SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

^^^ Agreed! Furthermore, if you keep pushing him, will this become a new point of resentment for him? Does your WH have a history of acting out due to built up resentments instead of talking through them and could this contribute it? Would this further enable a parent/child dynamic between the two of you? There's nothing wrong with wanting better for him but unfortunately it doesn't sound like he's in a place to benefit from being pushed. Your good deeds could later turn into more dysfunctional behavior from him. Not your fault if it does but if he's not willing to do the work necessary to handle these issues in a healthy manner, the last thing you need is a bigger headache down the road.

OwningItNow & nekonamida

Why do I keep falling into this trap? At this point I should be able to see it! You're both right. I am not responsible for his relationship with his children and if it isn't important enough for him to "do the work", then it's his loss. I am proud of the work I've done throughout their lives to have these relationships.

I have to come back to my own healing and my own happiness. It has always made me happy to do for others, but you're both right, it's taking too much out of my cup without it being refilled and I need to stop. Why is this so hard? I don't think of myself as "trying to fix" him because I KNOW he is the one that needs to work on himself, so, why? I suppose this is more info to talk to my therapist about. I have always found it difficult to put myself first and take care of myself

I guess there is more work to do, a LOT more, for myself. Thank you for giving me the kick in butt to stop trying to "push" him when he doesn't want to be pushed.

Maybe you just want the best for your kids. Nothing wrong with that.

I think you know he has to make the effort and start down that path.

I have always found it difficult to put myself first and take care of myself

Me too!!!! Being good to others is second nature to me, but instead of attracting people who want to be good to me in return, I attract needy people who say, "Well, thanks very much! Don't mind if I do!" as they avail themselves of all my assistance, attention, time, and worry while I am left feeling completely depleted.

You are a good person, Fournlau. It's not about being "bad" to anyone but about pulling back to be good to you. Worrying about someone who doesn't worry even 1/3 as much about himself steals so much time and energy from your own life. Keep that time and energy for you and do things that energize you! And fulfill you.

Yesterday I was tapped out! Empty! And I was crabby and stressed with work and home. I thought, "You have not done anything for yourself lately. What would you enjoy?" And then I had an idea. "I need to see a good movie. I need a huge popcorn with extra butter and a wild cherry slushie!" This is NOT my norm. Can't even remember the last time I did anything like this. Off I went to see the Nike movie, Air, because I had heard good things. I sat alone in the theater and ate my popcorn, drank my slushie, and smiled along with the feel good movie. (I am an 80s girl, so it triggered some fond memories.) I was literally a different person when I walked out of that movie! It was just the pick-me-up and space that I needed.

But I had to remind myself to do something good for me. It will never be second nature. Just keep learning those boundaries and putting that energy into you--whatever you enjoy. We get better with practice!

Sounds like you had a good conversation and he is too lazy to make the incremental changes to improve his relationships.

OwningItNow

Me too!!!! Being good to others is second nature to me, but instead of attracting people who want to be good to me in return, I attract needy people who say, "Well, thanks very much! Don't mind if I do!" as they avail themselves of all my assistance, attention, time, and worry while I am left feeling completely depleted.

This seems to be the case for me as well. I try to see the good in people always and sometimes feel as if I have been taken advantage of. My WH's A almost broke me of this kindness. I learned long ago that if I get taken advantage of (as in I give someone money who says they need it-$20 or so, I'm not stupid-whether they truly need it or not is none of my business. I gave because I am kind and empathetic towards others. Yes, sometimes it bites me in the butt, but I don't want to change this part of me, even now.

Guys before my WH were also takers. I was only good enough as long as they could take from me. As soon as I was empty, they bailed. Honestly, so did my WH early on in our M (we rugswept that one-full story in my biro). I should have divorced him then but I was too young and scared since we had 2 toddler girls.

I had to finally admit to myself that WH is also a taker and will take if I let him. He is trying to be a better man, a man he says I deserve, but the going is slow.

This0is0Fine

Sounds like you had a good conversation and he is too lazy to make the incremental changes to improve his relationships.

It's very much "woe es me" (however you spell that) and of course it stirs me to try and help. It's a little more subtle that when he tries the puppy dog little boy look to get his way. I have learned to recognize that and I no longer react to it. In fact, I call him on it as a manipulation tactic. I did bring up his selfishness and that it had something to do with the way he treats the kids, and his lack of empathy. But again, I can't MAKE him do better. As others have said, I need to take care of me and my health. It's just really hard when I've spent over 30 years taking care of others and not asking for anything. Even my daughter told me to ask when I needed it, and to take it when offered. If I've done nothing else in my life, I am so proud to have raised such kind and empathetic children.

If the subject presents itself again, or if you just want to bring it up yourself, I would approach it in this way:

"A bank is not all that you are to us, but in some ways, it seems like that is what YOU have chosen, not what WE have chosen. And you have every ability to be so much more to us, but it will take a commitment on your part."

Like, put the ball in his court. Because it seems to me that the way he presented it to you, that you all were the ones thinking of him, or behaving toward him badly. Maybe, if you let him see that changing his approach to his family could, over time, change the dynamic.

I know it’s easier said than done because I have faced this with my husband. Once we were doing a couples workshop, and the task was to draw a picture of how you saw your life with your family in the next five years. When I look back on this, I can’t even believe it, but my husband drew, two mountains, one just above the other. On the one mountain was him, alone. On the other mountain was me playing with the three small children (at the time).

When I asked him about what the picture meant, he said that he felt like he was separate from us. Exactly like the picture showed. That it was always me and the kids just out of his reach. I never understood this because the kids and I were ALWAYS reaching out for him to come and be closer to us. But when he finally did, the kids didn’t notice it right away, which encouraged him to just give up on it I guess.

I hope you can help your husband get rid of some of that separation that he seems to feel, even if it is by his own doing. Because if we are trying to heal a family, who is at fault for the problems should not be the main emphasis, but how to fix it.

IMHO

Good luck to you.

It's difficult having a conversation with him sometimes because he never thinks he's wrong and will try to "fix" things when I just want to vent

God, this is exactly me. I'm trying to be better about asking if she wants my input or just a friendly ear.

But the thing about guys like us is that we probably wouldn't bring up something like this unless we wanted help fixing it. We don't assume that people talk to us about a problem just to vent so it's usually fair to assume that we're not just venting if we bring something up.

His resistance to doing the work of getting better sounds like depression to me. That's kind of exactly how it is for me; I deny that I'm depressed so I don't do something to fix it.

Maybe you can focus on some simple solution-focused ideas to help him improve his parental relationships? Some ideas purely off the top of my head:

1. Give him some conversation prompts for the next family gathering.

2. Send him a text message every couple days with a short "family download." He feels disconnected so hook him up!

3. You said he's into "computer games" but that covers a pretty wide area. Does he enjoy anything multiplayer? Or are there other interests of his that you could base a family event around? People are always more interesting when they're confidently in their element. Do you think he might enjoy a game that mixes computer gaming with more traditional games? There's a game on Steam called Keep Talking and No One Explodes where one person is at the computer defusing a bomb and the other players are explaining how to defuse it with the manual. The player with the computer can't see the manual and the players with the manual can't see the bomb. It's a...blast...

I think some or all of those things could really be a wake up call for him. Show him that right now isn't forever and even little things that require virtually no effort can lead to little improvements. Good luck!

Ok, so, it seems that there are two views on this subject as shared by some of you.

1. His relationship with his children is his responsibility and I don't need to expend my energy in trying to "fix" it.

2. While his relationship is his responsibility I can help by accommodating more palatable interactions and keeping him informed
of familial occurrences.

There's a lot more to those but essentially it boils down to these definitions.

After spending time thinking about this and pondering, I'm falling into category 1. The suggestions by BobTheBuilder:

1. Give him some conversation prompts for the next family gathering.

2. Send him a text message every couple days with a short "family download." He feels disconnected so hook him up!

3. You said he's into "computer games" but that covers a pretty wide area. Does he enjoy anything multiplayer? Or are there other interests of his that you could base a family event around? People are always more interesting when they're confidently in their element.

are things I already do (except the giving him prompts, he doesn't have an issue with having conversations with them, just doesn't ever have an in depth conversations because they make him uncomfortable-even when it's me and the kids having those conversations, he'll leave or try to change the subject, he gets physically uncomfortable).

We play D&D every week and he whole heartedly participates because he loves it. He can have an hours long conversation about the races and classes, what gear or magic items are better, which multiclass has the best stats, etc. etc. These interactions are easy for him and we all have fun doing it. But try and get him to go to something he's not interested in, forget it. If he was physically here he would go to graduations (military so for two of our kids he was TDY). But I can't tell you the last time he went to any other kind of function, even if he was available. Like I said before, he would usually make up an excuse and the kids and I stopped asking him. He actually coached soccer one year for our oldest son and went to most games (he would even leave work early for some), but once our son stopped being interested in it and quit, that was the end of WH's interest as well.

Basically, if it was going to inconvenience him, he'd rather not.

I also keep him in the loop with anything major going on with the kids, I have been doing this since the first one was born! I do remember him going to a handful of doctor's appointments when the first two were very young, but after the "Panama" incident, there was distance. I know I was responsible for some of that, but that only deals with our marital relationship, not the kids.

Pondering the last conversation we had, when I offered the idea that it wasn't too late and that he could change the dynamics of his relationship with them, he backpaddled, saying that well, he didn't ALWAYS feel that way, and that he was OK with knowing that they knew he would always be there for them if they ever really needed him, and was in fact CONTENT with the status Quo. It more and more seems like he just wanted to be seen as the victim, even though the dynamic is of his own making. Much like his disappointment of our lackluster bedroom. It took 2-3 years after the end of the A and almost a year of real IC for him to realize that my lack of interest had more to do with his treatment of me than whether or not I was still in love with him and sexually attracted to him. But while he's interested in rebuilding our relationship, he doesn't seem to have the desire to do the work for his kids.

Am I making sense? I feel like maybe I'm complicating things.

Anyway, at this point I know I am the conduit he uses to KNOW his kids. If we were to separate (or something happen to me), the kids would try to stay connected, but knowing WH, he wouldn't respond in kind and they would probably gradually drop off and he would be alone. He has said so himself in MC. So he knows, but won't lift a finger to change things. And what use is there in beating one's head against a stubborn wall?

So he's a selfish, narcissistic jerk who feels sorry for himself but blames everyone else? And a lousy father who makes excuses to avoid doing anything he doesn't want to do, including things for his own children?

They are disconnected from him because he does not care about them and they know it. It's not like he WANTS TO CHANGE! He doesn't. He wants the rest of you to change, and that is WRONG! Do not teach your kids to cater to a selfish narcissist unless you want them to marry one. Do you want to watch that? This is not your kids' issue to fix, and I wish my family had been healthy enough to tell me this instead of insisting that I try to make my self-centered mother happy. It completely skewed my understanding of healthy balance and boundaries.

You can't fix selfish jerks. I'm trying to figure out why you want to be married to one, but regardless, let your kids have their boundaries with him. He does not deserve their effort! Their boundaries with their father are completely appropriate.

If I was you, I'd probably try to support them more. "Your dad is a jerk. Sorry."

It must be hard to be a person who gets physically uncomfortable having a conversation with your family about something you are not interested in.

I think you are a very understanding person to continue to try to make allowances for him.

I have one child who is addicted to fishing. Just loved it from the time he was 5. Guess what? My H goes fishing with him all the time. It’s a great bond.

So sorry your H is missing out. But it’s his choice to miss out. He can change the dynamics but he chooses not to. For whatever reason.

OwningItNow

So he's a selfish, narcissistic jerk who feels sorry for himself but blames everyone else? And a lousy father who makes excuses to avoid doing anything he doesn't want to do, including things for his own children?

They are disconnected from him because he does not care about them and they know it. It's not like he WANTS TO CHANGE! He doesn't. He wants the rest of you to change, and that is WRONG! Do not teach your kids to cater to a selfish narcissist unless you want them to marry one. Do you want to watch that? This is not your kids' issue to fix, and I wish my family had been healthy enough to tell me this instead of insisting that I try to make my self-centered mother happy. It completely skewed my understanding of healthy balance and boundaries.

You can't fix selfish jerks. I'm trying to figure out why you want to be married to one, but regardless, let your kids have their boundaries with him. He does not deserve their effort! Their boundaries with their father are completely appropriate.

If I was you, I'd probably try to support them more. "Your dad is a jerk. Sorry."

So, this is always my worry. Not making things clear or presenting an unfinished picture. My WH is most assuredly selfish, often an AH, and I have recently felt that yes, he tries to sound very "poor me", but, he is not a narcissist. He does love his children and would do anything. What I mean by that is in an emergency, urgent situation, etc., he's your man. But for the small stuff? Nope. For example, he's been playing the new Star Wars game and two days ago he called into work so he could play longer. Has he ever called in so he could go to a choir concert to watch/listen to our son? No. Would he ever even think of doing that? No.

I didn't want him to have the same relationship with our kids that I had/have with my own parents. Which is exactly what came to pass. I know my parents love/loved me and would do anything for me (again, emergency, funds, drop everything and drive across country if I needed them), but they never did the "little" things. For that I had my grandmother. Honestly, if it wasn't for her I think I'd have a LOT more FOO issues. She loved me unconditionally and I never felt like a burden to her. She always thought of me and took care of me, much more than my parents did. Unfortunately, even though I told this to WH early on, he preferred to not do that work, then, or now.

All of my children have a healthy self respect and do not feel obligated to engage or attempt a relationship that is not there. I do support them, but I don't think disparaging their father is very healthy. They have their own opinion of him that was derived through years, and yes, they know he loves them and will do anything for them, but also, "anything" mostly means the BIG stuff.

As for me, I am still learning to stand up for myself and not let him get away with his selfish behavior. I will say that he can not recognize this behavior himself without me pointing it out and he tries to redirect. He's over 50 so this habit of putting himself first is a difficult thing for him to change. But he is trying and I see the effort.

The1stWife

It must be hard to be a person who gets physically uncomfortable having a conversation with your family about something you are not interested in.

This is also something I didn't describe correctly. He doesn't get uncomfortable when something he isn't interested in is being discussed. It's when we discuss certain subjects, like sex, or politics etc. I have always been open with my children and allowed all subjects to be discussed, including the ones that make many parents uncomfortable. So, some conversations can get pretty graphic (age appropriate of course and nothing personal). His family never discussed anything in that way and so it sometimes icks him out. Sometimes he'll just walk away. He's gotten better over time, but it's still clearly visible that he'd rather not be in the discussion. We never push it or make fun of him. I just try to normalize it.

So sorry your H is missing out. But it’s his choice to miss out. He can change the dynamics but he chooses not to. For whatever reason.

And there's the rub. He's the one missing out on some amazing human beings!

Ok, so, it seems that there are two views on this subject as shared by some of you.

1. His relationship with his children is his responsibility and I don't need to expend my energy in trying to "fix" it.

2. While his relationship is his responsibility I can help by accommodating more palatable interactions and keeping him informed
of familial occurrences.

There's a lot more to those but essentially it boils down to these definitions.

After spending time thinking about this and pondering, I'm falling into category 1.

I apologize if I came off sounding like it was your RESPONSIBILITY to manage / change the situation. Yes, this is his doing, and he should be bending over backwards to do his part to change this. I was just under the impression that you very much wanted the situation to change. And sometimes we have to poke someone into taking responsibility. It’s not your job, but if it’s about something that is really important to us, sometimes we just will give anything a try, even if it is above and beyond our responsibility.

Noone but you can know how much you’ve done, and how much he would be willing to do if "poked with a stick".

But I don’t certainly don’t think it is your "responsibility" to "fix" the situation.

It sounds like to me that you want a partner who is involved with the kids. Sorry to say he has officially told you that it won't be him. You can't change that. You can't force him to do it differently. This is who he is. He will not be changing it. If this is what you want then you either need a time machine to choose a different father for them or open the door for a new partner who is the kind of parent you wish he could be through separation.

Since the above is not an option for you, what do you want from here? What do you imagine your ideal future will be for you and your children?

My WH is most assuredly selfish, often an AH, and I have recently felt that yes, he tries to sound very "poor me", but, he is not a narcissist. He does love his children and would do anything. What I mean by that is in an emergency, urgent situation, etc., he's your man.

Obviously, I can't diagnose your husband, but as the ex-wife of a narc and someone whose father has narcissistic tendencies, this seems like characteristic behavior. The narc loves to feel needed and indispensable during a crisis; they relish the opportunity to sweep in and be the hero.

But simply showing up mentally and emotionally on a regular basis? Doing things for other people that won't result in the immediate gratification of fawning praise and undying gratitude? That's simply too much of a tall order for them.

I know I can call up my Dad at 3 AM if I was having an emergency and he would run to my rescue. But if I called him to talk about how I had a rough day at work, I would get nothing more than a "uh-huh" while cable news blares in the background. And you can bet that if I called him out on anything he did wrong, he would shove that 3 AM phone call right in face.

Think back to the last time your kids actually had a major crisis that required your husband's intervention. How long ago was that? And how much heavy lifting were you doing during that crisis on top of all the emotional effort and support you provide for your kids on a regular basis?

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 8:31 PM, Tuesday, May 9th]

Obviously, I can't diagnose your husband, but as the ex-wife of a narc and someone whose father has narcissistic tendencies, this seems like characteristic behavior.

Just to add to this - so maybe he doesn't have a NPD diagnosis. Maybe he doesn't meet the criteria. However I don't think it matters if he's NPD or just behaving like one. This behavior isn't normal or healthy and it's indicative of a serious character flaw in how he views other people in regards to himself. He is completely oblivious to how his behavior affects your children outside of himself and his feelings about it. It doesn't even register that they may have negative feelings about his lack of presence in their lives. He is oblivious to whatever damage that may be doing.

It makes complete sense to me that he works at your relationship and has learned how to put you first more. You've told him that this leads to more sex. He can get that from you by doing the work hence measurable gratification. He can't get a measurable and immediate gratification out of the kids so he doesn't value putting in the work with them.

This doesn't change much. If you want to be married to him as he is today knowing that the only thing that may improve is your relationship with him, that's your call. However don't gaslight yourself into thinking this is a sign that things could be different with other relationships in his life. He has made himself clear that he will not be making the effort.

[This message edited by nekonamida at 12:25 AM, Wednesday, May 10th]

To follow up on Neko’s point, which was great, you probably do a lot to make your WH’s life better and comfortable, hence why he feels the need to keep you happy in the relationship.

Having children is wonderful and fulfilling, but the love for a child is, by necessity, a selfless love. If your husband has a transactional view of relationships, he probably doesn’t see enough value in investing time and energy into the kids beyond the bare requirements of a father (such as when he’s urgently needed in an emergency).

It's very common for us codependent types to attract to needy partners. It guarantees we get to work hard and see ourselves as strong saviors forever. We like viewing ourselves as strong and competent doers, so we saddle ourselves with alcoholics, drug abusers, mentally unwell, physically unwell, personality disordered, etc. There are countless members here like us, stuck with needy partners.

as usual, OIN hits the mark.

What I mean by that is in an emergency, urgent situation, etc., he's your man. But for the small stuff?

The narc loves to feel needed and indispensable during a crisis; they relish the opportunity to sweep in and be the hero.

Life IS the small stuff. People like your WH and mine only do the big stuff because that's something that has visibility, gravitas. They can brag about how they jumped in to an emergency and saved the day. But as some one else pointed out, how often is that really necessary, unless they are manufacturing their own crises? (It happens)

For example, he's been playing the new Star Wars game and two days ago he called into work so he could play longer.

What the actual fuck. Seriously???

I don't think disparaging their father is very healthy.

Well, you either tell the truth or become complicit in his assholishness by covering up for him. If you stand by meekly while WH is a dick to your kids, who do you think they're going to blame, even subconsciously, because YOU are the sane parent, YOU are mom, YOU are protector.

My WH sounds a lot like yours. Comically lazy (mine is both emotionally and functionally lazy) and will whine about shit, but if you offer solutions, they just backtrack. Crazy-making.

My kids will not likely have a relationship with my WH much past the time they go off to college. In my case, he's not even a bank... he's like, the opposite of one. They all literally have 1 thing in common: Discus. (And I have to force WH to go throw with them) and once that's gone...?

WhatsRight

I didn't feel as if you were saying it was MY responsibility. No apology needed. I understood that whatever I choose to do/not do has no bearing on his actions. In the end, I can't force a relationship, and I never would.

I appreciate all the advice and insight. Sometimes it's hard to see what is right in front of you. I still don't see my WH as a narcissist, but I'll keep an open mind and an eye out.

nekonamida

It sounds like to me that you want a partner who is involved with the kids. Sorry to say he has officially told you that it won't be him...what do you want from here?

I would like that kind of partner, and I do realize that that ship may have sailed. What do I want? Support, understanding, advice, perspective that I might be missing. Our youngest is 17 and graduating this year. I know I have a solid relationship with my kids so I don't worry about our future. At this point I don't need "help" with raising them, they are already raised. Ideally I would love for their father to have as deep a connection with his children as I do, but that is up to him.

Maybe he doesn't meet the criteria. However I don't think it matters if he's NPD or just behaving like one. This behavior isn't normal or healthy and it's indicative of a serious character flaw in how he views other people in regards to himself. He is completely oblivious to how his behavior affects your children outside of himself and his feelings about it. It doesn't even register that they may have negative feelings about his lack of presence in their lives. He is oblivious to whatever damage that may be doing.

I would have to agree with this. He often tells me about his interactions at work. Most people make friends and share about their lives. He doesn't seem to care about their lives etc., unless they are interested in having a conversation about anything he's interested in. He also has never really had the type of friends/acquaintances who he would hang out with outside of the home. Most of the people we hung out with we always did together. He's always said all he needed was me. This is something I've spoken to my IC about because I feel that he should have outside interests and shouldn't look to only me for ALL his needs.

But yes, I agree that he is oblivious to the negative effect his disconnect is having on the children. He's there, but not there.

It makes complete sense to me that he works at your relationship and has learned how to put you first more. You've told him that this leads to more sex.

Actually, we've had sex only a handful of times since I found out about the A in 2018 (except for a few days when hysterical bonding happened). However, he does know that I will not accept his behavior towards me from before the A any longer. That I WILL leave. So yeah, he doesn't want me to leave, though I'm not sure why, since apparently I wasn't the type of wife he wanted. He says he loves me and that even if I never want to have sex again, he will never cheat again and will not leave me because of it. As long as we continue to work towards a more intimate relationship (intimate as in close and connected not necessarily sexual). We'll see.

BluerThanBlue

The narc loves to feel needed and indispensable during a crisis; they relish the opportunity to sweep in and be the hero.

Could you expand on this? I've never gotten the sense that he "relishes" being the hero in an emergency. Honestly, usually he'll go right back to whatever he was doing. He's never appeared to want or need praise for what he does. But again, maybe I'm missing a particular component. Especially since I just recently realized that he will do the "poor me" and I come in with the "no, no, no, you're a good father/spouse etc.". Perhaps he's playing me and I just never realized. But then that begs the question, does he know he's doing it? IDK, keeping an eye on that and will no longer be the "you're great" sounding board.

To follow up on Neko’s point, which was great, you probably do a lot to make your WH’s life better and comfortable, hence why he feels the need to keep you happy in the relationship.

Having children is wonderful and fulfilling, but the love for a child is, by necessity, a selfless love. If your husband has a transactional view of relationships, he probably doesn’t see enough value in investing time and energy into the kids beyond the bare requirements of a father (such as when he’s urgently needed in an emergency).

I would agree with all of this. Something to bring up in MC. Another question to ask, how he views relationships. He has, since doing some IC work after the A, realized that his priorities are backwards. He has expressed desire to change them and worked towards some of it, but, there is still a giant mountain to climb if he's to reverse decades of selfishness and entitlement. Of course, as everyone has stated, only he can change.

Trapped74

Life IS the small stuff. People like your WH and mine only do the big stuff because that's something that has visibility, gravitas. They can brag about how they jumped in to an emergency and saved the day. But as some one else pointed out, how often is that really necessary, unless they are manufacturing their own crises? (It happens)

WH has never bragged about how he handles emergencies. He just does it and moves on. He never brings it up either when we discuss his lack of interest in the kids (or me pre-A). So this dynamic is not a feature of his personality. It's possible it was born out of his military career, training, and deployments to war zones. He doesn't get flustered, and he can make rational decisions under the stress. Maybe it's his lack of empathy? IDK.

I don't think disparaging their father is very healthy.

Well, you either tell the truth or become complicit in his assholishness by covering up for him. If you stand by meekly while WH is a dick to your kids, who do you think they're going to blame, even subconsciously, because YOU are the sane parent, YOU are mom, YOU are protector.

I'm going to be completely honest here and say when I read this it made me angry. As in: How dare you assume I am standing meekly by while my WH abuses my children. Or that I am complicit in his assholery, or worse, covering up for him. After taking a breath I realize that you are trying to help. I don't do these things by the way.

I HAVE, in the past on at least one occasion, failed to protect my son from my WH. Having to do with a disciplinary situation. I have thankfully since discussed this with my son, apologized to him, and let him know that I failed as a parent in that moment. I didn't make any excuses, I had none. I was a weak woman/mom in that moment. I have since then gained strength and a backbone so that I will never again let anyone hurt my children, let alone their own father. Physical discipline was almost never a thing in our household and when it was attempted by WH, it had no effect. No, I did not support him in this.

I do not, and have never, covered up for him. Our children know who he is, I know who he is, he knows who he is. I'm also not sure what you think my WH is doing to the kids? He isn't a dick to them. He doesn't verbally abuse them. He's just not always there for them for the little things. He's missed most of their school stuff. Doesn't know some things that go on in their lives. Isn't aware of many of their likes and dislikes. Again, it's more the fact that he is a selfish person and doesn't always know he's supposed to react a certain way. For example, when I got my tubes tied it never occurred to him that I might need/want him with me in pre-op. I freaked out (I'd never had surgery before and was scared I'd never wake up). Afterwards when I was telling him about the experience his eyes got wide and he said he hadn't even thought about how I would be feeling.

Lest anyone think I'm making excuses for WH I'm not. It's just that I don't want to mischaracterize him. His selfishness, lack of empathy, and obtuseness are enough negative issues to deal with.

Also, the kids and I do discuss their father and his behavior. My oldest son is hoping to have a conversation with him about certain incidents in the past (one of which is the one I mentioned already). Hopefully WH can be open minded about the conversation and validate our son's feelings. Not to mention, apologize. But I won't hold my breath on that one. So far, out of our 5 kids, our oldest son is the only one that seems to have any desire to open up dialogue like this. The others are content to let it lie.

Last but not least, when I say I won't disparage my WH, what I mean is I won't call him names to my children. As in "You're father is such a dick/asshole etc." But I will always tell them the truth.