SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi. So, my husband cheats every time we get into an argument pretty much or any time he is under a lot of stress. He checks all of the boxes of a serial cheater. We are in therapy now, and my therapist said that she believes that he could change and only time will tell. She supports me giving him one more chance. We are both 28, and the only thing tying us together is the house we just signed for. He swears to me every day that he is never going to cheat on me anymore, and we have Life360, the app that allows us to tell where each other are. Because he has cheated so much, I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

He swears this time is different and that he's crazy about me, and he's doing things he's never done before like changing his phone number, answering any questions I have without getting angry, doing Life360, and deleting all apps that he was flirting with others on. I feel like the world's biggest idiot because I am considering giving him one more chance. If he does it again or things start to not add up again, I am ready to leave. I am no longer in love with him. I love and care about him, but he's hurt me so much that I don't know anymore about us. He said to give him a chance to prove to me that he has changed. He wants me to give him a chance before filing for a divorce. He tells me.. don't you see (after a month) all that I've been doing? The answer is no. I don't trust him so... I mean.. Even while having Life360, I think maybe he's driving women around getting off that way to throw me off of his trail (I don't know that he's actually doing this, but this is one of the thoughts that cross my mind). I think he's been immature, and I feel so stupid, yet I want to be honest on this post. I wonder if he's matured and realized that I will actually leave him and what if he changes this time for real?

Has anyone waited to see if a habitual cheater would change and seen a change? Also, does anyone have any tips on what to watch out for? I know that I should be watching his actions to see if he's changed. What am I looking for exactly? I have been denying allowing him to take me out. I love dating but now.. I would rather just stay home and do things that I want to do instead of waste time doing whatever he thinks might bring us closer. I am going to continue doing one on one therapy, because I have now realized that I do not value myself like I should, which is really sad to me. I have accomplished so much, and I feel like I am not valuing myself because I let this man (we've been married 4 years and together for 5 years) disrespect me and the relationship. I don't know how to value myself anymore other than focus more on what makes me happy and keep going to therapy. I have lost myself, and I'm trying to pick myself back up.

This is hard, and him actually having sex with other people is a curve ball to me. I knew that for years, at least once per year, he would get upset and flirt with someone else online, but at the end of 2022, he had sex with three different women. I am a good woman and a good wife, and although my mom keeps saying to stop asking why... I keep wondering why do this to me? What's the point? Looking for words of wisdom. I read all responses. Thank you so much for taking the time to read this.

[This message edited by uallen at 10:22 PM, Sunday, January 15th]

You received excellent advice in your first post. Switching forums won't change the advice.

What work is HE doing on himself to become a safe partner?

A lot of his "changes' center around his phone. Life 360 means nothing. He can leave his phone wherever, and go off with another woman. Also, cheaters love that app. Because then they can see where their BS is, so they know they won't be caught where they are,with another woman.

What he's doing isn't unusual. A lot of serial cheaters suddenly love their BS soooo much,once they see their BS is about to walk away. He's not concerned about you. It's all about what he wants.

Changing his number means nothing. Very often,they simply get a burner phone.

You're not in love with him. You're only staying because of what he wants. Him..the man who has been abusing you your entire relationship. Who cares what he wants?

Personally, I think getting out of this toxic marriage is the healthiest thing you could do. Reconciliation takes years. And the WS has a crap ton of work they have to do on themselves. This man acts like he gets a cookie because he's been a good boy for a month.

Trust is never fully restored. Even if he were a model WS, you will always wonder.

Run..you will eventually find a man who will cherish you from day one.

Save yourself.

[This message edited by HellFire at 10:48 PM, Sunday, January 15th]

Thank you @HellFire. We have been going to couples therapy, but I feel that I need to start back up with individual therapy, because I fear something is wrong with me. Everyone online and in my waking life have been saying the same thing, run. Then, I look at him and how sorry he looks and I wonder has he really changed.. I have been praying about it, too. My mom says the same thing, similar to how the answer won't change for posting on another forum. My mom said that everyone is saying the same thing, and what am I going to do about it. It's just that.. there's so many steps. I have to get out of the house. I have to get it off of my credit. I have to get a lawyer because I think he is going to fight me on that and he has already said he won't just give me a divorce, "not until he's tried to win me back".

See. That right there proves this is about him. Not you. He's abused you terribly. If he had truly turned over a new leaf,he would see that,and he would want you to do what's best for you. If you wanted a divorce, he would gracefully let you go.

I read in your other thread that he said he was telling one of the other women what she wanted to hear. That tells you who he is. He's doing the same to you. He's telling you what you want to hear,to get what he wants. He likes the security of a woman a home,but is too immature to be faithful.

You are the same age as my oldest daughter. She recently left a bad marriage. She was ashamed that it didn't work out. I told her,the only thing worse than being in a bad marriage,is being in a bad marriage for one more day. You have your entire life ahead of you. Don't think you have to stay,simply because he wants a chance. He's had many. Too many.

[This message edited by HellFire at 11:27 PM, Sunday, January 15th]

You're right, @Hellfire. I am on another site too, asking advice, and they are dog walking me in the comments, urging me to leave and there are over 30 responses. I can't ignore it. I am looking up contested divorces now in my area. I am not in love with him anymore, and I know deep down that I would not choose him even as a boyfriend if I could do it all over again. I just needed that push to file. Thank you for everything, and I am sorry to hear about your daughter but happy she's out of it. Falling in love with someone who lets you down is tough.

What reason does he have to feel sorry and change? He knows you aren’t willing to leave him.

I’m sure that every chance you’ve given him has been "one last chance." Why should another "one last chance" make any difference at this point?

Change occurs when the pain of same exceeds the pain of change.

Right now, your WH has no incentive to even ask himself why he would choose infidelity to fill whatever tragically unhealthy needs he has. He has no incentive to own and fix his shit. He believes, it seems, he can manipulate you into believing the untruths he has accepted about himself, without even considering that you might question his motives, and most certainly his judgment. It's sooo much easier to appease, love-bomb, and go through the motions than it is to admit to ourselves we're seriously screwed up puppies.

At his age, I'd say the chances he's capable of becoming a healthier version of himself are slim.

At your age, no kids, I'd walk. You're still very young.

It’s so unfair that you’re in this situation, and You’re right; the steps to divorce are daunting, especially if he fights you. But the very fact that you’re afraid of how he’ll respond if you divorce him after he cheated on you so many times is another indication of what horrible character he has. You don’t really need to keep asking why—the answer is that he is a broken, selfish person.

He is not someone who has the maturity or sense of equality and partnership to make a marriage work. You’re 28 and you don’t have kids. RUN.

Make a list of what all you need to do to get out of the relationship, and just do one thing at a time. Hugs.

See my post in your Just Found Out thread.

I am no longer in love with him. I love and care about him, but he's hurt me so much that I don't know anymore about us. He said to give him a chance to prove to me that he has changed....he has already said he won't just give me a divorce, "not until he's tried to win me back".

He made the choices he wanted to make. He had you and whatever woman he wanted to use as a coping mechanism on the side. He has been doing whatever he wants and not worrying about how it would impact you.

Cheating is abusive behavior.

He doesn't get to continue to call the shots now. He won't "give" you a divorce??
He doesn't get to call the shots.

Take some time and distance away from him. Decide what you want and do that.

You deserve safety and joy...and so far this relationship isn't giving you much of that.

uallen,

If I could 28 year old self back then to run and hide then I would do exactly that. I was 29 around the time I found out. I didnt have children or a house but we did make a home. I stayed but the path to reconciliation has been the hardest thing ever. I always told myself that cheating was a deal breaker for me. I stayed because firstly it happened the only time and secondly I loved him with all my heart. We met when I was 20. We struggled to have children for nearly a decade. No excuse for cheating but it did happen. Till this they I question why? why me? How could he? etc But it gets me no where. All I know he was the broken one at that point and he used cheating as a way to escape. I was broken too but i didnt cheat. I believe in fidelity. He clearly didnt. We now have children and if he did this to me again I know that firstly all hell will break loose. Secondly I was throw him out on the streets with nothing but the clothes he is wearing. Im not letting myself go through that toture ever again. More than valuing myself I need some dignity. I will not be made a fool again.

So the point im making is yes you may have a house with him but that shouldnt be the reason you stay married to a cheater. You should count your blessings that you dont have any children with him. If you did have children then it would be 100 times harder im sure. Also why would you be with someone youre no longer in love with. It will be misreble to live like that. Yes ofcourse you care about him but that doesnt mean you have to stay married to him for the rest of your life. I also wanted to add that what I have read about serial cheaters is that they never change. Yes youre H is a serial cheater. Endless flirting and meetups for sex. You probably dont know the full truth.

Do yourself a big favour and get away from him. He is destroying you slowly. It will happen again. Dont be fulled by these smart apps that keep a track of his whereabouts. If he wanted to cheat again he would do it and no smart app will stop him.

Im gona be honest and say that I wish I had taken the advice I recieved when I was your age. The pain doesnt truly go away. The pain of reconciliation is not worth it. Yes I love the life we have now. To get here was the hardest path ive gone through. I know i will be always thinking about the betrayal. There will always be triggers. I will always have doubts. I will never be able to trust him blindly like i once did. I only live for my children now.

You are loving and faithful and loyal, not dumb. You believed somebody who was supposed to have your back. He was a lying, manipulative jerk.

Dr. Ramani has some YouTube videos on narcissistic personality disorder. I'm not saying your WH is a narc. Some of her discussions on mirroring and trauma bonding may help you understand what you're experiencing.

Don't feel like an idiot. You'll know when you're done.

It took me a year to work through the pain, and another couple to realize XWH wasn't really doing the work to change. We were in MC at this time, and at 18 months he confessed to basically sexually assaulting somebody (my boundary was any inappropriate sexual contact would be automatic D) while in an MC session and I ended our 30+ year M.

Oh, uallen, my heart goes out to you. I've been there, so afraid of the crap choices laid out before you. I know, I KNOW how hard it is when you find yourself in the middle of a shit sandwich, and can't be confident in any of the ways out that you have right now. I am so very sorry that you find yourself in this situation.

Yes it's understandable that you feel lost right now. It's perfectly OK to feel that way. Nobody's judging you for taking a hot minute to figure out what to do.

I did have a bunch of stuff in here about mistakes I've made, begging you to avoid them, and you've already gotten suggestions on the things you should do, which are correct, but I took it out because I finally got to my point in the last few paragraphs, so here they are.

I'm 56. Don't be as late as I am in life to finally get your feet under you. Do the hard work on yourself now. Take the time NOW to know your true self, learn to trust in yourself, know that YOU ARE ENOUGH to make you happy, all on your own, because YOU ARE.

It is possible to stop this torture and make a fresh start. 28 is not too late to take the hit (financially, the "where I am in my life" aspect, etc.), do the hard work, and live your life confident in yourself. You'll save yourself so many years of bad decisions and their consequences. Your "picker" will improve greatly, and you have a chance to find a healthy, satisfying relationship and years of happiness. Have kids with a man worthy of your children.

Don't count on anyone else, especially a serial cheater, to make you happy. Do that for yourself. The confidence you gain in yourself and your decisions is AMAZING. It's a much better way to live your life.

Hi there.
The best thing I ever did was get a divorce from my serial cheater. But I stayed and tried to make it work for a long time.

I wish i would not have tried for so long.
The wounds that staying created have been deep and slow to heal. I'm beginning to think that I am not going to ride the marriage rollercoaster again in this life.

I'd hate to see you suffer a similar fate.

The sooner you leave the sooner you can begin to heal and move on. That's my advice to you.

Also: don't get suckered by a marriage counselor. They always tell you that the marriage can be fixed, that's what they get paid to do. They tell EVERYBODY that.

You are not dumb. Quite the opposite.

Here's wishing peace for you, you certainly deserve it.

Has anyone waited to see if a habitual cheater would change and seen a change?

The biggest problem when giving another chance, and looking for change, is that we are looking for potential. We are looking for hope. We are hoping that ALL of the past discretions are the anomaly, and the future will be the 'real' person that we originally committed to. So, the answer to your question is 'Yes', many here have waited to see if the behavior changes. But the real issue is WHY a person chooses to try this. Is it because they are scared of what the future may bring? Are they afraid of being alone? Are they confident enough in their own skin to know their own self-worth, and the risk they are taking? If you do choose to give another chance, make sure you know WHY you are doing this.

What am I looking for exactly?

From what you posted, almost the exact opposite of what he has done. Look at this:

He said to give him a chance to prove to me that he has changed. He wants me to give him a chance before filing for a divorce. He tells me.. don't you see (after a month) all that I've been doing?

I have to get a lawyer because I think he is going to fight me on that and he has already said he won't just give me a divorce, "not until he's tried to win me back".

That's a whole lot about him and his wants, and not much concern about yours. He won't just give you a divorce? Even if that is what YOU want??

He is a screwed up individual. It will take years to change a lifetime of bad behaviors that he has built into his character. Are you aware of what you are really risking here? Are you willing to put some of your most productive years on hold to see is he can change....because the partner that you have now is an awful candidate? I don't like offering false hope, but there is no guarantee that he can't change. I just want to hammer home that you fully consider, and put yourself in a strong mental state, if you choose to try again.

Your M doesn't have a problem - your H does. To R(econcile), as opposed to r(ugsweep), he has to change from cheater to good partner. The means he has to look inside and resolve the issues that cause him to cheat - probably a variation on a desperate desire for external validation. That means therapy for him, not couples counseling.

Gently, your H is promising surface changes, but he needs to change his basic core. He's promising something like the 'white knuckling' alcoholics talk about, which can't work for long.

Here's the thing: he's so screwed up that he's probably not going to clean up his act on his own, but therapy can't guarantee that he'll clean up his act.

I think you may be 'co-dependent'. I say that because of your focus on your H, even though he's hurt you badly, instead of on yourself. I suggest checking out the Co-D thread in ICR here or looking at material on the web on co-d. The go-to author is Melody Beattie if you like books. Her stuff is easily available from bookstores and libraries. A good therapist will help, although they may not use co-d terminology.

Have you considered the 180? For info on it, check out https://survivinginfidelity.com/topics/598080/the-simplified-180/, which is on the 2nd page of the JFO forum.

IC would be a great next step for you!

All the best!

Couples therapy only works when there is a couple in therapy. Not two individuals, but an actual couple. And an actual couple doesn't exist in your relationship.

Your couples therapist is an idiot who is stringing you along for a continued payday. A good therapist could see his issues, that he has made no effort to change, and would be honest with you. Period.

Unhinged said it best: he will only change when the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of changing.

Based on all I've read, there is no pain for him in staying with the status quo.

That means you have to care for you. Disengage. Do the 180. Take care of yourself. Prepare for life on your own.

He will either figure out that you're not going to put up with it anymore & change, or you get to leave and have a life that doesn't include a serial cheater/abuser.

Either way, you win.

But not doing anything is nothing more than a major loss that has no hope of future recovery.