SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

First post. So grateful to have found this site. So many posts have already helped me more than I can say.

First, I am a BW, married to my WH for 27 years and together for 30.

As a couple we have faced a lot of things together, including a devastating genetic disease neither knew we carried that has meant a life-shortening condition for our oldest child. Like a lot of couples with medicalized lives, we gave up a lot of things to ensure our children became healthy adults. Like a lot of mothers in this situation, I freely accept that I did not prioritize his needs—and he did not prioritize mine. But it is also true that there is a powerful trauma in our lives that no one else will ever truly understand.

About 6 years ago, when I hit menopause early, I also lost my sex drive. It came back, but not before my WH decided he was being rejected and I was just not attracted to him. Although I tried to explain what was happening to me, he did not believe me. He withdrew from me, started sleeping in his home office and became depressed. Starting 3 years ago, he became angry. Since I also have had experience with depression, I tried so hard to reach him. I felt like I was watching him drown and he would not take my hand.

He was so unhappy. So angry, and usually it was aimed at me. I asked him repeatedly if there was someone else. I told him I would give him a divorce if he truly believed it would make him happy—but that he should be sure he wanted to end things. I tried to share with him my experiences with how depression distorted thoughts and why therapy, specifically cognitive behavioral therapy, gave me the power to be happy (even as my marriage was falling apart. Every time I raised the idea of another woman, every time I created a space for him to come clean, he would stare me in the eye and tell me there was no one else. My heart believed he was a man of integrity who could never lie to me; my brain was less convinced.

Then, this December, his self destructive behavior manifested in a serious issue. I was there for him. I supported him because I realized this was a ‘hitting bottom’ moment—a chance to see past the fog and find his way back. That started to happen—emotionally and sexually. It was like I was seeing the man I fell in love with again.

Then I got an email at work email. It only said ‘your husband is a cheater’ the subject. the message was ‘you deserve happiness.’ Honestly, I convinced myself it was a phishing scam. The next week, there was another email, this one with a picture.

Turns out he was having an affair for 3 years—all those years he was so angry at me. He broke it off after he hit bottom, and she retailed by emailing me. He says. Though, he still loves her and is ‘uncertain.’

Now here is the heartbreaking part. I know this man better than anyone else knows him. As hurt as I am about the affair, and I am pretty devastated, I realize it was a result of 1) his poorly developed ability to process his own emotions, and 2) his emphasis on sex as the measure of love. However, for 2 years, I have been asking if there was someone else, telling him I cared more about truth and his happiness than the pain it would cause, and telling him I would listen if he wanted to talk about divorce of separation. Twice I confronted him saying I wasn’t stupid and new there was something going on, but that I wanted him to be honest. Always he denied.

That said, I do see a tremendous change in him since hitting bottom. It’s real, and it gives me hope we can reconcile with work and care.

Yet he is still in contact with her, although not sexually. He feels ‘romantic’ at times and he wants to be there to support her because ‘she’s having a tough time.’ At the same time, he is beginning to recognize that he has not only hurt me but violated his own values and integrity (something that has always been core to who he is). It’s like he is in limbo, and I just don’t know how to respond. If he can let her go, I believe we can not only reconcile, but work through things that will make us even stronger. He can do the work only he can do to let go of the thoughts in his own head that make him so unhappy. We can work on rebuilding the loving and supportive relationship we once had,

But we can do this only if he can let go of the fantasy of her and the ‘happiness’ he felt in escaping his own baggage for a while (and he does admit that it is partially that).

I also feel betrayed in ways that go beyond the sexual aspect. He exploited the best parts of me—that I see the best in people, that I believe people can get better and grow from their pain, and that I start always from radical empathy. He exploited my trust and my faith in his integrity. He violated something so much deeper than sex, and all because he can’t get over the sense that I rejected him. Three times he has agreed to counseling, only to backpedal. I have to know he is serious about rebuilding the trust he shattered.

I am not stupid. I see the red flags here. But after three weeks of a ‘brutal honesty’ policy I insisted on, I also see some reason to hope. My head screams caution and my heart is a reckless forgiver. I am trying to use the excellent advice on this site to find a balance—a way to built toward the best and prepare for the worst. Just hope I don’t lose my mind trying to walk that tightrope.

Welcome to SI. And I feel sorry for your situation and the nightmare you are going through. You will get very sound and helpful advices from people here. There is a popular saying on this website- take what you need and leave the rest. Only you know what is helpful for you and what is not. So, you don't have to take every advice that is given to you from people here. But people here speaks from collective wisdom and years of personal experience. So, they might give you some real helpful advices. So, please listen to different opinions and advices that come your way and only take those that are helpful to you.

Coming to your situation, let me be very clear his affair has nothing to do with you or your menopause. Period. So, never ever ever take any kind of blame on you. If sex is the measure of love for him then his sexual relation with his AP should also be considered as the measure of his love for her. I don't believe he has hit rock bottom. If he had then he would see what he has done, what he had become and first thing he would do is confess his indiscretion to you on his own and then would go for unforced NC with his AP indefinitely. He hasn't done any of this. You gave him plenty of opportunities to come clean. Yet he never confessed. This is not the sign of a person who has hit rock bottom. I request you not to hold on to any hope. As long as he is in contact with her the affair continues. As long as affair continues there is no hope. He is giving you hopium to string you along as long as possible. This doesn't give hope for any kind of reconciliation with him. He should realize this. You should realize this.

You sound like a lovely and loving person and I am so sorry you are going through this.

But think about this; if it weren't for his AP writing to you, you would never have known about his affair. (Or at least he would never have admitted it. It sounds like you've "known" inside yourself for quite some time.) If you don't have someone who is willing to be honest with you, (unless he is caught) then what do you have?

I know you want to have hope, but he will have to put in the work as well.

There will be people coming along to give you step by step advice. I just wanted you to know that we are here, and that you truly are not alone.

Yet he is still in contact with her, although not sexually. He feels ‘romantic’ at times and he wants to be there to support her because ‘she’s having a tough time.’ At the same time, he is beginning to recognize that he has not only hurt me but violated his own values and integrity (something that has always been core to who he is).

I can really relate to over-empathizing. There's actually a good book called, Unhealthy Helping by Shawn Burns which helped me to see that I wasn't always doing people favors by being understanding. It was a pretty easy read too, so I do recommend it.

Here's the bottom line though... if this was you, having an affair for THREE YEARS and then refusing to stop contact with the AP, he wouldn't be one iota confused about how to feel about that. Empathy is basically walking that proverbial mile in the other guy's shoes. It doesn't require superhuman leaps. It's not a two-way street for your WH because HE IS SELFISH. You're agonizing over a selfish person who won't put in the most basic of efforts with you.

If you had treated him this way, betrayed his trust, lied to his face for years, given to some other man what had been promised only to him, he wouldn't be just "beginning to recognize" the hurt he's caused you. If he had been afflicted with ED and couldn't perform the way he had, would he understand that you just got it somewhere else for three years?

My situation was similar to yours in a lot of ways, particularly the poor treatment. My fWH was so hateful toward me. He had painted a bullseye on my forehead where all his dissatisfaction and angst were targeted. Anything and everything in life that didn't go his way was MY fault and I was no longer deserving of his fidelity or his honestly. When dday came, I told him I was divorcing him and I didn't even want to know the details. I was DONE. He gave me a pathetic hangdog look and agreed it was for the best, then trotted off to text his latest OW. Within a week though, it was him asking me for time, time to prove himself, which of course, he screwed up and got caught trying to "let her down gently". At that point, he had about thirty seconds to decide if he was going to be "all in" or "all out". He wasn't going to have both because I wasn't going to let him have it both ways.

It's not that they can't decide. They just don't want to.

You might not have a say in whether your WH ever gets his act together and regains some semblance of integrity. But you do have a say as to whether a man who gets to be married to YOU must be an honest and decent man. You deserve that, and only YOU can enforce that boundary.

I'm sorry you're going through this. I am triggered by his feelings of wanting to let her down gently because she's having a rough time. I'm sorry - but when he was engaged in a 3 year affair, where was his empathy towards you? He was so willing to lie to you, deceive you, conceal the A, hurt you - and didn't think twice about what he was doing or what this would do to your faith and trust in him. She's having a hard time? As a BW I don't CARE about the AP one iota. And HE should be more invested in YOUR feelings than hers at this point. He needs to go NC immediately - no wavering, no wishy washy attitude - it's like ChamomileTea says - either he's all in or he's not. There's no in between - he has to be full on NC in order for you to forge a path towards reconciliation. My H had his A in 2012 - there's so many layers to my story - but basically my H had his rock bottom sitting in a jail cell facing a DV charge; that was the moment he was ready to fight for us AND that was when I laid out all my demands - and I had A LOT of them. No Contact was non-negotiable - there would be no path forward if he was still stringing OW along w/ false hope. He needed to cut ties with OW, he needed to cut ties with every single person - including friends, family, acquaintances - that helped in the deception, anyone who helped conceal or lie for him while he was in the middle of this A. ANYONE who played a role in helping to facilitate his A was gone from our lives. He deleted all his social media accounts and messaging apps, he changed his phone number and got a new phone. He wasn't in place to bargain for anything - he had to do these things in order for me to see that he was serious and that he was ALL IN to work on reconciliation. I thought we were doing good - it has been over 10 years since the A, and then in December 2022 I found out that he had reached out to an old childhood family friend and was texting her flirty compliments for about a weeks time. When I found the texts, I told him he had to go full NC - and then I proceeded to expose him and her to our family and friends. I find that embarrassment and humiliation is an effective tool with the OW. She was humiliated and ashamed and reached out to me begging my forgiveness. It NC for a reason - I won't give her the satisfaction of responding. My anger is not misplaced - my H is the one who sought her out for validation, affirmation, compliments - so he's the culpable one. HOWEVER, I am angry at her too because she was supposed to be our friend. And friends don't do that to one another ESPECIALLY when she was around and knew what happened to us in 2012. WE are back in IC and he's working on things he needs to work on to be a better, safer, partner for me. Bottom line - your H needs to be doing everything he can do to make sure he's a safe partner, he needs to come clean about everything to you. A man with true honor and integrity will have no problems doing that for you. And as long as he's in contact with the AP - there's no hope for reconciliation. I wish you the best. No one wants to be in this club - but it's a damn good place to be to work through betrayal pain. There are many seasoned veterans on this site who will be along with advice - take what you need and leave the rest. Good luck to you.

BB

[This message edited by Blackbird25 at 4:46 PM, Saturday, February 18th]

You might not have a say in whether your WH ever gets his act together and regains some semblance of integrity. But you do have a say as to whether a man who gets to be married to YOU must be an honest and decent man. You deserve that, and only YOU can enforce that boundary.

Chamomile Tea nailed it.

As usual.

Some thoughts and questions that I hope will help....

I, too, see tremendous overlap between love, desire, and sex, but I didn't cheat.

One way to circumvent your excessive empathy is to think about your requirements for R and your requirements for M. I expect that at least dow deep, you know that continued contact with the ap makes it much more likely that the A can restart, so NC has to be a requirement.

What others do you have?

*****

'Excessive empathy' might mean you are co-dependent. I suggest reading at least some of Co-Dependent No More to see if the description fits for you. If it does - maybe even if it doesn't - there are ways to change to be your own person.

*****

I knew I wanted to R from the moment my W revealed her A. But I separated what I wanted from what I would actually do. I wanted R, but I didn't choose R until I felt confident that my W would continue to do the work of changing from cheater to good partner.

What is your WS willing to do to make that change?

As long as he is still in contact with OW, then he is still actively in the affair. And as long as the affair continues, you can’t think about reconciling.

Based on the timeline you’ve provided, I actually think his anger and resentment toward you was the RESULT of his affair, not necessarily the cause. He needed to put that emotional and physical distance between you in order to justify what he was doing.

Similarly, I don’t think his reconnection with you caused the demise of his affair; more likely, the affair was going sour, which made him feel the need to reconnect with you. I’m sure that he also made a lot of promises to OW that he reneged on, hence why she tried to force his hand by putting him and why he still feels emotionally obligated to her.

Simply put, you need to make it clear that if he wants the OW in his life, then he can’t have you as his wife. You can’t stitch a wound while the knife is in your back.

Thank you to all for your responses. I have chosen to not yet talk to many people about this, and it means a great deal to have a place I can speak and be heard.

I agree with much of what you all have said. Sometimes having other people mirror your words back helps you see more clearly. Here are some more specific responses:

1) While I know that the affair is not my fault, and even that I was very good about communicating with him about the ways menopause was affecting me, I am being emotionally impacted by his statements that constantly focus on how rejected he was feeling. I need to be very clear about pushing back on that logic when I hear it. That's a note I will take to heart, so thanks LurkingSoul12!

2) ChamomileTea, you are right about the tendency to selfishness. There has always been a yin and yang part to our marriage. When it worked, we created balance. I've been trying to set before him exactly the sort of reversed situation so he cannot escape the fact that his choice was a selfish and childish response to a real challenge in our marriage. Of course, we both know I would never have chosen as he did. The fact that the challenge was real does not mean the choice was justified. It was not only selfish, but also deeply self-destructive.

2)I do not believe I am co-dependent, but I truly appreciate the warning. My empathy is framed by a pretty strong self-concept and something that is part of who I am in my career. Outside of this particular crisis, I understand and do protect my boundaries, but only because I learned the hard way. I am also pretty fiercely independent, and I have the resources and the plan should I decide on divorce. While I am (of course) struggling with the doubts and the insecurities this raises, I have worked for years to have the self-love to separate those feelings out and see them for what they are. I have a daily mantra: I am my own anchor, and I will weather what is to come. When the storm passes, I will be here. It got me though the years of anger that were, as I know realize, projections of his guilt about the affair.

3) He is doing some of the work he needs to do and doing it willingly, but I think what your posts are helping me name is that his work is limited as long as he keeps that door open to the fantasy. Ironically, in our discussion today, it became clear (to both of us) that she is really a version of me before the weight and the guilt of our child's genetic disease and how that changed how we lived our lives. He even said he was emotionally 18--and he has not grown and matured emotionally the way he should have. Yet Blakcbird25, BluerthanBlue and ChamomileTea are right; it is up to me to set the boundary for NC as a precondition for reconciliation. I have said that, but I think that I need to be absolutely clear that I am utterly willing to choose divorce if he cannot commit to reconciliation. It is true. I would rather a divorce than a third person in my marriage. I have a conversation planned for later today and I will lay that out clearly.

Finally, I just read the amazing post on this thread about the "fog" of the WS and defense mechanisms. It is like a lifeline to me. It has a paragraph that describes my spouse exactly, and I am going to ask him to read and reflect on it. While he says he is not trying to justify his affair, that is what he is doing. It is a defense mechanism because there really is no way to reconcile his choice with his self-concept. If he wants a future with me, he has to be willing to let go of his defenses and be as vulnerable as he has made me.

Again, it has been so helpful to write this all down and speak to someone other than him about this.

[This message edited by RecklessForgiver at 8:35 PM, Saturday, February 18th]

Hi RecklessForgiver

I wrote this before your last post. You addressed a lot of it, but I thought I’d share anyway.

First I’m so sorry this has happened to you. Intimate betrayal is one of the most traumatic destabilizing experiences in life, especially after so many years of marriage. Nothing prepares you for the overwhelming emotional pain, beyond reason or control, coming from some primitive part of your psyche which feels it’s very existence is threatened. It took me years to work through it. Remember to be kind to yourself and give yourself grace.

After so many years of marriage you believe you know your husband, but you don’t. The man in front of you is not at all who you believed him to be. He is a dangerous deranged selfish stranger wearing your husbands face, who divorced you in his mind without having the courage or the respect for you to let you know, so you can’t treat him like he is the man of integrity who you trusted to protect you and your family. At this point, his thinking is so distorted that he is not worthy of your trust or your forgiveness. You have to protect yourself. You deserve an honest man who loves only you. It’s up to him if he wants to become that man again.

He didn’t make the choice to have an affair because of anything you did or didn’t do, or because of problems in your marriage or family. Poor quality marriages lead to divorce. Poor quality people lead to affairs. Affairs are two people of poor character trying to get flattered, people who are so selfish that they don’t care who gets hurt as long as they get their dopamine hit of flattery. That is who he is. He can change, but he has to really want to, and you can’t do it for him. Right now, by choosing to still being in contact with the AP, he is choosing to be a man who is not good enough for you. You would never feel safe in a marriage with the man that he is now. Consider telling him to write a no contact letter for you to review before sending it if he wants any chance of saving the marriage I didn’t do this. I regretted it an I believe it delayed my healing. Ask him why you would ever want to spend the rest of your years on this earth with a man who wasn’t able to tell his AP that he loved you too much to ever have contact with her again.

So, like you said, you need to prepare for the worst, and by doing so, knock him off the fence. People here say you have to be willing to lose a marriage in order to save a marriage. Have a plan in the event he is unable to pull his head out of his butt. See a lawyer or three, not because you want to divorce, but because he may leave you no choice. He has not hit rock bottom. There’s always a trap door, and by keeping in contact with his AP he is going even lower. Consider letting his whole family know, (and hers too, if you can.) Let him experience the consequences of going lower through that trap door by facing the loss of respect, and the real possibility of the loss of his family. If you can, rally those who love you around you for support. You can’t be the strong one all the time.

Do not show him this site. This is your safe place.

Sharing this site with a foggy,unremorseful WS is a huge mistake.

If he has any sense at all,he knows he has to drop her,before he can even attempt reconciliation. You don't need to prove that to him.

Many bs have made the mistake of showing their unremorseful WS this site. It ends up either being used against them,or the WS learns how to fake remorse,and the BS finds themselves in false R. Even worse, the WS shares the site, and their BS'S posts with the OW.

It took a long, long time for my H to finally reach the conclusion that HIS affair was not my fault. It came from a place of deep insecurities, poor impulse control, lack of boundaries, selfishness, a thinking that the world owed him something - all flawed characteristic traits of his own doing. And things that he needed to work on. We couldn’t work on the marriage until after we worked on our own shit. And trust me, I had issues too. One thing that my H values is integrity, honor, respect - all things that he demanded of his soldiers on his team. Ironic that the very things he demanded of his men didn’t pass the smell test in his own life. He was a master at compartmentalizing his "work (soldier) self" and his "husband self". He would say that if his troops didn’t innately possess these traits, they were a liability in the field - literally it could mean you either made it home alive, or you came home in a body bag. But he didn’t honor our marriage when he was at home - he lacked boundaries, he craved the attention that the OW gave him - all the "you’re my KISA" bullshit, "you’re so amazing", "you hero you".

In Dec 2022 when I found his texts, I had just completed a full year of menopause. I know there were physiological changes happening to me - but I never thought *that* was the reason he would seek outside validation and someone to stroke his fragile ego. I was pissed - he should have TOLD me how he was feeling. And to be fair, I wasn’t exactly rejecting him. It went both ways - he just decided that he would go seek affirmation outside the marriage - someone to tell him that yes, you still got it going on.

ALL this to say, you’re WORTH more than this. You’re more than an afterthought and as married partners, you shouldn’t have to feel like you’re in competition with someone else. Know. Your. Worth. Honestly I KNOW what I bring to the table. If he’s not interested in what I’m serving, I’m gone.

Keep posting and sharing with us how your doing. I spent a month reading through the healing library and a ton of other posts before I felt brave enough to make my first post. The people here possess a lot of wisdom - and for that I’m grateful. I feel so much stronger than I did two months ago. When I found his texts, I felt re-traumatized and all those feelings from 2012 of dread, loss, pain, sadness, helplessness, fear etc all came rushing back. I am sleeping better, I’m back in IC and that’s helping so much.

BB

Poor quality marriages lead to divorce. Poor quality people lead to affairs. Affairs are two people of poor character trying to get flattered, people who are so selfish that they don’t care who gets hurt as long as they get their dopamine hit of flattery. That is who he is. He can change, but he has to really want to, and you can’t do it for him.

OMG. I love this, Sadwife53. This is so spot on. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Also, to be clear: I did not share this site with him; I cut and pasted two articles into a word document, printed that, and told them they came from an online support space that was helping me, and that it was my safe space that he was not welcome to access. I totally do not want him anywhere near here!

However, I came across this passage from Ser. Jr., reposted by ThriveNotSurvive. It was a lightening bolt because in my core of my being, I KNOW this describes his affair, as well as the reasons he isolated from me and expressed so much anger throughout the affair. This is one of the things I asked him to read (its part of a larger essay about defense mechanisms). I asked him to read it (well, the cut and pasted printout) and think about it in preparation for a further discussion.

In the case of romantic infidelity, this dissonance begins right from the initial stages of attraction to the other person and grows in proportion to the sliding past the healthy boundaries of a marriage. As they begin sharing common interests, it slides into mental comparisons between the betrayed spouse and the affair partner. The affair partner begins to meet the emotional needs of the wayward spouse as walls are put up to prevent the betrayed spouse from connecting. As the attraction builds, so does the deceit in the form of secrets from the betrayed spouse, and minimization of their behavior (e.g. ‘harmless flirting’). Excuses are found to continue the behavior and eventually as a romantic relationship evolves their perception of reality suffers from self-delusion. Romantic infidelity involves the temporary insanity/irrationality associated with "falling in love". This does not typically happen when you meet an incredible person, but more as a response to a crisis or stressful period (such as a death, job loss, birth of a child, or even the unexpected mundane ness of life). They are in a situation in which they must face a lot of harsh reality and grow up. To temporarily relieve their feelings of depression they will be attracted to people with more problems so that they can feel better in relation and as being needed. The more stable and supportive the betrayed spouse is of the marriage and wayward spouse, the more the wayward spouse will feel alienated towards them. An escape from everyday life is sought and manifests itself in uncharacteristic acts of carelessness that allows a platonic relationship to cross the boundary into an affair. They will attach too much significance to the affair and rationalize that the emotions are so powerful they must be real enough to risk their stability for and have already devalued the betrayed spouse in anticipation.

Funnily enough, reading through that article on defense mechanisms was really helpful in terms of identifying the things I am doing to cope—totally compartmentalizing and intellectualizing! But I trust my own ability to grow from this, whatever comes. What I need to remember, and what I appreciate all of you reminding me of, is that I only control my own growth. He is responsible for what he chooses to do with what this has done to his life.

Again, its such a relief to feel there is a place I can speak openly while I recover enough to decide what I want next. I am taking to heart the advice I found on this site that you have to recover before you can even consider whether or not you can reconcile. I think I rushed myself to feeling I had to decide, when what I need is to heal first.

I gave myself 6-month increments. It took me 18 months to see that XWH wasn't doing the work to be a safe partner. Then, he crossed a hard boundary (no inappropriate contact with another person), and I tapped out. He was never going to change. I knew I did everything in my power to try. Others said they would not have done what I did, even his sister who was so incredibly supportive during this time.

My XWH is a diagnosed covert narc, so I listened to a lot of YouTube videos by Dr. Ramani. She said that your brain can be so overwhelmed that you literally can't think. Give yourself grace during this time because it's a wild ride.

Thanks for sharing that, Leafields.

It is definitely a wild ride.

I have told him that the next 6 months are a time to focus on recovery and exploration--of what happened and of who we are now. Then we can decide on what comes next.

I asked him to read a printout of the essay "What Every WS Needs to Know" (first boxing out anything that identified this site by name or url). He read it and then told me he had already blocked AP's number after our last conversation-- but did not tell me. He then showed me his phone so I could see it was true. Last night, when he got two phone alerts at 3:30 a.m., he unlocked the phone and handed it to me. They were weather alerts. He then showed me his text history.

It's a place to start, but not yet with reconciliation. That is what I need to focus on, I think. First, we have to recover, understand, and unpack. Then he and I both have our own, individual choice to make. To reconcile, we have to both be all in, and we can't know that while we are hurting this badly.

RF, You have received so much good advice— re-read often.

My story is VERY similar to yours. My XWH was 10 years older and going through some health issues that sent him, a super fitness and nutrition freak/functioning alcoholic, into a tailspin.t I become the punching bag, figuratively. The anger and resentment toward me was relentless and I knew something was very very wrong. I gave him so so many chances to tell me. I made his world as stress free as possible, even finding a doctor to solve one of his health issues. I even helped him plan getaways to help clear his mind… he took AP on those with him while telling me he was alone. . But he was spiraling down and I was desperate to save him. Finally, I found out about his 18 month A (he did not confess), Like others have said, I thought he was at rock bottom. He dropped 30 pounds from a thin frame ( we both dropped huge amounts of weight from the trauma), cried continuously, begged me to help him. But he also kept in touch with the AP, told me he was "conflicted" and trickle truthed the worst of his actions. It took a year for me to finally walk away, but at 3 months I told my family and forced him to tell his. (He tells or I tell). For me, this helped me show a) I was serious, and b) gave me resoluteness that he do the REAL work 100% or I will D. I should have walked out 6 weeks later, but I am a slow learner, apparently. The net: He is unoriginal in his issues and his shitty coping. Don’t trust he is at rock bottom until he starts VOLUNTARILY seeking the answers on why he did what he did and starts working at change.

meanwhile, take care of you,
1) STD testing
2) get exercise daily( walks are great), eat healthy food, drink lots of water, and avoid alcohol. This helps your body and your mind — trauma is hard on both.
3) See a few lawyers to under the full picture of D. This is not to file, but to be sure you know what ducks to get into a row and make sure you know what you need to know to protect yourself and your finances. Knowledge is power.
4) Find an IC with trauma experience. You need support and a good IC is an excellent place to work through this shitshow and help you decide what is best for you. Also consider another IRL person— SI is amazing, but an IRL support is really helpful. Mother, sister, bestie, pastor,.. someone who will support you whether you R or D.
5) Scroll back a bunch of pages in the JFO forum and read all the posts with bullseyes on them. They are great reading along with the healing library. Especially read any posts about the difference between regret and remorse- it’s imperative for a true shot at R.

Lstly, remember YOU are the prize. And you will get through this. You sound very level-headed, but this is the shittiest ride at the worst amusement park ever, and there will be good days, bad days, and brutal days. Stay the course…

Thanks, BarelyBreathing.

I have a surgery this week, but I am thinking I will set up a consult with a lawyer next week. Fortunately, I have a good friend who is well connected to the legal community around us. Better safe than sorry and unprepared.

I am so sorry you have had to meet us in this way. This is a great site and you will get a lot of advice. And as you have already been told, take what you need and leave the rest (for now - you may find later you are more open to some of the heavier lifting as I was).

My WH had a very difficult time "giving up" his AP - unlike your WH mine did it by taking things underground, getting caught, and then doing it again, and hiding his ongoing communication with her. In my WHs case the ongoing communication quickly turned into a resuming of the romantic aspect of his A - but in all honesty, the continued communication in ANY way was - and in your case IS - a continuation of the affair, whether he is being sexual with her or not. Period. So, what you have is someone who wants YOU to remain in limbo while they allegedly decide. CT was correct in saying this:

It's not that they can't decide. They just don't want to.

My WH (who has now had 3 years of therapy post discontinuing the A) has admitted those exact words to me numerous time. He did not stop because he did not want to - which means, he wanted to stop hurting me less than he wanted to make a decision about where he was going to go. My role in this was: I LET HIM keep not having to choose by sticking around. One of my biggest regrets is that I did not make his choice for him and remove myself from "contention" for his affections sooner.

When you remove yourself from this little pick me game (that almost all of us BSs play on some level post affair) and not allow him to continue getting his ego stroked by knowing that you can demolish someone and they will wait for you anyway (because they must be so great) he will no longer hold all the cards anymore, What you decide to do after that is up to you, but please for your own sanity, do not tolerate this. I have yet to see it work in a BSs favor. Every minute you allow him to continue this limbo the more damage it does to YOU, and you need to look out for you right now.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 11:27 PM, Sunday, February 19th]

Here is a fun update:

Apparently, he documented all of his texts and encounters with her. Just found them–a bundle of papers and receipts wrapped around boxes of condoms. They were in a drawer in his office. On top of the drawer? Stacks and stacks of memorabilia of our kids.

Classy.

It's been interesting reading, to say the least. Also very explicit. If I ever needed proof that men in affairs think with their cocks and mistake endorphins and oxytocin for love, I would have enough here for a dissertation.

Poor boy. She was not faithful to him, even though he loved her so. She had a boyfriend of her own... who was not faithful to her.

It's so sordid. He was clearly playing the white knight, the good guy who wanted better for her (and he was the path to better, of course).

I have not told him I found them, but I did digitize them all and add them to my records of his affair.

I need to recover. Recover first. Also meet with a lawyer. And clearly test myself for STIs.

I hope they provide the information you need. Can't really say I'm glad you found the info because of the circumstances. Sorry it exists in the first place.