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Looking for opinions on a somewhat complicated situation (aren’t they all). I’ll try to keep this concise and to the relevant details to outline the background enough to hopefully paint a clear enough picture of what I need opinions on.

D day was a week ago when I found out my wife was having an affair. I was contacted by the spouse of my wife's AP and she was able to provide me screenshots of AP's phone where they were using a secret app to communicate with each other. Content of their texts made it clear what they were doing. I confronted my wife about it and she admitted to some of what happened but not all of it until I mentioned specific examples that I saw in the texts. She admitted to a lot more after that but still not all of it. AP had also given her a heads up that his wife was going to tell me so they had some time to get their stories straight. She admitted she knew it was wrong but immediately started blaming me and didn’t take any real responsibility for it. Here we are a week later and she’s going on about her business as if nothing happened. She is still saying it was just friends that grew into more and not an affair. She seems to be following a pretty common pattern from what I’ve read on this site. I definitely did the pick me dance last week but have firmly started the 180.

That’s all pretty ‘standard’ stuff if there is such a thing. Where this gets to be more complicated is the relationship our family has with his family is very intertwined. They and us along with another couple hang out all the time, like every weekend. We’ve gone on vacations together, our kids all hang out with each other everyday and are all best of friends. For a few years now I’ve told my wife I didn’t feel comfortable with her relationship with AP. She always said that there was nothing happening and would actually get mad at me for saying that. I even approached AP about it once and he said he’d back off only to tell her what I said to him and she got mad at me for saying something. She told me I was crazy so I backed off because I didn’t want to cause a rift in our relationship. They work in the same profession and he helped her with getting a couple jobs so it made it even more complicated. They then started working out together, going for walks, grabbing coffee and lunch and talking on the phone and texts everyday. This was all behind my back and AP's wife's back. This was an emotional affair for sure and crossed a line that was way past friends a long time ago. About 6 months ago it crossed over even further into sexting and pictures. She swears there was never any physical contact but the last texts I saw he was saying he loved her and you could tell they were on the cusp of physical intimacy happening. She swears they have never touched, but I don’t totally buy it.

I told my wife and his wife told AP that they can not have any contact anymore. I really would prefer my kids did not find out about this or know any of the details at this point but I don’t know how they won’t notice. The kids and anyone else that knows our families will immediately notice that that my wife and her AP are not talking in public anymore (if she actually sticks to it). They will also notice I never talk to him or hang out with him anymore and his wife is not talking to my wife. Our kids play multiple sports together and go to school together which makes it even more complicated. It is truly impossible for me or my wife to 100% avoid being around him or it means we are missing out on our kids' lives. My kids will start asking and wondering why we are not going to their house anymore, why they never come over to our house and why no one is talking except for me and AP's wife. My oldest is in HS who will 100% notice something has significantly changed. I’m at a complete loss as to how to handle this. I really don’t want this to hit my kids or land on them but I also can’t just pretend nothing happened. I’m not going to start something but I can’t bring myself to talk to him or allow an exception for my wife to in public. Am I being unreasonable if I stick strictly to the NC? She thinks we should be ‘normal’ in public around them so other don't notice. These situations will come up weekly for a long time. If I give flexibility am I just delaying the inevitable? Is there any way this doesn't go south if I stay firm on the NC? Do I give flexibility on the NC even though I feel like that is wrong but again I'm trying to think about my kids lives. Any opinions are appreciated on how to navigate this, especially if you have gone through a similar situation.

If your children are adolescents they are able to handle info like this. Don’t keep secrets from kids, they always find out. You just need to keep it simple. You need to tell them that your wife and the AP have had a friendship that has gotten so immeshed that y’all are taking a break until things settle down. They don’t need to know about Sexting they just need to know that this is how you are handling it. If your wife continues to have a relationship with this man then you may have to plan on separating. It sounds like they are having an affair, a full affair, that has involved everything except possible sex and I even have a question about that.
I hate for the kids to have to get involved in it but they are involved in it because of the friendships all around. Be sure and tell your wife you’re going to tell the kids and would she like to be in the room. Be sure to tell APs wife that you are telling your children.

This is a classic example of the adage that when a spouse cheats, he/she betrays his/her entire family.

To the narrow point of your question, there is absolutely no way you will shield your kids from this. Kids are way smarter and more intuitive than parents give them credit for. Plus, the metes and bounds of their universe is small. All of that unused brain power is focused intensely on parents and home life. Given the close intertwining of the families, one kid will hear/see something (such as the AP and his OBW arguing in the deep of night), share it with others, they will go into investigatory mode, and it will be all over. Soon, one of the kids will be saying to the other something like: "Dude, my dad fucked your mom." Or, "My mom sucked your dad's dick. That's so gross."

The overwhelming weight of opinion here is to be honest with kids about what is happening with their family/families. Age-appropriate in terms of conversational detail, but honest. They'll respect you for it.

Given your WW's initial response to being caught, divorce is a very real option in your future. This, among other things, augurs for transparency.

As to "flexible NC", I've never seen that work. Not once. Basically, you and OBW need to set up a schedule where your WW attends sporting events 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9, and AP attends 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10. My kids had parents on their extracurriculars who split events up like that. If people are adult about it, and put the interest of the kids first, it works.

AP had also given her a heads up that his wife was going to tell me so they had some time to get their stories straight.

This is extremely common. Based on your description of them denying that they had PIV intercourse, it's probably what happened here. Strong recommend is no sex until all of you are tested for STD's.

There is no way out of this.

The number one rule is no contact.

Others can tell you how to handle the kids but their friendships are over all stop.

You can never have any connection to their family ever again.

You may need to move. That is how deep this goes.

They cannot look at each other breathe the same air as well as never speak again.

Thai affair will continue if you do not I guarantee you.

There is more you need to deal with but just want to drive home your specific question.

No contact is exactly what it means. No contact ever again for any reason. No exceptions.

It sucks there is collateral damage but that’s your wife fault not yours. You are unfortunately stuck cleaning up the mess.

Yes, you should have that talk with the kids.

Butforthegrace lays it out really very well for you.

And I agree theres more of a chance they did have PIV sex than them not having had it.
You most likely will find out more down the line. And if you want (R), and on that I will reference Butforthegrace's previous post, she's got way more work to do and trying to act "normal" isn't at the top of the list.

At no point should they have ANY contact. That would be a deal breaker, especially after what you've found. her gaslighting you and lying until she couldn't.

You two are not even close to being a decent state right now.

This was what your wife was willing to risk. Now sadly she gets to see the consequences.

Please do not try to pretend this is ok in any way for her. You can still make arrangements for kids play dates between you and the other BS.

NO CONTACT at all. Even if it is uncomfortable for your wife in public.

And, I hate to say this but I would bet my house they've had sex. Multiple places, ways, etc. Adults with access to each other don't keep it at sexting.

You sound from your post willing to stay in the marriage. If this is your plan, please know YOU MUST BE GIVEN THE WHOLE TRUTH. If not, it's called rug sweeping. And it will happen again or continue underground or it will eat away at you because you do KNOW the truth.

I'm very sorry you are here. Please know this is a fine group of folks who will try to help you thru this.

They helped me 11 years ago.
And I wish I had listened to them more. They told me I needed my WH to fully admit his affair. He NEVER did. To this day. But my heart knew. And our marriage struggled on for 10 years more from DDay until he LEFT ME!

Hugs to you.
You will get thru. But you must get the truth to be free.

Your wife is trying to maintain contact "to appear normal" to continue the affair.

Please stick to strict no contact. The social life among the adults will now change. It has to. You and the other betrayed spouse (OBS) will no longer tolerate social interaction.

You stay on opposite sides of the field, bench, etc.

It is sad it has to change but you know if there is even one social event you attend with the AP and family, the cheaters will use that to re-start the affair.

Stand your ground.

Also your wife acting like nothing happened? Nothing is wrong? Blaming you? 🚩🚩🚩🚩

I agree with Cooley. You should inform your kids. They should learn how affair affects people and family. They will know the truth eventually. So don't let them find it out on their own and interpret this whole situation on their own. They might learn wrong lessons here. In some cases, kids lose the respect for their betrayed parent because of their misinterpretation of the way betrayed parent approached this whole situation. You need to come clean and be clear about what your are going to do about it and why you are going to do. There won't be any room for misinterpretation. An early establishment of communication with your children regarding this affair will help you both in long way. They can easily communicate their affair-caused-struggles with you and you can help them with these issues as early as possible before they grow bigger.Communication is better than secrecy in any kind of relations.
Also, have you decided to reconcile? From your post itseems you opted for reconciliation. May be am reading wrong. I hope am wrong. She is miles away from any kind of reconciliation. Strict NC is absolute necessity. Never compromise on that. Also, that 'normal' times she is longing for is dead and she killed it. She needs to realize that future complications that will arise because of her affair will be the new 'normal '. And she must own it. Good luck to you, sir.

She is still saying it was just friends that grew into more and not an affair.

I am sorry OP....she is not remorseful and is to concerned about how this reflects on her. NC is correct and as much as you do not want to hurt the kids, they need to know.

Your wife betrayed you is the most disrespectful way - and with a family friend. They have been laughing behind you and the OM's wife back for a long time.

I wish you luck, but, are you willing to wake up everyday with this woman knowing that she is not remorseful or cares about your feelings?

Go live a better life - he said he loves her, so he can have her!

Your story is similar to mine. Friendly couple, boundaries crossed. I'm divorcing and still dealing with the fallout 1.5 years later.

I have also asked similar question to yours, you can check from my profile, hoping you find some answers. There is no way you can hide this from kids, you cannot get out of lies and infidelity by adding more lies. Sorry you have to deal with this, double betrayal is awful.

PS. you are writing in a very matter-of-fact way about facts and actions. You seem to be in a problem-solving mode. The sad reality is, you can't fix this. No matter how this turns out, it's going to take years, and your life will be very different. Give yourself a pause, maybe take a break for a week just to get in touch with what's inside of you.

[This message edited by ZDZD at 9:46 PM, Wednesday, December 7th]

Sorry you have a need to find yourself here. A messy situation for sure, but not that unusual really. Accept no blame for her cheating. It is very common for the cheater to try to blameshift onto the BS. Nothing you did or didn’t do in your M caused her to cheat. She cheated because she wanted to do it. Period. You can’t force someone to violate their own morals. She alone is responsible for her cheating. Always value yourself. Do not do the pick me dance. It never works. You cannot nice her back or control her actions.

Take care of you. She is unremorseful and still in contact with the AP, so her A is still ongoing. She is defensive and wants to be shielded from embarrassing consequences caused by her infidelity. She can’t be shielded in this situation. Your families are too intertwined. Be there for your children. Be honest with them in an age appropriate way. No contact with her AP is crucial. Implement the 180. Get tested for STDs.

In the end, if your WW and her AP want to destroy two families to be together, you can’t stop them, but you can help your children navigate. Be vigilant and prepared. Good luck.

I really appreciate the candid responses from everyone. Every sign points that she is never going to want to fully commit to reconciling even if she says she does at some point. I told her after I found out that I wasn't making any life changing decisions until after the holidays and that I would be willing to consider working on it if she committed to changing. I know it has only been a week but I'd think something would changed or she'd say something.
So far nothing which is not reassuring. She may still be in the fog but I've know this woman for 15 years and she's never once admitted to and fully owned being wrong and likely isn't going to for this. I know everything says to give it time and I plan to give it a few more weeks but every bone in my body says it's time to go. I'm putting on the happy face, not engaging and being my normal happy self for now.

As for the kids, I think you all have good advice. My wife is adamantly against it but at some point I may have to man up and tell her tough shit, she lost her rights to tell me what to do. Especially if I really am going the D route.

Based on your wife’s attitude, I think you can safely assume that the affair isn’t going to stop; they will probably cool off for a short period of time before taking the affair underground.

The best way to end this affair is for you to expose it. Tell your kids what happened in an age-appropriate way. If mutual friends ask why you aren’t socializing as couples anymore, tell them the truth. Let OBS know that this is the approach you’re going to take. Hopefully, she will have the good sense to do the same.

This will be very humiliating for you and OBS. As I’m sure you expect, wife and OM are going to be enraged. Your wife might even threaten or go forward with filing for divorce… if she goes down that path, then you could be assured that you were going to be getting divorced at some point anyway.

But as we often say around here, you have to be willing to lose the marriage in order to save it. Your wife created this situation and has to face the consequences for it. Unfortunately, that means your kids will be impacted… but they would be impacted anyway if the affair was allowed to continue or if you end up divorced.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 11:37 PM, Wednesday, December 7th]

I do agree theres a good chance it hasnt stopped. They'll just work harder to hide it. Once the word "love" gets into the mix its pretty far along,and theres such a little chance it wasnt PIV at that point. Her attitude seems like the frosting on that cake.
And yes, while it may seem horrible on the surface to expose the affair, it is best to do that. If she freaks, well, you have all the answers you need right there.
You're doing well. Stay strong.

You’re still in D-Day shock mode and the fact you’re in a dead-marriage walking hasn’t fully sunk in. You and your WW are scrambling around trying to maintain the best semblance of normalcy while your house is burning down around you. Totally understandable.

The kids are an important concern, but you’re not going to protect them in any way with any forms of rug sweeping or minimizing. Your WW’s secrets are not yours to keep. As BFTG advised, adolescent kids are VERY intuitive. They’re probably already way ahead of you on this. If you really, REALLY want to protect them, provide for the best outcome possible FOR YOU and for them-respectively, provide the best authentic loving nurturing environment for them and, most importantly,

show them how a strong Father handles his shit properly in a crisis. Get your ducks in a row and your priorities straight. Don’t make concessions at the expense of your dignity, your agency. Don’t tolerate disrespect. Don’t tolerate anything less than a genuine authentic, wholistic reconciliation from a truly remorseful spouse. Anything less than that, and you’ll doom yourself and the kids to a hellish limbo state that is the antithesis of a loving authentic nurturing environment.

Currently, CURRENTLY your WW has set you squarely on a course towards divorce. She is not remorseful and is not R material. The best you can do with that is, as you seem to already know, The 180. Good job on that. Also, exposing the A has proven useful in snapping cheaters back into reality. And, if that doesn’t seem to be working, serve up divorce papers. That may sound extreme, but if that doesn’t provide a nice cold slap in the face of reality and a stunning example of your resolve, nothing else will. By design, the divorce process progresses slowly and by degrees providing many opportunities for your WW to get her shit together and change the course of events SHE has set you all upon.

You sound like a very level headed pragmatic guy who can think clearly under fire. I feel good about your prospects whatever happens (D vs R).

Take Care.

Your friend group will change. It’s the nature of catastrophic events like this. It will not stay under the rug to protect her reputation or for the kids. An argument will be overheard or a look caught. People are intuitive.

Don’t buy into that fantasy or be guilted into pretending she didn’t wreck the relationships. You can be civil adults when required, but the friendship/vacations/ BBQs dynamic is long gone. You will all find your new normal at the sporting events. Face what is and if the kids can move into a new phase for themselves, where they hang out together at one house or the other without adults socializing too. It will be different but that happens to some extent naturally as the kids get older.

If the kids were her priority, she would never have put you all in this situation. But she did. Cause she wanted to. And her actions, not your choice to face it authentically brought these consequences. You can waste a whole lot of time trying to ‘act’ your way out of it or adjust your perspective and move through it.

Your partner has an entitled and somewhat concerning personality. She doesn’t admit wrong or face consequences well so far in your history according to you. Not good boding for how any reconciliation will progress. She is going to balk at not getting her way.

So make some decisions on how you plan to move forward. Don’t try to nice her back or buy into narratives that require you to lie for her. You don’t have to put your business in the street, you can tell the truth without the drama.

Read up on the 180. Be prepared for more discoveries and lying. And take care of yourself this is hard.

You may decide you want to D regardless of what she says or does.

If you want to consider R, realize that a lot of cheating spouses don't immediately start telling the truth and desire to right the ship. The dopamine rush from the A takes a while to shake loose for many people. Exposure and clear consequences helps shake that off for most.

BDA,

Sorry it's really ugly when spouses entangle kids in the affairs.

Sometimes people just have to move to escape the horror.

As for the kids, I think you all have good advice. My wife is adamantly against it but at some point I may have to man up and tell her tough shit, she lost her rights to tell me what to do. Especially if I really am going the D route.

THIS ^^^. You really need to get your composure back together again and stand your ground.

Your wife is not remorseful and goes the lenght of being worried about what she will look like to others instead of worrying about the large disrespect she inflicted upon YOU. You are no inanimate object. You are a human being with feelings. I'm assuming you never betrayed your WW and, therefore, you deserve to be treated the exact same way. The pay back? She went fooling around with some dickehead on your back. It doesn't even matter if it is an EA or a PA in my opinion. The lack of boundaries is there. The willingness to act upon it also and the disrespect and lack of care and love for you very present - judging by her atitudes.

It is NOT on you. It never was. It is on her. It always was. It were HER decisions.

Get angry and in a civilized but VERY assertive way tell her you are not going to be disrespected by her EVER again. Explain to your kids what is happening and don't be afraid to expose. Your WW is an adult. She took the decision to embrace cheating. So, it is only normal she has to be responsible for her acts and assume the consequences for her actions. It is all pretty simple really - in a sordid, twisted way. She gets to watch first hand what she did to the family and what she will endure after being caught.

Your kids will understand. Breaking away from the other family (a MUST) is possible and the only option. You will be ok. They will be ok. That is the way life goes sometimes. Be straight to the point, don't engage in unracional discussions or the likes - straight to the point - say what you must - leave. Just like that. Don't get caught up in meaningless discussions and trickle truth. Wasted time of your life I guarantee you.

As many say: one must be willing to loose the marriage to save the marriage. That is the EASIEST WAY for the WWs to take their heads out of their asses. And the most straight forward one. Not much drama. Straight to the point. While YOU are taking care of YOU. You are acting on YOURSELF and protecting your own interests for a change. And not letting YOURSELF continue to be mistreated like that.

One way or another I guarantee you, your life will go on. And you and your kids will be fine. What is not meant to be is not meant to be. If it comes to that at least you get to know it first hand. On YOUR terms. And don't end up living a lie - being mistreated on your back.

All the best. Stay STRONG and STAND YOUR GROUND. And remember: It can't rain all the time.

Good times will come.

[This message edited by justanotherperson at 6:00 AM, Thursday, December 8th]

She thinks that the normal dynamic between the two of you can't change (her calling the shots) so she has yet to feel any effects of her infidelity, and as a result shows no regret (not even gonna mention remorse).

Depending on how much of a narcissist she is, she may never show any emotion regarding this other than anger at you for trying to hold her accountable.