SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

As a background, my ex and I separated in 2018 and he is supposed to have four nights per month of having the kids. He has been spotty at best for all these years at having them and even on the off days that he has them it’s rare that they all want to go.

My oldest son has recently gotten his drivers license and now suddenly he is asking the oldest over for two nights per week and keeps telling him he can come stay over whenever he wants. My son is totally into this. He has now started telling my second son (15) that he can also start staying extra days.

I’m furious.

On one hand I’m angry that after years of being a crappy parent he thinks that he can just start telling them to come over all the time. I know that "technically" they can pick since they are older but that just isn’t how we have ever done it and on the other hand I’m hurt that my kids would even be happy about this. Like I said, I have been there for them and poured into them and tried to be present and involved and it just hurts my feelings. I know that probably sounds selfish but sometimes I get blindsided by things that hurt.

I say that they can go because I feel stuck and feel like I can’t say no about them going over extra, but is that true? I’ve always heard that I need to tread carefully so as not to make them feel the stress and make them feel like they are stuck in the middle of an argument.

I can understand where you are coming from. I feel similiarly about my ex- he completely ignored our kids as babies and now as toddlers/preschoolers he basically watches TV with them 2 hours a week. But once they are old enough to ski, go hunting with him, play golf with him- then he wants 80% custody!

Anyway- yes, please let them go. Please don't let it hurt your feelings, they are teenagers. Teenagers crave independence from their primary caregiver. It's biological. Their instinct is to leave the nest, just like every other animal. It's not personal against you at all. It just means they have a healthy attachment to you and feel confident about 'spreading their wings' so to say.

If you make them feel guilty or weird about this it will push them away and you will regret it. Don't say anything, be perfectly fine with it. Maybe think about how this is a positive and what you can do with your "nights off". Enjoy it!!

Robinbird12, thanks so much for the insight.

As far as "time off" I have two younger children as well and I think I overheard him yesterday asking the third oldest to start coming a second night per week as well. I think it is just a snowball situation and where does it end?

I mean if he starts two nights a week he will have doubled his custody time and I just have no say? Ugh.

Also, to add, he only goes through the kids about them going over or what nights or whatever because in his words "he shouldn’t have to go through me to get to his kids" so he effectively cuts me completely out of the scheduling.

There are apps he can use to schedule his time. You out the kids schedule on it so he has access.

He puts the nights he sees the kids.

Is it crappy he suddenly wants to be involved? Yes. He sounds lazy.

But who benefits? Your kids.

And if it’s good for your kids - then you will support it (within reason).

Do what you can to make it work. If possible. For the kids.

No extra days. He’s trying to get the kids more to cut back his child support, most likely, or claim 1 child on taxes.

No matter what he says, he does have to go thru you for visitation. It’s very disruptive and disrespectful to have people coming and going whenever. But, he isn’t going to listen to you. I would NOT talk to your xwh, I always emailed my atty and asked what to do. For sure sit down and write out the few times he got the kids over the last few years so that IF he tries to go to court, you can show how lame he is.

I think it ended up with me emailing my atty who emailed his atty and his atty called my xh and told him to stop creating drama and go by the D papers.

Fwiw my sons now 21&24 rarely go to their Dads, when at one time they were trying to go more. They got tired of the lying, fighting with OW, games,etc.

[This message edited by homewrecked2011 at 11:30 PM, Monday, May 9th]

Don't be afraid to enforce rules and boundaries for your teens and your ex. Setting clearly defined boundaries and rules for your teens is healthy and good parenting. They may complain at first but they will get used to the boundaries you set if you are consistent and reasonable.

I would stick with the custody agreement as much as possible. Beyond the four scheduled days per month, you could require your teens to complete a set list of chores and activities before they can run off to your ex's house. Keep the list the same so they know exactly what is required. Sending strength!

I so appreciate all of your suggestions! I cannot type a full reply, but later on I will be.

Just needed to vent real quick because I found out today he’s trying to talk my son into moving in with him. I feel nauseous. How did I pick someone so terrible to be their Dad? And how do I possibly "co-parent" with someone who goes behind my back like that? It’s disgusting the manipulation that bad parents play on kids.

Call your attorney. Immediately.

Your son is not able to make these decisions b/c custody has been established.

I think you need to have a talk with your son.

Your XH is creating drama here. Got what reason?

Call your atty now!!! You do not want your child to live with him and be further and continually manipulated by his Dad!!!!!! FTG.

I think kids NEED us to say no and secretly they want us to say no. Just no. Shut the whole idea down. It takes the pressure off your children to not hurt their Dads feelings.

No normal parent is going to skirt around the custodial parent and try to coerce the child to move in with them.

When I first jointed SI, several members had let their children move to the noncustodial parents home, and they regretted it. The kids were coerced by the other parent into believing horrible lies about the parent who was trying to be kind by letting their kids move in with the other parent.

So, my youngest wanted to live with his Dad and his Dad and OW were pushing hard for it. I told my son no, that the judge had determined it was best for him to be with me. I said he could live with his Dad when he graduated high school, but until then he was stuck with me. I was shaking inside!!!! I knew he could go to his Dads. At some point I think I had to tell my son he needed to live with his Dad for a couple months nonstop b4 deciding it was better over there. A few months later they tried again & I told him I felt like they were using him bc OW had a son there who was bored. Sure enough, my kid thought his Dad and OW invited him to go to a water park/hotel for a long weekend. OW and xh left my 13 year old and her 11 year old at the hotel and water park alone while they went to some events. My kid saw the light. Sadly.

So, for now tell your son it’s not gonna happen, and it’s not alright for anyone to "lean" on him, not even a parent.

He’s gonna argue, but secretly he needs you to say no.

[This message edited by homewrecked2011 at 3:36 AM, Wednesday, May 11th]

My son just turned 17 and we are in the middle of D. We are IHS. I was advised that I cannot stop him if he wants to live with his cheating, narc father. A trial would take more than a year and he would be 18 by then and it wouldn't matter anyway, not to mention the cost and putting my son through that. My son doesn't have final say but the court considers his wishes. His father sets basically no rules, let's him do what he wants, almost never tells him no - who do you think he'd want to live with? The more I try it seems the more I push him away. He needs a real parent and that has to be me so what I want basically doesn't matter.

It is a tough situation as yours is but I don't want to lose him forever. His father is most likely using some form of parental alienation but nothing I can do but love him and hope for the best even though my heart is breaking. STBXH is just hell bent on ruining my life for some reason.

Good luck figuring it out. It is so difficult to know what, overall, is best. See what your attorney says about it but if your teen is anything like mine if I try to make him fo anything, he wants to do the opposite.

It is so difficult when your kids are having to go back and forth between the parents with different sets of rules. And even harder when they are old enough to start deciding for themselves where they want to be. I think the only thing that can be done is to hope that you have raised them right to this point and that they will make good decisions and always be there for them if they need you and always listen when they want to talk. It is like getting the empty nest situation earlier than normal.

It is like getting the empty nest situation earlier than normal.

It's taken me 2 years since leaving to get to a level where I do not feel unbalanced by the "empty nest syndrome." Lots of therapy time and I have good women friends.

My kids are both teenagers (one is 18) and we have a 50/50 but XWS does his best to create drama between us all. I currently have the X blocked and I plan on keeping that way. He buys them extravagant items I can no longer afford so that is always appealing, but they hate his moods. I usually am the safe parent they come to vent to. The 18 year old used to threaten to go to dad's if she got upset and that used to upset me. I had to pull back and let her go. Now she enjoys coming over and we have a great time talking and spending mom and daughter time.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 10:39 PM, Wednesday, June 1st]

*Actual divorce attorney answer*

You are both entitled to enforce the parenting plan as written. You can prevent him from usurping the schedule with the "cool dad" program if you are willing to take action through a lawyer. He is entitled to at least the schedule he has on paper, and he can enforce that similarly.

Now the problem becomes this: in general, adolescent boys will eventually gravitate to all but the absolute worst dads. If that happens, a mom in your position has a terrible choice: make the issue one of law, or make the issue one of family.

The other common dynamic is that children yearn for two things: (1) the love of their parents and (2) predictability, even if it is suboptimal outcome. A kid who had his dad inactive in his life will often forgive that quickly to get the contact and love here and now. Also, a kid who knows that at mom's the homework will have to be done, we'll probably have some leftovers, and we will not be missing the bus BUT mom never flakes, bails, blows up, dips with some bimbo when I need her, etc. will eventually return to mom after the Disneyland Dad episode has run its course.

Your sons stand to resent you if you interfere, I've seen it happen many times. It happens the other way, too. A terrible dad wants mom's assistance to compel an unwilling child; what's she to do? Duct tape the kid and put him in the trunk? There aren't any obvious answers here, except to know what the order says and pick carefully when you want to use it as a cudgel.

In the mean time, measure you motives very carefully. "He wasn't around for xx years" is a terrible motive, and I'm not sorry to say that. In the end, your children will not be children and they will come and go as they please (think Thanksgiving in 8 years, for example). What do you want their memory of you and this issue to be?

[This message edited by Wiseoldfool at 11:28 PM, Wednesday, June 1st]