SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Lurkingsoul12
So, what are you expecting from this website? If you don't want to stand up for yourself then no amount support from this website will be of any help to you. It really breaks our heart to see when betrayed spouses choose to pain shop and give all the power to the unremoresful abuser.Please, stop this ASAP. Stand up for yourself and don't let her kill your self esteem and dignity. Don't let your world revolve around her. Your relationship with her is dead. Mourn it. And move on. Take control of your life.

asc1226
Foog, do you know what the prize for "winning" the pick me dance is? It’s an unremorseful, and in your case, active cheater.

Go to the healing library here and read the simplified 180. Other recommendations: Cheating in a Nutshell, The Journey From Abandonment to Healing and The Body Keeps the Score. Start moving forward out of infidelity.

SnowToArmPits

Sounds like now you have a friends with benefits relationship with her.

If she's really pretty maybe that's not so bad. Other than she sounds a bit unbalanced at this point, "don't stick your dick in crazy" may be applicable.

so can we just do the vacation please

I think you either reply "your dreamy new boyfriend can take you on vacation", or, you go on a friends with benefits vacation with her where she gets the vacation and you get sex with her.

Your days of a monogamous relationship with her are over, she's chasing other men. If you want a monogamous relationship then find a new, better girlfriend.

When you're having sex with her, wrap it up, look after your health.

LegsWideShut

Not sure asking anyone here anything else is worth their time anymore.

She has you twisted up, you know it, you honestly seem to not care that she does. Sorry mate, this is all on you now. You've received some great advice and refuse to listen to any of it any longer than it takes to read it.
Shes using you for that vacation. What a surprise that is.
Clearly you both need counseling.

Good luck

RubixCubed
@foog2

This is sadly pathetic, you need to get some self-respect.

You realize that if you go on vacation with her it will be an extended drawn-out version of the other day that you went over there. She will respond to Tinder propositions and dating sites while in bed with you. And from the joy she gets from torturing you, it wouldn't surprise me that if she found some guy she was interested in she'd hook up with him right in front of you then ask you to give her some time with him in YOUR room while you wait outside.

Don't do this to yourself.

pureheartkit

It's tough to love someone who's toying with your heart. She shouldn't be flaunting others in front of you. I talked often with my ws while I knew he was still chatting with ap. I missed our talks. I missed the connection. If she's going to be hurtful when you're reaching out, that's not going to be healing for you. The only way I could get past it was to get busy and fill up my life.

I appreciate the replies. I don't mean to waste anyone's time and I know it's frustrating when people don't listen to well meaning and good advice. I feel like my brain thinks logically but then whenever it comes to talking to her something just numbs out the brain and I just start going into some alternate mode where all I can think about is how much I miss her,the old, loyal, faithful her, and I grasp at anything I can to get close to that again. I think I'm going to cancel the vacation as I have an opportunity to tomorrow, at least I'm going to try my hardest too.

I feel like a giant chump, and I know I'm acting like one. This is the hardest thing mentally and emotionally I've ever been involved it and it's taking everything I have to not just have a constant anxiety attack. I have started therapy but we are only just getting into FOO things right now and not even touching the current situation.

I really appreciate everyone's time, even though it might not seem like it, I am really trying.

foog2,

You're not wasting anyone's time, this is an open forum, people can comment, or not. Don't feel bad for what has happened up to now, you're in a terrible frame of mind. Think about how you will behave moving forward.

This is a tough time for you. I wonder if framing it as withdrawal from an addiction might help.
Everytime she pays attention to you, it's like getting a hit. You feel soothed, your anxiety goes down for a short period of time. It's a sliver of the security you used to have, and you crave so much.

But - each of these hits keeps you stuck - in infidelity, and out of control. Her actions are framing and driving this drama.

If you can wean yourself off contact with her, you will suffer in the short term (you will, anyhow - infidelity is a pretty awful ride), but you are giving yourself a chance to be calm, and at peace, in the future.

Needless to say, you can't go on that vacation with her. You just can't.

Bumped at OP's request.

Well, I figured I would come back and just update everyone, thank everyone, tell everyone they were right, and just admit I’m another statistic of "you should have listened to everyone".

I know the last few posts in this thread were me being ignorant and lost, I felt like I was going crazy and the only thing that would stop it would be to continue to talk to her and fight for "us".
What ended up happening was we did go on that vacation on 12/5. She was on her phone a bit (since she was actively "dating" and was open about it with me). It of course hurt and had me questioning what the hell I was doing on vacation with my WIFE while she talked to who knows how many other guys. Overall the vacation went well, obviously requiring me to bury my head in the sand about what was happening and what I really wanted and COULD put up with vs what I told her I could handle (the dating).

We got back a few days later and I started sleeping at her place every night, basically living there. I kept telling her my one big line in the sand was no more AP, and she said they barely talked and all they really did was fight about how she was hanging out with me again. 12/15 she told me she was going to meet up with AP and exchange their stuff and cut off all ties, which happened.
During December we had multiple talks about the future and she was basically pretty honest and said she had no clue what she wanted, that she liked dating but also still loved me and what we had/have. I (stupidly) was grasping at any straws possible still, since it *FELT* like the pain of knowing she's dating but at least I’m still sleeping their every night (still had my foot in the door, so to speak) was less than the pain of her being gone completely. Obviously this was a very ignorant way to look at it, but my emotions were in control. I even went as far as to say I would be open to an open marriage *of some sort, at some point in the future*,if that meant I could still have her (this leads into what comes later). I know that it was the ultimate chump move on my part to even suggest it, but I guess that was me.
December carried into January, and I noticed she was on her phone less and less, and being more and more lovey to me and talking about a lot of future things like having a baby and buying a house. I was STILL keeping my head in the sand though, as she never outright said she was done with other guys and wanted to be exclusive again. My best friend/main support person would pester me daily to directly question her to make sure we were on the same page, but I didn’t want to know, to be honest, things SEEMED to be going in my favor and I didn’t want to ruin that.

Sometime mid-January I got up the courage to ask her if she was still talking to other people or dating. She told me she wasn’t on dating apps anymore and she wasn’t dating, but she did have one guy that she had been talking to for a few months but they just had good conversations and they never went anywhere romantically so they were just friends (I know, I know).
So December to February seemed like a solid, slow progression from "I want to date and IDK What I want at all" to more like "let’s have a baby soon, I love the life we have now" while albeit still having some red flags I chose to ignore, like she didn’t want to put the wedding rings back on yet, and didn’t want to add me back on social media accounts etc. "yet" as she would say. I pressured her on why a few times but she just said "idk I just don’t right now"

Feb 12th comes along. Her daughter (10yo) is with me at my work waiting for her to get out of work and pick her up to spend the day with her. I know she gets out at 12 but she didn’t show up to pick up her daughter until 2. Right when she gets to my work, she says "hey can you come outside and talk please?". I follow her nervously and immediately notice a huge hickey on her neck. She says "so, I was just wondering how we should go about this open relationship thing, because I want to pursue it…I personally would like a don’t ask, don’t tell policy, where you can do what you want and I do what I want and at most we just let each other know if we won’t be home for dinner or something".

I was obviously taken by surprise. I first focused on the fact that she (obviously) had already started this open relationship. I told her the most we had talked about an open anything was when I said SOME TYPE of open relationship at SOME POINT in the future. I told her that it was ridiculous that after the affair and all the lying 8 months ago, that she thought it would be okay to take action FIRST and ask me if it was OK AFTER. Absolutely ridiculous. She agreed and apologized, but her thoughts were all over the place. She blurted out "well maybe we jumped into this too soon then", but then followed it with "I really want to be with you, I’m sorry, I will go to couples therapy with you right away, we will get through this together, I promise".

The conversation ended there. The more I thought about it the more angry I got. Her daughter (who she only sees 1 weekend per month) was waiting for her, and I was babysitting her basically, and she thought taking an hour or two to make out with another guy was appropriate.

Once again I know you all will say I should have RAN the other way at this point (and probably many other points in this post so far) but, as before, I buried my head in the sand saying "well at least she said she will get through this together, she still didn’t leave me"

So we had a big talk the next day, and she basically said she was feeling like she didn’t know what she wanted again, and that she felt similar about this guy as she did about AP, where she didn’t think she could stop talking to him and was attached to him, but also that she really wanted us to work out, and wanted to go to therapy to "learn to detach from him" and she wanted to avoid another "conflict of conscience" (her term for lying and cheating/affair). . I told her that seemed logical and that I appreciated her honesty this time but that the only way she would detach from him is going NC, she said she wanted to talk to a therapist about it but would *try* to.

So even with all these negative things going on, I still kept telling myself "they key is that she’s being honest now. What hurt so much before was the lies and betrayal, now she’s being honest".

So the next day, Valentine’s Day, we had a dinner reservation for 3PM. One thing about STBX is that she is SUPER punctual. She HATES being late for anything and is usually at least 10 minutes early to anything she has an appointment for. She had class until 12 that day. I was sitting at the apartment when she called me at 2:45 saying she’s sorry she was late, she had stopped at her work to talk to her friend and lost track of time. It’s pretty obvious what it really was now, but at the time I said alright, no problem babe, just get home quick. We ended up being 30 minutes to dinner. I did not question her again about why she was late, I didn’t want to know or confirm she was once again lying to me.

So 2/14 to 2/23 she seemed to go back to "normal", yet I STILL wasn’t asking her the direct questions like "are you still talking to this guy?". As you can all see I have a giant problem with being ignorant, I guess. 2/23 my buddy calls me up and says "hey, I just saw your wife with some dude in her car in (town)". I call her and she forwards my call, then texts me "hey I’m on the phone with my boss I’ll call you back." My heart dropped. There it was. A confirmed lie, once again. Liars Lie, Cheaters Cheat kept repeating in my head.
She eventually called me back and I once again tried to give her a chance to admit it, I asked her how her day was and what she talked about with her boss and if she did anything after work, she said no, she was just leaving work now actually, and then, possible out of guilt, got really sweet and asked me if I wanted a special dinner tonight or anything. I told her no thanks, and waited for her to get home.

She got home and I immediately said "so I know you were with that guy today, and you lied about it, what the fuck? I thought we had the talk about this?" Her response was "we did, and I told you I was going to *try* to distance myself from him, but that obviously didn’t work". So I said it’s not really even that you were with him, it’s that you LIED TO ME ABOUT IT. You were doing so well with being open and honest, what made you start hiding it? She said "I guess I’m just a selfish person, I didn’t want you to leave and I knew you would if you knew. I can’t stop talking to this guy, but I want to, I just need to get help and need some time to figure this out, it’s obviously not healthy if I can talk about having a baby with you and about our future while I also have feelings for another person to the point where I’m attached to them, I’m sorry for trying to cake eat again"

So with her having admitted all of that, I packed all of my stuff and moved back into my place. The last thing she said to me was "I’m going to get an emergency session at my therapist, I want us to work, I really do, I just need some space, from both of you".

That was Thursday Night. Friday goes by, nothing. Saturday, nothing. Sunday, nothing. My buddy says he once again saw her with that guy on Saturday morning. I know she works 4am to 12pm on Saturdays so she apparently called out to spend the day with him. I couldn’t take the anxiety from now knowing what was going on and called her on Sunday. Her attitude was completely different, basically saying "All I do is hurt you, everyone is telling you to run away from me, so you should. I don’t even know if I’m happy with you. I’m very confused and it’s not fair to you, all I do it hurt you, We just need a clean break".

So for once you’d all probably agree with something she said. But me being me, I didn’t agree. I told her that’s bullshit and she should be fighting for us just like I have been for the past 8 months. That once again she’s in Limerence and addicted to the honeymoon phase with this guy and is going to throw away something great for some guy she barely knows. I spend maybe an hour on the phone telling her all the reasons to not give up on us (stupid, I know), this ended in her saying she needed a few days to think.

So Tuesday, 2/28, she sends me this text, once again flip flopping from her attitude in the phone call

"Hey. So I applied to a few more placed to be a patient. I’m hoping to do individual counseling and then some couples sessions. Clearly I have something to work on. I miss you a lot. I do need more time though. Which is something I know you don’t want to hear. I want you to know that this isn’t just me replacing you again, I’m really trying to understand my feelings and why I feel like I can’t stop this. I promise soon we will meet and talk. I know you’re lost and hurting and it hurts me so bad I have passive thoughts (about suicide) again. I love you so very much. You aren’t replaceable. I’m just a little broken and lost myself. Hold on a little longer please. I love you and one day hope to be someone you’re proud of again"

So that text obviously got my hopes way up. She hadn’t seemed that adamant about getting help and "being someone I’m proud of again" in a long time. I still told her I am not doing the waiting game or pick me dance and we needed to meet up to talk SOON since I wanted to know what was going on. She told me we could meet tomorrow.

So we meet up, and ONCE AGAIN her mood had flip flopped from the message to "I really don’t know what I want, I don’t know what I’m doing, I really can’t stop talking to this guy, but I want to try to at least" I told her once again I’m not doing the pick me dance and I need a solid plan in place, not "IDK what I’m doing".

She once again told me she would try extra hard to get into therapy and keep me updated. She called me a few days later on 3/3 to tell me she got approved for acute therapy and was starting on 3/14. I told her that was great to hear but that I still couldn’t and wouldn’t do the pick me dance, so if she was still talking to this other guy that we couldn’t talk.

This is when something weird happened. She suddenly started to say how right I was about how she was chasing honeymoon feelings, how she was in the fog again, how she was just chasing male validation because her father never loved her. She asked me to go to dinner that night. I told her I would but only if she could confidently tell me she wasn’t going to see or talk to the other guy, and she said she wouldn’t. She continued being extremely lovey to me for the next few days, asking me to pick out lingerie for her to wear for me, sending me a lot of *those* types of pics, calling and texting me a lot, had me buy concert tickets for a future event, and even started saying "I love you" again (We hadn’t been saying "love" since the affair in November). She even showed me a meme she said she was going to try and live her life by now, which said something along the lines of "don’t chase the chemicals, chase character, don’t chase the sparks, the slow burning fire will always be there" etc. etc. Basically saying to stop chasing the Limerence drugs and realize what she had with me was enough.

This really made me happy as it seemed like something just "clicked" in her head finally. So we spent 3/3 to 3/7 in our own little honeymoon phase, I slept there a few times, she kept saying she was excited for her therapy appointment and eventual couples sessions and kept being SUPER lovey.

3/7 came and I went to surprise her with Starbucks early in the morning. I went to open her apt door but hear her talking. I listened in and realized she was on speakerphone with a guy. The first thing I heard was her say "I already let you c*m in me a bunch of times hehehe" and him saying "and we both enjoyed it didn’t we!" to which she said "yes, yes we did".

I slumped down to the ground like in a movie. I listened for a few more minutes. She talked to him just like she talked to me. She laughed the way she used to laugh with me, she made the cute noises and used the cute words she did with me, she said she missed him, how cute he was. I heard him ask her what she was up to (we had plans to go out) and she said nothing and that she had just passed out last night (she was with me) and realized she was lying to and playing him too.

I left. I wanted to barge in the door and start yelling so he knew, but I was so angry I just left. She messaged me a little later on acting normal, actually sent me a few lingerie pics asking me to pick one out for her to wear. I checked her call logs (something I hadn’t done since Dday) and saw she had been calling him every day since the "hickey day" on 2/12. Whenever she wasn’t with me she was on the phone with him, even when she was texting me pics or saying she missed me, she was on the phone with him. I messaged her and told her I had to come over and talk. She said no, and that she didn’t want a big talk today, blah blah. I said sorry, it has to be today.

I get there and she obviously knew something was up and was in her "apathetic" mood she used so much during the affair, post DD. I sat on her bed and started crying and she basically said "Ugh, do we have to do this today, of ALL days, I just wanted to relax and do my homework". I said well, your husband of 8 years is sitting in front of you crying, I didn’t know there was a specific day reserved for this". She sighed and said "OK, what's up".

I told her about what I heard earlier when I came to surprise her and that I looked at the logs and saw she was doing. She tried to gaslight me and said she was FURIOUS that I invaded her privacy like that. I told her to not even bother gas lighting. I told her she was furious she got caught and furious that she’s now in a awkward and uncomfortable conversation, not that I invaded her privacy. I asked her how the FUCK could she spend this past week love bombing me into oblivion, basically making more of an effort than she had since leaving me for AP 8 months ago, while also getting even closer to this guy? I asked her, what was your plan this time? Were you just waiting until you knew which one you were going to pick? Were you just cake eating again? She said she was on the fence about which one to pick, and that yes, she’s just a fucked up broken, extremely selfish person who clearly needs mental help. I once again asked why there was a need for tripling down on the love and future planning and telling me you realized this and that, when you clearly had NO intention of stopping things with this other guy? She just kept saying " I don’t know" and "I’m just fucked up, this is why everyone is telling you to run"

I asked her what her plan was now that I caught her, and she said she is going to see where things go with this guy. I knew she was having trouble with her bills as I was helping her with them, and I asked if she was going to move him in too, almost as a joke, and she said "I don’t know" and looked down. I asked her why I wasn’t enough. She said she didn’t know, that was I the perfect husband now, that I fixed all my flaws from our past marriage that made her unhappy, and that maybe it was a sign that maybe I just wasn’t her type anymore, that people change and she realized that she goes for the heavily tattooed bad boy types now (AP was and this guy is) while I hate tattoos and have nothing like a "bad boy" attitude, that she never felt the "dangerous love" for me that she felt for her ex-fiancé (who died and is how we met) or for AP from the first affair, that maybe we just grew apart and were different people now who wanted different things. I told her that is all fine and dandy EXCEPT what the fuck was the past 3 months and ESPECIALLY this past week then? It really seemed like you had an epiphany and started love bombing me but you were talking to him the whole fucking time. She just kept saying she wished she had answers for me, that I deserved so much better than her, that she’s just a mental basket case, that she DID mean all the things she said to me over the past week, but also has feelings for this other guy, and yes it was super selfish of her to lie to me to keep me around until she knew If they would work out of not, but it’s what happened and she can’t take it back, and that’s why we needed to just say goodbye for good.
So in the matter of 2 weeks she went from "just run away from me" to " I just need time" to "I don’t know what I want" to "I love you so much I can’t wait for our future family" and finally to "he’s probably moving in, we need to say goodbye".

I don’t need you all to tell me she’s clearly messed up in the head and needs serious help, but admitting that fact to myself, that my loving, faithful wife of 8 years is now this complete heartless monster, is destroying me inside. This is the second time she picked another guy over me and "left" me for him, while stringing me along the whole time.

I spend a LOT of time in my head over the past three months convincing myself that I’m intelligent enough to KNOW that she’s different, that our story is different from all the others on SI and infidelity groups, that I’m smart enough to KNOW this an exception to the rule that liars lie and cheaters cheat, but now I’m realizing that was just me grasping at straws, looking for that temporary fix to the immense pain of losing her. It hurts so badly, now even more than before as this is the second betrayal, and of course if I had just listened to all of you I would already be three months into healing, but I feel like I’m at square one.

I guess something to take away from this for anyone in my position is read my last paragraph above a few times. Yes there are some rare cases where the story doesn’t follow the usual narrative, but don’t convince yourself you are that one. Play it safe, and also don’t bury your head in the sand like I did to avoid seeing/hearing things you don’t want to, it might temporarily postpone the hurt, but it will just hurt more later.

I’m currently just waiting for the signed divorce papers to show up in my mailbox and I’m proceeded without delay in that regard, we’ve said our goodbyes after that last conversation above on 3/7 and I know my only road now is to stay NC and just try and heal as best as I can. I start IC next week as well.

As much as I ignored all of the advice on here, I really do and did appreciate it, just re-reading all the replies in hindsight makes me wonder why I couldn’t listen before, but here I am.

Hey Foog

It takes as long as it takes to be done with the cheater. It took me a year, despite the good words of SI, everyone I know in my personal life, and my IC all pointing out the enormous red flags all around me. Don’t beat yourself up. The key is that you are moving forward now.

Yes, it hurts like nothing else. That they cheated on us and then didn't really fight for us. Totally sucks.

but here’s the thing. You will heal. You will feel better. You will get over her and see how she was not good for you and that your relationship was not what you thought it was. (We all see what we want to see- not necessarily what is real and true.)

Get into IC to help you move through this. It can really help. Let your IRL friends and family know so they can support you. Take care of yourself- eat well, exercise, drink lots of water, get enough sleep and exercise. These help body and mind. And trust that you will get through this - because you really will.

You are not a chump. You are a man who loved his wife and did his darndest to R. But it takes two and she didn’t show up. that’s her shame, not yours. Hold your head high.

Don't be hard on yourself. At least your dance ended within a year. It's not easy to detach from a spouse. There are cases where BS hold on to hopium for many years or even decades before they realize it's hopless and not gonna work. Seeing how much of a mental mess your ex is you escaping her within a year from dday is actually great news and gives comfort to us. You have gone through a literal nightmare. Be glad that you ended it within a year. Now, focus on your healing and never ever break NC with her. I get the feeling that she will come crawling back to you in the future to pull you back to her toxic cesspool. Just don't take her back. Run as far as you could.

Also, I feel very bad for her 10-year-old kid. Can't you do anything for her? Like taking her in your custody or something. I know this will break the NC, but still, that kid with no functional parent left to care for her is gonna have a hard time growing up. Prayers for you and for that kid.

[This message edited by Lurkingsoul12 at 8:54 PM, Saturday, March 11th]

Does this meen you have learned you lesson? You wife has been using you as a fall back plan. SHE WILL DO IT AGAIN. Is that what you want. Maybe it is. She left a door open in you house to sneak a guy in while you were there. They could have harmed you. This woman is dangerous. Cut her out of your life. Chang e your phone number, remove her from all docs related to you and your life. Remove her from scocial media. Move away and tell her to never ever contact you again.

She knows she can play you and has done so for 9 years. Noone is this vile to a freind or someone they love like a brother. Sad part is you are not her brother but her husband. She will be back. hopefully she will not be able to find you. You are the money train.

Lurkingsoul12

Don't be hard on yourself. At least your dance ended within a year. It's not easy to detach from a spouse. There are cases where BS hold on to hopium for many years or even decades before they realize it's hopless and not gonna work. Seeing how much of a mental mess your ex is you escaping her within a year from dday is actually great news and gives comfort to us. You have gone through a literal nightmare. Be glad that you ended it within a year. Now, focus on your healing and never ever break NC with her. I get the feeling that she will come crawling back for you in the future to string you back in her toxic cesspool. Just don't take her back. Run as far as you could.

Also, I feel very bad for her 10-year-old kid. Can't you do anything for her? Like taking her in your custody or something. I know this will break the NC, but still, that kid with no functional parent left to care for her is gonna have a hard time growing up. Prayers for you and for that kid.

As if this wasn't even more of a red flag.....her daughter has a great father, her ex husband from when she was 16. She left him when 6 months pregnant, for his best friend (who is the now deceased guy). The fathers parents actually had a court ordered paternity test because they thought she was cheating with the best friend before moving out, considering how she just up and left him for his best friend, and the kid might be the best friends, but it turned out it was the fathers. So they took her to court and she gave up all rights to her daughter and they semi-co parented for 2 years. She then moved here 100 miles away to be with me, and I had to constantly bug her to have her daughter come up to spend time with her or to go visit her. It was only recently when I even got them on a 1 weekend per month schedule. A lot of people who know the whole story (including her own family) tell me that her relationship with her daughter and the things she does in regards to priorities (like meeting up with this latest guy to make out for 2 hours when her daughter was waiting with me to see her on the 1 weekend this month she could) should be the biggest red flag of them all as to what type of morals and character she has.

All in all everyone says I dodged a giant bullet, but right now all I can think is that I didn't want to be shot at in the first place. I miss her.

I didn't know daughter's biological father is a different person and is alive. I thought that deceased guy was her father. Well, she is safe with her biological father. Atleast you don't need worry about her anymore. Your Ex is a hopper. She hops from one person to another. She will leave this current ap for another. It's inevitable. Just avoid her like a plague. You take care of yourself, Sir. Good luck.

I have a lot to say but not a lot of time right now so I am going to simply say this for now:

Your wife may be beautiful on the outside, but right now and probably all through her past, there is nothing beautiful on the inside. It may have been caused by what others did to her, perhaps even how you interacted with her during the marriage contributed, but whatever caused it, it’s broken and damaged and even disturbed inside there.

And you cannot fix it. Only she can, and it would take years.

Once you admit this to yourself, you can still care about her, you can feel bad for her, but that does not mean it’s right for you to be with her.

From what you described, there is no path to happiness with her as she is right now. Only a path to happiness without her.

So if you can stick to the road to divorce and find your own support in the form of a trauma therapist, then you have a chance to get to happiness on your own, and eventually, hopefully, with someone else.

I wish you well.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 9:39 PM, Saturday, March 11th]

You can walk away knowing you gave it your best. You tried to the end. You were willing to do almost anything to make the M work.

Except allow your wife to continue cheating.

Your wife (STBXW) has a serial cheater mentality unfortunately.

You will heal. You will survive. You will have a happy life.

Just have no contact with her. None. Ever.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 12:03 PM, Sunday, March 12th]

Hi Foog2, I'm new to the forum; when your post was bumped I had to go back and read your story from the beginning. I was really rooting for you - hoping you could see what everyone else saw. I was hoping you'd take the advice given to you, go NC, file for D, don't go on that vacation. It's crazy how when you're in the middle of it all, you don't really "see" what everyone else around you is seeing. Your STBX is broken inside - from whatever and whoever hurt her in her past. There were probably a lot of red flags in front of you from the beginning. The whole daughter situation is one red flag - if she didn't care enough to retain custody from the beginning and was so willing to sign over all her parental rights to her ex and inlaws - THAT should have been a huge clue in to her psyche and should have told you then that she is a very selfish person. You shouldn't be someone's second choice, or a fall back plan in case something else didn't work out - you don't want to be a "sure thing", that reliable guy that will always be there when/if she wants to come back when other things don't work out. Don't be that guy! Not now - not ever. Work on that in your own IC. You deserve so much more than this! You really MUST stick to your guns and remain NC forever. You need to get strong so that those old tricks she used on you in the past to reel you back into her nightmare won't work on you anymore. Hell go back and read what you wrote as a reminder of all the toxic horrible things she did to you - and continued to do to you as she strung you along with false hope. You have an opportunity to take your life back - you're in control of that. Don't go back to that toxic craziness. It reminds me of something a family member once told me about a terribly toxic relationship he was involved in - he stayed because he was lonely, he liked the fact that his GF had a large family; they accepted him and he loved being around them - having dinners, spending holidays there. his GF was a horrible person and treated him badly - and he'd say, staying w/ her was better than not having anyone. "Something" was better than nothing. Even if that something was horribly toxic. He was divorced and his only son was in the military and lived several states away. He craved the companionship so much that he put up with an alcoholic hot mess of a "girlfriend" who made it clear that she was only in it for the money he would give her to help w/ bills. He was about 15 yrs older than her. He funded their vacations, he paid her bills (all, some? he never said), he bought groceries, bought her alcohol. Whatever she wanted, he would get. ALL THE WHILE she was entertaining other men and probably getting those other men to do the same things for her - funding her lifestyle. It's tough to be a good friend and watch all this unfold - because good friends will see what train wreck lies ahead. The last straw was a drunken night when she spilled her guts about how she wouldn't marry him unless he put her as a beneficiary on his life insurance. It took something like that to shake him loose from this awful human. Your wife wanted you to be waiting around on the sidelines while she pursued your replacement. I'm sorry you had to live through that. Take care of yourself - get yourself healthy (mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually if that's your thing) - but focus on your WHOLE self so you can heal from this. You've been through hell - a massive betrayal and subsequent heartbreak. But now it's time for you to heal. I wish you the best of luck!

I appreciate all the replies. I am doing my best to stay NC, and I think I'll be able to stick it out. I am focusing on myself as best I can, but I still am having a lot of mind movies and keep replaying what I heard in my head (her conversation with AP2) and how she just gets to hop from guy to guy since she was 16, leaving devastation in her wake, like a tornado, but she just has her "fresh start" and ignores her wake of devastation every time she hops. I guess it's just my ego and irrationality that wishes she would "get what she deserved" or at least be accountable for her actions and all the lives she's messed up by repeatedly hopping, but I guess I have to settle for the fact that she's not my problem anymore and it shouldn't matter to me.

Truth is, she already knows she is messed up. She has repeatedly told you that she is fucked up in her mind, she needs lot of therapy and is totally unsafe for you. Now that you have left that nightmare you can save yourself, recover and move on and will have better life for yourself. But, in case of her, she will never be happy. She is a junkie. One day she hit rock bottom and will breakdown. That will be the moment when she will have a very clear understanding of what she has done to herself and others who cared for her, especially to her daughter. That realization will cause her excruciating pain she has never experienced in her life. That day is inevitable. Her conscience, her mind and body keeps the score. You are fortunate that you are not her.

Is she bi-polar? She reminds me a lot of a friend I used to have who is bi-polar. She had a very good heart, but she always did stuff like your (soon to be ex?) wife does. Her husband chose to stay with her, and they're still together to this day, but they continually hurt each other. I hope for better for you.

There's nothing to save here unless you're willing to share her. Are you willing to do that?

If not, bless her and send her on her way. Maybe even say a little prayer for her because her life will be difficult without you and your kindness to fall back on. (But please don't ever take her back.)

After you heal, you will find love again. Life will be beautiful again.

I spend a LOT of time in my head over the past three months convincing myself that I’m intelligent enough to KNOW that she’s different, that our story is different from all the others on SI and infidelity groups, that I’m smart enough to KNOW this an exception to the rule that liars lie and cheaters cheat, but now I’m realizing that was just me grasping at straws, looking for that temporary fix to the immense pain of losing her. It hurts so badly, now even more than before as this is the second betrayal, and of course if I had just listened to all of you I would already be three months into healing, but I feel like I’m at square one.

I wish it were about intelligence, if so, many of us wouldn't be here. I'm an attorney who went to a very good law school and I was blindsided by infidelity. It seems like a lot of folks around here are highly intelligent and accomplished.

One thing that really helped me when I quit smoking was that each day that passed without a cigarette was a day I'd never have to go through again if I didn't smoke. The first day was absolutely brutal, but since I haven't started smoking again I never had to go through it again. I think of that a lot these days with moving forward with healing. Each first is hard, but it only has to be a first once.

foog2 - I am going to say this lightly, as many of us can raise our hand on here and say we too stayed with a cheater for way too long. At some point you know how rotten her soul is at the core, you know she is a cheater, you know she has lied to you. The help you need and AGAIN I say this lightly, is how to find out what is inside you that you still want to cling to her or be with her. That is where YOUR work lies, in finding a good IC to work out your own issues of why you stay or even want to stay with her.

For all of us it can be different, but it usually has something to do with our childhood and events in our childhood. But to do this you will need to start with a complete hard 180 on her - detachment from crazy is your friend, trust me. She is a hot mess and is even telling you she is a hot mess. I think you are attached to the feeling of being a "helper" or "doer", what many will call a "white knight" for a female. That can be fabulous if you find a good soul, but really horrible when you attach to a bad soul. They will take everything you are giving and toss you aside. No empathy or thought for you, only for them and what they want.

Then you find yourself a good IC and book that appointment and start working on you and helping yourself.

Thanks for coming back to update. That suggests you are a very generous and big-hearted person, very positive attributes and strengths which may have added to your efforts to believe in your ExWP. Please try not to come down hard on yourself. Hopefully once you start IC this will help you focus on you, and will help you look at your unmet needs, any family of origin issues, your attachment style, your place, hopes, fears, ideals, in your wider circle of work, friends and family, amongst many other things that may help you see why you steadfastly kept trying to believe in her despite all the information at every turn that suggested she is a user and taker. It would be great to hear from you along the road of recovery how you are getting on, that could be inspirational to others just setting off on the same path.

[This message edited by Edie at 10:58 AM, Monday, March 27th]

Hi All. Just figured I would stop in for an update. It's been around 6 weeks since the "goodbye". The first few weeks were hard, but I slowly started feeling better. Something that helped this along was getting back into old hobbies I had before we met which kept my mind off of everything, after a few weeks of diving into them I also realized how fun they were, and how much free time I have now. It's made/making me rethink how and why I got to a point in my head where I thought that STBX was EVERYTHING to me and nothing else mattered, when in fact there was lots of other things I enjoyed that she was actually taking away from, in her particular state of having affairs. I see her much more now for who she is and what she's done to me rather than the woman I NEEDED no matter what.

Back when we said goodbye I told her to leave the signed divorce papers in my mailbox and she said she would the following week, which never happened, which is kind of another slap in the face, like if you're going to have multiple affairs and weave all these webs of lies, at least make the disconnect from you easy for me after you're caught, but no, you can't even do that. I gave it a month waiting and they never showed up, so I filed on my end without them and she will be served the papers and have to return them to the court directly. I have no idea what she's up to now and honestly don't really care at this point.

An ironic fact that is probably different than many stories, is that my ex-SIL (her sister) still lives with me. She lived with us for the past 5 years and we were close during that time, really good friends. When the first affair happened, SIL took my side (as did almost all of STBX's family and friends, weirdly) and when STBX moved out she told SIL that she wanted to be alone and basically to "fend for herself", so SIL came with me to my new apartment. We have a good room-mate relationship still and she is not on friendly terms with STBX and doesn't communicate with her really, so that hasn't caused any issues for me either. It's actually nice to have a passive connection through her to be able to get updates (only when I ask) about the dog STBX took and my ex-step daughter as they were obviously important to me.

All in all I guess I'm just another person saying "it gets better, just give it time", but I know 2 months ago that statement meant literally nothing to me, but I'm still going to say it anyways for everyone who needs to hear it. Looking back, I've been through so much with this situation, such a crazy roller coaster, and I remember it feeling like it was never going to end, but going NC and breaking through that wall of hopelessness was the key to getting a grip on everything and starting to heal.

Thank you for such a great update. Glad things are improving for you.

I’m also glad you see the reality of who your STBXW really is.

You deserve better.