SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You all have been the greatest of support for me in understanding my dilemma. I gratefully appreciate all your great advise and help to aid in my trying to figure this out. I've got a lot of thinking and therapy to do for myself. Sad thing I just found out is that is IG social chatting happened to be a BOT or some other hacked account. Not that this changes anything but it very sad that our lives together could be done because of a scammer. I say scammer because she ended up sending him a couple small money transactions that he used the excuse for his daughter...She fell for it! Was a bitcoin transfer.

No one here has suggested that the WW in this case isn't 100% responsible for her actions or that the real culprit here isn't character. In fact, if one is reading carefully, it's been said overtly that depression does NOT cause people to cheat and that the bottom line IS character.

Depression is a real medical condition though, and it sounds like it's active in this WW's life. This could be the catalyst which tested the WW's integrity and boundaries, and if so, resulted in a failure of good character when her values didn't hold.

The 'whys' are not "excuses" and IME they do matter.

it very sad that our lives together could be done because of a scammer

No sir. SHE did this. It DOES NOT matter that this IG person was a scammer. SHE thought it was a man who was interested in her, and she was very interested in him. That's all that matters. Don't dismiss this new affair because it "wasn't real." In her mind,in her heart,it was very real. It was another affair.

I am going to agree with most posters on here that she chose to cheat. No one held a gun to her head. She did it. What I’m talking about is that deep dark hole of depression that is so impossible to live with that you will do anything to get a high of some sort. The problem is the high doesn’t last and the depression gets worse. Some people ride roller coasters, some race cars some cheat. If you are trying to reconcile with your wife…stop. You can’t reconcile with someone who is this deep into what ever owns her. If you want to reconcile you need to make some very strong orders, not suggestions, orders. She needs immediate therapy as intense as you can find it and she needs to go until she has some idea of how to manage her life without harming yours

Please refrain from making statements that generalize gender, WS/OP/BS, race, religion, or political alignment.

"I'm loyal babe but I had tacos last night and you know how horny tacos make me so I had to bang her".

I dunnnnnno, I think I'd be plenty satisfied after the tacos....

** Posting as a member **

An 'explanation' of a behavior says the source of the behavior may be '_____'.

An 'excuse' says 'pardon and overlook what I've done' - that is, 'I'm giving you an excuse, so suck it up'.

I have very, very rarely seen any advice in SI's G, JFO, or R forums that comes close to excusing any infidelity. No one - no one - is telling SP he has to stay with his W. No one is even recommending he stay with her. The are no excuses here. If you think there are, look inside.

Seek first to understand, then to be understood.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:47 PM, Friday, February 3rd]

So I have suggested separation until I/we can get ourselves right. I don't trust that she will change even though she is determined to as I have heard this in the past. My issue is there is no where for her to go and we have financial responsibility that we can't afford to live apart for now. For now we will set ground rules for be separated in home. Deep down I truly want to give her the opportunity to fix herself and our marriage but I fear this will only be temporary because of past record. Only difference is now my 19 yr daughter knows everything now and she of course is on my side. We have both been avoiding interaction with her and she is feeling it emotionally. I am working on making certified therapy appt's and she is already been doing so. My hope if we both get the help we need in this and after we can review if we want to try and workout the Marriage. I should say I... as she say she is going to make it right.

Separate bedrooms. You get the master bedroom.

No dates. Don't cook for her. Don't do her laundry.

No sex.

Read the 180,and put it into play. Treat her like an annoying roommate. Be polite. No small talk.

SadPadre,

First like everyone here, I am sorry we had to meet in this way. You are going to hear a lot of things from various posters, and I suggest you read them all, take the advice that applies to your situation, and bank the rest. I say bank the rest as you may find like me (and many others on here) that in the beginning it all seems like too much, too fast - people don't know your situation, your WS - and you are right, we don't. While many situations are similar, there are always differences.

My WH cheated with a married co-worker (MCOW - which always makes me laugh as I think of it as Mad Cow - but I digress...). His only social network outside of one very good friend who lives far away has been his workplace. Before the A he was very involved in socializing in that group - not anymore as he was outed and is pretty much an outcast now - so he has a lot of alone time like your wife. He also suffers from severe depression, disassociation, and anxiety. Admittedly I never knew how debilitating those things can be until I lived with someone who suffered from them. He also comes from an upbringing like your WS - not much "caring" in the way I think of caring, a lot of physical discipline, and very little real engagement on anything but a superficial level. His whole family is a mystery to me - they seem almost robotic in their daily lives - and they are very disengaged. Depression is NOT an excuse for cheating, but it can be some of the cause of the mental state that allows someone to get there.

I'm going to make a very general statement here, but poor mental health seems to relate to just about everything. I think we are splitting hairs when we use the words reason or excuse for cheating - it is a character issue - and character and mental health are co-dependent.

To make a comparison mental health is not an excuse for doing drugs or being a drug addict - but there are a ton of drug addicts with mental health disorders. There is a CORRELATION. So, now, what does a drug addict do when they have a drug problem and a mental health problem and they want to change? THEY deal with it. They get help for both their drug issues and the underlying problems that led them to using in the first place. There is little their partners, family members, friends, or anyone else can do to really rectify the problem. They have to want to change. What does a drug addict do when they are caught out, when they are not ready to change? They blame shift. They lie. They argue. They avoid. They rug sweep.

Having lived with a drug addicted family member for about 5 years during their struggle with getting clean, I heard many of the same kinds of lies and dealt with the same behaviors that my WH did when he was caught cheating. He also did not want to stop - or maybe he did, but not enough that he was willing to go though the soul shaking self examination that is required to make actual change - he, as he now says, couldn't get out of his own way. After he was caught the A continued, for another year, underground. He ended it multiple times (I have all his deleted texts to prove it as I wasn't believing him) and went back during that year, over and over and over again. He said after he was caught the first time he was not able to compartmentalize as well as he did before, so he felt crappy on most days, taking to her, talking to me, and the worst was when he was alone and had nothing to distract him. His depression worsened, his anxiety worsened, and it was just a downward spiral - yet he persisted in the A - stuck in a cycle because there was a part of him that just didn't stop. He said the internal struggle was terrible near the end and he fantasized about just running away, because what he was most afraid of, aside from conflict, was that everyone would find out what a flawed, scared, messed-up person he was.

He said none of this to convince me to stay with him. In fact I did not. But only upon my leaving (the A was over and blown up at his work about 9 months earlier) did he decide he needed to figure out what he needed to do to change. He committed to IC for HIMSELF not for me. He has dug into his background to try to figure out how he got here, and he sought treatment for his depression and anxiety in earnest in conjunction with his IC. HE DID THESE THINGS and there was nothing I could do to make him or help him or anything. Just like my family member who was the drug addict, he had to have the moment of clarity where he decided he did not want to be this person and he sought help, and just like my family member, I can see the change. He does not have to tell me - it's obvious.

That being said, my WH really wanted his depression to be the problem and therefore the solution - he wanted to be able to take a pill and be "better" - for things to be better. But that isn't all of it, and I think that's what some people are pointing out. Along with his depression, my WH has shitty coping mechanisms for all kinds of different aspects of life. He is conflict avoidant and has a very low capacity for empathy, both of which I think (I don't know) is from his upbringing - his family all the same in that way. For him getting his depression and anxiety under control allowed him to deal with the rest of it - to take a very harsh look at himself and how he handles stress, loneliness, worry, sadness - feeling uncomfortable - and to address it in different ways. My WH has admitted he had shitty boundaries prior to our relationship - I just didn't really know about them - so while to my knowledge his A (and the false reconciliation we had for almost a year and a half) was the only time he cheated on me, his cheating was not relegated to me alone.

All this is to say that in your WS's case, unless she wants to really do the work to figure out what inside her is causing her to do this - to be this person - there is little that you can do but "help her pack." What you can do is, as has already been said, get yourself some therapy to help you feel better about YOU as for most of us, this whole thing is a machete to the self esteem. Protect yourself as best you can and IF she is willing to do the work in earnest you will know - you can tell - and you have to decide if you want to wait while she goes through that process or walk away. Put yourself first and make an exit plan, not because you know what you are going to do right now, but so you can leave if you decide you need to.

If your WS is not willing to address her issues, you will likely just continue the cycle. In other words, if she doesn't want to figure out why she is like this and to the extent her mental health has in any part in this to address that too, she is not a safe partner for you (or anyone). So, to the extent you are not sure what to do, watch what SHE does. It's not an easy path - I'm sorry you have to travel it with us - but you are not alone.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 3:08 AM, Saturday, February 4th]

Thisissolonely wrote a perfect piece. It is informative, concise and kind.

Hi Sadpadre, so sorry to find you here. My advice, be absolutely honest with yourself, most betrayeds are not, in the beginning at least.

I love this woman, she is my life of over 30 years with a great daughter.

I read this a lot, I felt it, too. But it's not the "truth". What I found out is it that one loved the idea of this person who we felt and wanted to love us, who we wanted to see us as special, unique. But by now you found out yourself that this person you are facing is not this person who you thought they were. Stop feeding energy to this image which you created. The reality, the real person is not congruent with the image/idea you built in your mind and heart.
You already caught her years ago and by now you know that she never changed all those years leading to now. The sooner you become honest with yourself the sooner you will start to heal. It will hurt, for sure, but the pain will get smaller.

SadPadre

IMHO the only way to deal with infidelity is with reality.
That goes both ways…
Like the separation idea: Personally, I don’t think separation is a great idea if you want to reconcile, but that’s just MY view. What I do know however is that after a near-30-year marriage then in most states all assets in the marriage are joint, as are debts, contracts and so on. Her not being able to pay for a separate living-space isn’t her problem – it’s a joint problem.

I strongly encourage you to learn about divorce. I personally don’t think your marriage is doomed or has to head that way, but I strongly suggest you go online and maybe even visit an attorney simply to know the process, what to expect and what your obligations might be. Divorce is fair IMHO – there is a logic and a reason behind why she’s entitled to her share despite possibly making less, a reason and logic to why she can expect spousal support and so on. It might be that you end up divorcing, it might be the best outcome for you. But totally irrespective of how this goes it’s to YOUR advantage to know and understand the process.

Just keep in mind: Despite me stating that I don’t think your marriage is doomed than that’s just my POV. I have seen here on SI marriages end from what most would consider less cause, and I have seen marriages reconcile from worse. YOU have the power to decide what course YOU want to go. Be that divorce or reconciliation.
To divorce all that’s needed though is YOUR or HER decision. If you want to D and she doesn’t you still can carry it through. To reconcile you both, need to agree to do it, and it really is hard work.

Regarding your wife. I don’t see any posters justifying her affairs. I agree that the depression might weaken her mental resolve to fidelity, but I also think that she DECIDED to cheat. I’m big on the decision factor. I think that if we ever give a discount on the decision aspect we are doomed for repeats. Like if anyone were to suggest your wife’s depression MADE her cheat then there isn’t any way to prevent her from cheating again. The issue isn’t depression – but the decision to cheat.

Serial cheater? I have never really grasped the definition of when a cheater becomes a "serial" one. Is it the third time she cheats with the same guy? Or is it if she cheats with 2 guys? If she has 5 dates with one guy would that make her "serial"? What if she has 1 date each with 2 separate guys? Is there a time-limit, like if it’s within a year or two or whatever. I just hate that definition because… well… it’s stupid. Not to mention that by reading this site you will find respected members who are either the WS or the BS in a more-than-one infidelity relationship. Some that divorced, some that reconciled.

Look Sad,
Your situation is serious, and your marriage in a fragile place.
I once again STRONGLY advice you to learn about divorce. Gathering info won’t necessarily make you divorced but KNOWING what THAT option is empowers you. I can promise you it’s a scary process. I can promise you it’s not as scary as it seems at first. It’s just that I think threatening or wishing for divorce, separation and all that while doing nothing… THAT won’t get you anywhere.

Then I suggest you demand changes from your wife. Here are some I would look into:
You mention she’s on drugs for depression and mental issues. Have that reevaluated. If she’s been on the same or comparable drugs for years and this is the result… I’m thinking a new diagnosis, new prescriptions and new treatments.

It’s a know medical problem that doctors (male and female) tend to dismiss issues with women of a certain age. That once they turn 40+ they tend to get dismissive diagnosis and treatment. It’s also quite common that a doctor doesn’t go over or have access to past history and/or drug usage, so the prescriptions stack up or are even counter-productive. A good doctor will look at her history and try to evaluate why there isn’t more progress despite drug 1 having been used for over x years.

Therapy. She needs therapy. You two did MC, and that’s like putting the left leg into a cast because the right leg is broken. I suggest you two revisit MC, but only after both you and she have had IC to better prepare you for the requirements of MC.

While the above is going on I suggest a period of calm. Basically the major requirement you should have during that period is simply transparency. An acceptance on her behalf that there is not trust whatsoever. That she be 100% transparent and open with her tools of infidelity (seemingly social media) and meets your requirements for feeling safe.

Make it clear to her that she CAN have all the friends and lovers she wants on social media. Only not as your wife. That this is absolutely the last time you are going through this, and that she too has a voice. She CAN decide that her online lover is more important than her marriage.

You mention your sex-life. Well… infidelity isn’t about sex per se. It’s about power and validation. If the OM was a bot of some sort then it’s about money. Part of that is possibly to get info to cohere her to pay. This is something she needs to do but I encourage you to support her through this – if for no other reason than you daughter:
She sent OM explicit pictures. If those pics ever go online there is NO WAY of reeling them in. I suggest she get’s legal advice on how to send a text making it very clear that the pictures were sent for personal use and that any distribution will lead to legal action. I think you should also be awake for her being threatened/blackmailed by the OM and to have some plan in place to react to that.

Irrespective of if you reconcile or divorce, there is no advantage whatsoever in your 19 year old daughter possibly being exposed to her mom in some sexual stance online.

So sorry to hear... Divorce is devastating no matter the circumstances. I think you are on the right path toward healing. It sounds like she has unresolved issues somewhere deep that may need a deeply loving and understanding person to help her work through. Counseling for both of you would be my thought. 30 years is not something to give up on.