SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

When ducks hatch they need to imprint on their mothers immediately. If they can’t, they imprint on anything. They become devoted to dogs, people etc. so what I see is you imprinted on your wife because you were so young. It keeps you from standing back and looking at things rationally. In fact it is keeping you imprisoned emotionally. You are driving yourself crazy to prove a point when you have already proved it. She cheated. The ONLY thing she did not do is have tab A in slot B. EVERYTHING else was done which means she cheated.
You remind me of someone who has a formula that numerically has no end. It goes on forever. That is what you are doing. The idea that you will know every little thing that went on between them is impossible. It is a never ending number.
Please use therapy for yourself to get to a place where you can accept the truth. At that point you can decide marriage or divorce but in the meantime you haven’t ruined your health with this never ending stress.

It is difficult for me to reply to you, the people I prefer to communicate with the least in my life are people like you.

I think you prefer to have a dream in your mind and live it, you want to be away from reality.

The problem is your wife's growing environment,

Your wife must have been used to lying and using people from the moment she knew herself, she developed with the instinct of survival.

It is normal for her to have a relationship with people she likes or who will benefit her.

Why does your wife stay with you?

Your mindset is ideal for her.

You are the person she can use, control, manipulate,

Your wife never leaves evidence because the family and social environment in which she grew up sees hiding/denying/manipulating as a way of life. She must be a master at this.

Actually, you have a lot of evidence but you ignore it. Even if you catch her in bed, you are the person who will buy the rape/drug story if your wife denies it.

I am not giving you lawyer advice, divorce is not an option for you, your mental health is not suitable.

Please find a therapist who will help you understand the facts, not someone who gives you religious suggestions, and focus on your own development.

Bump.

Bump per OP request

Hello
I just wanted to post.
I have been having a very hard time.
Since my last post I have been doing a lot of thinking. I have been reviewing me and my wife's entire relationship and marriage. I have sadly come to the conclusion that my wife is a narcissist. I believe that she has likely been a narcissist since before we were married.
She cheated on me before we were married. Having sex with a lowlife looser.I only had proof of the one cheat but suspected more. Looking back she likely had sex with multiple other guys before we were married.
I caught her in another affair 10 years after we were married and she trickle truth me a little bit at a time only telling me the truth when she knew that I knew more than what she was telling me.
She only confessed to them masturbating each other to orgasm twice. That is all I had proof of.
I believe that was a lie and that they likely had sex multiple times. How many 35 year olds are going to secretly meet at a quiet location and make out several times with at least two of those times getting so hot with each other that both of their pants are down and they are feeling each other off and stop at that point without having sex. I don't see how that would be possible.
I believe that the affair is the only one that I caught her with proof something was going on. I believe she likely has had multiple affairs a had sex with multiple men but I was to dumb to notice or really accept my gut because I my love for her. I believe that she is truly narcissist and will deny, lie,and not accept responsibility or admit to any wrong doing unless I have proof. Even without having proof the circumstances on many different issues don't add up with some of the ridiculous excuses she has given me. I believe she is a true narcissist because she has multiple personalities. She is such a sweet person when she is at work or out and everyone loves her and would probably never suspect she was capable of having an affair. She is truly a beautiful woman. I am not saying that because she is my wife. She is beautiful and guys have always been drawn to her. Looking back I see how she would smile and communicate with guys more than just a friendly type of way. Smiling ear to ear and batting those beautiful eyes at them even with me present. Me being to dumb to even think twice about it because I thought she loved me as much as I loved her. I would and could never cheat on her. Looking back just makes me sick and want to throw up because I believe our entire relationship and marriage hasn't been what I thought it was. I just can not make myself believe I have been played for so long because of my love for her. I feel so stupid for allowing it. Yet here I am with another post.I still don't want to believe my gut. I want to believe her and her sometimes ridiculous excuses for things that don't seem right because of my love that I still have for her. Do I need kicked in the face by someone to give me a wakeup call? Why do I sit here questioning myself for the rather obvious things she has done to me? What is wrong with me that I love her so much I can't accept the obvious? I still don't want to believe the things she has obviously done that are not appropriate in a marriage. Feel so betrayed yet I still love this woman and don't want to accept that she probably doesn't love me and probably never did. How can I change and look at other possibilities of a truly happy life without her? Someone who I have loved basically my entire life. Please help me. Please tell me how to do this if you have been in my shoes. Please tell me how I can turn off the love that I have for her when it gets more obvious every day that I have been played and still getting played. I know I have a problem and need help. I am a good person and would love to experience true love and experience a relationship with no questions of infidelity in the relationship. Someone who truly loves me and I can trust. My love and dedication to my wife are keeping me from this and I truly think I am putting myself through pure hell trying to believe we have something special when we actually don't. Please read this entire post and see what I have been through the last 30 years with her. Some please help me. Please help me to find the courage to see my wife as she is and not someone I want her to be. I just can not turn my love for her off. It is like she has a spell on me or something. I don't understand myself at this point. I am not putting myself on a pedestal but I am an attractive man, very muscular and fit very kind,and very smart. Over the years I have been approached and I multiple opportunities to cheat on my wife with beautiful women.I feel like I could find true love if I can change myself and accept that what I have isn't real. Please help me and thank you in advance to anyone who will take the time to read my post and help me.

It just so humiliating to make these post.I am just so confused as to why I can not give up on this marriage even with things being so obvious. It is like I can not live without her yet I am putting myself through hell trying to ignore the truth and keep trying to convince myself and questioning myself what is the truth and what is a fairly tell. It's like my mind is telling me to open my mind and accept she doesn't love me and move on but it is also telling me that I can not ever be happy without her in my life and find true love. I also feel like I am so weak for not facing reality.

It maybe love, but I don’t think so. Even if it is, you don’t love her, you love the mask she wears, not the real thing. Fear is what is keeping you trapped. If she is a true narcissist, all she cares about is how you make her feel, but as clearly shown by serial cheating, she doesn’t care about you at all. You are being manipulated, and severely emotional abused. Yes. You are being abused. Say it again to yourself. Once you understand that, then you can understand why you feel that you can’t leave. It’s abuse 101. Look at a website called out of the FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) it’s for victims of abuse and how to escape it.

This is what grey rock is for. This is what no contact is for. It’s well documented has narcissistics are like vampires, they suck your life force out. It’s like being a walking blood bag.

The best way to escape her is NC. Leave, block, never speak to her again. Let go of what you wanted the marriage to be, it’s not. It’s a lie. You gave your all to the wrong person, it happens to everyone, but don’t let it trap you.

I promise, grey rock (one word answers, no ILY, no emotional connection) and removing her from your life is the best way. It’s scary, it will hurt at first. You will miss her, but after a short while you will feel free. And remind yourself that you don’t miss her. She is a serial cheater, she matters to herself more than anyone, she is a user and abuser.

Take care of yourself.

Have you considered what you need to make a final decision? Would it be explicit video of her and another? That’s unlikely. What about a polygraph? What were the results of that?

If she’s truly a narc, they tend to pick those who are codependent to marry. Have you started IC and explored whether this is you?

I do believe I am in love with the mask or what I want my wife to be, which is the person that she is when she is at work or out shopping. The sweet beautiful woman that everyone loves. I have told her she treats strangers and the people that she works with better than me. It has been a very long time since she showed me the love and charm that she has to give but not to me. She never initates intimacy and when I do ask her for sex she gives me sex but with no passion. No making out kissing or foreplay. She acts like she just wants to have quick sex and wants to get it overwith quick. Like she is just not into it or really enjoying it at all. I have caught her just looking at me with a blank expression and can tell she is likely faking any enjoyment from the sex.

I am to the point that I really don't believe she loves me. My brain is in chaos and will not let me love her or give up on our marriage.
We never took a polygraph. I could ask her to do that but I don't know if she would or not.
To be honest I believe if she took one and somehow passed, I still really don't think I would believe her with all the things that have happened. There are so much that I can find no way to believe that they are just coincidences or more to all the things that have happened.
I believe that I would actually feel better if she told me the truth no matter what she has done instead of denying everything that in black and white looks like has happened. At least then I would be able to see that I am not crazy.
After looking back I do believe that I am codependent. What I want and what is reality has been slowly revealed to me. Problem is that I still don't want to let go.
30 years is a long time but I am believing more everyday that I have lived a life of lies and deception from my wife.

I will give you an idea where I am at.
If I was one of my friends and I was looking at myself and I was giving myself advice I would be the friend that would be telling myself that I was living in a fairy tale and divorce my wife so I could be happy and not constantly in hell with the lies and deception from my wife and driving myself crazy second guessing reality.
What is driving me nuts is that from my prospective as me living my life is that I am having trouble accepting the reality of my situation.
It's like I am my own enemy for refusing to accept the facts for what they are and my brain is twisting the reality to where I am the one that is falsely accusing my wife for things that she is actually innocent of. The reality of my situation is she isn't innocent or the person I thought or want her so badly to be.
It is truly mind bending and I believe it is the reality of what my wife is and has always been that is ripping my heart out and crushing me.
It is very hurtful for me to try and make myself believe that I have been a pushover, doormat, and fool for 30 years of my life.
It is destroying me.

Looking back I really believe that my wife is narcissist and likely that she has been since we started dating in high school.
I feel like such a fool and hit the bottom every time I see more of the true person my wife really is, knowing that she has likely played me for most of my life.
Especially given the fact that I have treated her like a queen and worked my ass off to try and give her everything she ever wanted to make her happy.
The waking up to the reality of my situation hurts so bad.

My friend,

This is going to be a 4x4, but it’s not an attack on you. I’ve said everything to say, you are in an abusive relationship. Your WW is abusing you. Taking advantage, hurting you. This is not a situation where R is possible. Hope, pray, believe soul mate or whatever, none of that is true. She isn’t your soulmate, she is your abuser and doesn’t care. God did not make you meet her to be abused. She’s beyond broken, and doesn’t love you as you love her. Harsh, but true. She will cheat again, if she isn’t already because she’s a serial cheat. Proven multiple times. Nothing will wake her up, nothing is going to suddenly change her to actually be a wife. She will cheat, abuse you, string you along because you are her blood bag.

Give into your anger and let it motivate you, you need to escape. Quit making excuses as to why.

Or don’t, and stay miserable, and go to an early lonely grave because of the stress this is putting on you. You died tomorrow, you think she’s going to cry? Think she won’t already have another man or three lined up to take advantage of?

What I am dealing with is that she is so convincing that I actually start to question myself. I start to say to myself that what if she is telling the truth and I am the one who is falsely accusing her of things she did but in reality she hasn't done them. It like I loose my logic and start to believe her no matter how crazy her answers seem.
I start questioning my accusations.
Here is a perfect example.
When I caught my wife in her affair first it was just someone she worked with and he never tried to do anything with her and they were just friends. Then it was he has said inappropriate things but she told him that it was inappropriate and not to do that again. Then he hugged me but that was it. Then he kissed me one time and it was just a pop kiss and it only happened one time. She said she told him that wasn't right and to not ever do that again. She swore on the Bible, her Dad's Name and our Daughter's Name that that was all the ever happened. I called the guy that night and told him that I wanted to meet with him and threatened to contact his wife if he didn't meet with me. My wife didn't know I called him or was going to meet with him.
We met and I told him I wanted the truth from him and explained that it was important for him to tell me the truth because my wife had told me everything that they had done. I didn't tell him what she had told me so he would not know.
The first sentence out of his mouth was we didn't have sex. I told him to tell me what they did do.
He said they met on multiple occasions and made out multiple times. He said there was heavy petting. He said on two occasions that they met that it got intense and that they both masturbated each other to orgasm but that was as far as it went. I asked him if they ever preformed oral on either one and he said no. I asked him if they ever had sex and he said no. I told him that my wife told me that they had had sex. And he said again that they never had sex and didn't know why she would tell me that. He said he had told me everything and told me the truth about everything. He said the two meetings were they felt each other off is as far as it ever went. I lied to him and told him I seen a text from him to her with him telling her that he loved her. I said you two told each other that you loved each other and he said they did.
So after having a few words with him I went home to confront my wife who had the night before had swore on the Bible, her Dad's and our Daughter's name that as far as they ever went was him inappropriately giving her a pop kiss on the lips.
I told her I had just finished talking to him and that he told me everything. First she denied any thing else had happened. I told her that he told me they had met and made out on multiple occasions. First she denied it then after heavy arguing she admitted it. I said is that a far as you two ever went and she said that was it. I told her that was not what he told me and told her that he said they masturbated each other on several occasions. First she denied it then after threatening divorce she admitted to doing that. I asked her how many times I told her that he told me they had done that multiple times. She said two times. I asked her if that was as far as they ever went and she said that was it. I lied to her and said he told me that they had oral sex and told her that he told me that they had had sex multiple times. She denied that either one ever happened and said she didn't know why he would tell me that. I asked her if they had ever told each other they they loved each other and she said that they never did that. I told her that he told me that they did tell each other that they loved each other, which he actually did tell me this, and she still denied ever telling him that she loved him. She again swore and said that was it. She still to this day says that is all that happened.
So she only admitted to the things that I had proof of. But how did they have the same answers as to how far the affair went? She didn't know that I was going to talk to him and he didn't know what she had told me. So I am seeing it as possible that they were both telling me the truth although she never admitted that she told him that she loved him.
Now here is the battle I fight.
My gut and senses are telling me that they are both lied to me and that they had sex multiple times. I can not make myself believe that two adults are going to plan a meeting up in a quiet location start making out and get so hot on each other to the point they have their pants down and they are feeling each other off to climax that they are not just going to go ahead and have hot sex. I don't see how it would be possible to skip the sex if you are in such a hot and intense moment. But how did there stories match even after me lieing to both of them and telling them that the other said they had sex. Why has her story not changed in 14 years.

Consider that you’ve defined yourself as your wife’s husband. It is Who You Are. The victim in an endless spiral, but at least you do have an identity.

Who would you be without her? She defines you. You’d lose your very identity if you left her. You’d lose your victimhood, that you are definitely clinging to. You’ve written some extraordinarily deep investigations into her behavior, but frankly NONE of those details matter from the perspective of what you should do. They only matter if they are defining you. Defining you.

your wife cheated on you; are you going to divorce?
will you stay?

Instead of answering your questions, you prefer to distract yourself with unnecessary topics.

In order to get away from the truth, you make matters incomprehensible, and you go back to the beginning again.

stop thinking about divorce or your wife; Book yourself a place in a center where you can receive inpatient treatment, you need it right now.

Please try to improve your own mental health, not your marriage, during the treatment process.

If I were you I would start counseling. You have symptoms of co-dependency. Therapy will help you sort through the emotions as to why you think you still love your WW.

She is a cheater who cheated on you. She lied. Her AP lied as well because he is a lying cheater. You are tormenting yourself over a cheater who is not good to you and is not reciprocating affection. That's toxic!

My ex, cheated on me, and all our friends knew it. Thankfully I was only in love and not co-dependent. When I found out I was emediately OUT.

There are about 4 billion women on earth. You have options!

Agree with HouseOfPane. You are your own jailer. I mean this in the kindest way: this is all on you at this point. You can change that, but you need to get past your massive codependency. When are you starting IC?

The Franke family is in the news because the wife and her best friend abused children. The husband was gaslit to the point that he allowed the two women and a therapist to think he was awful and made him leave. He did not see his children for a year. Now they are in the foster care system. When someone has this much emotional/mental control over another it is always a disaster. This father is overwhelmed and distraught. How did it all go wrong. It is because he stopped believing in himself and his own common sense.

You have agreed to turn a blind eye to your wife’s behaviors trying to save a marriage that should be over and done with. Please stop thinking that you can fix things. You cannot change another person. You have to look after yourself. Mr Franke evidently never said NO. It is time you did.

My Wife and I went to counseling.

I feel like I wasted several thousand dollars. It was a total waste of time and money in my opinion. The therapist kept trying to make me the bad person and told me I should not call my wife a liar but it wasn't nice. It was like everything I told her about my wife she would act like I was the bad person for calling her out for her unbelievable excuses.

I really have no faith in counseling.

What is really hard for me to ascertain is if my wife has really lied about all these things.

I don't have proof that the affair I caught her in that they really had sex. To me it seems impossible that they didn't. Two people making out and masturbating each other and not having sex. I would think it would be hard for anyone not to go ahead and have sex at that point. Based on proof that is all the proof I have of them doing. What if they both were telling me the truth? What if that is all they did no matter how hard to believe it is.

What if she cashier at the grocery store was the one who actually gave her the red rose and not some guy? I don't have proof that a guy gave it to her. I just find it hard to believe that she would accept a beautiful rose from the cashier only to throw it in outgoing trash when she got home and when I found it and asked her if anyone had given her any flowers she told me no one had given her any then when I showed her the rose she remembered that the cashier gave it to her. Sounds like a lie but I don't have proof.

I could go through all kinds of unbelievable things that I don't actually have proof of and it being possible that she is being honest no matter how unbelievable what she has told me.

That is what I am hung up on.

What if has really driven me in circles.

How can I make any decisions about what I going to do and risk 28 years of marriage without proof?

W

[This message edited by FallingApartAtTheSeams at 7:30 AM, Sunday, April 14th]