive cars (including her dream car) and lives in a huge house. She will be moving in with him shortly.

She is now living a lavish lifestyle, she is out dining at fancy restaurants every week, has been on two holidays since we separated and has been on long weekends to spa resorts more than once.

She moved an hour away from her hometown to live with me, the AP lives in her hometown so she is now able to move back home which she has always wanted to do and is taking our son with her.

We have a son together but she always said she would have liked to have a girl too but as time passed we discussed whether we would want to go through having another child and having weighed it up decided not to and I had a vasectomy. She become pregnant 6 weeks after we separated and she's having a girl.

So in summary everything is going absolutely perfect for her, she's living her dream life. I do still hope that karma will catch up with her and something will happen to bring all this crashing down but it's tough trying to piece back together the shattered remains of your life when she's absolutely thriving and everything has worked out perfectly for her.

My XWW bought a house and had a revolving door of boyfriends (former ones, younger ones, new ones... like a Dr. Seuss book) for a while there. As far as I know, she's single at the moment, but I don't know for sure. I used to be able to tell when she was between ego-boosters because she'd make contact more - but I can be absolute-zero cold when I need to be, and she tired of trying to make nice-nice with me (so she could tell people that everything worked out great because we're friends!).

Here's the thing, and I hope it helps someone.... I don't really care how/what/who she is doing. Hopefully you all can get to that point too.

I hope XWW doing well enough that my kids are happy when they're over there, and they seem to be. I can tell you that when my kids have something that they really want or need, they bring it to me. They KNOW they can depend on me, which is not the case for their mother.

I think my ex is doing ok. He acts like a victim most of the time like my act of leaving was worse than anything he has done. He actually vocalized that

But really this is how I feel...

I don't really care how/what/who she is doing

I'm wondering if a cheater can ever change. I guess if they do a lot of work on themselves they could but does the majority of them do that?

I would say that there is a pretty small minority of them that "change" in the sense that they are able to resist the addiction-like urge to seek validation externally - but that is probably due more so to the fear of the fallout than actually becoming self-actualizing, self-validating, and self-aware.

I’ve been divorced for about nine years now and I can clearly say my XWW has not changed at all and is a terminal narcissistic sociopath.

To this day she has never apologized or even acknowledged that she put our children through an emotional trauma because of her gross behavior.

She didn’t end up with her affair partner as she ended it due my divorce filing and also because her parents and family assured her that her affair guy would be soundly rejected by the family.

Her social life and surrounding herself with people that tell her everything they know she wants to hear is the number one priority in her life.

She still sees herself as a princess and a victim.

She has been sued by banks at least two more times (and lost) for borrowing money and flat out not wanting to pay it back.

And she still treats me with the same contempt that she did while she was in the midst of her fantasy world affair.

She has been remarried now for a few years to a guy who was married when she started sleeping with him very quickly - or what she calls "dating".

Whether she feels "happier" now or not is not my business, not my problem, and not on my mind.

What I do know is that I am, without question, very happy with my sound decision to take action and divorce a miserable, insecure, child-minded, lying piece of shit like that.

I am with change maker on this one ..

"Here's the thing, and I hope it helps someone.... I don't really care how/what/who she is doing. Hopefully you all can get to that point too."

To me WH is what I have him in the archives in my phone as ..JSTIUTK...that's right. Just Somebody That I USED to Know.

With that in mind, I went to school with people who are doing a whole lot better than me. And I went to school with people who are doing a whole lot worse
It's irrelevant to me. If WH hits the lottery so what. If WH goes to prison for continuing to lie to the court so what.

I have a good life and much more energy and opportunity than when I lived with him. I eat healthy food. I have a safe place to live. I have several good friends.

If he didn't change I imagine that one day it's gonna catch up with him. At the least his STD risk taking has been astronomically high.
But whatever does or does not catch up with him, I no longer want to grab the popcorn to watch.

After two affairs I can tell you my H changed. On his own.

Then again I changed too.

It’s been 8 years and we are one of the lucky ones. We are reconciled and happy.

It CAN happen. My dear friend was a WW years ago.

It definitely CAN happen.

This discussion reminds of the Harry Potter books, specifically the somewhat odd alliance/friendship between Dumbledore and Snape. Somehow, Dumbledore trusted Snape 100%. Avoiding the spoiler, Dumbledore knew that Snape had changed for a very specific reason that had a (meta?)physical manifestation. To achieve this, Snape had to look inward and go through a painful process to change.

This is precisely the process that wayward spouses have to undergo... in hindsight, it's one of the more brilliant parts of the Harry Potter books. Unfortunately for us muggles, there is no way to know for sure whether or not a person has changed.

Then again I changed too.

Amen to this!

I have changed A LOT!!!

From one perspective, I feel broken. Like something in me snapped and I will never be the same person again. The real mind-fuck for me, however, is that I think that I like broken me better than the original me. Maybe being broken isn't so bad after all.

Here's the thing, and I hope it helps someone.... I don't really care how/what/who she is doing. Hopefully you all can get to that point too.

I actually go a step further than this...

I am actively rooting for my ex-wives on most things (the one exception would be the on-going legal crap with ex-wife#2). Above, I talked about seeing that ex-wife#1 had had some legal issues. Reading about her struggles actually made me sad. I would prefer that she have a happy life, even with her affair-partner/current husband.

Similarly, I am rooting for ex-wife#2. Sure, she's been an awful person to me and to her kids (and to others) but she's still the mother of my kids and I would like her to be successful/happy. I have a polite/cordial/friendly relationship with her current boyfriend (not her affair-partner).

Particularly with ex-wife#2, I have come to see her as a deeply damaged human being to the point where I almost have pity for her. The reason that she acts the way she does is almost certainly the outcome of her past trauma.

All of that said, I simultaneously have to have very firm boundaries with my exes. There is too much bad history, too many open wounds and/or scars. Those relationships are over and I can (at best) watch from a distance (or not pay attention at all).

I am with barcher144, I wish the best for my STBXW, I really do (of course, only so long as the best for her doesn't adversely impact me, as in our still-to-be settled divorce). I hope that the businesses we built together, which are (or soon will be) hers alone now, continue to thrive. I still love (lower-case "L") and care about her, she is the mother of our son, and we lived together for almost 34 years. In the end, we were incompatible as married and just need to move on separately. And that's ok, I am looking forward, and I hope she is too (we have had minimal contact since separating, so I don't really know for sure where she is at... and that's ok, too).

Haven’t spoken to him in over six years and he lives out of state. He doesn’t have a relationship with our three adult children and I don’t have the occasion to speak with anyone still in contact with him.

So, I really have no idea how he is doing.

After six years I don’t wish he would get hit by a bus anymore, but I do hope he may regret some of his choices. I also knew him for 40 years and I suspect he believes he is a victim, especially when it comes to his relationship with our kids. I don’t believe he understands the consequences of his actions and choices when it comes to the kids.

Thanks for everyone's reply. I guess it all depends on the person. If they really want to change they will but the majority will not change.

Legend10 - does your ex wife AP knows she was cheating on you with him? If that was me I would always wonder if she wouldn't do the same to me.

Some of you are better people than me. I have an ex-boyfriend that cheated on me, we broke up 15 years ago and I still wish he would suffer for all the pain and suffering he put me through but I know nothing about him and don't want to. I know he had two very unhealthy relationships and that's about it. I guess I haven't forgiven him. I guess I still hold a grudge, I don't know.

One interesting thing I remembered today is that my husband had an ex-girlfriend that cheated on him and went to marry the AP and they are still married with kids I'm just not sure if she is still faithful to her husband but I know that before I married my husband they were talking via email for a long time but I'm sure her husband wouldn't like to know that she was chit chatting with an ex-boyfriend lol at least I wouldn't.

Legend10 - does your ex wife AP knows she was cheating on you with him? If that was me I would always wonder if she wouldn't do the same to me.

Yes, basically, the AP knew about me and that we had a son together. I do hope there is an element of mistrust between them.

Mine is the exact same after divorce as he was through our marriage and R.

As soon as I my good-will feelings pop up after a quiet few months, or even a year, he will send a dumb-ass mean text complaining about child support or money - the text is a little gift reminding me to thank God above I am no longer with him. These texts make me feel exactly how similar attacks did when we were married.

No clear bad karma in his case and I'm good with that because my son has a decent relationship with his dad. He married a wealthy woman (not the slut he cheated with). She is into high end goods like my ex. They are constantly buying and selling homes, cars, iphones, etc., with her money, chasing happiness perhaps? I find it odd how much he wants son to stay with him and his new wife now days. I could guess why but I'd only be guessing.

Honestly assess your cheater. Is he a deep thinker? When he has been wrong in the past does he admit it, and then 'feel' it enough to want to mend things? Out of caring, and not just to appease? When discussing other people, is he generally kind? Does he seem to have empathy towards them?

Is his heart a good one, or do just think it's good on some deep level maybe, because you know it is, yet he can't show it for some reason? This is a common one I see that gets people second guessing divorce. The spouse looks for clues hard enough they find some, proving cheater is a good person that truly loves them - they just can't show it well for some reason. Please don't let this one muck things up and make you worry going forward. He is either clearly salvageable or he is not.

Bottom line, it's okay if he changes after divorce. He will be a changed person that abused you and thought so little of you he put you through this. AND if a few years down the road, he truly loved you afterall, and he goes through an epiphany, after he proves through the grapevine he is a changed man, he can ask you on a date, and whoo you back over the next couple of years as you observe safely un-entangled from him. You probably won't want to take the risk of course but just in case:-)

She lives with my mother and basically does nothing but work, take care of our disabled son and attend therapy. Hasn’t dated. Doesn’t go out with friends. Just cares for our son, works and helps my mother with her business.

My mother never took her side per se, there are nuances to the situation (Ex wife frames it herself as she didn’t say yes to the ONS but also never said or did anything to indicate no… she did admit it wasn’t forced (and a string of therapists don’t think she was, cementing our divorce). I also found out myself about it from Alexa recordings rather than her admitting it). I’ve never actually discussed my wife’s affair on here because I’m 50/50 whether it was fully consensual or her just letting him do what she thought he wanted to. Not out of fear for her safety just because she was that much of a push over and she didn’t want the attention to stop. Being that easily coerced with a total inability to say no to anyone in case it upset them is why we had a dead bedroom for almost our entire relationship. I didn’t want to take advantage. If she admitted to me she was asexual or whatever I’d probably be a bit more forgiving. It wouldn’t change her motivations of not saying no to someone she wanted positive attention from. However she spent a decade convincing me she did want sex she just couldn’t outwardly show it or do anything about it so I’m always going to doubt if she did it because she wanted too but could never show it.

It’s been years now and I’ve gone low contact. Ideally she would move on because I struggle to do the same when she hasn’t. Maybe the fact there’s a seed of doubt about whether she actually cheated is holding me back… I don’t know.

[This message edited by Kindern at 4:00 PM, Thursday, March 10th]

I don't see my STBXWW other than for the few minutes during drop offs, so I can't say for certain. For the few moments I do see her, I'd say she looks haggard and worn out. She definitely looks unhappy, but she has always been a discontented person, one of the reasons she had an affair I guess, trying to fill that gaping hole. I do t think she gets much sympathy from her family as they feel she fucked up her life, and e eryone else's to boot. It's funny to hear my evangelical MIL drop an F-bomb, but appropriate given the circumstances.

In the end, it's not a zero sum game. I don't feel better the worse she feels. I guess, when it comes to her at least, I just don't really feel much of anything other than the occasional bout of anger. She's more alive to having a pebble in my shoe.

Can a cheater change their ways. Anything is possible.

Typically the answer is no.

They are self involved and used to having their way regardless of the damage that may result. They believe they won't be caught. If caught they are confident they can talk their way out of disaster and avoid consequences. They keep changing partners but the problems stay the same.

If you want to gamble on a person gamble on someone new. Betting on a cheater to change their ways is a suckers bet.