SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Survrus makes a good point in the masturbation. That almost certainly was going on if there was sexting.

survrus, you have a pm

Hey Peaceoff. Wanted to see how you've been doing.

^^^^

What they all said.

Since it is her boss I would go to personnel and get him fired, or threaten a lawsuit, or blackmail the guy, or tell him he can avoid exposure if you tie him to a chair and punch his lights out.

Don't threaten anyone, even in jest, you could end up in jail.

Go to their company personnel office, be pleasant, be professional, tell them only what you know, that the boss of your wife has been sending inappropriate sexual texts to her, and that YOU expect a full report back after the investigation is completed. However, in my workplace BOTH parties get fired.

If you don't feel comfortable going in, send a certified letter, return receipt requested.

Then, go to personal injury attorneys and shop this around.

Not sure where you live, but 30 years ago this was a million dollar settlement in the USA.

Your wife may be irresistible, or think she is right now, but she's likely not the only one he has played this game with. This behavior is career ending in many fields now.

As for PA or not?

Unfortunately, most of the time the PA starts very rapidly, even with people who have little or no sexual appetite, when the opportunity for forbidden, illicit, dangerous and damaging sexual activity arises in combination with someone who has poor boundaries.

At this point, all you know is that she has extremely poor boundaries.

Hey Peaceoff. Wanted to see how you've been doing.

Thanks for checking in, dontlookbackinanger.

It's been a roller coaster ride so far. On the high, we've talked and shared things with each other, we didn't in the last 15 years. We has sex more than we have in the last year. I thought we were on the right track.

On the low, she admitted that she has fallen out of love with me. I was probably hoping for a more favorable reaction from her.

I know we need to discover our lost connection, but given she still feels nothing in spite our baring our souls and love making, make me anxious on the road ahead.

Yeah… I got a similar version of that (as have MANY here).

My WW couldn’t bring herself to say the infamous "I love you, but I’m not in love with you" trope. Instead I got, "I’m just not THERE with us anymore". Same difference.

It’s all b-lls—t! A fantasy from dopamine and endorphin hits.

Read about limmerance and affair fog.

If there’s one thing I’ve come to absolutely believe thru people I’ve talked to and everything I’ve read and explored about "love" and "being in love" as a result of all this…

LOVE is a VERB. It is action and a pattern of actions, it is not a feeling.

Love is NOT a feeling, it’s a commitment to love everyday… emotionally and physically

The idea of love as a feeling and "being in love" is more biochemical than anything.

Every single relationship will get boring after you’ve been together so long

It’s not always "sparks", laughs, smiles and fun…

It can get hard… people tend to quit when it stops being fun and gets hard… and simply decide they have "fallen out of love".

That is also a choice.

And finally, no one will always love you the way YOU want/expect them to. A lot of relationship problems come from miscommunication of love. We love in our own way, find ourselves expecting the same kind of love when it’s sometimes not possible. It’s not a bad thing, but it’s hard to remember sometimes.

I told my WW all of the above and that early on, if she wanted… that "excitement" that comes with "being in love"… those "sparks of passion we had at the beginning"… that I felt sorry for her because the only way to feel that consistently would be to move from new relationship to new relationship. Some people will do that. But it wasn’t for me.

Not that I don’t want some kind of excitement and passion, but we would never again have those early "feelings"… even for us, it was the fantasy that kept us together long-enough to move to a more mature love.

Which she did f-up, but we’re working our way back I hope.

Took her a VERY LONG time to pull out of the affair fog. Some never do or it takes too long for the BS to keep going. You have to figure that out for yourself.

What you haven’t updated is whether you feel you’ve got the truth from her. Again, as many of us have cautioned, you probably haven’t. After that, it’s whether you want to R and both of you doing the work, her in particular and respecting your boundaries and consequences.

It is NOT easy. I freely admit, I’m doing more work than my WW right now and that’s not how is should be, but that is my choice for now and I need to live with the consequences. We all have our own reasons to stay in a less than optimal R situation.

As always, wish you all the best. Come here as often as you need, but you will get tough love at times.

——
Probably a lot of typos

Peaceoff,

I would urge you to read as many stories here as you can. You will soon find any BH who tries to "nice" their WW back to the M has a 100% failure rate. Most women react to that with a loss of respect for their BH, since they perceive a passive reaction to a horrific insult as weak, and are further repulsed. You’ll also read what has been borne true: "You must be willing to truly lose the M for any chance to save it". It’s time to start playing hardball. Your WW doesn’t currently respect you. Doing the following just *might* cause her to start respecting you again:

1. File for D. As you serve her, tell her that if SHE convinces you to stay by meeting ALL of your conditions for R prior to D being final, you might consider R.

2. Demand a full written timeline. Give her no more than 24 hours to write ALL of it out. Then have her READ that timeline to you. You retain a copy.

3. You book a polygraph. Have the examiner ask her if the timeline is 100% accurate and complete. Also ask if she’s *ever* even kissed someone else since you’ve become a couple. Also ask the same for ANY sexual contact in ANY method with ANY person. Passing the polygraph ought to be one of your conditions to consider R.

4. Tell the boss’s wife ASAP. You do this personally, without any warning to anyone, especially your WW.

5. Other minimum requirements for R should be: quit her job YESTERDAY; enforce a zero privacy rule with any devices, sm, etc.; she pays for IC, eventual MC, and any other costs this shit-show has incurred; she must inform her family and yours what she has done, and she asks both families to support YOU should you choose to offer the gift of R.

If she doesn’t experience any consequences (these are NOT "punishments", but instead the natural outcome of her choices) then there’s zero hope for your M. Since it seems you desperately want R, I so hope you take what I’ve written seriously. It’s truly your only hope. I’m also sorry to say the odds are low she’ll agree to all the above. Believe me when I say if she doesn’t do all of this, and do it all eagerly, your chances of R are also about zero, unless your definition of a successful R is white-knuckling it with ulcers anytime she’s out of your sight. Do you truly want to live that way??

Like dontlookbackinanger mentioned, we all have our reasons to want to R.

For me, it's two young kids (9 and 11). At least one thing both me and my WW strongly agree upon, is not to ruin their lives. My WW is a great mom

I know she has irreparably damaged what we had with her selfish actions, I also know that staying together just for children doesn't always work, since it's better to separate than to have a continuous hostile family environment.

However for now, we are both willing to give it a shot at R and work on a few things to make each other likable again.

There is no guarantee that this won't again, and that's not in my control. If it does, we'll make the harder decisions then.

PeaceOff,

One thing which is very unfair is that you said your WW will leave the job and not her boss, it seems the boss should be canned or sued.

Her leaving the job will create less financial support for your children.

PO,

My WW is a great mom

Just want to gently challenge that. I’m guessing you mean WW seems to treat the kids well. But let me ask you this:

* Do great moms sext their bosses?
* Do great moms risk blowing up their families for cheap adulterous thrills?
* Do great moms behave in ways that would destroy the dad if discovered?
* Do great moms betray their children by conducting sexual affairs with others?
* Do great moms send sexual pics over the internet, risking their kids seeing them one day?

I could go on. It’s time to take her off the "Great Mom" pedestal you’ve placed her on!

My cheating H was a great dad.

I tried for months but could tell he was not "all in" on Reconciliation. But I kept saying he’s going to turn around and those feeling will Return.

Yeah they returned when I finally had enough. I told him I was D him. And then I did the hard 180.

Funny how I suddenly became the love of his life. ROFLMAO.

But I can tell you who wears the pants in the family now.

Peaceoff my friend- our situations and approaches (my initial approach anyway) are so similar it's very freaky for me.

When I have time, I will post more, but I have to throw all my support behind gr8ful and I probably won't be as gentle.

She is not a great mom. I'm so sorry.

I felt that EXACT same way about my WW early on.

But gr8ful is absolutely right, for all those reasons she listed and more. She's just not. Maybe she was and maybe she can be again, but a "great mom" does not do what she did, no matter what the context.

I'd encourage you to go and read some mother's day cards. Read the sentiments in them and ask yourself honestly, does this truly describe my wife as the mother of my children?

I still can't buy her a mother's day card... or many cards for that matter. One of the many mind f--ks this does to you.

If I choose to buy a card it needs to be blank so I can write something I truly feel.

Few other areas I will weigh in on later. Again, feel a bit connected given how similar our situations are in many ways, thought I'm a good year further down the road than you.

All the best.

[This message edited by dontlookbackinanger at 11:26 PM, Tuesday, November 14th]

Hey Peaceoff- hope you’re doing ok.

I wanted to come back and weigh-in again, because, as I’ve said a few times, our situations aren’t entirely dissimilar.

After two moves toward D, I decided to stay.

The first time I thought to pull the plug was right in the heat of all the emotions shortly after the first Dday. But I took advice not to make such a hasty decision.

And so we tried the "work".

But it was rough. At times she moved into a spare room for a bit. I went and stayed with friends off and on because there was so much Trickle Truth (TT) resulting in additional discoveries of things she’d done during her 5-6 month period of when "she was in a bad space" (her words).

And three months after Dday and her "working" on things which basically meant she’d done the obvious things eg. deleted all gaming apps with chat function (how she met her EA AP), got a new phone number, 100% transparency on devices, etc.. but critically she wouldn’t do IC, we were out on a ‘date’ where she broke-down and basically told me she still "didn’t feel what she wanted for me."

Sound familiar?

I simply couldn’t take it anymore and started talking to a lawyer again bout D and told my WW as much. The pain she was inflicting through her lack of coming clean and being serious about work on R started to outweigh my fears of D.

That snapped her back… a bit.

So thinking of my two kids (a few years older than yours) and the thought that if my wife and I break-up, it would blow-up their lifestyle. I decided to stay, back then.

Part of me wishes I had gone through with the filing the second time I wanted to do it, but I wasn’t emotionally and mentally ready for it. I will admit I’m still probably not.

However, what has happened between then and now is that the fear of D and its consequences has lessened for me.

So I find myself in my current state.

Our household is calm. We are still in the same bed and bedroom and there is somewhat regular intimacy.

She professes to love me and to be back "in love with me" (I honestly don’t care about that anymore) and she has been remorseful (not just regretful) and moves bit-by-bit in the right direction, but then we’ll have a backslide. The 2-steps forward, 1-step back dance.

And when I say backslide, she isn’t doing what she had been doing when she was in her affair fog, but she lacks a certain level of empathy at times, pushing against the boundaries that make me feel safe, and this results in some pretty severe triggering for me. Her refusal to be introspective about the "whys" of what she did doesn’t help.

It’s maddening and painful, but I’ve come to accept it for now.

We are able to talk about things to a certain point until she withdraws, completely unfair on her part. What I recognize is that there is something very broken in her that she wants to avoid dealing with and I can’t force her.

I accept there are those who will say I should not allow this behavior from her and that I’m staying for a lot of the wrong reasons. These people include my very best friend in the world, my siblings who know and advice from the good people here on SI. I know this. And it sucks.

I have a personal, outside marker in terms of how much longer I will accept our situation and the rate of progress of our R and her working on herself. However, I do reserve the right to end it if and when it becomes too emotionally and mentally unhealthy because we aren’t making the progress I need.

One other thing I will say is that when my WW was hit with the reality that I was absolutely serious about D those couple times, it really snapped her back. I’m not recommending using it as a tactic to get someone to change, no way, that is the last thing anyone should do. The point was, I wanted to do it FOR ME, not to get some kind of change of heart out of her.

But it absolutely has an impact.

What’s my point in sharing all this with you? I guess it’s to show, what you are trying to do can be done, but at HUGE costs to your emotional and mental well-being.

You need to decide what you can bear and living with the consequences.

I’m going to leave it here by asking whether you feel you’ve gotten the truth from your WW? It’s not out of some morbid curiosity or "pain shopping". Like everyone here, it’s out of a genuine want to support you. Because when the TT (trickle truth) starts, the rollercoaster really takes off and you’ll need all the help you can get.

Take care.

Peaceoff,

I'm so sorry you are wading through this pain.

I am a betrayed wife, not a wayward, so what you are about to get from me is my perspective not my experience.

In my opinion, most women value the emotional over the physical. Thus, their cheating often starts with emotional connections...and as they settle into the emotional affair, they detach emotionally from their spouse. This detachment then becomes further "justification" for the affair in the wayward's eyes. They think, "I'm not really in love with my spouse, so I'm getting my emotional needs met here. I deserve to have my emotional needs met."

I'm not saying that no woman has a mostly physical affair and some/many affairs happen because the wayward is getting compliments and they are emotionally needy for the ego boost. Those affairs happen too.

But I think the affairs where women invest deeply emotionally are very dangerous to the possibility of marriage recovery.

On top of that, your wife has seen herself as the "emotional high priestess" in your relationship and you mention that she is resistant to criticism. This will also impede real ownership of the affair and, thus, real change.

Be wary of thinking that the sex is a sign of healing or a turn around. (OK, I'm about to paint with a broad stroke here) Most women understand that, for men, the physical is fundamental for the emotional connection (and, IMO, women often see this flipped for themselves). So, she may be appeasing you with the physical. She knows what will placate you.

It's good that she is being honest with you that she's not "in love" with you at this point. It's awful (and dangerous) that she feels she's not in love with you. But, it's good she's being honest about it.

I worry that she's still idolizing her boss. He was never a fully "real" person during the affair. She didn't have to know or face his flaws (not in a real-world "I have to put up with these flaws longterm" kind of way)--yet his flaws surely do exist. So, he stays shiny and awesome in her mind. She could harbor a "the one that got away" mentality about him and continue to compare you unfairly and unfavorably to him. Or their relationship could go underground. So, be cautious.

Does the boss's wife know?

She deserves to. And him feeling the impact of consequences might help fully sever it emotionally between him and you wife.

Best wishes to you in this difficult path.

[This message edited by BreakingBad at 11:40 AM, Sunday, November 19th]

Has she found a new job? The alternative would be to report the sexting to HR and get him fired. If she’s all in with you she should be willing to do that.

Is he married or with a partner. If so, she should also be informed.

Sorry for the pain this is causing you.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 2:20 PM, Sunday, November 19th]

To the question of whether i know the whole truth, I'd say I'm confident of about 80% of her affair details.

Her timeline matches with my observations, now that i think back. When she claimed she was attracted to him, i did notice that she overhauled her wardrobe and would take more care getting dressed for work. Also, since we both have access to each other's phones, the pattern of deleting of chat history with her boss also matches the timeline of when she claimed the sexting started.

She has also been quite open about how she was the one who made the first move and what she felt with him, she hasn't felt with anyone before. Also that she had fallen out of love with me for a while now. Although thinking back, i don't recall any specific change in her behavior. We still made great memories all through.

Anyways, here we are, trying to find our lost connection, me trying to rebuild trust, and her trying to love me again.

I've read the suggestions to have strict boundaries for her, etc. Thinking deeply about this, i don't think i want to spend time obsessing over my W's every move. I hope she has learnt the seriousness of what she has done, and if she hasn't then there is really no point in making it work.

In fact, what I'm really pissed about, is the amount of time I'm spending in dealing with this right now and will probably have to spend over the next several years. I'm at my peak of my life right now (health, money, kids), and here I am reading every infidelity related stuff i can. Time she robbed from me, I'll never get back.

Boundaries are not about obsessing about their every move, punishing them or forcing them to change or take some kind of action. Believe me NOTHING you do can get them to change. They need to want to change and do the work.

Boundaries are about what YOU NEED to feel safe in order to heal. But they are meaningless without real consequences.

I made the mistake about waffling on them at the beginning... fearful of cementing in place her lack of not being "in love with me"... pushing her further away... etc.

Other members of SI who are better at articulating these things will certainly come along and explain what not setting boundaries will look like.

For me not having them meant the emotional rollercoaster was that much more extreme and un-ending it felt.

You need to understand, there is something broken in them. Without work, boundaries and consequences, you're setting yourself up for more pain.

Your last paragraph is spot on though. Look how much mental and emotional energy and actual time we now have given over to this horrible thing.

Healing is taking back some of that investment, but it takes a helluva long time, even if both people are doing the work.

Can I ask what work is she doing to help you feel safe?

As always, take care.

[This message edited by dontlookbackinanger at 7:31 PM, Monday, November 20th]

Can I ask what work is she doing to help you feel safe?

Here's what i can think of and what we discussed:
- Called, met and broke it off with AP within hours of discovery.
- Agreed to change jobs ASAP. She's due for her annual bonus and increment in a couple of months, so would be foolhardy to resign immediately without another job in hand.
- Strictly professional interaction with the AP (who is her boss). No causal conversations.
- No private messaging. Communicate through official channels or in group chat if required for business.
- Keep me posted when she is late at work or has to attend business events outside the workplace.
- Full access to her phone.

As you can see, i can't really enforce any of the above, and need to take her word for it. I'll have to observe to see if we are on the right track.

One recent altercation we had was about how much effort/time each of us is putting into this mess right now.

I'm losing my mind right now. This is on my mind almost 24/7. I'm anxious about the future. I've read several books, videos, etc. to help me understand my thoughts (If I'd read as much in college, I would've gotten better grades ). She answers all my questions, reads what i think is interesting, go through some exercises together, etc. Some of this has helped both of us.

She on the other hand has admitted hiding behind her work to avoid dealing with this and face me. She surely reflects off my mood, and seeing me grieving breaks her heart (so she claims). But she gets defensive whenever I try to question on what she is doing to help the healing. Her usual responses are "I've said all I had to ......", "You just want me to be down in the dumps all the time......"

Overall, she is waiting for me to get over the hurt and move on. I'm not sure if she is right, and I should be doing all the heavy lifting right now.

I tend to be rather direct, maybe because of a combination of the time since my personal experience with infidelity and the time I have spent on this site. I don’t really like mincing words…

See my tagline? If you are unhappy, then it is because you have decided to remain unhappy…

To me it sounds like you have camped out in Unhappyland, and are totally ignoring the dark clouds bunching up above you…

You give your wife and your present stay in infidelity a lot of excuses…

Like you can’t separate because of the kids, when people divorce successfully all the time with kids. Be clear on this: I am NOT telling you to separate or divorce, but rather telling you that using your kids as an excuse for inaction does not cut it…

Then you say she will get a new job as soon as she can. That’s like telling an alcoholic that they can stop working at a bar once they find a new career – while expecting them to stay sober.

Then you say it would be foolish to change jobs now due to bonuses and such… In other words – placed a financial value on your marriage… Friend – is her bonus large enough to cover the cost of divorce? Is it more valuable than the marriage or your mental health?

And yes – there is a need for action. There is no way to make a get-out-of-infidelity omelet without breaking some eggs…

Friend – and I do call you a friend because my direct language is because I CARE. If I didn’t give a hoot I would simply bypass this post and read up on my favorite sports team or whatever…

When dealing with infidelity you do need to accept some hard actions. The level of action… well… that depends on the commitment of the WS. I would like to outline some steps, many of them already mentioned but seemingly ignored by you…

First of all:

At what point in a relationship with a woman would you be confident enough to start sexting?

I’m old… In my world if you are interested in someone you try to charm them and entice them. Somehow sending dick-pics or letting them know how I get hard looking at them leaning over the photocopier would make me sound extremely creepy… But… I might do something of that nature to my wife… or an active girlfriend… someone that I am already intimate with and feel confident they will enjoy, appreciate, and even reciprocate what I send.

I seriously doubt you have the truth as to the extent of their relationship…

Add to the above the question of when the OM becomes confident enough to initiate or start this activity… You mention official channels and such, so I’m assuming the boss is not the sole owner of the business, but has a chain of command he has to respond to. I have a degree in finances and management, and it’s a long-established and basic business-rule that relationships between managers and their subordinates are heavily frowned upon and in most cases a career-killer.

So how does the boss become confident enough in his interactions with your wife to start sexting?

Knowing that if she can complain to HR about sexual harassment, that he’s risking his career…

No – to me what you describe is something that happens once a border has been crossed. Two coworkers with plenty of time over the day… they can easily find time to be together, be it in a meeting-room, vehicle, home, office…

Then there is her promise of keeping it professional…

Friend – That is like her going to an AA meeting but always keeping a sixpack of beer in her vehicle…

Yes – the fear of him losing his job or the fear of his wife learning about the affair MIGHT keep it down. But… each and every day you are sending your wife to the place where she has 8 hours each and every day to be looked at and coveted by him or for her to look at and covet him. That five-minute break in the coffee-room when they are alone and check in: "Things OK at home? Is PeaceOff calm?", or "we need to keep low – for now…" or whatever. Or even worse… that moment after a meeting when they discover they are alone and have time for a quick kiss, fondle, grasp and…

None of this might happen – but the fear of it happening should be preventing you from recovering.

To hark on about it… The boss? If he has the morals that allow him to have an affair with a subordinate then he also has the morals to be protecting his marriage and career… You can 100% guarantee that at the next performance meeting, next order to cut down staff or whatever… your wife will be on the block. If he has accepted to end the affair it is totally for selfish reasons, and not for her or your family.

I can tell you what I would want you to do, knowing you won’t. I will follow that up with my second-best alternative:

What I would want you to do is tell his wife. It only needs something like "I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I have discovered messages with sexual content between my wife and your husband. I feel you should know because they are working together and I feel like this could possibly be more extensive than I know of now, or could become more extensive if not stopped now"

I would also let HR know. I would make it clear that if your wife is fired or in any way negatively impacted then you will sue the shit out of them for sexual harassment. Frankly – the boss could have walked in on your wife naked and on his desk one morning, and his ONLY correct response would have been to refuse and give her a warning. No matter who initiated. I would consider making them the offer of this problem going away if your wife has a good severance package (including bonus) and top-recommendations.

The above will 100% end the affair – unless the boss and your wife decide that they want each other. In that case there isn’t any way anyways to save your marriage. But frankly the disposable way they seem to have reacted indicates that this is the stereotypical man-in-position-of-power using his power and then disposing of his toys once threatened.

Your wife won’t be happy… but the affair will be over and the reality of it very clear to her. Somehow being told by lover-boy that they need to go and there is no future is a real turn-off…

Know you won’t do the above, so here is my alternative:

Think the situation through: What would be the absolute worst outcome from this affair?

I hear you thinking "divorce".

I want you to really think… How does discovering maybe 2-6 months from now that the affair is still ongoing? I think being in infidelity and remaining in infidelity is immensely worse than divorce.

I willingly admit this is a bit like the questions kids ask: Would you want to be decapitated or shot? Both bad results, but maybe one could be seen as "less bad"…

I suggest what many posters here might recognize as a deviation of my standard confrontation speech:

"Wife – I love you and want to save our marriage. However I have realized that the minute you decided to initiate an affair with OM is the minute I lost you as my wife in the normal definition of that title. At best I shared you with another man.

I don’t share my wife. I don’t want to be thinking if she has been with someone else, is thinking of someone else or pines for someone else.

I would do A LOT to make this work, but I refuse to share you. While you are in any proximity to OM and while you don’t commit to our marriage I am simply assuming you have decided to remain in infidelity. You have decided to let me share you. I don’t share my wife…

I have also realized that nothing I did or did not do justifies or made you have to decide to cheat on our marriage. This was totally 100% your decision, and no matter how you justify it to yourself, I am not shouldering an ounce of blame or accountability. Our marriage could have been better, but your conscious decision to have an affair was NEVER the correct response to whatever problem -real or not – you thought we had as a married couple.

Therefore, I am setting you free. You are free to pine for OM, to be with OM, to spend as much time in his proximity as you want and whatever. You don’t have to show me your agenda or try to convince me there is nothing going on. It’s not possible because while you work together you have more opportunities than I can cover, and your past history shows you are capable of deception. I’m simply assuming by your choices and actions that you have decided to make the affair a priority over the marriage.

I am starting the work of detaching. The further along I go the more pressing it will be to do so formally as well, but there is no real rush. We just accept that as-is our marriage is doomed. We can divorce in a way that minimizes negativity for the kids, but it’s better for them to come from divorced parents rather than live in a home based on no respect, discord and depression. There are laws and processes that will ensure both our rights and make this as fair as possible.

If you want this marriage, you need to let me know AND follow through with actions. Actions like changing jobs NOW and showing me that you are accepting your accountability for your decision to cheat. Actions like IC to deal with why you thought this was something that was OK to do. Actions like giving me an accountable truth that I can believe."

And then you just go and have a shave, or make a sandwich, or mow the lawn… Basically you have stated your case and there isn’t anything left to argue about.

She tells you she had to cheat because you were distant and cold: "I’m sorry you feel that way. If you were committed to the marriage and to ending the affair then this is something we could address. Since you hang on to the affair there isn’t any need for us to go there".

This is your standard go-to answer to ANY argument she might have.

What discussions are you willing to participate in?

What can I do to show you I am committed to the marriage? Quit the job. Now. Have the initiative of convincing you she is not in contact (open social media, phone, agenda, e-mail…). Make a booking with an IC.

If I quit now, I lose the bonus – answered by: Either we TWO (not only her…) have a meeting with OM offering you quit if he gives her a golden parachute or you TWO go to HR and state your case. Worst-case is that she is fired without the bonus – a short-term financial backstep for your marriage, but simply being away from OM would be a more important long-term step forwards.

If she wants to talk divorce: No. You don’t discuss that in detail. Its more "I am too emotionally attached to our marriage. When I reach the stage of detachment where I think divorce is the logical progression I will place the process in the hands of an attorney that can guide us both to the fair and equitable resolution. Regarding the kids and custody we can at that time research what is the best outcome.

NONE of the above is done as punishment or revenge for the affair.

NONE of the above is to make you divorce.

In fact – IMHO it’s all the key to reconciliation.

The above is totally 100% geared to getting YOU out of infidelity – and if she wants to be on that journey with you then she will follow.

Edited to add:
As a manager I have sat a couple of intense meetings where the future of couples in affairs have been discussed. In both instances firing the subordinate NEVER was an option because doing so opens up an extremely hard-to-defend-against possibility of sexual harassment. The subordinate was “forced” into the affair by the managers power, the ability to increase perks and pay and tasks… Your WW job is not in danger per se. However – the manager is at great risk. If the company wants to keep him, it will be with some stern conditions on him – including your wife no longer being his subordinate. Possibly a change of department for her but never a negative change. Even then… I can more-or-less promise you both she and the manager will be cut from the company at the earliest convenient (long enough from this incident to be directly connected to it) moment.
In the instances I had a part in dealing with the subordinate accepted a promotion to another department and the managers got written warnings. One left on his own accord within six months, the other was fired within 2 years. The two subordinates? One quit within the year, other still works at my place of employment.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 12:17 PM, Wednesday, November 22nd]

Peaceoff- I also say "Friend' in the same way Bigger has.

Your situation as described is EXACTLY where I was at the start. Particularly about the 'indifference' and 'avoidance' your wife is demonstrating. That was and, to some degree, still is my WW. Heard so many times, "I've nothing more to say on it... I've told you everything..." and not in so many words, but really just wants me to move on.

And I am still here going against a lot of the great advice and observations Bigger has put out there. I couldn't add anything more honestly.

But I'm BARELY here anymore. And it absolutely SUCKS!

Like so many here, I wish I'd found this place earlier and had someone like Bigger lay it out as they've done.

As I said before, you can muddle through as I have, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Mercifully the difference in my situation is that her main A was a long distance EA with a totally anonymous person that elevated to sexting over burner phone apps. So when final NC happened and her phone number changed, there was no way back. But that NC took THREE times to finally "take" and getting a new phone number. And that was an ANONYMOUS VIRTUAL A. The guy she picked up in the bar, moved away and WW got the new phone number. Again, I got lucky there. But I'm not naive anymore, she could have been messing around with others too, but all my access to her devices would indicate it was those two.

Again, karma played a strong hand in NC.

Your WW has to be in physical proximity most days with her AP. If it took my WW three attempts to finally get to NC and I believe it is only because of anonymity/burner phone aspect (even after NC she still ran internet searches for derivatives of his fake name for a few months), I can't see how your WW will be able to "keep it professional". Sorry, that's the blunt truth.

Like almost everyone else here has also said, I can't believe she has given you the full truth. Ask her about a polygraph and gauge her reaction.

There are no 'good' outcomes from this. Only the least bad ones. You are clearly younger than me and that is a great asset in all this. I would implore you to listen to someone like Bigger.

I think I'm inevitably going to get to the D path, but after a long painful path that could have been made shorter.

So why am I advising you to do things I am not yet? I wish I had a good answer for that. I think it's partly the sunk cost fallacy at this point. I've made it to where I am and I'm a bit number in certain ways around this whole thing. I guess I'm a bit of a hypocrite, but I genuinely want to help someone avoid my path if I can.

Take care.

[This message edited by dontlookbackinanger at 1:56 PM, Wednesday, November 22nd]