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Good for you that you will not be playing defense on this. I agree that you do not need to make an announcement to your friends as to what is going on, but being honest if it comes to it which it most likely will. Her thoughts that contact really didn’t happen because he didn’t respond is total bullshit. What is even worse is that it seems she was the aggressor in this instance. Not a good sign if she says she is serious about saving the relationship. How did you find out about the contact? She obviously isn’t over him, which leads me to believe what the other posters have said about that there probably was physical contact. Did they have means and opportunity to consummate the physical part of the relationship?

As to the kids, they should probably be told in a general way that their mom had a inappropriate relationship with the other WS and so while they can still remain friends with the other kids, that communication with the other family will be limited to you and the other BS to set up any contact with the other family. Under no circumstances should you have to tolerate having anything to do with the AP. The fact your WS doesn’t seem to get this is troubling. It sounds like the other AP is with the program not replying to your Wife.

I know this is embarrassing. I was embarrassed also when things came out, but was also amazed at the understanding of friends who I thought would look down on me, but instead were by my side. Your WS needs to know the issue isn’t about people finding out, but rather that she put your family into this shitshow to begin with. I would also recommend you telling your wife you are going to do a deep dive on this. Checking the phone and credit card bills, as well as doing a forensic search of her phone to retrieve all the text messages. You should give her the opportunity to be honest, but assure her you aren’t going to rest until you discover the truth. It somehow her phone is swept you will have your answer.

I’m glad you are standing up for yourself. The bowling will be interesting. Have you seen the AP since this all went down? Do you think he is also going try to rugsweep this?

[This message edited by cartpa at 11:45 PM, Thursday, December 8th]

Hi BDA,

May I applaud your excellent response to your wife's actions in communicating with her AP. And like others I also encourage you to maintain the 180.

Your wife's attitude and conduct does disturb me. I can understand the comments about her "fog", which would indicate a deep emotional connection to her AP.

But is there another factor that concerns me. The fact that she is known for not apologising. Is this an appropriate time to gain further information by having a really good look at her and to ask other people about her attitudes and behaviour (we can all wear rose tinted glasses)?
Is she truly a safe person or does she have underlying issues that make her and your marriage a little toxic?

Perhaps it's also time to gather further information by approaching a lawyer to find out the legal situation and to avoid any legal dangers such as leaving the house (strongly not recommended). This step doesn't commit you to divorce, but it can help you to gain further information and help you feel that you are taking action in dealing with this situation.
Perhaps a carefully placed VAR in her car or where she might talk with a confidant at home is also a way to discover what she truly thinks and feels.

Regarding your children, they will soon guess, and possibly even imagine the worst. They could also experience devastating mind-movies. Sometimes it is better to control the narrative by communicating to them in an age appropriate way.
This can assure them that they can trust you because you won't keep the secrets and will keep them informed.

I respect the way you are handling this situation. You are moving out of infidelity.
I found it helpful to read other threads, and to learn from the insights of others.

Please keep seeking advice and feel free to vent.
And as is often said, take what is helpful and leave the rest, we are here to help you.
Regards, FAWH.

Sir, just wanted to extend my commiserations to you on facing this gigantic mess of a betrayal at the hands of your Wayward Wife and the POSOM.

Listen, youve received excellent input from veteran posters. You will need to be strong and stalwart in your resolve to assure that you and your chidren exit her infidelity. From your description, she is a thousand miles from remorse.

The two things Id recommend is that you read, "No More Mr. Nice Guy," by Robert Glover and internalize it. The second is to read about the 180 (https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/understanding-the-180/) and enact it for your own well being.

All the best as you work through this.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 12:48 AM, Friday, December 9th]

That being said, this may have resulted in a divorce while my daughter was still living at home, which would have been a whole lot more difficult. Or even earlier, when the kids were both a lot younger, which would have been even harder.

Respectfully, that is speculation. I happen to disagree with you. I've observed a lot of divorced families. Divorce is VERY hard on young adults in college. It is a period of anxiety and stress for these young people. If, in addition to the stresses of college, they are suddenly informed that their home (often far away) is disintegrating and that, essentially, they no longer have a home to return to, at least not as they remember it, this can derail an entire college career.

My observation is that, from the perspective of children, by far the best time to divorce is when they are old enough that they are no longer toddlers -- when they are fully bonded with each parent -- but before they enter into the existential angst of young adulthood.

I think this is an excellent comment Butforthegrace. We see so often "I’m waiting until the kids are off at college" as a rational to stay in an unhealthy relationship.

Based on my experience (not directly, but through friends and coworkers), the first and second years of college is quite an adjustment for young adults. Many felt they (the kids) were the reason their parents stuck it out and feel terrible about it and take blame when they absolutely shouldn’t). Also, your comment about losing the "home" is big for some. They are off on their own but know there is always "home" and two loving parents to come home to. When divorce happens, their stability and comfort are destroyed, even if it isn’t completely true. They still have two loving parents, just not the same way they are used to.

Your comment is bang on.

Count me in with the others at your wife's audacity to break contact like it was nothing. She was definitely testing the waters of what she could get away with while at the same time attempting to gaslight you into believing their relationship is innocent. Your wife has overestimated her own cleverness while underestimating your intelligence and fortitude. Bravo for handling that situation like a champ!

Now as for whether or not to disclose the affair to others, it's not your burden to keep your wife and OM's secrets. They didn't ask your permission to have an affair; why do you owe them a heads up about whether to tell other people about it?

One good reason not to tell your wife in advance that you plan to tell the truth to people about why you're not socializing with OM is that she might preempt you with a smear campaign among your mutual friends and her family members about what an abusive, controlling, and crazy husband you are. She might even be doing that right now. My ex was bandmouthing me to behind my back during his affairs; consequently, none of our mutual friends took me seriously or offered any support when Dday happened and I finally had the courage to open up about how badly he was treating me. The only friends I kept were the ones I had before the marriage.

Another important thing to consider is that a secret is rarely ever a secret. In fact, you might be shocked at how many people already know. Your wife and OM might have friends or family members in whom they confide or with whom they conspire to cover their tracks. In my case, all my ex's coworkers (who knew me well) knew about his affair with OW #1, and my sister-in-law was the one who actually reconnected him with OW #2, his ex-girlfriend.

I'm willing to bet that before OBS mustered the guts to come to you with evidence of the affair, she mulled over what to do and asked at least 1 person with whom she's close for advice. Also, people in your friend group might've noticed your wife and OM flirting, grab-assing when they thought no one was looking, or canoodling with each other in a parking lot, etc. Few people want to be the bearer of bad news.

Worst case scenario, your kids or OM & OBS's kids might already know or suspect something, but they were threatened or bribed into silence... or just too scared to say anything. It's sadly common for a kid to find messages, video, or photos on a parents device, overhear a phone call, or see the AP coming in and out of the house when the BS isn't there. Your wife and OM might've even used playdates or your kids' shared events as cover to get together.

As far as concrete advice goes, I think you should:
(1) Tell at least 1 or 2 people that are very close to you and you completely trust about the affair. You can't get through this alone. You need to lean on someone for support while you navigate this mess.
(2) As I said before, I don't think you should lie if people ask you directly why you're avoiding OM... but I don't think you should volunteer the info or put your wife and OM "on blast," either. The first reason is that your suffering and marital struggles are not be fodder for the prurient interest of others. The second reason is that you don't want to fuel into any lies your wife might be spreading about you. Third, if you do end up pursuing divorce, you don't want come off as needlessly vindictive to a court. Many a BS has been burned by unloading their dirty laundry on Facebook!
(3) Talk to OBS and ask how she wants to handle the kids. It's possible that you or she might not want to allow your kids to socialize outside of school or shared events because of the emotional distress it might cause or because it provides an avenue for your spouses to maintain contact.
(4) Once you and OBS have agreed to a new "status quo," tell your kids in an age-appropriate way what happened and what to expect going forward; for example, your kids and OM's kids can still play on the same soccer team, but they can't visit each other's houses anymore. Try to anticipate in advance any questions they might have and answer them to the best of your ability. Tell your wife that she can either participate in the discussion or she can leave it to you... but not telling the kids is not an option.

Good luck, OP. We're here for you.

Great work so far handling yourself.

I think people will know something happened but my personal experience is I really didn't want people to know. My situation was different but I just felt like people knowing would create more pressure and discomfort for me rather than less. Ymmv.

[This message edited by Trdd at 11:52 AM, Friday, December 9th]

You are doing great, sounds like you have clarity.

On the kids... look, you are not going to get perfect. At most, you will get not-a-disaster, but you are definitely not going to be able to protect them 100% from this. I know that is really hard to accept as a parent. But your wife decided this for your kids, when she had an affair with the father of their best friends. You can't FIX that for them. Things will never be the same again. Of course they can pursue their friendships, but it will be in a more usual way, just between the kids, not involving the parents. Your only involvement is in the logistics of that.

Make it very clear to the other couple involved that they are not part of the equation with your kids anymore, and your involvement with their kids will be minimal as well. That might be painful, it sounds like you were close. But it truly is the only way forward, as much as it sucks.

My ExWW didn't have sex either although her 3 week affair included some roaming hands. 99.9% sure the panties never came down. Your wife is also claiming no Sex and that may be true.

She's my Ex because during those 3 weeks she made hundreds of decisions that broke my trust in her. Appears your wife has been carrying on with the POSOM for several years so she's made thousands of those decisions. More than likely including decisions to use their children to arrange times together.

It's your life, you have to make the decision on what you can forgive and what you can't.

Strength to you and your children. Stay strong for them and yourself.

Really sorry you find yourself here.

Here’s how you protect your kids: with the age appropriate, honest truth. You protect them by protecting and gunning for your own happiness and peace. A happy father = a happy child. You protect them by showing them what they deserve in a future romantic relationship - loyalty and faithfulness. You protect them by showing them they have the choice to walk away from someone who doesn’t treat them the way they deserve or doesn’t take accountability for their mistakes.

I agree with the blow up suggestion. It’s a way of processing your own shame (if you have any)
And breaking the fantasy of the A for them.

I wish you luck in the journey ahead.

Giving your kids the age appropriate honest truth will also build their trust in you because they sure as hell can’t trust her. It helps with open communication lines, for them to know they can trust you to come with you for any questions or concerns. I don’t know how old your kids are but most are incredibly perceptive and can smell a lie or a dodge from a mile away.

My kid is 4. No one has never breathed a word of A to her. Want to hear some of her recent questions?

"Superheroes catch bad guys. Are they gonna catch Daddy?"

"Did Daddy hurt Mommy?"

"Where does it hurt, Mommy? Did Daddy say sorry to you?"

"Did Daddy tell lies?" (After teaching her the concept of honesty)

Kids know. Or will know. And if they don’t, they will be able to guess.

I will absolutely never bad mouth her to anyone. The truth told in tactful manner will be enough. She is the mother of my children and I do care about her even though she has destroyed our family. Spent almost 17 year with her now and there were more good than bad times. Enough is enough though and it is time I take my life back.

I felt the same way, but it took me years, too many years, to take my life back.

[This message edited by WishidleftHer at 4:52 AM, Sunday, December 11th]

You have the right attitude, you run this now. No you don’t have to give her a heads up, she made a life changing decision, she gets to live with it. Remember she did not give you a heads up that she was in love with her kids Dad.

She is in a fog, she thinks she is wonderful because AP makes her feel that way. You are the mean bad person. When she accuses you of harming the family or relationships with friends, reject that shit!!! Remind her who blow the life up. You run this now, she is outside looking in.

I feel so sorry for you. This affair is turning everyone life upside down. Your WW doesn’t have any sense of right. Having an affair is one thing but with friends and kids interaction , Just a no, no.
Your or AP family must move . They’re no other way …. AP has responsibility too, AP family must be hurting also. But, But if you stay together there always will be interaction between WW and AP. They will always run into each other. Once their sex you can’t take that back. Once lovers you can’t go back to friends.
So they’re no way out of it. Someone must move far enough to not be involved with each other. New school for kids, new sport clubs ect This isn’t your fault. You are not doing this, that was up to WW.

Thanks again for everyone's thoughts and advice. It has been a roller coaster with good days and bad but as time goes on I'm able to deal with my feelings better.

Bowling was pretty uneventful. No one specifically called anything out but I'm guessing there were a few eyebrows raised and comments made between couples. I did share with a couple from our neighborhood friend group that is mutual friends with us and the APs family what happened. They were totally supportive of me. They were surprised my wife and the AP would actually do what they did but were also at the same time not surprised either. I let my wife know the next morning that I shared this with them and I think it made this a little bit more real for her. We talked for a few hours the next day and she did start saying it was an emotional affair but kept coming back to the idea that it was me that forced them to take their friendship underground, etc, etc. It is total crap and I told her that she should have respected my issue with their friendship and dealt with it the multiple times I brought it up through the years. She said she shouldn't be told who to be friends with. Again total crap and her deflecting it on me.

Her ultimate concern is that the kids have more of a chance finding out now that I told our friends. I did tell the couple to keep it under wraps for now as I don't think I have the emotional juices to tell the kids quite yet and be there to support the fall out. I'll get there but need a bit more time. I actually felt bad/guilty about telling the other couple and I know that I should not have. Part of that is because my wife laid it on thick of how the kids won't respect her anymore and I will ruin her relationship with the kids. I keep telling her that I didn't do this she did. She just gets pissed off at me and says yeah I know you keep throwing that in my face. I'm not but when she tells me she cant never have contact again or I shouldn't tell anyone or anything like that I say it to reinforce my position. I realize though it probably a waste of breath since she is still in love with this guy. I an at peace with telling them and don't regret my decision now but it was a rough feeling for a couple days.

I see a therapist for the first time this coming Monday and hopefully that will help give me some additional help to navigate this. I also picked up the book No More Mr. Nice guy and holy crap what a slap in the face that book was. It describes about 90% of my personality and I realized that I need to make some significant changes in how I live my life, how I view myself and how I handle interpersonal relationship going forward.

How long does one give their WW to come out of the fog? It's been almost 4 weeks and she is still there. Just this morning she was upset again about me not being willing to act normal in front of the AP to hide it from the world. I told here this must be very difficult and that I realize she was in love with this man for years and then one day she was told she can never talk to him again. She said she loved him as a friend and that yes that those feelings just don't disappear overnight. I didn't engage after that and she left for work.

How long does one give their WW to come out of the fog? It's been almost 4 weeks and she is still there. Just this morning she was upset again about me not being willing to act normal in front of the AP to hide it from the world. I told here this must be very difficult and that I realize she was in love with this man for years and then one day she was told she can never talk to him again.

Why would you "wait", at all? Your WW is a grown woman who is an independent agent. She can make her own choices. You're turning yourself into a passive-aggressive marriage cop. My friend, that's no way to live.

Tell her this: "WW, you are free to love whomever you wish. Please go to the AP's house and love him like a friend, or like a dog, or however you want to love him. But please know it won't be as my wife. I won't share you with another man, not emotionally and not sexually. So while you bask in your love with the AP, I will be taking steps to end our marriage. I love you and wish you happiness."

I really like Butforthegrace's approach just above.

If you still want to see if she is potentially a candidate to offer R to, I would recommend buying two books to help her out of the fog. Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass and How to Help Your Spouse Heal After Your Affair by Linda Mcdonald. I think she should start with Not Just Friends.

Some people think the WS should be doing this on her own but I think there are a lot of bad resources out there, both internet, books and counselors, that give waywards bad advice. If you think you want to offer R, get her the right resources and then see what she does with them. From what you said, she'll initially resist some of what is in those books but ask her to read them anyway. If she has just half an open mind they will help her see she has her head stuck up her ass when she asks you to just pretend around the AP.

I was the child, in an infidelity situation.

You need to expose them both to everyone possible and the let the chips fall where they may.

Family, friends, work, etc.

If you want any chance to salvage or rebuild your marriage, the only way is to make their behaviors known and force it to end.

So far, as per your writings, neither has suffered much consequences whatsoever.

You can be a doormat and let this postentially destoy your relationship with your childre, by continuing to assist your wife and the AP in covering up their affair.

Cheaters are like cockroaches, their affiars thrives in dark, moist places. Expose them and the affair to the light and watch it dryout and die.

Yes, your wife may walk away, but you will not be a particiant in her choices.

Her ultimate concern is that the kids have more of a chance finding out now that I told our friends. I did tell the couple to keep it under wraps for now as I don't think I have the emotional juices to tell the kids quite yet and be there to support the fall out. I'll get there but need a bit more time.

Just tell them, and let the chips fall where they may, she DID this, these are consequences of her huge betrayal, you don't need more time to drag this on and allow her to bully you into keeping her dirty secret, tell them TODAY. Full exposure with all family and close friends without warning typically kills the "beautiful, exciting and romantic" aspects of an A and replaces them with pure shame and embarrassment, the more she hates the A and AP the faster she can get out of the "fog".

I'm not but when she tells me she cant never have contact again or I shouldn't tell anyone or anything like that I say it to reinforce my position. I realize though it probably a waste of breath since she is still in love with this guy.

Then you have nothing to work with at this point, so file for D and have her served, if full exposure and D papers don't shock her back to reality, then nothing will, if so just let the D run its course and get out of infidelity, did I mention cheaters lie ? yes a lot, so don't forget to get tested for STDs.