SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

22.10 update - I broke up with her.

TL;DR

The affair. My GF (29F) of 8 years was cheating on me (28M) with her co-worker. EA was around 1.5 yrs, and PA was about 10 month to 1 year (I think).

DDay was a month ago. She confessed about it to me herself – she says out of guilt.

She told me that she was cheating because, summarizing "it was shitty between us, we didn’t talk about any future plans together (marriage, kids), I was distance and depressed with work, and she didn’t saw any future in our relationship. She was thinking about breaking up, but didn’t, because she didn’t want to add to my bad mental state. She didn't tell me earlier, because there was never a good time, because I was depressed.". The OM is ~10 yrs older (i.e. around 40) coworker, has a wife and kids. She said that the affair was going on from March 2023 "but she doesn’t remember fully" - bullshit. She said that "she break up the A, because the OM was pushing on her to leave me and he wanted to leave his wife and kids, and she didn’t want to leave me".

We didn’t break up, because I was in shock and thought of this as my fault. My issues and our issues she described are real, I was passive, distance and depressed. I’m on antidepressants. My previous relationships fell apart partly because of that reasons. Hysterical bonding kicked in, I was afraid to lose her and wanted to make things right. Also, I really do love her, even tho I acknowledge her character flaws.

I must note that my GF’s father left her when she was little. This is why now she probably has fucked up needs for attention from men in her life. She prob wanted something different than I was giving her (more like a father figure?).

State of matters now:

We didn’t break up. I was terrified to lose her. I asked her if she wants to make things right. One time she said yes. Other time, when I was feeling super sad, she was crying and told me that "maybe it was never going to work". I told her that we can try and see what happens. But that we both need to put in the effort.

So things are a bit weird right now.

We try to act normal. Talk normal, like before. Have fun and goof around together. I started leaving work always on time and planning our time ahead. Planning doing stuff together etc. She acts kind to me, hugs me, kisses me, says that she loves me, etc. She says that she's sorry I'm that way right now.

But ofcourse, the underlying issue is not gone. I can see that she doesn't really acknowledge her guilt / mistake, blameshifts it to me and our relationship. Today she said that she "regrets hurting me, but doesn't know if she regrets the whole whing".

I demanded NC – she said that she minimized the contact as much as she could (guy works in other department, my GF can work remotely and doesn’t go to the office anymore). Truly, when I checked her phone, the calls/texts after the confession were work related, calls were short and in work hours. She said she doesn’t want to leave her job now, because it’s her career, maybe in the future months (mind that I got her that job LOL).

Texts. Later I went through her texts and saw that the EA was going on from middle 2022, and PA from probably Dec22/Jan23. So she lied about the timeline. I learned they had a deep EA, with both saying "I love you" (although he chased her more). I also learned that she started it. I also learned that their relationship was a rollercoaster, with a lot of fighting, uncertainty, mutual accusations.

* * *

Whats now / next steps?. Right now we are trying to work on the relationship. We still live in my apartment. I went to IC to work on my issues, made an appointment with a career coach, stopped working so long hours and focus on planning time for us and being with her. Thanks to reading SI, I removed a lot of guilt from myself.

However, when I try to talk to her, she is blameshifting, and doesn’t want to fully acknowledge her guilt/mistake. When I try to talk to her she gets sad and starts crying, like I’m doing something bad to her.

I want to go through her texts again soon and see if the A is going on. If yes – breakup.

If the A is not going on, I want to confront her about her lies about the timeline etc. without revealing that I saw the texts. I’ll do it by pointing out inconsistencies in what she told me in 2022.

I want her to admit not saying all the truth to me. And through this go to make her realize how much work she has to put in. I want to go her to go to IC and work on her issues. I want us to go to couples therapy.

How can I make her realize that it’s her fault and that SHE needs to work for that relationship now?

How can I show her how hurt I am and what she did was wrong and not justifiable?

Should I go for temporary separation?

I want her to realize, that we can't rugsweep this, that it's not just on my side, and that just me going to IC won't heal our relationship.

I want her to realize, that it's not just mine or our relationship issues caused that, but she had other options and decided to cheat. That there are her issues (e.g. her dad leaving them).

When I told her that if we want to make this right, both of us has to work (implying that I already started), she said that she's not sure of how can she work. And it's kind of true. I don't feel like I should tell her what to do. But I also don't know what exactly she can do to make it better.

I’m also considering breakup. Not out of spite, but maturity – maybe we just grew in different directions and should break up? Even if we reconcile, will it not haunt me? Will we be able to build future with each other? But I also fear being alone, and not finding someone for me in the future.

What do you guys think about it all?

* * *

Below is a long and detailed story. I need to sort things out for myself. I want to get a better understanding of what happened, and what to do. If its too long, please just read points 2-4.

1.The relationship.

Overview. Me and my girlfriend met in 2016. She’s very beautiful (still is) and at that time had that crazy energy of 21 yo girl that made me fell in love with her on the first sight. I was completely struck by her, and was feeling so lucky that she wanted to be with me.

We discovered our love for hiking and each year went on long trips to different countries to hike, sometimes even for 2 weeks. We slept in a tent, washed in rivers and carried heavy backpacks. It was hard, but very satisfying and it made us really, really close. At that time I felt that I’ve found my soulmate, that I want to spend the rest of my days with that girl.

Description of last years. In 2021-2023 things started to slowly go downhill. I was more and more depressed with my work. I was unhappy. I wanted to change my job, but due to covid, market was really bad, so I sticked with what I had. I also had (and still have) self-esteem issues, so I didn’t really believe in myself and that I would find a better place for myself. I was afraid to fail.

Meanwhile, in 2021 I got her a job through my boss connections, in a firm in her field.

My bad mental state. She was sad, that she was trying to support me, lift me up, tried to make me happy and it wasn’t working.

She started to get mad at me for being so passive in the relationship. Sadly, I agree that I was passive. Almost all of our trips, night-outs, and stuff we’ve done together was because she proposed and pushed me to do that. She said for a long time that she was getting tired of being an entertainer of our relationship. Also, I had problems with being proactive with housework, getting stuff done at our house, like buying new stuff or renovation. I was engaging in it, but almost always after she pointed something out.

So, I was working a lot. I was stressed and depressed. I was getting home late. Sometimes I was getting home later than I promised and found her crying in bed. Sometimes I was taking job for the weekends. She told me that she’s getting tired of waiting for me all the time and that our time slips through our fingers like sand. Also, my work stress and depression is what I think made me passive. I have and always had issues with having agency in my own life (I’m working through it with my IC now). I felt and stuck in my life career-wise. Furthermore, due to our worsening sex life, I thought shes not attracted to me and I started going to the gym with my friend – so I was absent even more… Also, in June this year I went to psychiatrist and got anti-depressants prescribed.

There was a mixture of bad feelings in me. I was unhappy with my job, but still felt that I have to provide for us (she earned less). I felt bad, because she was demanding me to do stuff together, but what blocked me was my fear of lack of money, fear of life, depression, lack of meaning, stress at work. So yeah, I agree, that I got passive in the relationship and I really regret that. On the other hand, I was frustrated that she gets mad at me and doesn’t care that much about our financial situation. I was the one paying all the bills and also for her gym membership, because she was earning less and I wanted her to have financial space to live life and develop herself. I felt that I am really pushing myself and she doesn’t see it. The bad thing was, we didn’t really sit down and talk about it all.

Don’t get me wrong – it wasn’t like we weren’t doing stuff at all. I still surprised her with some trips, going to theaters or concerts. We also went on longer trips, which even if proposed by her, I always got into organizing in the end. I also got very engaged into renovating our flat in March and April. I spent a lot of money and time on that.

Over the course of 2021-2023 she actually proposed remedies for our (mine) situation. She told me that I should get a therapy – I denied that, because I said I don’t have money for that. She told me that I can get money from my parents – I didn’t want that, as a matter of principle. She told me that I can work half time, or even completely drop my job, and we can live off her salary for some time (she advanced in her job and was earning more than before) – I didn’t want that. I thought that how we are is just "OK" and its "OK" to keep it that way. I thought that good times will just come by themselves when we start earning more money.

We talked about our future a bit, but apparently not enough. We discussed that we’d like to have children someday and picked the names. We talked about getting married but in a very vague way – we agreed (or at least I think se) that it isn’t the priority, that we can be committed to each other without a marriage.

Communication issue. So our core issue was communication. We created different visions of our relationship. Her version was that I don’t want to spend time with her, or create future. My version was I want to earn that future, I want to marry and have kids, but that just needs to wait, we need to earn money for it and make things better in my head. Sadly, we never sat down and talked about our visions. So she felt that I don’t care, and I felt that she’s to reckless and we should take care of our financial situation first. We didn’t talk about our mutual future.

The red flags. There were of course red flags I ignored. One was big: She told me he kissed her.

So, one day in march 2023 (I think it was march 2023 – I can’t really pin it, it might have been this years spring or last year winter, because I remember it was jacket weather), when we were going into our building together, my neighbour asked me to come down after I leave my things in the apartment. I was surprised. We got into our apartment and I asked her what was that about. She said: “I think I know what’s that about… [Thecoworker] was giving me a lift home from work and he kissed me in his car… And the neighbour saw it.”.

Now lo and behold: MY STUPID BRAIN DIDN’T PROCESS THAT INFORMATION ACCORDINGLY. I surpressed that information, and seriously understood that he kissed her “on the cheek” or that he surprisingly kissed her on her lips. All I said was: “Oh…”. I didn’t follow up on it and I didn’t go down to the neighbour. I sincerely thought that it is just some neighbour gossip. I trusted her so much, and wouldn’t believe that something is happening, that my brain just didn’t process the words.

So probably my GF saw it as I acknowledged and ignored her Affair... And "let her slip to another man". But that's not true. I trusted her so much, that my brain didn't even process that information right.

2.The Confession – stuff she told me

So the DDay came on 20 September 2023. Some days prior I remember she was sad, and I was comforting her as I could, saying that I love her very much, that we gonna figure everything out, that everything will be alright, that she can always count on me ETC.

On 20 September 2023 GF called me from home crying. She told me that she feels terrible, she needs me and if I can come home ASAP. I got worried and was home 45 min later.

So she told me. Here’s how it went, more or less.

She started crying like crazy. I know this girl for almost 8 years, and never saw her crying like that. She was trembling. I asked if something bad happened. She told me: "Yes… I got into some fucked up relationship with [OM NAME] from my work". I immediately understood. Some of the redflags described above struck me. The OM is ~40 YO coworker from other department, with wife and 2 kids.

What she said was in summary that (can’t remember exact words): "You were working so long and was so unhappy for years. I always tried to support you, but I couldn’t anymore. Lately you were always absent. We didn’t do anything together. You never made effort to spend time with me, to plan something. I was sitting here in these four walls alone, and I got very depressed. I felt that you don’t want to build future with me, that you don’t want to marry, have kids. We never talked about our future. I don’t know couples that are together for so long and don’t talk about it. I felt that I’m wasting my time. You are going to be learning to your bar exams soon, and have even more work. You refused to go to the therapy and you refused to figure out the long working hours. So I felt that it’s always going to be like that. I felt like people older than us had more interesting lives than us. I’m not trying to blame you, but that’s just how I felt. It was never about hurting you, or leaving you, I just wanted to spend time with someone interested in me."

She said that if I want that, she will move out and we can try couples counselling.

So, me, knowing that mine and our relationships issues are real, took the blame immediately. I was in shock and something angry. I wasn’t ready to lose her and was terrified. I said that I know about those issues and I was blind. We went on a walk and I immediately started talking how I will make things right. Hysterical bonding kicked in and I started the "pick me" dance.

Later, when I settled down a bit, and in further days I started asking questions. Her answers were more or less like this:

Me: "If it was that bad, why didn’t you talk to me?"; Her: "I tried to talk to you, but you never listened."

Me: "If it was that bad, why didn’t you just leave me, or tell me that if I don’t get my shit together, you will leave me". Her: "I cared for you and I didn’t want to make your mental state worse".

Me: "Where do you think that other relationship was going? This guy is older, has wife and kids. Did he want to leave his wife and kids for you?". Her: "Yes. In July-August he started pushing me to leave you and said that he would leave his wife. But I told him that I don’t want to leave you, that if we break up we gonna break up by ourselves and not by her leaving me to someone".

Me: "When has it started?". Her: "I can’t remember… it was like March or April this year…" – I told her that is bullshit, because who doesn’t remember when his affair started. She told me: "I don’t, it was just developing slowly".

Me: "Why didn’t you tell me at some point earlier, you had so many occasions. Why did you return to that guy again and again and again?". Her: "I just found myself in that relationship, and I rolled with it. There was never a good moment to tell you, because you were depressed.".

Me: "But we’ve done so much stuff together, don’t say it like I was on a different planet". Her: "you were emotionally distant, and our day to day life was miserable".

Of course, she also repeated the part of feeling alone, feeling going nowhere, abandoned ETC.

3.The texts

2 weeks after the confession I decided to invade her privacy, for the first time in our 8 yrs relationship. It was because I felt that she didn’t tell me the whole truth (e.g. who doesn’t remember when A started?). When she was asleep in the night I took her phone and looked through the text with him. I knew I would find only pain there, but I felt to need the truth, and also wanted some evidence in case I contacted the OM’s wife.

Here's what I found (please know that English is not our primary language, so what I’m giving is a translation). I also triangulated their texts with my and GF messenger messages, so I was able to pinpoint some of the lies she told me:

1)She started it. I didn’t ask her who started it, so I looked for that in the texts. That was painful. She started it by contacting him like "do you want to spend a weekend by the sea" (she went there with her female friend to attend a festival, and apparently wanted him to join. He didn't at that time.). Also, in July 2022 they exchanged photos from their vacation and he asked "does the offer still stands?", and she answered "yes". So there must’ve been some offer from her side.

2)It started way earlier than March 2023. On 30 June 2022 she texted him about spending the weekend by the sea. So yeah, way earlier than she told me "March, April 2023". The EA was already rolling.

3)They actually had a deep EA. That hurts a lot. Since Feb 2023 they texted a lot (but he was texting way more). He was telling her that he loves her, that their love is pure and strong, that their hearts are one etc. She also wrote that she loves him, several times (compared to his dozens). In general, he was the one "chasing" that relationship more.

The EA really hurts, because at the same time she was also telling me that she loves me.

Their relationship turns out to be a rollercoaster. Since Feb23 she wanted out, and he wanted to continue. He sent her dozens of text on how he loves her, and she mostly sent texts how this whole situation destroys her, how she is unhappy that he can't spend time with her, even that "it never should've happened". In turns it was "good" and "bad" between them through March, April 2023 and later.

From what I understood, she was seeking "care and attention" in their relationship. She also said that "she’s done with trying to please everyone around and want to focus on herself".

She also wrote him that she values "trust and honesty in relationship and she is not getting it from OM" – WTF ? Where was OUR trust and honesty????

4)Their relationship was sexual since latest Dec22/Jan23.

5)Truth about their breakup and confession?. Now this: in the period pre-confession it looked like it was my GF seeked that relationship (as I told, earlier it was mostly him pursuing it, while she tried to distance).

However, from the texts it seemed like in September 2023 (~3 weeks pre confession) dynamics changed.

Now she was sending texts like "please tell me if this is over, I have to know" and him: "I have to think about it calmly".

On the very day of her confession to me, she wrote him in the morning (5h before confessing): "I love you more than my life. I won’t back down in this feeling, I know that yesterday you told me I tend to. I came to you, please come down to me".

So I don’t think she’s telling the truth about their break up – that it was him pushing her to leave me, and her refusing. But it might have been like that – maybe he set her an ultimatum?

4.State of matters now

No breakup. So yeah, we didn’t break up. I was terrified to lose her. I asked her if she wants to make things right. One time she said yes. Other time, when I was feeling super sad, she was crying and told me that "maybe it was never going to work". I told her that we can try and see what happens. But that we both need to put in the effort.

So things are a bit weird right now.

We try to act normal. Talk normal, like before. Have fun and goof around together. I started leaving work always on time and planning our time ahead. Planning doing stuff together etc. She acts kind to me, hugs me, kisses me, says that she loves me. I respond to that, I still feel a lot of attraction to her. I also hug and kiss her, we sleep together in one bed.

But ofcourse, the underlying issue is not gone. I don't feel good about it in general. But it's also hard for me to be cold to her, to push her away. There is still a lot of feelings on my side.

Triggers. Sometimes I get triggered though and get sad. She says then that she can see and feel that I’m sad and I look at her in a strange way. What am I supposed to say? That I’m mad because she had an affair and was lying to me for a long time? That I’m mad because I keep imagining them having sex? I'm mad, because from my perspective, I provided her with a house, and safe space, I provided for herself to she can grow, and she did what she did?

My state/Self-esteem. I’m kinda mad at myself for being so conciliating. I sometimes feel that I should show more emotions, be more angry. But that’s not the person I am. I kinda feel that I made it seem like my forgiveness is easy, like she doesn’t fully see how much it hurt me. I told her that it hurt me, but it’s not like im throwing tantrums, yelling at her or crying. Sometimes I feel like I should’ve made her move out for some time, so she feels that she needs to fight for us, not the other way around. It targets my self-esteem.

Also, issues with my depression and work didn't disappear. I still feel trapped in the career I chose and feel helpless. Now my relationship of 8 years falling apart was added to that. This is the lowest period in my entire life so far.

Her being angry and sad. So – we agreed to work on our relationship. But so far I feel like I’m doing the work – I went to IC, stopped going out from work late, stopped going to gym with my friend, and go with her instead. I try to plan activities for us ETC.

But when I'm sad, she also goes into this state of sadness. When I try to talk to her, she starts crying. I see it somehow like internally she blames me for making her sad.

When I tried to talk to her recently, she got angry. I asked her if she regrets what happened. She told me: "I already told why it happened. It was shitty between us and I didn’t see any future. I regret that I hurt you and what you are going through now, but I don’t know if I regret the whole thing.".

I said: "What you said about us was the framework in which you took that decision, but it was yours decision. Don’t shift the blame on me. You could take other decisions."

Her: "*crying* OK, it was my decision. It was egoistic. What else do you want me to say? Am I supposed to wear a sack of penance now?". She left and bashed doors.

I said: "I don’t aim to bash you with these talks, but we need to achieve an understanding of what and why happened. I’m the one hurt in this situation."

Her: "I think we are both hurt in this situation".

So yeah, she’s kind of blameshifting right now and doesn’t want to fully acknowledge her guilt / her mistake.

NC. I demanded NC with the OM. She told me that she already made the contact only to necessary work matters. She told me that that guy is kinda ignoring her now and even ignored some of her work requests for 3 weeks.

She said that next year she can be looking for another job, but right now she is invested with closing the year and can’t drop it.

She stopped going to the office and stopped going on that work trips to that department in the other city. But didn’t went full NC - still work-related matters. I know to not believe it in whole, that's why I'm planning to check her texts again soon.

IC. I started going to IC (been there 3 times so far). Its really helpful, although I didn’t talk to IC about A yet. On my first session I talked about my depression and cried all session.

[This message edited by Isthereapoint at 2:01 PM, Sunday, December 17th]

Hi. I am male 32 yrs.I have a wife in which we were in realtionship for 5 years and married for 5 years. My wife confessed her infidelity on her own where she had EA/PA with her coworker where they slept for 4 to 5 times. However her coworker never got emotionally attached to her and just used her.She was out of country when this happened.She did the confession as she could not live with this guilt. We have small child 3 years old.I also confessed to her that i went to a prostitue in july this year. As for me it was emotionless and act of gratification. However i am not able to reconcile the fact that she checked out on me emotionally and physically both. There were no lies on her part just act of ommision. She used to tell me all the day events and were communicating regularly. We were in a hapoy marriage and both successfullooking forward to life.Now it is all messed up beyond control.I am not able to come to terms that in a happy marriage what could have led her to such actions. This was so out of caharacter for he. Any advices?

1st a side note to Anky: In order to get feedback on your own situation, start a new thread, posting in the Just Found Out section. The responses to a post should be about the original post, in order to help keep things organized. I'm sure you'll get helpful responses once you start your own post.

Isthereapoint:
I'm so sorry for your pain. I was very raw for a long time after finding out, and the lies and denials only made it so much worse.

You have several statements that start with "How can I make her realize..." or "I want her to realize..."

I get that desperate desire. I really do. But you can't make her realize or do anything. It's the sad and frustrating truth.

She's still lying, minimizing, deflecting.

She is still self-focused and lacking in true empathy.

She can tell you or herself that her actions (not breaking up with you, yet having a married boyfriend on the side; continuing to lie in order to, perhaps, "spare you from pain) are done "for you." But, nah. You know it's really about her making choices that serve her.

You can't make her realize she needs to grow and change. She has to want this for herself.

Healing from infidelity is an exercise in coming to grips with what you can control (boundaries, self care, your own IC, etc).

You have to come to grips with who she is, not who you thought she was or who you hope she might be, but who she is right now. Is this someone safe for you?

Your decision to try to reconcile or separate or just end it has to be based on your own best interests.

It's OK to let the dust settle a bit and get some clarity. I think you're already getting some.

If you don’t have kids why try for reconciliation? She sounds like a hideous human being.

Welcome here brother...

I'm sorry for what you're going through. I went though similar at the same age some years ago.

Understand that things have been pretty shitty all the way around since 2020 for everyone. Covid, geopolitics, social media polarisation, concerns over climate change, and an erosion of financial security have been huge stressors for pretty much everyone globally. I don't think many can really say "it's been a blast". Of course you've felt down, everyone has. It's been a hell of a lot of stress and it has made everything harder, but that's no excuse for what your GF did - you don't put a bullet in someone's head because they stubbed their toe.

Her script, well... it reads just like a script. If I had to write the short version of how this all likely went down, here it is. Your GF was lacking something within her that lead her to flirting with the OM who was perfectly receptive to this. This became an EA, progressing to a PA. The OM told your GF he was unhappy with his wife (probably that she was terrible to him) and your GF was expecting the OM to leave his family for her. Eventually either the OM's wife found out or your GF pressed him to hard (he was happy to sit on the fence and have a fun piece of side action outside his marriage, while she fell in love with a eff'd up fantasy that she created in her head to escape mundane reality) and the OM never had any intent of leaving his family (I call bullshit on her saying the OM was pushing her). This is why she's still with you, as she didn't want to leave what she had until her plan was all in place, and this is why she's upset with how everything ended up.

Nowhere in anything you wrote did I see any real signs of remorse from your GF. She's upset that the OM didn't pick her, and almost seems resigned or almost even a little resentful that she still has to stay with you, for now. In everything she's almost trying to make herself out as the saint/martyr "Oh I didn't tell you because of what it would do to you". Bullshit. She's doing this to protect herself, plain and simple. She has a lot of work to do to rebuild her self esteem and be a contributing partner in a relationship.

I'm sorry if any of this seems harsh. I'm just trying to simplify things to help you gain perspective.

I think you really have your head on your shoulders and are approaching this very maturely, trying to tackle the issues with her, with your relationship, and with yourself. And you are perfectly entitled to feel confused, angry, and upset with what happened to you. Understand though that you can't "fix" her. She can only do that herself. Your choice is to decide what you need from her to stay. I'm not saying to separate or stay with her (that's your choice), but you do need to focus on your healing and wellbeing and on rebuilding your self esteem. Keep up with the IC and make sure to monitor your health. If you haven't already read through the Tactical Primer and articles in the Healing Library on the 180, I highly encourage you to do so. Regardless of what happens with her,you need to be at your best and commit to moving forward to a healthier and more enriching future.

Hang in there brother, keep strong, and believe in yourself.

No matter what happens, you're gonna be okay.

[This message edited by SerJR at 1:33 PM, Thursday, October 19th]

SerJR, BreakingBad, Jajaynumb, thank you for your answers. I will fully respond to your messages later, as currently I am at work.

Now just this:

1) She asks me "what can she do to make me feel better"? Well I don't know how to answer that.

I want her to apologize to me, to say that she regrets, that it was a mistake etc. I'm not saying all the time, but lets say when we talk about the hard matters (we haven't had a longer talk in like 2 weeks though). She apologized when she told me, and says she's sorry etc., but I kinda want more. I need to see if it's true.

Should I give her the "What Every WS Needs To Know" to read? I dunno. I don't want to guide her through how to make it right.

2) SerJR: "The OM told your GF he was unhappy with his wife (probably that she was terrible to him) and your GF was expecting the OM to leave his family for her. Eventually either the OM's wife found out or your GF pressed him to hard (he was happy to sit on the fence and have a fun piece of side action outside his marriage) and the OM never had any intent of leaving his family (I call bullshit on her saying the OM was pushing her). This is why she's still with you, as she didn't want to leave what she had until her plan was all in place, and this is why she's upset with how everything ended up."

Part is true- in their texts I saw them talking about the issues in OM's marriage.

From what I remember, they both texted that "they're not ready for radical changes right now". So it was like to some extent they were OK with such an Affair?

What I don't understand is, my GF is seriously 9/10 girl beauty-wise. She could have any man she want, like seriously, if she wanted attention and money from men, she can fckin get it all day.

[This message edited by Isthereapoint at 2:02 PM, Sunday, December 17th]

Welcome to SI I'm sorry you are going through this but glad you found us. There is a lot of help for you here please visit the healing library and the topics pinned at the top of this forum. You need to study and implement the 180 ASAP she is still wandering in la la land.

You need to find this man's W and inform her. Do not threaten this or tell your GF your plan to do it. This will bring the A into the light and light kills A's because they thrive in darkness. I wish you the best and sorry you had a reason to find us.

The sheer size of your post shows just how overwhelming the aftermath of an affair can be - so sorry you're in this situation
.
It's overwhelming and it's very natural for a BS to do exactly what you're doing right now - which is trying to understand everything, gather proof and evidence, formulate a plan to 'fix' it and then back-stop that plan with contingency plans that cover every possible twist or turn she might take you on. You cant control HER, nor the nature and placement of every possible road-block that she will throw in your way to avoid being accountable.
As Tanner suggests, start with the 180. It can help you to experience some peace and sanity in this early time, while you really assess your situation. This will allow you to stabilize the things that are actually in your exclusive control - and put you in the best state of mind to decide how (or if) to move forward. YOU need to focus on YOURSELF first.
Affairs are like house-fires - and DDay is like you standing on the sidewalk in your underwear at 3:00 AM with flames and smoke and flashing lights and firemen all around - still stunned from being shocked out of a sound sleep.. Now is NOT the time to process why your partner is standing 50 feet away in a party dress next to a stranger while holding a flame-thrower as she yells over to you; "This was an accident! You made me do it! I'm not sure if I liked the house anyway! This is YOUR fault! I love you! You can't prove ANYTHING!!"
Do the 180. With only yourself in mind, take in some oxygen. Clothe and feed yourself. Shelter yourself. Sleep. When the smoke has cleared, come back in the light of day to critically assess what is REALLY left and what cannot be salvaged. Decide if you want to rebuild, or move on. Best to you.

Should I let her know that I saw their texts?

Never reveal your sources.

Should I give her the "What Every WS Needs To Know" to read? I dunno. I don't want to guide her through how to make it right.

If you do make sure there’s no reference to the site on it. You don’t need her reading your posts here.

On the note of guiding her, I take it she’s been doing diddly squat so far on her own. Not ordering books on infidelity, not researching on the internet or posting on forums asking for advice. If she googled "healing from infidelity" in five minutes she could compile a list of resources thicker than the walls at Fort Knox.

If you do decide to print it out and give it to her I’d add the books How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair and Not Just Friends. Just plop them down in front of her and don’t say a word. See what she does. Watch her actions, and note what she doesn’t do.

If she hasn’t read the books and put in notice at her job in two weeks I’d walk.

Anky398 you have a P.M.

Sorry you are here.

There are many things I want to say to you, but I want to keep this short. I also want you to know that everything I say is done with the best of intentions and not to hurt you in any way.

... As has already been mentioned... short of putting a gun to someone's head or blackmailing them, there is absolutely nothing you can do to make someone change or do as you want. Your girlfriend has got to want to change herself, not that you want her to change. She is still in the so-called "fog" up to her neck. (Look up Limerence). She does not want to change or take the blame. Until she changes her own mindset nothing will change.

... Tanner mentioned implementing the 180. You can find it on this website in The Healing Library under Frequently Asked Questions where it says "Also please see the BS FAQ, etc.". "The Betrayed Spouse" about 1/3 down the page. It is Question #11 and it begins as "What is the 180 and how does it work?"

https://survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/faq/bs/?FAQ=11

The 180 is a very powerful tool in your recovery arsenal. There are 33 points in the 180. None of them tell you to be cold or rude to your GF. They tell you to remain pleasant in her presence.

They also tell you to never show how much you are hurting to her... because, since her affair was all about her and she still is in her affair mindset, then she either does not care how deeply she hurt you, or else she can't see past her nose at this point.

You said she starts crying when you bring up her affair. Well, point number #19 of the 180 tells you to back off beginning any talks about her affair until she brings them up. "Initiate no such conversation". It also says it may be quite a long time before she does. She should get to the mindset where she sees the damage she did to you and how much it broke you. At that time she should have true empathy for you. She does not at this point. As long as she is in her self-preservation mode any conversations you now initiate is only going to be one sided.

What the 180 teaches you is that the past is the past and there is nothing that can be done to change it. The 180 teaches you to get on with your life. She can either join you in your future or not. I am saying this as gently as I can... She Had Already Mentally Checked Out of Your Relationship When She Had Her Affair. I know you are scared about the unknown scary future... especially a future that possibly does not have her in your life. That is a subject that your IC can help you with.

One other thing. Do Not, repeat Do Not share this website with her. This is your Safe Space. Only when she has had a total mind change should she even know about what you are posting. I know you understand this.

Good luck to you.

Tanner, lrpprl, thank you very much for you answer. I will read the 180.

Sadly, from what I see, past month I already broke a lot of points. Due to my "pick me" dance, trying to be conciliating, and fear of a breakup.
I will further edit this post later and explain what I did. I will also explain how I see some of the 180 points apply to my situation.
Just wonder if I can change my attitude now...

Can she read english? If so, buy the book How to Help your Spouse Heal from your Affair by Linda McDonald. That will give her perspective and ideas on what she should be doing.

Double post

[This message edited by Trdd at 5:38 PM, Thursday, October 19th]

I will also explain how I see some of the 180 points apply to my situation.

When I found SI and the 180 seemed counter productive, "this will push her further away". "How can I get her back by detaching?" First and foremost the 180 is not a manipulation tactic, you cannot fake or bluff your way through it. It is deciding that "Today i draw a line in the sand and refuse to spend one more second being victimized and abused by infidelity". 180 means to turn and go the opposite direction. Second its not a tactic to win her back, the pick me dance does not work, we have all been there. The best advice I received was to be willing to let go of the outcome and work on healing myself.

You've been given good advice already.

From what you describe your GF is not really remorseful for how she betrayed you. She's just unhappy that you and your relationship is broken by what she did. That's not remorse, that's self interest in her comfort. That she confessed herself is the only sign of remorse I see. It really seems like she was forced to confess, or you would be told.

I want to second contacting OM's wife without notice to your gf. Another is to speak with your neighbor. You already know your gf has been untruthful in her confession. Her confessing on her own is a positive sign, but only if it wasn't forced by someone else. The neighbor. The OBS. Or even the AP. AP If any of them were threatening disclosure her confession could have been her trying to preempt that and spin it as much as she could. Compare notes with the other wife and find out what your neighbor saw. Pay attention to how your GF reacts if AP tells her about you reaching out to the wife. If she's upset that means she's still mentally defending him over you, and you should eject her from your life as quickly as possible.

Conversation with a friend

Yesterday I talked to my best friend a lot about this situation. Some points out of this conversation:

1) He agrees this is not my fault. All the issues my GF was pointing out were blameshifting. They could be resolved in any other way, or she could just leave. Her actions were not adequate to the issues.

2) There might've been other men. He pointed out one of her friends, whom I was suspicious about earlier. I'll try to follow up on that.

3) He said that this whole situation in his opinion is too much to process:

+ How long it was going on. It wasn't some ONS, it was long term, with thousands of lies and whole logistics around it;

+ That it will haunt me in the future - either I become a controlling partner (which is not in line with my character) or I will be always uncertain about her whereabouts, going out, etc. Always worrying that it might happen again.

+ That it was a work romance - that in his opinion is particularly sickening. He pointed out that I got her that job. Through my boss, who is very close friends with that firm founders (they know each other for like 20 years from highschool). So, almost certainly, people gossiped at their firm - people gossip about much lesser topics. You can't hide a romance between a director level employee with a coworker, especially if it went for a year, included going on several work trips together, and a lot of company parties.

So: (i) people in their firm most probably know about it; (ii) so there is a probable chance that my boss knows about it.

Furthermore, their firm is our client in a lot of cases, so I contact the said founders sometimes. Now I have to assume that they also know about the affair.

So my friend pointed out: look at the situation she got you into.

That is just too much to overcome.

4) We talked about how hard would it be to commit to develop the relationship in the future. Let's say getting married. Am I supposed to kneel before a woman who I know was cheating on me and lying for me for over a year and ask her to become my wife? My brain can still imagine it (as I said, I'm a puppy), but deep down it doesn't feel right.

So, having all that conversation we came to a conclusion that breakup is the most rational thing to do.

I don't have to say that on emotional level it's very very hard. It was 8 years of my life. I devoted almost my entire 20s to that girl. I was so happy with slowly building life together, going on a lot of trips, renovating our place for us to live, watching her grow. It really hurts seeing it how it went.

However, I just don't feel ready for a breakup now...... I really wanted to maybe to couples therapy or something to make it work, but I kinda lost the point now. I don't know what to do. Breaking up is hard and staying is hard.

[This message edited by Isthereapoint at 2:03 PM, Sunday, December 17th]

Re; informing her AP's wife - Yes, she should know. I personally would be VERY careful about how much you interact with his wife.. shared trauma can cause lots of feelings. If you want to reconcile with your girlfriend, it would also be very hard to do it while being friends with, or maybe even having feeling for, her ex-boyfriend's wife. I agree with not divulging your sources. It's not up to you to convince her of the affair. The business travel and other details would be enough.

Your conversation with your friend seems very clarifying - but you should also try to bring the infidelity into your IC sessions. It's the biggest thing on your mind, it should get the attention. Depression is terrible to experience, and life-long depression is a burden - but the affair is aggravating your depression. If you're 3 sessions in and you haven't been able to bring up the most impactful thing in your life - you're either actively avoiding it, or your therapist is missing some cues. It's important that you bring it up.

No-one's ready for a breakup. But, as painful as they are, breakups are simple adjustments compared to reconciliation with a resistive or hostile adversary. I use the word 'adversary' here because she is NOT your partner, may NEVER have actually behaved like a partner and will need to do EXTENSIVE work to possibly become a safe partner. Right now, you're not in a relationship - you're in a situation. Reconciliation is about becoming better people and finding a NEW and functional relationship to replace the one that failed. It's a massive undertaking. If you try to reconcile just because you're not ready for a breakup, your focus will be on not breaking up and you'll just put your OLD relationship back together. Do that and you'll be back here in 2 or 3 years... just like me.

Grubs, suddenlyisee, thank you very much for your feedback.

From what you describe your GF is not really remorseful for how she betrayed you. She's just unhappy that you and your relationship is broken by what she did. That's not remorse, that's self interest in her comfort.

This is very accurate. After yesterday she said that "she regrets that she hurt me but she doesn't know if she regrets the whole thing", and "what, am I supposed to wear a sack of penance now?" - I see it very clearly. I also know her for years, I knew much earlier that she is that kind of person. She never takes the blame for any of her words, actions. I saw her doing this to her family and friends. I was fully aware that she is like that, but well, that didn't stop me from loving her. And now she's doing exactly the same to me.

Good call for talking to the neighbour. Even if he just gonna tell me that he saw them kissing. However, we still live there and I see him almost every day, so it's gonna be awkward. I'm the cuckold.

If you're 3 sessions in and you haven't been able to bring up the most impactful thing in your life - you're either actively avoiding it, or your therapist is missing some cues.

I was avoiding it, focusing on my earlier mental state / thinking patterns issues.

If you try to reconcile just because you're not ready for a breakup, your focus will be on not breaking up and you'll just put your OLD relationship back together. Do that and you'll be back here in 2 or 3 years... just like me.

Thank you for sharing that, that is very eye-opening.

Communicating with GF

I have some troubles in communicating with my GF, while aiming to implement the 180.

As I said, my GF tries to be sweet, kind, nice now. (And for past month I fallen for that, responding with love words, kisses, hugs (histerical bonding, pick me dance, taking the blame mechanisms)).

For example, today I left to work without talking to / kissing her (just "hi" and "goodbye") and now she randomly texted me "Are you there, my Honey?"

From what I understand from 180, I'm not to ignore her, not be nasty, angry or cold; just be calm, mildly indifferent, not overly enthusiastic, loving, caring etc.?

How should I communicate with her, if she's trying to be lovely now?

[This message edited by Isthereapoint at 2:05 PM, Sunday, December 17th]

To the OBS:

"My name is X. I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I discovered your H has been in an adulterous affair with my GF since at least [whatever] and I have proof. How you deal with your H is of course up to you but I would like to at least briefly speak with you to verify you have received this message and not your H, and see if you’d like the proof I have."