SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Even if she’s not back to her cheating ways, a grown ass woman who plays drunken, nonsensical social media mind games (and drags her vulnerable teen daughter into them) is a terrible partner.

No matter what happens in the future, she has to address the above to even be a half-reasonable parent. So when her own daughter catches her doing something that harms the family, she not only refuses to right her wrongs, but she DOUBLES DOWN on your daughter's conscience to keep it a secret. SO much so, that a parent of one of your daughter's friends has to call, as your daughter's only emotional outlet is that of her friends.

Who does that to their own child? Answer--a (currently) unfit parent.

I remember you, Marine, and I am sorry you're still in infidelity hell.

That weird story she told you? She got it from you. Remember when you thought that maybe she got caught on purpose so that you would make her stop? Isn't this story just a continuation of that? That not only does she want to be stopped, but that she's willing to sacrifice her happiness for yours?

It's just a load of bs.

You will find happiness again, and probably sooner than you think. For right now, concentrate on extricating yourself from this hell, and getting your children away from it as well. I believe in your last post you said she had borderline personality disorder? If so, she will almost certainly not give you up easily. Just be ready for all the things she will throw at you. Drama, sex bombing, love bombing, tears and recriminations. Please remember what she has done to you and your amazing children and be strong.

I wish you the best.

I'm so grateful for everyone's time and attention.

I completely agree that staying out of dating for a good long while is incredibly wise. I've often joked that the men I've seen go through divorces always get a new truck and a new woman within a month of splitting from their wife, and they usually lose both within 6 months. I'm determined to do the exact opposite. I have a 91 model car that I got 20 years ago and have kept in good mechanical shape. Its a rust bucket, but it drives. I'm thinking ahead that if things get tight, I'm certain I'll leave the marriage with my much newer pickup truck I just bought in November. I paid cash for it, 14k. I may well sell that once we're split just for liquid cash to help get a roof over my head and get me on my feet. I can drive that little rust bucket again for a while to create financial flexibility in what's going to be a very tight financial situation no matter how it ends up. I don't know anything yet, I'm not doing anything yet, just planning and thinking bigger picture. All that has to settle and see where things stand when the smoke clears. But I'm determined to do things differently than men I've seen who seem to go out to try to prove they're "better off" or something and jump into a new vehicle and new woman asap. I know I've got to actually go back to rock bottom and rebuild or it'll all be smoke and mirrors. And priority 1 will be a place with enough space for my children to be with me, not impressing anyone or trying to make WW jealous. I'm just thinking through my "guiding principles" or overarching philosophy I want to embrace going forward so I have a prism through which to view and analyze detailed decisions as they come up. And jumping into a dating pool I've never been in since high school does not fall into line with it at all. I gotta figure out who I am without her. I don't have any idea yet what I offer or what I need in a new relationship.

I'll write more later. A lot is happening and a lot of things going on, but I don't want to write the books I could probably write. Writing helps. I've grown very accustomed to all my conversation being her, every day. She's my friend I talk to. Now thar that's where it is, there's already a big void. So I'll write some here. I have a few close men, but they have busy lives too and it's not nearly the same as having the confidant and friendship that I've built with WW over decades. And I'm utterly determined not to lean on my children with any of this. It's not their place. They just need to know they're loved and that they're the kids. The roles didn't flip just because life crumbled like this. I'm the adult they turn to, not a peer they need to help fix. They have enough peers, they need a stable rock. Thanks again to everyone for listening and your kindness.

Marine it sounds like you have your head in the right place with all this. Have you visited with any lawyers yet? If not, you might just go on some free consults. I know when I was early in the process, I went on a few and it helped me a lot. In my case, we didn't have kids or share any joint assets so it was a lot easier, but it still helped me just getting some concrete ideas of what to expect/best & worst case scenarios/costs/etc. It calmed the fear down significantly for me just having some knowledge.

You're probably right that the financials will take some adjustment, but even that likely won't be as bad as you think. I know for me I was really worried about the financial aspects, but amazingly my financial life and health improved mightily once I didn't have someone around who was bleeding me dry (I know, go figure, huh?).

You might also check out the fear vs reality thread in the S&D forum. I think a LOT of people starting the S&D process have a lot of fear around it - which is normal because divorce IS objectively a scary prospect. But in so many cases the reality is far better than you think it will be. That was definitely true for me.

Just hang in there bud. I promise you that no matter the cost of doing it, divorcing from an unremorseful cheater is the best gift you can give to yourself. Of all of my regrets in my own story, divorcing mine has never been something I've ever regretted for one second. Life on the other side is awesome!

As Ellie said, please do join us down in S&D - that thread gave me so much comfort.

There will be hard stuff ahead, there always is. But just hold on to that memory of the moment the switch flipped and the relief came. It may be tough going, but you never forget that moment. Even now years later, I can point to both times it happened for me (once when I knew I was done but accepted a mutual limbo for a time, the second when I was done with limbo also).

Getting from here to there will still be a lot of heavy lifting, but knowing for sure there will be an eventual end is a huge help in getting through. Again I'm going to agree with Ellie - Life on the other side is indeed awesome!

If it was fake then why swear your daughter to secrecy?

Come on...don't believe that horseshit for one second.

Your wife gets a charge out of sneaking around. It’s like she’s playing hide and seek. Not much maturity there and you and your child are paying the price

I’m sorry you and your daughter have had to witness this.

You are married to someone who is emotionally stunted and has no remorse or empathy.

Having put a child in the middle of this is wrong. Your cheating wife knows it but doesn’t care.

That’s who is raising your child. How sad.

So I had my lawyer consultation yesterday, and it went really well. I really liked him, and he gave me some great information. He's adamant that our best case scenario is to try to work out an agreement amongst ourselves even if that's in consultation with our own lawyers. The numbers didn't come back as badly as I had feared. Divorce will be a major setback financially, but it looks survivable. He's sincerely unsure if I could prove adultery in a court because I took her back after the times it was provable. And the latest video recording of her messages is all about trying to meet up and bemoaning their inability to actually make it happen, and the sex talk is all reminiscing about distant things of when they worked together. So nothing shows that she actually did restart the physical affair to a provable level. It'd be an argument that he calls "interesting" because she clearly shows "resumption of association". But it's unclear how a judge would view it. Regardless, he's a lot more confident that if it came down to it I have a very strong argument for marital cruelty. Even if she sticks to her story of making it all up as giant ruse, he said that's very clearly emotional abuse that would be considered in light of the past, provable physical affair. We're really hoping it doesn't come to all that though. I don't want to give all my money to lawyers. But if she goes with a pit bull style lawyer and it has to turn into a fight, which I desperately hope it doesn't for her sake, my sake, and the kids sake, then even with an aggressive lawyer the facts are going to be very hard to do much with in her favor. But even if somehow absolute worst case scenario occurred, it's not as devastating as I feared. I'm planning to make her a very fair and generous offer and hope she'll accept and avoid giving a small fortune to lawyers.

She is adamant in her denial that she ever talked to him this time. She's truly doubling down on the story of being in a dark place and making it up. And she's desperate for me to stay and try again. And I love her dearly. Always have even when I wasn't the best husband. I've been protecting and providing for this woman for my entire adult life (and teenage really). It hurts deeply to hear her beg and see her cry, but I've seen it all before. She says she's absolutely willing to take a polygraph to prove she's being honest. I don't even know that it's worth it at this point other than for closure purposes. I don't think she'd pass. But the risk is that if she did take it and pass, then I know I'd be tempted to try to work it out. She swore she'd find a way to prove it was all a ruse, and thus far has been unable. She showed me where the burner account was only logged into by her and her friend, but that only shows who was logged in at that moment. It tells me nothing about who has been logged in. That's the problem with all this cheating technology like snapchat and instagram and all these apps; once the damage is done there's no going back and proving anything. It just creates doubt everywhere. This is the hardest thing I've ever done, to see her in this pain and know I could end it and not end it. Part of me thinks this would all be easier if she just left to be with AP and I didn't have any options. But really my only options are divorce or live my life wondering what she's doing all the time and waiting for the inevitable to happen again. It's just that still small voice that always wonders, "what if this was the wake up she needed. What if you are throwing in the towel just one time too soon". I don't know, I guess I'm rambling due to pain.

That's my update for the time being. I appreciate you all.

1345Marine

One thing regarding any thoughts on reconciling:
Her addiction is the key issue IMHO. While using – not matter what that substance is, alcohol, prescription, weed, coke… - she is not capable of being a changed spouse. I have this theory (and it’s only based on life-experience and what I have seen here) that an alcoholic/druggie will always prioritize his need – his fix – above all else. That’s why we have drunk parents pick up kids from daycare and drive into the next wall. I have seen stories here on SI where I suspect the alcoholic wife/husband is having an affair to divert the marital issues FROM the addiction to the affair.
So… IF you were to consider reconciling… This is what I would suggest:
Carry on with the D. Follow your attorneys advice on finding a settlement between the two of you. I personally suggest you emphasize single-payments rather than extended support or regular checks (for example: I would prefer her maybe getting more value in the present family home in lieu of 30% of your future military pension…) and you can POSSIBLY use the threat of adultery to leverage a slightly better deal. However – if you wish to attempt R then control the pace. No need to rush to an agreement, juts pace it to your convenience.
During that time – if your wife states she wants to reconcile – tell her that you are willing to consider it if she complies with certain prerequirements:
No substance. No alcohol whatsoever. That includes a single glass of white after a hectic Friday, no drinks with the girls, no one sip. Total 100% abstinence.
AA meetings. Not online – in person. Preferably a woman’s only group. A sponsor and commitment to 12-step work. This has to be accountable – as in you know she’s at the local AA on Monday, Wednesday and Saturday. I’m talking a minimum of 3-4 meetings per week for now.
No hanging on the computer. Maybe even cut off social media altogether for some months.

If she can comply with these demands for 60 days – which is within the time-frame a divorce would take – THEN you might have conditions that MIGHT enable reconciliation. Or not. By keeping the D process plodding along you could even at that point have an agreement that can be legally defined as the base for a future divorce in the next 12-18 months IF there is a relapse.

But… if she has substance issues and doesn’t do anything concrete about them… I don’t see much hope.

I was about to post and then read bigger’s entry and he said absolutely what I was thinking. Please read it a few times.

Truth is she needs a real plan to fix herself. Not just window dressing. Her focus should be on that. And if she truly wants a chance with you down the road, then she has to come to terms that with all she’s done to you, she must let you go now. This marriage is toast and she’s the one who burnt it.

A truly remorseful WW would realize this and understand that rebuilding what you have is not through begging you to stay, but doing the things to allow you to breathe again without wondering if your partner is hooking up with her cheating partner.

I urge you to tell her that the D is going through, and while there will never be guarantees, if she once a chance with you she needs to let you go and then focus on fixing what is broken inside her through IC and as bigger says, intense AA.

And she's desperate for me to stay and try again. And I love her dearly. Always have even when I wasn't the best husband. I've been protecting and providing for this woman for my entire adult life (and teenage really). It hurts deeply to hear her beg and see her cry, but I've seen it all before. She says she's absolutely willing to take a polygraph to prove she's being honest. I don't even know that it's worth it at this point other than for closure purposes. I don't think she'd pass. But the risk is that if she did take it and pass, then I know I'd be tempted to try to work it out. She swore she'd find a way to prove it was all a ruse, and thus far has been unable. She showed me where the burner account was only logged into by her and her friend, but that only shows who was logged in at that moment. It tells me nothing about who has been logged in. That's the problem with all this cheating technology like snapchat and instagram and all these apps; once the damage is done there's no going back and proving anything. It just creates doubt everywhere. This is the hardest thing I've ever done, to see her in this pain and know I could end it and not end it. Part of me thinks this would all be easier if she just left to be with AP and I didn't have any options. But really my only options are divorce or live my life wondering what she's doing all the time and waiting for the inevitable to happen again. It's just that still small voice that always wonders, "what if this was the wake up she needed. What if you are throwing in the towel just one time too soon". I don't know, I guess I'm rambling due to pain.

The Head-Heart tug of war is brutal. You know by now that trying to stay with her is a horrible bet. That you will most likely become her whipping boy while she weaves her webs once again, but your heart is ensconsed with memories, hopes, and dreams of love and what may have been. Its almost like muscle memory.

Ive worked with a lot of addicts over the years both in in-patient and out-patient settings and have watched as those who try to stay with them in any meaningful loving relationship get worn down to the nub. Throw infidelity in the mix and you have a round house and upper cut in quick succession. AAers call their addiction cunning, baffling, and powerful which is actually an undesrtatement in my book.

There is also this thing among adulterous addicts and their faithful spouses known as caretaking pain bonds. I think that this may be at play here from reading your post. Id encourage you to dig into this in IC and Alanon.

I advise you to take strong resolute action now to end this cycle of destruction for yourself and for your child(ren). Proceed with the divorce, invest in you and your child. I have girls myself and cant imagine a 16 year old having to deal with what youve described. Time to end this, if not for you, then for her.

Strength, clarity, and resolute action to you Marine.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 3:10 PM, Friday, February 10th]

I'll tell you why the story isn't true. The part about her relaying your comment about burning the store down. If she's really talking to herself, she would not put that in. And she'd be much more obvious with shit like "you were so good tonight". Not trying and failing to meet up - that makes no sense. She wasn't a writer trying to create a believable scenario, thinking what interesting details she can add to her work ... according to her, she was pass-out drunk and trying to convince you she was cheating. Does the exchange sound like that? It doesn't to me.

Marine

I’m doing some traveling and right now I’m in an area I haven’t been in before. I have a rental car and as we all do rely heavily on my gps for directions. Yesterday the map clearly hadn’t heard of some road-work and I got lost. Instead of heading east at some junction I carried on along the wrong road.
At that point I had some options…
Despite knowing that the road I was on would get me to my destination then at least I knew it was heading that way.
I also knew that if I stopped all I would know is where I am. Not necessarily how to reach my destination.
I KNEW I was on the wrong road, but KNEW it was getting me closer to my destination. Eventually Siri or whatever the voice is that thinks it controls our lives barked out a change that made sense: Take the second left at junction 123 and head east for x miles or whatever.

I think you might be in a comparable situation. Only it doesn’t really sound like you have 100% accepted divorce. So why not try to understand the destination isn’t Reconciliation or Divorce, but to GET OUT OF INFIDELITY.
To get there you have 2 routes that the GPS might suggest: Route D and route R. The two paths might be quite clear, but MAYBE you just hit some roadworks. It MIGHT be OK for you to drive along some side-roads leading you towards your destination before you decide if the left ahead leading you to R is the better option than the right leading you to D. Just be very very realistic about it. If the road to R still has broken bridges or snow-covered roads then MAYBE the road to D is your only realistic destination.

Remember: your destination is that x months from now you are not in infidelity.
It’s not R nor D. It’s getting out.
At that point – once you reach your destination – you might be worrying about if you missed the scenic viewpoint R offered, or the fantastic rest-stop D offered. But those were only waypoints. Either way – R or D – you reach your destination.

During that time – if your wife states she wants to reconcile – tell her that you are willing to consider it if she complies with certain prerequirements:
No substance. No alcohol whatsoever. That includes a single glass of white after a hectic Friday, no drinks with the girls, no one sip. Total 100% abstinence.
AA meetings. Not online – in person. Preferably a woman’s only group. A sponsor and commitment to 12-step work. This has to be accountable – as in you know she’s at the local AA on Monday, Wednesday and Saturday. I’m talking a minimum of 3-4 meetings per week for now.

Look... AA saved my mom's life. She just got 10 years last month. I believe in AA, I love AA.

But.

Making her attending meetings a requirement for R won't do much imho. I have absorbed enough secondhand AA over the years to know with almost 100% certainty that if someone is there because they are being forced to go (either by the courts or by family/loved ones etc), they typically don't get the benefit of it. In alllll of the many people my mom has seen come and go over the years, I'd say maybe 1 in 500 of the 'forced to go' folks actually get and stay sober and do the work. The vast majority of them just stay as long as they need to to satisfy the requirement. My mom lives and breathes her sobriety, she is very active in her AA community - believe me when I tell you I know what someone dedicated to doing that work looks like versus someone who's going through the motions.

Again just MHO, but choosing sobriety has to come from the addict in order for it to be real and lasting. Cus sobriety is not just about not doing the substance.

Marine the good news here is that most addicts will not make that choice until they hit their rock bottom. And maybe (it's a slim maybe but it is a maybe), you divorcing her raises that rock bottom to where she's at. Maybe it's the impetus she needs to dig in.

But having done the addict dance, my advice to you is do not wait around for that. Don't base any of your life decisions on it. Proceed with the D. If she decides to get serious about her sobriety and do that work, she has to make the choice to do that on her own. And if she does go do that and turns herself around? Well maybe a couple years down the road your paths cross again and you can take another shot at building a new relationship. If she doesn't decide to get sober, you're saving yourself a LOT of grief and heartache by divorcing her. Just my 0.02.

Annaew nailed it.

Adding the parts about your feelings about being in the store would not be in there if it was not him.

What does she say about that?

I would send that part of the conversation to her every time she opens her mouth.

She is a monster for that.

You don’t even have a .01% chance of any reconciliation until she tells the truth about that.

The truth is she was telling the truth when she was drunk. She is lying sober.

I would say that’s the dumbest lie I ever heard from a cheater but actually it might be one of the smartest.

If there was an award for creating a good lie for the most obvious thing in the world she might win.

There is more I want to say but you need to keep moving forward.

You really need to get some serious distance from her. Honestly she needs some distance from you too.

Does she have family she can stay with for a few weeks?

Talking to her is just clouding your head right now.

I’m serious. Every time she talks don’t answer unless it’s about kids or responsibilities and make her read out loud the entire section about your feelings.

Do not talk to her until she does it. She needs to see and hear how disgusting she was.

Also make her read out loud the other sections as well.

Do not engage in any conversation until she does.

Do it over and over again.

I don’t think she wants to be there. It’s the kids and family. You are both scared of the unknown.

You both need serious distance from each other.

Keep moving with the divorce. I know you did not last time. You need to. You could always still be together in the future (you shouldn’t) but you could without being married.

I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that she has to come clean or there is nothing to discuss. Nothing. If she will not tell the truth there is nothing to work with.

Also make her read that part out loud. She needs to hear it.

Good evening. I thought I would post an update on how my situation is playing out. I am grateful for everyone who has taken time out of their life to read and empathize and attempt to give me sound advice and just has made me feel heard and less alone.

Let me start with some very surface level background of where my mindset started to try to help some understand maybe why I think the way I do. In my eyes there's really only two options after adultery, attempt R or D. And I've read through a lot of threads on here, and I actually read through the entirety of SpaceGhost007's situation in the archived stuff. Someone made the comment in that thread that it seemed like the D's vs. the R's, and there was even some terms thrown around about R at any cost and things like that. Made sense if you read or participated in that one because of how unique a situation it was. I think before any of this I could've rightly had the accusation of "R at any cost" thrown at me. I will not go into religious discussion, but very surface level I would've considered myself an extremely conservative Christian. Since all this has happened my faith is shaken to the core, and I really don't know what I believe anymore with any great clarity. I've certainly had a lot of dogmatism knocked off me. But suffice to say that there is indeed a sect of Christians who believe divorce is never an option, and if it does occur then you're not able to remarry unless your spouse or ex or whatever dies. I won't defend it. I won't explain it, but just know they exist, and for a long time I found the arguments convincing based just off the text as I read it in the Bible. Even before I was impacted by adultery, I had moved off this position. But I still empathized with the arguments for it. I'm only saying that to give a little bit of background as to my mindset and where I come from and why I approach things kind of how I do. It's really hard to shake what's ingrained in you and long-held convictions. So even once I had softened on that belief but was still very conservative in my faith, I still had and probably have that mode of thinking influencing how I operate and process things.

So there's been some loving concern thrown my way that I'm perhaps being sucked back in by WW and believing things that may not be true and letting my "R at any cost" roots show. And that's totally a valid criticism. I think I am vacillating way more than many BS's would in my situation. But I don't think that means that I'm ultimately going to commit to R. I'm still stuck in this incredibly frustrating holding pattern of just being lost and floating and having life kind of happen to me. I'm not sure what has to happen to break the paralysis for me personally. I have hired a divorce attorney, and we have a plan to initiate separation and I actually spoke to him for an hour on the phone just last week going over options. I'm to the place of being able and legally protected to just move out if I want to without automatically forfeiting my home or being disadvantaged in asset division or potential alimony proceedings or child custody issues. I feel really good about the legal counsel I've received on my situation. I don't want to go into all that in detail, but there's a couple of different avenues I can take to make it happen if I make the decision to pull that trigger. I was ready to last week, but then I got "sucked back in" through tears and pleadings and promises to fix what's broken and protestations and promises that WW had not actually reinitiated contact with OP, despite the video of a text threads that either show she did resume an affair or, if her story were to be true, in a very mentally ill state designed a video to look like she had. WW has offered to take a polygraph to prove it, but again I've been paralyzed with indecision in making that happen. I have to overcome my mistrust of that whole process I think for it to have any validity in my mind. Maybe someone in this forum can help reinforce some faith in it (and a few posters have already). It just seems like spending a lot of money and time for something that if she fails, she'll manipulate my distrust, and if she passes, I'll still have my doubts that she found a way to beat it. She's offered to actually delete all social media. But what good does that do if I can't trust her? There's always ways to stay in touch with AP if that's what you want to do. I have to work and live my life. I can't just monitor all the time. I still feel like I tell her what's going on in my mind and the struggles I have even trying to trust and start a process of R, but it seems like she has no idea how to respond to that in any way that's helpful. Maybe therapy could help that? I don't know. Our sex life is completely dead, and that really sucks for both of us. Both of us are frustrated with that, but I can't make her see what I'm struggling with or she doesn't know how to help me overcome any of it. How can you be intimate with a woman if you're not even sure she's not off banging some other dude during the day? How do you find safety in being intimate with someone if you feel like you're being compared to another man, or worse yet that perhaps you're just the available option at that time when she'd really rather have him if he were available then? I cannot get out of my own head and just enjoy any moment with her, even non-sexual, because I constantly wonder if I'm being compared and coming up as lesser than AP. The video she created either alone or with him has messages back and forth with him that talk about how awesome their sex life was and her telling him how desperately she wanted him while they were working together, and I just absolutely cannot shake that. Yeah, our sex life has always been phenomenal too. But what if theirs was better? I shouldn't be in fucking competition. It's ridiculous. It shouldn't matter how damn good he is. She shouldn't know. It's just miserable having something that was always so joyful and fun stripped out of my life and turned into a source of pain and agony.

And so that leads to the other big issue with R. In the past before the A, a huge part of our problem was always that I wasn't a good friend. I took her for granted. And I know that the answer to all this is for me to pursue my wife and make her feel desired. Perhaps if I'd done that from the start, the A would've never happened. So now that we're at this rock bottom, I feel like in order for her to be fulfilled in our marriage and create the life we both want, she needs me to pursue her and love her and make her feel desired in body and mind. I know that's a core need she, and probably most anybody, needs. I've tried to do that for years after I finally realized how terrible and lonely I had made her feel. But by that time it was too late for her to receive any of it from me. And within a year or so, I now know the affair had started and AP had this halo around him that I would never be able to penetrate until that fog wore off. She was in full on vilify the spouse mode, and I spent years pursuing a woman who really didn't have much interest in my anymore. Well, now I just don't have any of that in me anymore. Even if we do stick it out and truly try at R, how long will she be able to deal with me trying to heal to a place where I have any desire to pursue her and make her feel cherished and wanted? That was a big part of why she said she went back to AP after DD1 in the first place, she couldn't deal with all the incredible lows I was suffering through and the painful words I threw around and how withdrawn I would become. So that's a rock and a hard place right there. To successfully R she needs me to make her feel wanted, and my mind can't overcome the hurt enough to not feel resentful at feeling like I'm competing with another man, so is R doomed from the start?

But D brings a lot of issues too? How in the hell does anyone afford that? Do banks give out loans to help you get a place to stay until you get your feet back under you while divorcing? And I'm scared of losing her too. I'm not convinced she's actually wanting to keep me rather than just wanting to keep my paycheck and the stability I provide that she's known since she was a teenager, but I know I'm scared of losing HER. When it was good, man she was good to me. I was an immature guy who didn't know how to treat her, but man she showed me love in ways that most men could only dream of. What if I never find that again? No one is ever going to know the demons I've wrestled in life and have wrestled them with me like she has. And perhaps less importantly, she is an absolutely incredible lover. I've got enough men I'm close to to have heard so many complaints about dead or boring bedrooms, and I don't want to lose her as a lover either if we can ever get that healthy again. I admit that's a minor concern compared to a lot of the others, so please forgive me if I sound like a dog concerned about relatively minor things, but it's something I'm not really happy to have to lose if I lose her.

So as of right now I'm just stuck in this holding pattern of hoping things get better or things get worse and I'll be pushed one way or the other. I'm waiting for a lightbulb to go off one way or the other. In actuality, I'm waiting for life to happen to me rather than taking command of my own life. I realize how bad that sounds, but I want to be honest in my assessment too. I just don't know how to break out of this paralysis.

And this update has gotten really long and rambling to some degree, so I'll go ahead and wrap it up and try to respect everyone's time. I appreciate all the interactions and the empathy I've found from you all. I'm not running away, I just don't have much to update because I haven't done anything and don't know what the hell to do. Everything feels like a dumb move and I can justify almost any course of action in my own head. I'm just kind of floating in an ocean with waves that take me up and down and all around and hoping I remember how to swim soon.

Hi Marine,

Often I've found that simply writing my thoughts out can help to clarify the situation.
Feel free to keep talking and writing - even of it feels like it's

gotten really long and rambling to some degree.

We're here to listen, and sometimes to reflect with you and give helpful advice and different perspectives.
Be assured that we understand, and are here to encourage and support you as you seek a way out of infidelity.
Regards,
FAWH

Hi Marine,

I'm so sorry you are here after DDay #3.

I relate to so many parts of your story, especially the odd paradox of feeling resolute and wavering at the same time.

I've got some things to say about capital-A Addicts (those who take big risks and cause great hurt to get their fix) from experience.

First thing is that addiction is easily transferred. There are a lot of people who have joined multiple 12-step programs. They might start at Narcotics Anonymous, then realize they also have to add Alcoholics Anonymous, then Overeaters Anonymous, then...

The cycle of addiction revolves around the brain producing feel-good chemicals. That's a constant. What causes the brain to do that can be changed up easily. Most AA members start smoking because, if they've got to be addicted to something, at least it's a socially acceptable addiction, and one they can generally(!) feed into without being abusive, breaking the law, lying, etc. There is also a lot of camaraderie among smokers.

I bring this up for your consideration. Your STBXWW probably has a lot of addictions, or will easily acquire a new one if she has to stop with another.

I know you are making your own plans and you might be considering the recommendation to tell your wife she must join a 12-Step program. They really do work, but only if she's really there to change. She's a pretty fluent liar, so it wouldn't be hard for her to pay lip service to each of the 12 steps and keep her sponsor off her back without really confronting herself. That's what my WH did. He was at 2.5 years "sober," but still a self-centered Addict in every sense. No alcohol. No smoking. Just social media addiction (really came in handy when his A was just an EA), overeating addiction, shopping addiction, gambling addiction, and abuse of other substances.

Speaking of 12-step programs, Al-Anon is its own support group/12-step program for people who are living with or trying to support alcoholics. I haven't had the guts to join a local meeting, but the literature they provide is very wise and helpful.

My last thought is something I've been grappling with since DDay: being married to an Addict is an addiction of its own. That's why it's hard to leave, even though logic dictates you probably should have cut and run long ago.

You can look into "trauma bonding" for an explanation on why we become hooked on being with our Addict partners.

Hm... writing this now makes me think I might need a 12-step program.

Feeling for you, Marine. Keep sharing.

[Edited to add some other addictions to my WH's list.]

[This message edited by HotPinkFlairPen at 8:33 AM, Friday, March 10th]

I truly feel for you. Do the poly! Get that done and over with while she’s willing to take it.

Since you mentioned Space Ghosts thread, even though he had no intention of R, he still went ahead with the poly, WW passed, and it gave him piece of mind.

Concerning their efficacy, I have always been a big proponent. You can go back and read many threads where the BH was reluctant to get the poly done, was finally convinced, and the results proved to be a game changer. However, the longer you delay the more problematic things can become.

First and foremost you need the truth. Do the poly, get the truth, then you can make the R or D decision from there.