SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello all,
I realize that I'm writing in this a lot, and I apologize if I'm writing too much. But I work a night shift alone and the nights get so incredibly lonely, writing makes me feel a bit more connected to humans. I could go up on the floors and talk to nursing staff, but I'm just not ready to do that. Besides, there's no one I trust enough or know enough on any level that I'd be able to talk about this all consuming topic that's just got me feeling like I have no insides. I protected my marriage. I truly did. Four years in this place and I don't think I know 5 womens' names here, and there are very very few men. So I've always just kind of stayed to myself around all the machinery. All my eggs were in my wife's basket. She was the one I'd text throughout the night if I talked to anyone. So now I'm just this broken dude who sits by himself, and even if I wanted to go try to make friends, this version of me is the last version I want to introduce anyone to.

This whole thing is a whirl wind. I feel like I'm experiencing the full range of what can happen. My wife is desperate for me to stay, desperate to convince me that she didn't actually talk to AP and it was all a ruse that got out of hand, a ruse that came from a dark dark place inside her. She wanted to set me free, but was also convinced that I was cheating too and had gotten tired of the coldness she felt from me, so she was also trying to hurt me. She says she just never intended for it to get back to me after she had done it, but it got caught before she could stop it. But even if somehow that were true, I still have to deal with the cruelty of what she did. She cheated for years, has expressed how she never could've dreamed the look of pain and devastation and "literally watching your soul leave your body" when I found out. She talked often of how that changed her (though not enough to stop her from going back to him the time she admitted after DD1 and prior to DD2). She knows how it hurt. And even if she was typing to herself, she made sure to write lines like, "I never got behind on my work because I was busy fucking you (AP). But I did usually come back to work to fuck you. And there were quite a few times I talked you out of work or tried to help you finish your work to get you to fuck me, lol." If it's a made up ruse, she still wrote that. She wrote that at the time with intention for me to find. Or, much more likely, she was actually saying that to AP a couple short weeks ago. How do you do that to someone? Why make this as painful as humanly possible?

So she's desperate for me to stay, swears we can still rebuild what we've broken, but at the same time tries to convince me that I'm a narcissist and I destroyed her first. She lies and lies and lies, and then accuses me of lying all the time. She makes statements about how I only tell my side of the story to my family to make myself the victim, but I haven't made up a single thing. I own my past. I was a bad husband on a lot of levels. I've never hit her and I've never cheated and I've never really even said anything utterly mean as far as name calling. I've said things I wish I hadn't said, but I don't recall ever trying to take cheap shots at things that I knew would hurt her. Maybe I have and surely she remembers them. I have always been a more than 50/50 partner on caring for our kids and housework and cooking and cleaning and laundry, and I handle 100% of the yardwork and mechanical work and fixing stuff that breaks. But I was cold. Even before the adultery. I was a terrible friend. I was controlling. I'd micromanage our finances and put her in a box where she always felt like she was screwing up. She did have to walk on eggshells around me because nothing she did was ever good enough. I very rarely complimented her, and I was a terrible friend. I didn't value her friendship or want to spend the time with her necessary. I was a workaholic. I'd wake up in the morning and just go, go, go trying to get all the "things" done. I grew up in a single mother home, and somewhere in my brain I became convinced that handling the providing and fixing all the things and doing all the work was what made a good husband. I saw my mom struggle with the weight of all that, and we got married so young, and all I thought I needed to focus on was those things. It's her common line that she had to beg me even for a hug. And there's truth in that. I would tell her that I just don't need physical affection like she does, and if she needed a hug she just needed to remind me. I'd try, but I couldn't rewire myself to need what she needed (but God I miss the hugs and sweetness now). And I did change. And she admitted that I changed. It took a marriage shakeup to make it happen, but I became a different man for five years. But she was already broken by then, and within a period of time had a new thing going with AP, so whatever I did was irrelevant by that point. But she even has admitted on multiple occasions that she could see me trying so much harder. And while I certainly own the damage I did, I don't know what a person can do more than actively start changing and keep it up year after year trying to prove that this is the new normal. But now she talks regularly about how I don't have any humanity left and I'm a lying monster and I broke her but I'll make everyone think it was all her fault. But I even left a IC that I was seeing because he told me on multiple occassions to leave my wife, and I just didn't want to hear it. So I sided with my wife and stopped seeing him. Why would I lie to my own IC in a private setting? I guess i'm just lonely and reaching out. My heart hurts. I know what I need to do, so I don't need a lot of tough love telling me to leave. I'm doing that. I desperately wish I didn't have to.

Sending love to everyone else out there who's hurting.

Wow - I can see why you are struggling. I am pretty forgiving (I was big on bad choices in my younger days) so I think I was willing to accept a lot more (not necessarily believe - but accept and feel like people deserve second chances) but I think I would have a really hard time believing: (1) this was all a "game" of some sort, (2) why, even if true, she would choose this way to "set you free", and (3) that she is sincere in her wanting you to stay so that she can be a better person.

I guess forgetting all of the "is she lying or not" guesswork (I don't know but I suspect that yes, she is lying, as that seems to be a pattern not just for her but for most people who have/are cheaters/cheating) and ask yourself if you want to remain with someone who AT BEST decided to make up some huge f-ed story to end things with you instead of doing, say, 1000 other things like, IDK, talking to you honestly? And who could do this AFTER cheating for years prior?!?!?!

Gosh, ultimately I'm so sorry you are here. What do YOU want at this point?

EDIT: I won't point you to all the resources here as I know you have already been directed to them. But it seems to me maybe return to IC FOR YOU - a different IC if you want but I think you should look out for yourself a bit more here. See my signature line :)

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 1:36 AM, Sunday, February 12th]

Sounds like you've tried very hard and all you can, man. You certainly were no saint - none of us are - but you dealt with everything like someone emotionally mature does: you try to improve wherever you're lacking and you still try to this day.

In my bluntly honest opinion, though, I can't exactly say the same for your wife. She talks a great deal, but there's no substance. All the problems she had with you she decided to deal with by taking an AP. Even now, she sounds really manipulative. She's really good at playing the victim and making you the bad guy, throwing all your shortcomings back in your face while trying to plead reconciliation. What has she improved about herself from the third time you found out?

Whatever you choose, man, I wish you peace away from the madness as you work through the night.

It is so apparent how much pain you are in. You loved her and still do. The thing is she is not the person you have in your head. The affair, then going back after seeing your pain and doing it again. Then this last episode with whatever this is just hits home that no matter what she says now, she is not safe.

It was predictable that she is now ever so sorry and will do whatever it takes to make things right. But didn’t you hear that after d day 1. Didn’t you hear it again after d day 2?

You are in the midst of hell right now. This is most likely the low point. You don’t need to take drastic steps like filing now, but you need to put some space between you and her right now. She is sucking you in, and judging from the last few posts, it’s working.

Step back. If you can do a separation that would be the best thing. Give it some time to see how you feel in a month or so. At that point you won’t be in the middle of the shitstorm and you can make a rational thoughtful decision.

Don’t let your short term pain enable her to get her claws back in. Breathe and take your time. It does get better.

Of course you weren't a perfect husband. Because you're HUMAN and no one is perfect. You've learned and you've made changes and that's no small thing. Give yourself due credit for that please.

I'm sorry you're struggling right now. I remember that time period in my journey and it was awful. I would say I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but that would be lying. I would really be okay with any cheater that has damaged their BS feeling a fraction of that kind of pain. I'm 4.5 years or and I still feel that way, even tho I feel mostly great these days. Just sharing that so you hopefully know that whatever feelings you're struggling with right now are normal. And they pass, I promise you.

Just hang in there. Find the quiet in yourself and just breathe. You'll find your footing in that quiet. You will be okay, no matter what shakes out.

You know marine, I knew you stopped your original post because you were getting very skeptical answers that were skeptical of your wife from some of the best from this site.

You’ve got to remember several of the people on here haven’t just lived it. They have read 1000 + stories and have read probably every professional book on the subject. Not to mention talked personally with psychiatrist, cops, doctors and especially lawyers.

I’m just saying that because sometimes some stories have unique elements but they play out in predictable patterns that repeat again and again.

I’m glad you posting more now. You need an ear to vent and some encouragement.

I would get yourself back into counseling.

I almost restarted your original thread because I saw some of your random comments and I knew you where hurting and probably not making any progress.

It’s funny you mentioned that you quit your IC because they were telling you to divorce your wife.

You post here "please don’t tell me to divorce I know".

Well you have to hear it. You have to hear the truth even if it’s annoying and hurts. Hopefully some useful information that you find helpful trickles in with it.

Don’t get discouraged again. If you hear the same things again and again for the most part it comes from good intentions.

You do need to hear it. Both your post have statements in them that are concerning.

In your first post I gave your wife the benefit of the doubt because she was in the hospital and you did not have any support and were starting the process for asking for help. She was so convincing to you that I wanted to give her a chance.

She is a good liar I’ll give her that. Top notch. Like I said in my last post to you, the set you up to find fake text to AP is so stupid it’s almost genius. It almost makes me believe there is a chance it’s true it’s so crazy.

I could write a novel just like you could.

You asked a question in your first post. It was something like "everything between us was real, it had to be real"

The answer is yes your relationship with your wife was real. But when she had an affair she became a different person.

There is a saying on this site "it’s like your wife died" but instead of being dead in a cruel twist she is still walking around. It looks like her and sounds like her and has her memories but it’s not her.

Her affair changed her more than any pills. That’s the reality.

In your first story you said you were filing for divorce but you needed a years separations and she was going to show you in that year she was going to change.

You probably did not.

I’m not making fun of you. I have genuine concern as your pain really comes through. I don’t want you hurting like you are.

You needed to. She needed consequences.

Also when you are telling us your story like this last one. Well I can prove she was talking to her friend. I can prove her friends boyfriend was abusive.

You were looking for a way to believe her because you love her.

Even if that preposterous story were true
What got in her head to think that even creating a secret Instagram account was ok. She was supposed to remove it completely.

I’m just pointing these things out because it’s why you quit your IC and it’s why you left your first post.

It’s totally understandable why you feel the way you do. Your whole world is destroyed.

Don’t let it go this time. Feel free to vent as much as you like. Just ignore all the comments you don’t think are helpful and listen to the ones you think are.

But you need to hear some things as your wife has a PHD in manipulating you.

This got long so I’m going to do a second post with some tips I think might help.

I'm 7 months out and I'm still beating myself up over 'not noticing the affair' and whether I could have done more to stop it.

The thing is, I couldn't. No one could. She would have cheated regardless of how perfect I was because it simply comes down to the fact that she liked doing it.

I know you're doing it tough mate, but you are not alone. Many of us have been in your exact shoes and it know the sheer panic and betrayal you are feeling. But realise that you were in love with someone that didn't exist; your wife was not the person you thought her to be AT ALL. I promise you, when the anger fades, you will end up pitying her.

And she will do this to the next guy, to the point where betraying people will become her life. You on the other hand, will be extrememly happy with someone deserving of your character. But I know you can't see it now.

There's a great quote: 'I was given a box of darkness; it turned out to be a gift.'

Tips post.

1) find a new job with regular daytime hours.

I was promoted in my first job to a grave yard shift. I did it for four years making a lot more money than all of my friends. That’s why I did it.

But it warps you. It makes you a creature of the night and out of sync with sunlight and civilization. It’s actually true it damages you psychologically.

I remember the little things like getting off and only having things open that served breakfast. Then when the weekends came I’m still waking up at 1 in the afternoon.

You’re literally living in a zombie apocalypse as nothing is open and there are no people anywhere.

Even in this crap storm making that change will make you feel better and that can take some time so I would make that an immediate goal.

2) I second and third the she needs to go stay with some family for a time. You need separation from each other. You both need space. I would say at least 30 to 60 days. Probably more like 60 to 90 days.

You both need to detox from each other. You can start a separate post asking for advise on how to handle that.

3) don’t talk about the damage she is doing to your kids. She is probably already mad at your daughter. Bringing them up even though it’s true might just cause more resentment between them.

Only talk bout them in terms of making sure you both have reasonable access to them. Your older ones are more difficult as they are little adults and are not stupid so just be honest with them.

4) I would hand her copies or make her download 2 books immediately.

How to help your spouse heal from an affair by Linda McDonald. It is really short and the reason everyone on this site likes it is because it focuses squarely on helping the betrayed spouse.

The second book is the first book I ever read and I still think it’s the best and it’s called "Not just friends" by Shirley glass.

This book is long and it’s friendlier to the cheater which is why some people hate on it. Also they don’t like the title. But it is still the most thoroughly researched book on infidelity out there.

You should read them too. Just in case you don’t listen and try again (you should not) but just in case.

Not just friends may actually help you wife with her own healing as there are parts in there for her as well.

If she truly wants this marriage then she needs to stop arguing and figure out how she is going to fix things and these two books will help get her started.

If she can’t be bothered than what’s the point.

5) I like to listen to audio books while I’m working and working out. if you can I suggest you do the same.

I also make it a point to read at least a chapter a night before bead of a book for the last 2 or 3 years. I obviously skip some nights but other nights I read much more.

They say to truly memorize a book you need to read it 10 to 15 times. I cheat and read them several times and listen to them repeatedly on audio.

You said your wife was your first girlfriend.

That means you are going to need some help and encouragement to start over.

The best books I ever read for men were,

2 books from a dr Robert glover. "No more mr nice guy" and "dating essentials for men"

He is an older guy who got a divorce and had to start over.

You have a lot of similarities and even your caretaker single mother upbringing to what he calls "nice guy syndrome"

I think it may help you. And dating essentials for men is a dating book but also discusses much of the same psychology in no more mr nice guy.

These are not evil man books despite the title.

In fact these books discuss needing to be vulnerable which is something you talked about.

Also I highly recommend a book from a big mainstream author named mark Manson named "Models" his newest book "subtle art of not giving a f$&k" was pretty good too but models I would consider essential.

Your story is so tough. I’m so sorry. Get some space from her and keep posting.

You can come out of this. You can. Try to keep yourself busy tonight. Bring some dumbbells to work that could help as well.

Have as good a night as you can right now.

I haven't read your original post, but I can hear your pain in this one. I also hear that you recognize that love isn't enough. It's not a relationship and not a partnership.

I was cold. Even before the adultery. I was a terrible friend. I was controlling. I'd micromanage our finances and put her in a box where she always felt like she was screwing up. She did have to walk on eggshells around me because nothing she did was ever good enough. I very rarely complimented her, and I was a terrible friend. I didn't value her friendship or want to spend the time with her necessary. I was a workaholic. I'd wake up in the morning and just go, go, go

All my eggs were in my wife's basket. She was the one I'd text throughout the night if I talked to anyone.

What I hear is that you took emotional support from the relationship, but didn't put any into it. Worse, you wore her down. By the time you came around and changed your behavior, you wife was /is full of resentment and low self-esteem. You can't build a house on a broken foundation, no matter how good the roof and windows are. Things aren't all-or-nothing. She may have felt remorse for how she hurt you, and she may have also wanted the validation from her AP. She may want to rebuild the marriage, and you may have narcissistic traits.

None of that justifies an affair or lying, don't get me wrong. I'm not defending her actions. I just saying that you are a "broken dude" and she is a broken woman.

Leaving is the first step on a long journey, but leaving of itself won't find you happiness. Get back into counseling with a therapist who works on Family of Origin dynamics. Learn how to be the best version of yourself that you possibly can. Learn about attachment theory. Learn what healthy relationships look like. Learn to reparent yourself. Then, you be able to be in an authentic healthy relationship. It will take hard, difficult work, but it is possible, and I hope that knowing that gives you clarify and purpose.

I am sorry you have to go through this. No person deserves this indescribable pain. I understand you have regrets. There were many things I could have done better too in my marriage. I must have turned him down for sex a million times, I was too self conscious after baby weight. It seemed like a small thing, but it was many many years. But even if I had been better about stuff, I think there is a darkness in someone that can hurt you in this way and I just don’t think you could have prevented it. My husband is so good now. Kind, remorseful and loving. He has spent almost eight years now trying to make amends. He does everything possible to try to heal the wounds. But he was a hopeless jerk in the time he was having his affair. It was so cruel and he had to have known how much pain he was causing. I was literally on the ground begging him to end it for months. When he answers questions today about that time period it is clear I barely existed in his mind. And then he took seven years to really come clean. She does not seem to be very remorseful now but it is all still quite fresh it sounds like. Our MC said last week that infidelity creates a kind of madness and I think there’s some truth to that. So maybe your wife will get better. Who knows. But it seems to take years for that particular illness to go away. Take care of yourself. I don’t know if any of us get the full truth - it messes with your head. I try to remind myself that everyone has deep hardships (cancer, rape, foreclosure, loss of a child and on and on). But still, this is so so hard. I hope you get some peace tonight.

I just wanted to say I’m sorry you’re in so much pain. It’s so, so hard. You will get through this, and you’ll get to a better place.

Hi, Marine, I'm so sorry, I remember those early days where I could barely function.

You need to continue therapy. Gently, I think you are in a bit of denial about your wife. She drinks too much, she cheated, she constantly lies and she reconnected with AP, making up some ridiculous story, and she's manipulative. She is not your friend and IMO does not have your best interests at heart. Do you understand how alcoholics affect children? It could be a lifetime of pain.

This is your third d-Day, I fear there will be more. You stayed and tried and she blew up whatever progress you made. Please don't allow her to bring you down any more than she has already. You deserve happiness, not constant fear.

The reason it is so hard for you to let go is because when you met her and fell in love that’s ingrained in you now. I had a friend who was charming and funny, and just so much fun to be around until she wasn’t. She was the kind that if you did anything that got her angry She cut you off. I was one of her buddies until one day I inadvertently mentioned something we should do that she felt she had ownership of. So just like that I was persona non grata.

Your wife plays with you but not in a fun way. Sometimes even the most charming women and men are not good for us and they’re not kind people. Who knows why they get this way but generally it’s from their FOO. You can’t fix it, you cannot fix her. The only thing you can do is move on with your life.

Thank you all so much for all the responses. Made it through the night. It was a hard one, but I actually got pretty busy with quite a few things happening that I needed to address at work. Some nights are really slow, sometimes a lot more things happen. Most nights I enjoy getting easier money without a lot happening, just kind of standing watch and being here if needed. Last night I was thankful that I had to be a lot more active. I appreciate all your responses and the sense of "not being alone" that you all create.

I’m sorry you’re going through this marine. Your pain is evident. Just know that we hear you, and we care about you. I know I’m pretty new to this site, but I feel the anguish in your posts and wanted to say I’m sorry for what you’re going through. I hope you are able to find peace and happiness. I think you know what you need to do, it’s just hard taking the steps in that direction. Love is so hard, but it’s not supposed to hurt this much right? Take care of yourself.
BB

Blackbird,
I think you'll be able to understand an aspect of this that most people just don't have a frame of reference for. Warfare shapes a man in some very unusual ways, as I'm certain you've lived and experienced with your WH. Yeah, the pain is always real with infidelity and divorce. There's an added wrinkle when it's a WW who lived through that darkness with you. We didn't meet sometime down the road. We were married when I went into combat. I was one of the only married men in my unit (man in a loose sense, I was only 19 years old). She was six months pregnant when I deployed to Fallujah, and I came home to a six month old son I had never met. She worked with a gentleness and compassion and understanding to reintegrate me into a whole new world after I got back home. I left having been married under a year and still really being a kid who liked video games and playing ball and living like a big kid and having never even seen a dead body. I came home with a lot of trauma, to a wife and child and responsibility like I'd never even known. She didn't know what she was doing either. We learned together, and there were a lot of trials and demons that I wrestled with and she walked with me and still to this day is excellent in that capacity. I'm not sure I'm ever going to find another woman who would have that ability. It takes a special kind of woman to deal with some of the bullshit trauma that combat vets bring, as I'm sure you're very very well aware. Most people won't understand the fear of losing someone who's a rock for you in that sense, but also a wayward who does everything she can to hurt you in other ways and is trying to overcome addiction to boot. I think we're deeply trauma bonded, even though that may not be healthy. I'm sure it's not. But it's scary to think about being without her for all the myriad reasons that most people deal with. It's complicated even further and made more painful and scary to think that you'll never find another person who understands and accepts some of those "quirks" that my experiences have created in me.

Marine

On your original post I made the following comment:

Her addiction is the key issue IMHO. While using – not matter what that substance is, alcohol, prescription, weed, coke… - she is not capable of being a changed spouse.

You state she wants to reconcile, and in your original post you state you don’t see any other option but divorce.
Well… I gave you an outline of a plan that can give you resolution:
If she says she wants to reconcile then ask that she deals with her alcoholism. Tell her that all the marital issues can be dealt with IF she is in the mindset where the marital issues are key.
For now – and maybe the next 30-60 days don’t focus on the infidelity, on the state of the marriage or whatever. I recommended that you keep the divorce option very open but pace it to what is best for you. Focus on her sobriety.
Let me rephrase that: If you tell her something like this: "I don’t see any way for our marriage to be fixed while you are an active alcoholic" her response will probably be "I’m not an alcoholic" or "I can control my drinking". Well… based on what you share she is an alcoholic, but even with her denial then if she really wanted this marriage she would be fine with committing to total sobriety while you decide the best way forwards for you.

Marine, never apologize for coming here. Use this place as often as you need to. There is so much wisdom here.

I am with Bigger. If she cannot stop on her own she needs a 90 day in-house rehab. It used to be that 30 days was enough to help alcoholics but it isn’t. They know enough about the brain now to know that even with no alcohol in the brain it is still completely obsessed with it. It will be for a couple or three months so 90 days gets you past that enough to work towards the future.

I completely agree with Bigger and Cooley.

Reconciling with an active alcoholic is akin to Reconciling with an active cheater.

Reconciling a marriage requires the WS to reconcile with themselves and their underlying, most fundamental issues. This takes deep, honest introspection, clarity of thought-sobriety.

In the process of rooting out the underpinnings of their propensity to cheat you may also find the source, or a connection, a cofactor to their propensity to drink which can be a another form of escapism, analgesia-addiction.

Reconciliation is f..ing HARD. It’s an endurance marathon that takes years of monk like dedication and perseverance. Even the strongest most remorseful WS is challenged every step of the way. They have to fix themselves AND the marriage-simultaneously. Throw in alcoholism on top of all that…

BSs hang their hopes on consistent actions and honesty, above all. An active alcoholic is a labile mess who is constantly lying to themselves and others.

I think you’ll find that if she can control and overcome (note: that I did not say ‘cure’) her alcoholism and it’s causative factors, you may find that you’re halfway down the road to fixing the infidelity and other problems you two have probably experienced in your relationship.