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  Moving to Wayward Side

Just no! I'm appalled! You're not a sexual vending machine and no one who actually loves you would treat you like one.

If your BH is playing some kind of tit for tat game with you, that's not love. What you OWE when you've betrayed a mate and you want to make it right is to fix whatever it was inside you, in your character, that made cheating a choice. You figure out what your values are, what went wrong that enabled you to give yourself permission to do ignore your partner's feelings and agency. You work on building boundaries and correcting shame. But making videos and behaving as a sexual object??? No. Absolutely, no. There's nothing so unhealthy in R which would require you to be demeaned and humiliated like that. This isn't how you fix it. Two wrongs won't make a right.

I'm sorry this happened to you.

ETA: Think about why you got involved in sexting at all. Most often it's for the external validation of having someone admire you romantically or sexually. What you're suppose to be learning is NOT to need outside validation, to be secure within yourself and to love and respect who you are. The point of the exercise is NOT merely to change the addressee of the sexts. It's to not need them anymore.

ETA 2: BS's go through so much emotional turmoil and trauma when infidelity is revealed. Try reading a copy of How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda McDonald. It's a small book, very easy to digest. You might even find a free copy for download if you search the internet. It does a pretty good job of describing the injuries of the BS, and while there are Christian overtones, one need not be religious to get the most out of it.

Remember that if you allow your BS to hurt you, he hurts your prospects for recovery too. Trauma can cause obsession with particular thoughts, so it's not uncommon to see a BS who ends up very preoccupied with whatever thing that's popped in, thinking s/he must have that one thing in order to move on. But no amount of appeasing that thought will work. You could send sexts to your BH every day and it's still not going to make the fact that you sent them to someone else okay. Meanwhile, you'd now have resentments about having your sexuality exploited as some kind of commodity or exchange to overcome. It's the very thing you're trying to recover from after using your sexuality as coin for external validation, only now, it's got your husband's face on it.

Be true to yourself. It's best for both of you.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 1:43 AM, Saturday, September 17th]

So you are in your early 30's have five children and spend your time playing games on the internet with strangers. WTF. You sound like a fourteen year old. You need to grow the hell up, get into counseling and start living in the real world. Both you and your husband should nuke these stupid games over the internet. You both seem to be consumed by this virtual, FAKE, world. It simply blows my mind how people can "fall in love" or develop "emotional attachments" with people they have never met.

BTW, there is no doubt in my mind that when you do join the real world you ultimately will find some dude to start fucking. You will get played and your husband will find out and that will be that. If you want to avoid this pitfall, get into counseling and investigate why you have the mindset of a fourteen year old.

This is a reminder to members to post respectfully or posting privileges will be revoked.

The waters on your original question are a bit muddy with other topics, but I'll weigh in:

1) A side issue you raised: IMO, sexting (especially with pics and vid) makes cheating sexual. Either way, it's betrayal.

2) Really sit with ChamomileTea's post for a while and decide if you are a truly willing participant in your BH's request for video. If you are not, don't do it.

**Warning about explicit content below**
3) ONLY if you are a willing participant in the videos, this is how I would recommend not faking it: Do a video of yourself getting physical with yourself while you describe what turns you on when your BH does it. You don't have to fake an ending. You don't have to have a fireworks ending. Just explain what truly gets you off when your H does it. Even without an O-ending, that's authentic and sexy.

4) Final side note about your BH waking you up. One one hand, he needs to be checking in with himself to not cross a line into emotionally abusive behavior. And I'm not saying that's what it was. I wasn't there. I don't presume to know the full context.

I am saying that post Dday, things are VERY complicated.

Like most betrayed spouses, I spent many nights unable to sleep. And when I did sleep, the betrayal was the first emotional gut-punch of consciousness I had upon waking--for a LONG time.

I did resent my fWH softly breathing away in the deep breaths of slumber while I laid there white-knuckling it through yet another sleepless night. "How dare he sleep like a baby!!!"

So I get your H's basic feeling. Truly.

Yet, I also think that all BSs have to do a lot of checks-ins with themselves when we express our huge (and rightful) anger and frustration to our WSs: Is this helpful? Is this crossing the line to abusive? What are my true goals here and how can I get my needs met and heal in ways that are constructive and not destructive?

I wish you both healing.

ChamomileTea

I really don't know any other way to be.

It's how I was raised.

I'm getting IC for the way I am because I know I am broken and fucked up.

I will get a copy of the book and read it.

To everyone else

As I was his first everything he has learnt it all from me. Because of this I see it as my fault even before the A.

I just wanted to talk to him without the accustions and name calling. Thank you for telling me faking it would be bad, I never have with my BH so I won't start now.

But since I made this post he has started accusing me of always faking it because I asked if I should.

He has even deleted his post. He has deleted everything to do with me. At least it is how it feels.

BTW, there is no doubt in my mind that when you do join the real world you ultimately will find some dude to start fucking

That is your opinion I know I never would. I am in reality. We game when we have time that's all

[This message edited by WTDIEC at 9:19 AM, Saturday, September 17th]

WTDIEC,

A few points and questions from a WS working on fWS. I read you posts and so many things trigger me into times when I have had and sometimes still have similar thoughts. While our stories are different, our thoughts and ways of working seem similar. As ever, I write from the heart and do not mean anything I say as an attack or an insult.

You say you refuse to fake it for BS. You want everything to be real. I get that, and ongoing that is where you need to be. Have you considered that your entire marriage to date has been fake. Even the genuine moments are now tainted, you did not truly love yourself or your husband (we would not be able to do what we did if we truly loved them). My BS and I are five years from my last affair but have had multiple d-days since then. Only recently have I actually believed the things I was told on here. Only this week have BS and I accepted that our old marriage is over. If we're to survive then we need to start again. Never forgetting why we are doing what we're doing, but moving forwards in a new open and honest relationship. It's heart breaking coming to this realisation, but was necessary. All previous attempts at recovery, all previous happy times, all previous apologies...EVERYTHING is now considered fake, even if my belief at the time was genuine, it was not because I was not being authentic with myself never mind BS.

Lot's of posters have commented on your post being "me, me, me" and I see this. Once again I have been there. I was told that I have to love my self or work on myself before I can work on the marriage. I read this as only focus on myself. In doing that I became even more self centred and regularly slipped into "woe is me" I felt every time BS wanted to talk it was so she could attack me or belittle me. Everything was about me and my feelings...No different to when I was in the affairs...Therefore I was not on the road to R, I was still being wayward. Now, how do we get from "me me, me" to working on me? That's really difficult, to be honest, for me it just happened. Things I read on here and in books just made sense. Annoyingly for BS, she got it well before me. Things she was trying to tell me were exactly right. Keep posting on here and hopefully it will come.

Think about WHY your BS needs you to make these videos. Is it because he has seen you making them for another man and wants them back? Is it because you've told him they were all fake for AP and he's worried about past vids you've sent? Is he suffering from major trauma and has no real idea why he wants them. So many things I've done in the past are HUGE triggers for BS and myself (more later). We are working on getting some of these back. Others are just ruined. They will never happen again. Communication is key here. Careful conversations on why the vids are needed and why you feel you cant do them....

Think about why you cant do them. Is being "genuine" the real reason? Is it the only reason? BS and I have had multiple conversations on sex and sexual fantasies where I found it difficult to parkake. I did not know why, BS thought it was because I could not open up to her and this became a real problem. I would deflect or avoid such conversations and BS would get more upset with me. I realised after thought and conversation that I had linked sexual fantasy with porn. I was ashamed of my porn use and therefore ashamed to discuss fantasies as a result. We've discussed this and I am working on breaking the association between the two. Do you trigger at the thought of making a movie for BS? Do you associate any sexting with your affair? These could be factors that you're currently not in a position to deal with. If this is the case, share....Share with counsellor share with BS and getting onto of why might not be what you think it is.

Something my BS has said, probably a million times, is "You could do something for them, why can't you do it for me?" Now, it's not as simple as that. A lot of things my BS has asked of me require a lot of soul searching. A HUGE amount of work. My thoughts have always been that "why can't you see the work I'm doing?". There are many reasons. Firstly it was because I was not communication effectively. Secondly, because I was not actually doing the work properly (sometimes because I didn't want to and other times because I had no Idea how to), Thirdly because I have fucked up on so many occasions that any work I did do is now a write off and lastly (there are more but these are most relevant) EVERY SINGLE TIME I chose to lie or deflect or not "get it" then my BS loses faith in me and my words. You could confess 100 things to BS and if just one of them contained a lie then the other 99 are considered a lie also.

BS is still hurting, believe this and remember this. EVERY day for 24 hours a day this is on his mind. He will say hurtful things to you. My BS did this sometimes to just get me to engage. Do not fall into the trap of feeling sorry for yourself. I know it's hard, please try and avoid it.

So, you both need to understand why the need for sexting and truly understand the resistance from yourself. If you can get there it will help with your reluctance I'm sure.

I just want to say something about you falling asleep. As a BS this very thing makes me so angry.

I would lie there, trembling, sick, anxious, and afraid. I was the type of person who could fall asleep sitting up. I never had sleep issues until I found out about my husband's betrayal. 2.5 years later I'm still taking melatonin and an anti anxiety medicine to fall asleep. I also have to occupy my mind with something else, be it reading or whatever until I'm so exhausted that sleep finally takes over. The mind movies and endless questions are relentless and they tend to get louder and more vivid in the quiet hours of the night.

What makes me really upset (hurt) is when I know that my husband is aware that I'm struggling. I need support and reassurance from him. I just need him to take the lead when I'm just too emotionally triggered to relax. I've said deeply haunting thoughts to him about my life and my feelings, and you know what?? A few minutes later I hear him snoring!! It infuriates me. I interpret that as lack of caring. He says he is just sooo tired, but come on! Your spouse it in turmoil, sometimes it literally feels like we're fighting life and death, and then you hear the peaceful breathing next to you. I ask myself, how could he be at peace when he knows I'm in such distress?? Is his sleep more important than me? Apparently my haunting thoughts and trauma didn't effect him at all. If they did, he'd be jolted awake and worried too, right??

I understand your spouses response completely. He is not out of line, he is traumatized. Betrayal trauma changes the brain chemistry (look it up if you don't believe it). Remember that the fight/flight response is awakened in him, and he can't be expected to control his emotions all the time. He'll say things he doesn't really mean. He doesn't want to feel all the feelings he's having, but you did this to him. Is it too much to ask that you loyaly sit by his side letting him know that his pain deserves some respect. That what he's going through matters more to you than your precious sleep? If you address it correctly, you'll show him that you really 'get it', and that your actions bother you as much as they bother him. You should be grieving together, not abandoning him for a world of blissful carefree sleep that he can't and will not find easily for a very long time. He feels abandoned by your actions and then abandoned again when you dismissively fall asleep.

Yes sleep is important, but sometimes you need to show your spouse that you're willing to sacrifice for their sake. That's how you show empathy and build trust.

--Just my 2 cents as a betrayed spouse.

Bulcy

You talk about finding new perspective and thinking about things differently. Which is exactly why I'm in IC. I don't always listen to BH. It's why I try to get multiple perspectives.

That is quite a lot.

Sadly I have thought I'd been putting in the work.

I do wish we could talk but that seems impossible right now. It seems everything we talk about is an argument unless I agree with BH 100%

I know it takes time. I wish everyone around me wouldn't make me feel like I have to change immediately.

Right now my BH is only focused on the videos yet everytime I try to explain why I can't. I feel like I'm not listened to and he just shuts off.

[This message edited by WTDIEC at 2:06 PM, Saturday, September 17th]

AllIam

It's not about not caring.

I didn't think of it that way. I did stay awake with him after then.

This was all triggered because he read through my written thoughts. I was told to write them down so I could work through them.

I know he has trauma but then so does a WS otherwise a WS wouldn't be a WS. WS have trauma either from their own past or as a direct cause of being a WS. It isn't because of BS. Yet it's stuff we still have to work through as well

I have had some super f-d up things happen to me before and after A. I try to only sleep when BH does.

He wasn't talking when I went to sleep. We were both in bed , laying in the dark.

[This message edited by WTDIEC at 2:15 PM, Saturday, September 17th]

You talk about finding new perspective and thinking about things differently. Which is exactly why I'm in IC. I don't always listen to BH. It's why I try to get multiple perspectives.

Not listening to BH is not uncommon. My BS told me things 10 times and I was told once by IC and it was like it's the first time you've heard it. It's odd and difficult to understand why we do this, but for me it was linked to my thought that BS was always out to get me, to upset me, to fight me. It's a classic bullshit mentality WSs have, that needs to be changed and really thought about. Getting different perspectives is good, as long as your intentions are correct. I came on here initially to find answers to my whys and to find people who agreed with me and my thoughts. It soon became apparent that people will not answer your whys because they are entirely your own. Listen to people, especially those who are calling you out. They're often right on the button and although we don't want to hear it at the time, we do appreciate it eventually (well, that or leave the forum, please don't do that)

That is quite a lot.

Im not sure what you mean here?!?

Sadly I have thought I'd been putting in the work.

Yes, we all do. Hey maybe you are in a lot of ways. As I said, you can do a lot of work...Screw up....all the work is gone. You have to do the work from the right place in your own mind. I wrote a time line that was in excess of 40,000 words. However I was still clinging to lies ans minimisation that rendered all that work pointless. Another thing would be to read or think about everything you've said and try to view that from a BSs point of view. It's staggering how awful we are at trying to understand ourselves.

I do wish we could talk but that seems impossible right now. It seems everything we talk about is an argument unless I agree with BH 100%

Been there. It's incredibly hard. My IC told me to live my BS reality. No matter what. Their reality is where they are at this time. You don't have to agree, but you have to accept their opinion and do so with grace. No telling them their wrong. Think about what they have said and try to understand where they're coming from. Even consider something like "I understand totally where you're coming from. I see that because I've lied previously, you do not trust what I have said. I will do everything in my power to help you understand"

I know it takes time. I wish everyone around me wouldn't make me feel like I have to change immediately.

Ok, here is the problem. Some change needs to be made immediately. Break off the affair, go NC (no contact), apologise, seek help. These are things that are simple and are a must before any road to R can be walked. True change to your inner most self, cannot be done overnight. I'm sure no one on here would expect that. What they're pointing out is things that do need to change or areas that need thought before there is any hope BS will even consider attempting R

Right now my BH is only focused on the videos yet every time I try to explain why I can't. I feel like I'm not listened to and he just shuts off.

I like the idea posted above about a video including BS explaining what you like and how you like it. Make it all about him and how you feel when he touches you. You don't have to pretend to orgasm at the end. Be authentic in in this video, yeah make it sexy, but make it about both of you and your thoughts and feelings when you are together.

Right now my BH is only focused on the videos yet everytime I try to explain why I can't. I feel like I'm not listened to and he just shuts off.

My advice would be to give him time. Let him sit with it for awhile. Let it process.

Do you actually think that doing videos for your BH will make all this go away? He's not going to have hurt feelings any more? He'll never feel insecure again? Everything will just go back the way it was and you'll never hear another peep about it, right?

OF COURSE NOT. That's because sexuality is NOT coin. Nothing you do for your BH is going to erase the sexting you did with someone else and if you go along with what he's asking of you, it's just going to be something else next time because what he's doing is kind of like testing you. And that would be okay and something to go along with if it actually worked, but it doesn't. There are always more "tests" because you can't resolve insecurity that way. Insecurity must be resolved from within.

I've read lots of posts in this section where a WS is just beginning to assert boundaries, and that's necessary work. It's the lack of proper boundaries which made the cheating possible. But for BS's, they're oftentimes not in a good emotional headspace to appreciate the necessity of that boundary-building work. It's often very much a case of, "well, you did this for the AP but not for me" which sounds so very convincing, both to their ears and to yours. But what you're talking about is an UNHEALTHY behavior that you need to have real and meaningful boundaries around, and when it's unhealthy, that means boundaries with everyone, not just with outsiders.

Boundaries protect you and they protect your marriage. Lack of boundaries is the reason why the cheating happened and the creation and maintenance of new boundaries are the reason why marital repair can be possible. Your BH might not be in the headspace yet to appreciate good boundaries, but in the long run, he's going to need to know that they're there. Right now, he's fixated on that thought about what you did for the AP, but if you ask him if this all goes away once you've done it, what does he say then? Is he prepared to simply move on as if nothing had happened, or is he looking for CHANGE?? Boundaries are the change he's looking for. He just doesn't know what that looks like yet.

In most cases, the reason the sexting happened at all tracks back to an unhealthy need for attention coupled with weak and permeable boundaries. Bolstering up your values can be a great place to start shoring up the boundaries but it takes time, work, reflection. The introspective work you'll be doing in therapy is painful and humbling. You're not the person you thought you were. Your core values of Fidelity and Honesty weren't what you thought they were because in the end, the boundaries around them weren't there. You had a "but..." in your values system. ie. "I believe in Fidelity, but... not if the attention I'm getting from an outsider feels good." You see how that works? Your values are never supposed to have an out-clause. They're supposed to be firm and when they are, boundaries spring up around them like fences.

Right now, you guys are still in the triage stage of all this. Slow down and treat it like that golden nugget from the Hippocratic Oath... First, do no harm... It's a very long process and it doesn't get solved overnight. You're both going to need more patience.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:16 PM, Saturday, September 17th]

Bulcy

Im not sure what you mean here?!?

I only meant it as in there is a lot you have written that I need time to think over.

I tend to get defensive and try to correct him. I am not one to talk about feelings or open up to anyone. BH was the only one I opened up to (even more than AP that was lies more than actual opening up), even then I was not as open as I could've been to BH. I really wish I had not cheated. It doesn't change that it happened but I do want to work for R someday.

Right now all we seem to do is either hurt each other or refuse to talk about it.

Even my own thoughts contradict things I have said previously. I will say/write something then a few days/weeks/months later I'll realise that it isn't even my truth. It like a what the hell was I thinking moment. Did I really believe that?

I will keep posting here as I really do want to work on getting to R with BH

ChamomileTea

Thank you I will try to have a talk with my BH about it....

My own head is full of contradictions and confusion. I'm asked to explain things, I explain them best as I can at the time but then when asked again I might have a different answer as I don't even really know myself, so I try to say what I think is the explaination for my actions before and after the A.

My head is a really confusing contradictory place to be at the best of times at worst it is full on self-sabotaging and self harmful and it can come out very hurtful and abusive towards others. This is where I think I need the most IC.

Hopefully we can try to be civil.

[This message edited by WTDIEC at 4:58 PM, Saturday, September 17th]

It wasn't genuine with AP

I think you need to explore this in IC. If it was 100 percent fake with AP then. . .

You need to be honest with yourself first.

This isn't about the texts per se. This is really about your BH wanting to understand that you would do as much, hopefully more, into your intimate relationgip with your BH.

That was shown not to be between the two of you. He wants that back and to shown that he is the only one you want to share that vulnerqbility with.

Right now he sees it as you are willing to do less for him than you did AP.

He doesn't believe your words right now. To be honest he shouldn't. He likely is picking up on the lack a motivation as a true test about how you really feel about your life with him.

He feels secondary to your intimate personal sexuality and feels he is being excluded.

I get you are trying to make it genuine, but he has been traumatized. Any reluctance combined with no trust puts the idea in his head that he is not meeting your needs.

In others words he doesn't believe you are into him in a sexual way.

It honesty I think there are more things in the past or around this A that are keeping you from connecting with him. You need to come clean with anything else. His gut is telling there are more hurtful details. He is just waiting to hear the full truth

It is not about you sexting him. It is about you validating that you are attracted to him. . .in that way.

Pornography is NOT "intimacy". The fact that you thought that is was is how you got into this mess to begin with and something that needs to be fixed. Relearning to love and respect yourself enough to be rock solid in your values and in your boundaries is what makes your partner safe, not this continued "hustling for love". What your BH is asking you to do is simply to change the recipient of an unhealthy behavior.

He's naturally feeling insecure right now so his feelings are understandable, but treating your sexuality as a commodity is NOT going to fix that. Feelings aren't facts. Your BH feels like he needs this proof that you'll do anything, but trading sexuality for security just proves that the sexuality is inauthentic and meaningless, the coin of the realm as it were. We don't always choose what's best for us. Your BH thinks some homemade porn will make the insecurity go away, but what it will actually do is increase it because it proves your sexuality is a commodity to be traded.

I just tried to read your profile and it's a bit of a jumbled mess. If I read it correctly, you state your BH asked if you were cheating and you said yes. You then asked your BH to film you a couple of times so you could send these videos to AP and get his opinion on your attractiveness. I'm assuming you're masturbating and "faking" it in these BH filmed videos, is that correct? BH issued an ultimatum to pick him or AP and you told BH you pick AP. Shortly after that AP let's you know he'll block you if he gets back with his ex. That revelation sorta pops the fantasy bubble in your mind. Now you decide AP was just using you and you decide to go back to BH.

I mean holy shit honey, what do you expect the man to do? Your story sounds incredibly and intentionally cruel. To me, it seems the faking it was more to hurt your BH and less to appeal to the AP. Are you sure you want to be with your husband? How the hell is he supposed to feel? You have an issue sending videos to this man when you had no issues faking while he's filming knowing you were sending them to someone else? What the actual fuck is going on in your mind? What consequences do you think are appropriate in your situation?

Right now my BH is only focused on the videos yet everytime I try to explain why I can't. I feel like I'm not listened to and he just shuts off.

Gently, the way out of an impasse is often to think about what you can and are willing to do rather than what you're unwilling to do. I suggest asking your H to work with you to figure out something that would satisfy his wants.

Easier said than done, I know.

And keep rereading the posts by CT and numb&dumb.

Buck, you have a pm.

You two are so early in the process. At this point your both in survival mode. As mentioned by others this video isn't going to make it go away, and certainly won't make him feel less betrayed. However, I believe what he is looking for is your willingness to make the effort. Maybe its not about being an authentic sexual experience.

I too sense alot of selfishness in your words. If everyone here is honest and truly reflect on how it was just three months in, they would see this as normal to the process.

Like I said, its early and your focus is mainly on how this has impacted you negatively and there seems to be very little empathy on your part. It seems like you're having a hard time separating you discomfort from his anger from your actions having created his anger. That will come with time along with true remorse for his pain.

In the meantime, it could help a great deal if you explained to you husband how you feel. The problem is you did it for the AP. So you should understand that this will make him feel less valued by you because you are unwilling to do it for him. So from his perspective he isn't as desirable to you as your AP was. All of the talk about you not being a sexual vendor is correct in the sense that you should never do things you don't want to do, however you will need to figure out a way to make your husband feel like a priority, to feel not just desirable but more desirable then the AP. Unfortunately at this point words will likely be ineffective because your words carry less value then they did before June 22'.

It honesty I think there are more things in the past or around this A that are keeping you from connecting with him. You need to come clean with anything else. His gut is telling there are more hurtful details. He is just waiting to hear the full truth

BH knows everything about the A. There are a whole slew of Childhood traumas I need to work through, BH knows all that I know, that being said I never felt that the A was about BH, I don't 100% understand how BH is feeling but I am trying to understand.
I have and always will want my BH sexually. I have done so much with him then I ever thought I'd do.