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2. I was in the hospital with a major case of rhabdomyolysis (life threatening possibility) for four days and she didn't visit me much and then five days after I got out of the hospital, she brought her AP into our house and had unprotected sex in our bed. She's looked deep in herself through EMDR therapy and there was no malice...but this one is REALLY hard

It sounds like she is doing whatever is possible to rectify her affair. I’m not in the camp that says reconciliation isn’t possible. Posters here have come back from this and worse. But make no mistake. What she did showed extreme malice towards you.

I will admit that my two hot buttons are sex in the marital bed, and intermingling their APs into your life. Affairs happen. People are weak and stupid. I have confessed that on occasions I could have slipped too. But most affairs are to fill a hole that is lacking in their lives. An affair with work colleagues at lunch or on trips, the tennis coach, the secretary. These are all done for their own misguided reasons. The BS rarely plays into the equation other than to be kept in the dark to protect their secret. But when a spouses brings the AP into the marital bed, or finds reasons to have the BS shake the hands of their affair partner, it isn’t for them. It’s a giant FU to their BS.

Think about this.
She fu#ked him in your bed.

She knew he had a STD and had unprotected sex with him then you leaving you exposed.

She didn’t use protection and it’s by sheer luck you aren’t stuck raising his child.

She left you in the hospital all alone so she could screw him.

She brought him on your holidays and was probably screwing him and laughing about it with him. All the while he was pretending to be your friend

She would still be with him if he didn’t end it.

Again, it sounds like since you have found out she has been on the straight and narrow, although with their continued contact you should be hyper vigilant. She could have turned the corner and you guys sound like you want to make it. I hope you do. But make no mistake, her claims of no malice don’t hold water. The things she did were for her, but also to stick it to you.

Thanks everyone. Thinking of my WW as a monster (which she was) is hard because who she’s showing herself to be now isn’t that. It’s been a little while since I’ve checked her stuff so I think it’s time for a surprise inspection. That said, I appreciate the hope about the working arrangement, that has been the hardest pill to swallow in R

[This message edited by AhurtHusband at 2:19 PM, Friday, September 15th]

Waited does not make R easy with his pointed comments....

What you don't want is a life of regretting R. If any of these points are deal breakers, the sooner you know, the better for you, your WS, and your kids.

You've received harsh comments because the reality is so painful.

A further point or 2:

1) No matter how much you want to avoid D, you can heal whether you D, R, or wait while you gather data.

2) You can hold your head high no matter what you choose. Your W failed; you didn't.

But when a spouses brings the AP into the marital bed, or finds reasons to have the BS shake the hands of their affair partner, it isn’t for them. It’s a giant FU to their BS.

My BFF's H did this, but he's got absolutely ZERO emotional intelligence and says it was because he didn't want to spend money on a hotel when there was a free bed available. Jokes on him, though, because it cost him a whole new HOUSE.

When my D was born, my H didn't spend much time with us during the week we were in the hospital and had strangers smoking and partying in my house when he brought us home. It's one of the things that I don't think I can ever get over. I've been in IC trying to figure out how to get past it - and other things. Today's revelation that not everything needs to beforgiven is pretty big.

Waited does not make R easy with his pointed comments...

Yep.

My BFF's H did this, but he's got absolutely ZERO emotional intelligence and says it was because he didn't want to spend money on a hotel when there was a free bed available. Jokes on him, though, because it cost him a whole new HOUSE.

My EX had reasons too. The whole affair took place in our home. They never were together past our front door. She felt safer that she wouldn’t be found out. She didn’t admit it until later, but I knew she did it in our bed when she didn’t fight me about getting rid of it. Pretty good reason in her mind to keep it in the house. In mine, still a FU.

She set up a meeting with me and her AP to finance his business. She felt a lot of pressure from him to do it. Good reason in her mind. In mine, still a FU.

People have choices. These are ones meant to secretly hurt.

Again, she might be a totally different person now. It’s up to the OP to work through it. But make no mistake, she did this out of malice at the time.

I would not allow my wife to go to work where AP is working. Your wife is someone who has lied to you. Brought another man into your bed. Had dangerous unprotected sex with AP and then yourself. All while playing the good wife. How do know she is not playing the remorseful wife and has taken her affair underground. There is no way to monitor her face to face conversations with AP while at work. This is why we always say that the WS must find another job when a coworker affair takes place. She must find another job. It has to happen. Period.
Hope this works out for you.

Sisoon - Waited does not make R easy with his pointed comments.... shocked

What you don't want is a life of regretting R. If any of these points are deal breakers, the sooner you know, the better for you, your WS, and your kids.

You've received harsh comments because the reality is so painful.

A further point or 2:

1) No matter how much you want to avoid D, you can heal whether you D, R, or wait while you gather data.

2) You can hold your head high no matter what you choose. Your W failed; you didn't.

Thanks Sisoon,

Waited's comments are appreciated actually. I need to keep grounded, not high in the sky in hope and not 6 feet under in despair, but grounded.

You're right, reality is pain right now. I'm trying not to rush any decisions because no matter the decision it's impactful. I was speaking with my therapist and one of the resentments I have is that I have 2 paths in life now. Stay and deal with the pain etc. or leave and watch my kids deal with it. So I'm resentful that my WW makes this choice and her family has to pay the price for it.

Just curious. I had EMDR therapy to try to rid myself of the horrible mind movies of them together. Wasn’t really successful but time has made it much better. The therapy was more visually based.

Wondering how she and you came through with the conclusion that she had no malice towards you from this therapy. I get it if was something that she explored in IC, or possibly both of you in MC, but not from EMDR.

If she doesn’t think it was malice based, how does she reconcile the purposely hurtful things she did?

AHH,

If OM was your WW boss or superior You can work on getting him fired.

Threaten a lawsuit against the company.

Have your WW write out a detailed timeline of the affair and then take a polygraph.

How on earth do you keep yourself from confronting OM.

I let my WW go back to work with OM1 for some time and every time she went I felt powerless while at my job.

Do your kids still associate with their kids or do you still live close to OM?

Did you at least destroy whatever it was they had sex on in your house, are you in the same house?

[This message edited by survrus at 8:25 PM, Saturday, September 16th]

AHH,

The fact that your WW is an excellent actress means you better get polygraphs every 5 years or so.

Did your get a postnup?

And more reason to insist she changes jobs. You cannot know what’s going on at work. Are you saying you trust her??? Don’t rug-sweep her contact with AP.

Alright let me address the last few posts.

Waited, it wasn’t through emdr, it was through IC and MC. She used our house out of convenience. They were supposed to go to a hotel but her APs wife watched the APs actions so they did a last minute change. Yes this could just be a good story to make it seem not as bad. That’s why I’ve taken the stance that regardless of the malice to me was just collateral damage or it was intentional, it still existed.

Survrus, we actually moved from that house during the affair and no, they didn’t do anything in the new house (I installed cameras in the new house and would’ve seen him coming over which he never did when I wasn’t there) a yes that bed didn’t make the move and also the other bed they used (because my WW couldn’t stay in our marital bed the whole time…and yes you can argue it but there’s no reason to make something like that up) also was replaced years ago. Now I still ended sleeping in that bed after, because I didn’t find out until almost 6 years later.

Also our families stopped spending time together when the affair ended because the AP didn’t want my WW near his wife.

No, I didn’t get a postnup. I did speak to a lawyer and frankly, I’m my state it wouldn’t do anything because everything would get split in half regardless.

Dennylast…. No I don’t trust her fully. It’s like ** NO POLITICS ** trust but verify the day to day. She knows I don’t trust her long term though.

To address the working arrangement. I can’t watch her 24/7, but what we’ve set up is that if there is any communication, it’s by email only and she informs me and shows me immediately. I can inspect her laptop anytime I want. She tells me any day she goes into the office if he’s there as well. And yes I will randomly drop in to confirm. She works 2 days in and 3 days remote and so does he so she tries to set her days when he’s not there.

She is doing everything a WS could do (including quitting her job if need be) to win me back. She’s taken full accountability, she’s been transparently honest ( and I’ve tested her) there’s no gaslighting, rugsweeping or blame shifting…. Those would be deal breakers for me and she knows it. And even with all of that, I’ve made it clear that we may not make it because of what has happened. I still question myself, my course of action, and reconciliation.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:56 PM, Monday, September 18th]

Her AP even insulted our oldest a couple times which I almost lost it over but my WW talked me down.

I'm late to this thread, but this really pisses me off. Whatever malice she feels toward you--and make no mistake, she does--what kind of mother would allow this? This POS was already disrespecting you in egregious ways with your wife's enthusiastic support, but to extend that to your kids is a whole new level.

Okay, HH. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. But just from a sheer probability standpoint you are playing with fire. But you know her and are living with her so if you are comfortable with this then okay. Do the people at her work know about the affair? Was there a supervisor relationship between them? And I got to ask because I’m having a hard time letting this go. How do you feel on the couple of days a week when she goes into the office? That must be hard on you. I don’t see how you do it. Anyway I do hope you get what you desire going forward. Good luck.

Dennylast - Okay, HH. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. But just from a sheer probability standpoint you are playing with fire. But you know her and are living with her so if you are comfortable with this then okay. Do the people at her work know about the affair? Was there a supervisor relationship between them? And I got to ask because I’m having a hard time letting this go. How do you feel on the couple of days a week when she goes into the office? That must be hard on you. I don’t see how you do it. Anyway I do hope you get what you desire going forward. Good luck.

I understand the ambivalence happening around my post. I have it everyday myself. If we didn't have children, I would've divorced already only because at that point the pain and struggles of this wouldn't be worth it. But we have 3 kids and 2 are on the younger side. No, I'm not staying married strictly for the kids, but that's a big part to it. They are important enough to at least try and reconcile as long as it's done correctly (on her part). We have 18 years together. 1.5 years of it were a sham and the 5.5 years after were clouded by the affair because it affected her negatively...at first the detoxing and then after about 6 months she felt very guilty (and yes I know she did based on actions that didn't make sense then but do now, she would randomly beat herself up but not explain the REAL reasons for it), but still good.

To answer your questions. No-one that she works with now knew of the affair. The affair was kept very secret so the list of people who knew of the affair were 2 friends, 2 priests and a therapist. One friend she told, the other actually guessed. The two priests were for confession and her therapist was during the affair with her trying to get her head straightened out because ultimately she knew it was wrong, but she was getting too much of the high from it. She completely compartmentalized her life then. And yes, I've challenged her on how is that not going to happen again and she's working on that.

My WW and her AP never worked together. They're in 2 completely different departments. If she had day to day dealings with him, I wouldn't have allowed her to maintain her employment there.

Obviously, when she goes into the office AND he's there, those are the hardest days. I'll watch her location on the phone randomly. I know where she shows up on the building when she's at her cubicle and I know where she would show up if she went to his....yes the building is that large. I've also randomly driven in to test if she's being honest with whether or not he's there or not. She hasn't told a single lie since day 2 after D-Day. She did tell one lie on the first confrontation after my discovery and I told her this is zero tolerance. If I catch one lie...we're done....and we are...and she does know it. The other aspect that makes it easier is that I've recaptured some of my internal strength. I know what kind of man, father and husband I am. If she wants to Eff around and find out....so be it. We're done. I could really enjoy my life as a single man if I wanted to. I also wouldn't struggle finding new companionship (and she knows it) once I got myself healthy after the divorce. So ultimately, I'll be diligent in watching her actions and as long as she's doing everything correctly, I'll continue to help rebuild what she destroyed.

Have you asked your WW if she has let AP know that you found out about the A?

If "yes", what would you do?

Nexther - Have you asked your WW if she has let AP know that you found out about the A?

If "yes", what would you do?

Hi Nexther, this is a bigger question than just about me finding out about the A. If she spoke to him about the affair without consulting me first, we'd be divorced because I want the closest to No Contact that can be had in this situation. She has had 2 emails from him that are both work related. She's didn't respond to the first because she didn't need to and she responded to the second with only discussing the issue involving work and nothing personal. Our agreement, which she's held to, is that she shows me any communication as soon as it comes in (and yes I check the time stamps etc) and shows me her response before and after pressing send with me watching her press send (at least when she's home which both emails happened at home).

Yes I recognize I can't see everything that happens and if she wanted to, she could speak with him. Ultimately that is the risk of reconciliation. I know that I can watch some things but not everything. I know I'm taking my chances because we (the BS's) can confirm 100% of the actions of our WS's. I'm going by the consistent efforts and actions of my WW right now while being diligent on everything that I can.

Like you, I got into the email and saw everything, and what I saw was frankly unforgivable. That left me thinking of R in terms other than forgiveness, and what I realized was that forgiveness wasn't an absolute necessity.

We tend to think of forgiveness in very binary terms rather than as a process. Today, I can say that I have forgiven, but that took YEARS. In the beginning, I found myself very focused on the injustice of it. I realized that punishment was pointless. You can't punish one half of a whole. To harm my WH was to harm my marriage, hence myself.

He had done this horribly egregious thing, deliberately, willfully, and the thought of there being no justice for that galled me terribly. What I realized though was that if I really wanted punishment, the best thing I could have done was to simply step out of his way and let him destroy himself. I had taken the measure of the OW and she was looking for a meal ticket. He'd have spent the rest of his life in the yoke.

What I wanted though was R, so I had to accept that I was exercising my own CHOICE. I was choosing to forego the justice of D, not because that's what he wanted but because it's what I wanted. The trick after that was living with my choice.

There's no payment good enough for the anguish he had put me through. What could he give me that would make it okay? Nothing. Nothing was ever going to make what he did okay. Like your WW, he was pretty much a model WS, doing all he could to make repairs to the marriage, to himself, but there's no coin which pays us back for pain. It's not fair, but there is no fairness in infidelity, and no justice in R. This is one balance sheet which is always lopsided, because even when we tot up all that the WS does right, the wrongs still outweigh it.

So.. I decided to make an accounting trick of it, to "write it off" as a loss. I took into account all that he had accomplished to make reparations, and then tossed the rest of his "debt" away. This was me acting on MY CHOICE. I could choose to stand there forever with my hand outstretched waiting for payment which could never come, or... I could write it off as a loss and move on.

I know that sound really simplistic, but it helped to think of it in those terms rather than as "forgiveness" which is like trying to eat the bear whole rather than one bite at a time. "Writing off the loss" doesn't require forgiveness. It just requires an acknowledgment of choice.. that we recognize that we are owed a debt that cannot be repaid and that we expunge that debt. For me, forgiveness just snuck in while I wasn't looking, years later. In the interim, whenever those triggers came up reminding me of unforgiveable deeds, I reminded myself that I had already settled the matter.

Thank you Chamomile Tea. You're view of things sounds very much like my own. I'm big on the justice issue and I've had to accept that I'll never get it. Basically that my WW made a stupid and supremely selfish choice to make herself feel good for a short time and that set our family on one of two roads. Road 1 is reconciliation where I have to carry this burden for the rest of my life. Yes I know things can get better and even improve in many ways...but there will still be a burden that has to be carried and it's mine. Or Road 2 is if Road 1 doesn't work...than the entire family has to carry the burden. My children grow up in a broken home, the financial struggles that will happen, the broken home routine...all because she couldn't see past her own entitlement.

For Road 1 to work, long term, I'll have to find a way to forgive her, and we were having a discussion about how she compartmentalized her life before and during the A last night and how is she going to address that part of herself. It gave me hope that I'll be able to forgive her because her responses were healthy, accountable and recognizing that she doesn't have the full answers and that she'll have to dig into it with therapy.

I've read some things about forgiveness that are very similar to your philosophy of "writing it off" because ultimately forgiveness isn't some magical feeling that overcomes you, it is owning the grievance and not enforcing payback.