SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

and I was awful to him, truly didn't want him around

I’m curious about this and how you are taking responsibility for this behaviour? Do you blame him for it?

How will I know he has changed? He is an incredible liar and manipulator (as I'm guessing all cheaters have to be). How can you see/assess/ascertain someone has truly changed?

It's only been two months, and while I'm a strong believer that people can come to quite a lot of realization about where their thinking went wrong, I do think it takes time to reevaluate one's entire values system, develop meaningful boundaries, learn new communications skill, and become a safe partner. So, it might be a bit early for you to make big investments.

Once we've been deceived like this, it's hard to have faith that we won't be fooled again. Note that when I was buying into the "unmet needs" model, I most certainly DID get a second helping of cheating WS. I think what helps is knowing what to look for. When we look at character as the biggest factor, it's easier to see progress.

What I also realized was that in the end, I needed to trust ME. At some point, we've got to make the call as to what we believe. Do we think the WS has changed? Has he become a safe partner? What happens if we're wrong in our assessment??? And THAT is the key, I think... that we've invested enough in OURSELVES that we know we'll be okay if we make the wrong call. Your healing is paramount. When you know that you've got your own back so to speak, you're much more comfortable taking risks and setting boundaries.

Edie- I take responsibility for how I was in the marriage but I take none for the affair. He tried to talk to me many times about what he needed and I just stopped listening and I was not able to meet his needs. I had other things to focus on I felt were priority. He was not first or second on my list. So of course he began to feel devalued, rejected etc. but no excuses of course but I see the trajectory looking back.

Hi Again TS77

I’m glad I at least spurred some discussion. I stand by what I said about taking the path of D no matter if u want R or D, but I do know that it’s a very slow journey no matter what you choose.

But I do think D needs to be a tool that is discussed as part of the work you both do, together and on your own. He needs to know that it may be the best way to move forward, either apart, or in trying to build something new.

As for actually starting The Work, we can list steps here that should be taken, and I will do that if you like, but to me the most important thing in any healing and rebuilding is that the WS must lead the effort. If you have to push and cajole him into doing anything, it won’t work. R won’t be of value.

So if you haven’t already, I’d have an honest conversation with him. "If we are going to have any chance of rebuilding this relationship, you need to lead the effort. I can’t be the one pushing you to do things.

Sure I will do my part to try and heal from the pain your affair has caused, but you need to show that you want this bad enough to make it happen.

So you need to ask for discussions. You need to find the best publications about infidelity and read and share them. You need to figure out the path to reconciliation that gives us the best chance of success.

Not me. I didn’t cheat.

So it starts with a plan. A rebuilding and healing plan. Research it. Write it down. Share and discuss it with me and we will modify it as we go. I’m not going to ask you for this again. Your degree of willingness to do this will show me a lot about how ALL IN you are.

So start working on it. Or not. It’s your choice, with no guarantees it will work. But if you don’t they only guarantee you will have is that i will be moving on without you. ”

[This message edited by Stevesn at 6:23 PM, Wednesday, June 14th]

Stevesn - does the WS have the skills for this? Or like you are saying they have to do the research and figure it out? I am not sure I have been leading the work but I have been reading and listening to anything I can get my hands on, it’s all based in trying to make sense of this and in an effort to numbing or decreasing the pain.

It’s true if he’s really engaged in this process and committed to me or so he says- let him take the reins!

I already don’t feel like myself and simple tasks seem overwhelming these days. So why can’t he carry that burden. I’m starting to think I have been too nice and accommodating. I seem to protect him - I guess because I love him. Do others seem to do that to protect their WS? And why is that?

You’re right. No one prepares to be a cheater. No one learns how to rebuild and reconcile before they betray their vows.

I have said here many time "for a WS, the path to fix what they have broken is not innate, it’s completely a learned skill. For a BS, the best way to measure how dedicated their cheating partner is to creating a new safe relationship is to see how willing and active they are in learning and implementing the actions needed to make that happen."

Start by telling him he should read, research and figure out how to create a written action plan for reconciliation. Then tell him in 1 week you’ll sit down and review his first draft.

He has a computer or tablet with Internet access I assume. It has never been easier to find what you need. The resources are literally at your fingertips.

If he’s not willing or interested in doing this work, then I don’t think you yourself have much to work with, with him as a partner.

But let’s give him a chance and see what he does.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 4:10 AM, Thursday, June 15th]

Have you read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair"? It's a quick read, both of you should read it.

Infidelity was the worst hurt I have ever felt, truly devastating. Healing, which ever way you go, is ongoing. I wish you the best.

Thank you for your sharing and your valid questions. This is my first post or reply of any kind. I wanted to reply in your thread right now because in reading your post and responses, I felt I was reading my own thoughts and feelings. I am about 5 weeks out from I think what is called D-Day here. Anyway, just wanted to thank you and those that have replied to you.
Hopefully this posts correctly. I seem easily to get lost and turned around in here.

I’m so sorry catholicwife. It really is awful. I bought how to help your spouse heal from your affair. Gave it to my husband. I plan on reading it too as per advice on this thread.

I heard something interesting on a podcast this week. It said there is a Buddhist saying about two arrows. You cannot control the first arrow (discovery of the affair) but you can control the second- how you react (and this arrow can cause even more pain). And this really got me thinking.

I don’t want to wallow in this pain any longer. It’s really only hurting me. There are moments I am easily overwhelmed and enraged but I have been practicing thought stopping and focus on something else. Not perfect by any means but the self torture and the ‘mental movies’ are too much. The nightmares have subsided some thankfully. I try not to indulge in misery too much but I’m still baffled at the level of deception. My biggest fear now is this will happen again. I’ll forever be on eggshells.

Any time you want to chat- reach out on here. These nuggets this week have helped me so much. I feel I am getting some power and self esteem back.

Take care.

Truth

Please know it does get better. Sadly it doesn’t get better overnight. And it doesn’t get better as fast as we would Ike either.

You will not always be this blindsided and struggling to cope. I remember the first 90 days were the WORST. My kids were teens. They were home for the summer. My job was a toxic nightmare (that’s a whole other saga) but I was desperate to keep my job. I needed the $.

So I had to show up every day and pretend things were "fine". I had to force myself to eat. For months I was lucky to sleep 1 hour per night. And my H had NO remorse and was kicking me to the curb b/c he had a mid life crisis. I had to sit and watch his outrageous ridiculous behavior with no ability to do anything.

So we truly understand where you are. I’d describe it as hell. You are overwhelmed with emotions and pain. And then there is the cheater who you have to deal with every day.

Please don’t be hard on yourself.

Please don’t drag the cheater down the R path. That was my biggest mistake. My H did next to nothing to R and if he did one small thing, I’d act like he moved mountains 🤪. I’d hang on that one small thing and make it seem like it was a sign.

After Dday 2 I was a completely different person. I didn’t care what he did as I was D him. But that’s another story.

Put yourself first. Stop worrying about the cheater. If he can’t or won’t do what’s needed to R, then recognize you cannot force him into doing something that he doesn’t want to do. And by extension you can see that R with a remorseless lazy "do the bare minimum" spouse is a recipe for disaster.

Our relationship was cemented the night we were engaged. My FWH, made vows to me and I to him. The wedding was a legal formality to me.
When I discovered the tip of the iceberg it was devastating. Due to the DD and my devastation, I had a health crisis with in a few days. I was hospitalized for 2 weeks. My husband was very stubborn about his needing individual therapy. My FWH trickle truthed. I was in such stress my brain would leave my body, at other times my face would go numb.

I didn’t cope well at all. Due to various people here I decided to give myself time for a decision. I kicked him out of our bedroom. I had a difficult time the first year. I finally scheduled a lie detector test, told him as he was leaving for IC, if he didn’t go to the lie detector test and pass it was automatically legal divorce. He came home and spilled his guts. There was no guarantee of reconciliation for awhile.

I laid out what I called terms of reconciliation. I also had a close look at myself. I knew I didn’t cause the situation but I needed to work on my issues and heal mentally and physically. It took time. I liken DD as a death of a loved one. I truly believe to be healthy people will need to go through the 5 stages of grieve. Healing was not done in 2 months. My WH, had to travel to Europe during this period. One of the things he needed to do is answer his FaceTime immediately when I called. He kept FaceTime on in the hotel, until I became more trusting.

Why I decided to reconcile was seeing him being remorseful vs regretting getting caught. I watched my FWH actions. Ultimately we repeated vows, privately and our marriage not only survived but started thriving.

You also experienced a double betrayal that makes it hard as well. For myself, I felt it was a choice to open my mind up to reconciliation, but it was a choice we both needed to make.

Or is over ten years since DD. My therapist told me was I going to make my life a book on how my husband betrayed me or a section of healing and moving on either solo or together, we decided together. I don’t think of it daily, literally I come here to share like others do. I also spend time in off topic. There are people sharing, I enjoy it.

Thank you for sharing your story. It helped me finally share mine.

[This message edited by ALWAYSmyFOREVER at 8:04 PM, Saturday, June 17th]

Hi all- having a bit of a hard time. My birthday is coming up and it still seems worth celebrating but also feels heavier this year. We have a get away planned and I am looking forward to it.

Still feel like I am doing the ‘fake it til you make it’ a bit.

He has taken charge on reconciliation and is leading that which was my requirement. He has stepped up. I’m just very confused because he keeps saying I didn’t think you cared about me? I didn’t think you’d care if I did this. Then why hide it and have a secret for so long? I don’t understand. I didn’t show him love in the ways he needed but I still did so much for him and our family. But he was my last priority because I felt that as an adult he can meet his own needs. I still feel he requires a lot of attention.

The anxiety is slowly easing up and the nightmares are more like neutral dreams now still about his affair partner. But less about me dreaming of hurting her.

The stain is still very fresh and I find myself needing a lot of time alone and time to process, read and journal. But there are days I don’t cry and I’ll take that as a small win. There is still less than zero trust.

An interest podcast I heard was from Andrea Giles about risk how everything is a risk. Which others here have written about as well. Is are you ok or will you be ok if this happens again? Of course not ready to answer that. But let me tell you if it happens again I’ll be healing alone by choice.

Thinking of you all on here. We are strong because we have no choice but we have to choice to grow from this.

Sorry for the typos!

I hope you realize that saying "I didn’t think you would care if I cheated" is straight out of the cheaters handbook and pure horse manure. Of course he knew you would care. That’s why he had to lie to you and hide it. It is a form of blameshifting and excusing his own behavior. He needs to own his own terrible choices. Period. He vowed to be faithful as long as you are married. His vows were not conditional. He didn’t vow to be faithful only as long as you loved him in the way he needed, or as long as he thought you cared. Do not accept this rationalization. It’s what cheaters tell themselves to justify their choices. He needs to work on his honesty and character. Good luck.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 12:39 AM, Wednesday, June 21st]

He may have felt that way. We often reference the cheater's handbook as if to say b/c a lot of cheaters say this, it must be false. When it's just as possible that cheaters say this because it is how they felt but being cheaters, they didn't have the courage or the moral compass to do anything about those feels except have an affair and escape.

That's the core issue. His moral compass, his character and his coping mechanisms. (note how none of these are YOUR issues)

He had a hundred other choices he could have made but he didn't. Why? That is completely on him.

You'll know he's doing the work when the conversations are about him acknowledging his warped thinking, poor coping mechanisms and need for attention so strong he'd destroy everything for it. In other words, when he stops justifying it and starts looking himself squarely in the eye.

Thank you TheEnd,

I like that response, none of the issues with his character or moral compass or his choices are MY fault or MY issues. I get that. It's taken a while to get to this point. Where I take 50% responsibility for the environment in our marriage but I DO NOT take any blame for his horrible choices. I do have the right at any time to end the marriage and I would have legitimate grounds to do so.

a couple of things, it's been a few months now and I want to hear from the forum:

1. I feel so completely drained, mentally and physically. I can get through my work days but everythings feels like so much effort.
When does this get better? When does the heaviness lift?

2. He is always willing to answer questions (of course I don't believe any of his answers yet-how can I?) and our conversations are me asking questions about the A, and still feeling like I understand why but am in disbelief at HOW he could do that. I guess what I'm saying is my anger has subsided but is now in full on sadness. Are these conversations productive? Or should I just do my best to keep my mouth shut knowing these conversations are draining for him and depressing for him as well. Or do I just stop protecting him altogether since he clearly gave me no consideration with his choices. Keep in mind we are BOTH trying to do better for our marriage here.

3. His AP being our mutual friend- how are there such horrible people in the world? Please lie to me and tell me karma is a real thing and she will get her punishment in one way or another. I have no desire to confront her but the dreams where I hurt her are quite vivid still though subsiding in frequency.

Thank you- it's really comforting knowing this group is here. Sometimes I just read the posts not to feel so alone and not even post anything.

How awful to have your entire reality just flipped upside down. I'm reading the from Abondonment to Healing book and only at the shattering phase but boy do I get it- we must become our own mothers and know what comforts us and what brings us peace.

Truthseeker,

To answer your questions from my own experience:

1). The heaviness will lift but it takes time for sure. You are very early out. But you aren't helpless here. Radical self care is in order. You mentioned mothering yourself and that is exactly what's needed. Care for yourself like you would a sick child or parent. You're tired? Rest every chance you get. You're sad? What might lift you? A good book, your favorite movie, a coffee with a friend? It doesn't matter what - treat yourself to an act of love and kindness every day, multiple times a day if you. If the best you can is a hot bath, do that. Slowly but surely a moment of peace will turn to 10 then an hour then a week. Self care is really your responsibility and the one place where you have absolute control. Therapy can help here too. Try to find one who specializes in trauma.

2). Your questioning (over and over) is a normal response to trauma. You should not silence yourself. It won't work anyway... you'll just get overwhelmed with thoughts and feelings and melt down anyway. You can try to manage the trauma response versus suppress it. Some suggest setting a certain time aside each day where you two come together to discuss the A and your questions. Think like an hour after dinner. Some say taking a walk helps because it's easier to do without the wayward having to look you in the eye. Either way, schedule the time and stick with it. Another suggestion: I know a couple that bought a notebook and would write back and forth to each other every day. She'd ask questions and he'd write his answer. He seemed more comfortable with writing it in the book than saying it to her face.

3). I don't know if karma is real. But I know this: no self respecting, self loving person takes scraps from a married man. No loving, healthy person knowingly betrays a friend in the worst way possible. She's living her karma now. She doesn't respect herself, she probably loathes herself, she is not healthy and she doesn't know how to love. Feel how empty that is for just a moment. Feel the pain of that existence. Not to pity her but to understand she lays her head on her pillow at 2AM and is deeply sad and alone.

Now kick her out of your head as much as you can. You might have to kick her out 100 times a day. Put an elastic on your wrist and when you think of her snap yourself! Because the best treatment she deserves is to be so forgotten she turns to nothing.

The choice to choose a friend of yours or both of yours to cheat with makes the situation worse.

He didn’t choose her for any other reason than she was available. She was an easy opportunity.

And I agree with previous posts about the common excuse "I didn’t think you cared". I threw that back at my H often while he was begging me to R. I said "not sure why you want to R with someone who doesn’t care about you".

Hard to overcome that issue but he admitted it was not true. He just told himself that to justify his behavior. 😡

I am struggling with the pain, it is so deep and hurts to the core. To the point where it is a knot in my stomach and bubbles up into tears. I have moved through all of the stages of grief and keep cycling through them.

Gently, letting the pain in is the way to put the pain into the past. Feeling it lets it go, and that' the quickest way through it.

IIRC, it took me 3-6 months to hit my rock bottom. That was followed by a slow improvement in my life, starting with fleeting glimpses of joy and moving to moments of joy. So you won't always feel this bad.

But as you recognize, a LOT of pain comes with being betrayed, especially with a double betrayal. A LOT of pain requires a LOT of time and effort to process it. It's unfair, but healing from betrayal just takes as long as it takes - but feeling the pain, letting it in, as you're doing, is - again - the best and quickest way back to joy.

I found it helpful - maybe essential - to focus on myself after d-day. Someone said to me, 'R requires 3 healings. You heal you. Your W heals herself. Together you heal the M.' That statement made me realize I could heal no matter what my W did, no matter whether we ended up married or divorced.

I wanted to R, but the concept of 3 healings made me realize I'd be OK no matter what as long as I did my own healing work.

I think that's true for ALL BSes:

BS heals BS.

WS heals WS.

If they both do the necessary work, BS & WS together (re)build their M.

...And the BS's healing work is to process the pain out of their body.

I know it feels like the pain will last forever. I'm another former BS who has worked through the pain, and I once was where you are at right now.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:57 PM, Tuesday, June 27th]