SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hey TF,

It is WAY too soon to start MC together! She needs to go deep in IC over her INFIDELITY for a good long while, until she can at least have her why’s identified, shared with you, etc., before you even THINK about MC.

Ever last example of folks I’ve seen who ignored the advice to hold off on MC, came to later regret it. On the other hand, many can attest to the greater damage MC did when entered too soon, or even worse, with a rug-sweeping or blame-shifting counselor. VERY FEW MC’s PROPERLY HANDLE ADULTERY!

You are correct in that she needs to attend IC to deal with her brokenness that led to her ability to cheat. Your M didn’t fail. Your WW did. That doesn’t mean that your M could not benefit from couples counseling, but it does not resolve your main concern of your WW’s infidelity. If you do attend couples counseling do not allow the IC to imply that you or your M contributed to her infidelity. The infidelity is hers to own. Good luck.

At this point, I wouldn’t even dream of marriage counseling. MAYBE after at least 6 months of IC for her. She really needs a counselor that has infidelity and trauma experience. Most counselors with no experience in those matters cause a shitload of harm.

I hear you, people. I told her it's too soon for couple counseling. But she is fully convinced that it's the right time. She was saying, "We got the momentum here, and we both want to save this marriage. So, it totally makes sense that we go to CC. Since we are working out a plan to help each other, getting professional help for this is a smart choice."

I don't think her logic is wrong here. The only problem here is the possibility of us ending up with a bad CC. But if we get a good one, then things might just work. She requested that I take time to think about it. I asked my IC about this. She is of the opinion that it's not totally a bad idea to do CC when both the parties are truly interested in saving the marriage. She said there is no general rule that one must do CC after IC. The key is to do both, and both need to have a good C. She said, "Some people prefer CC after IC, and some others do both at the same time. Either approach is fine. At the end of the day, it's success depends on how good a C is and how much the couple wants to save the marriage."

Wishing you the best of luck, just be careful and don't let the desire to reconcile cloud your judgement

OP, you have every right to go against our collective wisdom. It’s your life. At the very least I would urge you to vet the counselor on their views on infidelity. You need to understand that they see their job as supporting the M at all costs - NOT the betrayed spouse and (usually) staying impartial to the infidelity. Like "it just happened". Many (most?) marriage counselors will blame you for part of her betrayal saying you didn’t meet her needs or some other BS like this. Then the unfaithful spouse grabs on to that with an iron fist to proclaim, "See! It was BOTH of our faults!" and just like that the rug-sweeping begins in earnest. This is the road to disaster. Can only hope you heed the warning.

Do not tolerate even 1% of blame for her choices. You were in the same marriage with the same challenges and yet YOU didn’t cheat. She could have responded a million other ways to her unhappiness but she instead CHOSE betrayal. Don’t tolerate the suggestion this was her "oops" or a "mistake". No, she made hundreds, if not thousands, of DECISIONS to betray you.

If you’re insistent on starting MC now, start by asking a series of questions to the counselor how specifically they view infidelity, do they believe "unmet needs" is even partly responsible, etc. If there’s even a whiff of this, DROP THEM IMMEDIATELY. You should also tell your wife you’ll be doing this and you will never at any point accept ANY responsibility for her MANY decisions to betray you. Ever.

Twinflamed, CC works best when both partners are in IC for sometime and in healthier space.
Right now your wife for sure isn’t and I highly doubt you are too. Her attempt at ending her life is making you move at 100 mph. She’s rushing your healing. The speed at which you are moving will be a temporary quick fix but once all this is settled down, you will still have this unsettling feeling. By then, life and your wife would have moved on , had kids and you will not want to rock the boat.

I'm sorry OP, but reading your thread is very frustrating. I so wantvto see you survive this. Human behaviour is sadly predictable given enough experience and observation, which is the aggregate wisdom of this place . So, okay. Here is one piece of advice from me.

If your MC asks you about how your behaviour contributed to the environment which made it conducive for your WW to have an affair, then ask her to replace you with your wife and affair with decision to beat your wife. That should shine a light on the victim blaming fallacy.

My MC tride this and I shut her down in a New York minute.

But seriously, take the wisdom of those who have go e before, seriously.

[This message edited by Justsomeguy at 1:25 AM, Tuesday, April 9th]

I would recommend c because of the issues you have it can also help if you'd where you can do parent and help both f you deal with your WW issues.

Never underestimate a suicide attempt. Some things you can not have back.

She was saying, "We got the momentum here, and we both want to save this marriage. So, it totally makes sense that we go to CC. Since we are working out a plan to help each other, getting professional help for this is a smart choice."

Sorry, but this reads like a scam, in that it is a sales proposition with a limited-time or too-good-to-be-true offer. It is a sales pitch. Caveat Emptor.

Firstly, what is this 'momentum' she is referring to? Is it that you are still by her after her attempt? Is it because you are still talking to her? I think it would be good to try and get your WW to define what this 'momentum' is, and why she thinks there is momentum.

Couples Counselling works best when both parties are level headed. Your WW just attempted to take her life. What makes her level headed?

She needs to sort out her head first before even thinking about CC. What makes her think that without sorting her mind out, that she will not find another twin-flame again, or go back to her original twin-flame even after the CC session(s)?

Your WW is not remorseful and is not ready for MC.
You have been warned by multiple people but I'm going to share my experience so you may actually understand the problem going now vs after you both have had some time to heal and recover.
I was extremely codependent prior to recovering from my Hs A. My H pushed back on IC so I took the next best thing. So I thought. He was not remorseful yet. He was unknowingly to me breaking NC. We went to MC with a phenomenal therapist, but after each time we went I was a sobbing unhinged mess. While he was pissed for 2 days. This was because he was angry with being called out or given suggestions on how to be a better H. I was not necessarily made I to be the problem but due to my CoD nature I was blaming myself for things. My H didn't like me getting so upset because it made him feel guilty.
Once he finally pulled his head from his ass and fully committed to us things changed tremendously. But we did not need MC once that occurred. Our M was not the issue. He was. I was. We did our own work. But that did not happen until I kicked him out once I was fed up with the breaking NC. THAT IS WHAT CHANGED the dynamic. We often say here you have to be willing to lose the M to save it.

I seem to agree with you, people. I told my wife that CC, right now, is not a good idea. I told her that she needed to do IC specialized in infidelity before getting into CC. She was surprised and disappointed that I wasn't on board with her. She asked me why it was a bad idea to do CC now. I replied that I don't believe she is ready for it yet. I told her that she still doesn't fully understand what she has done to me. It's been more than 5 months since dday. We have had plenty of dialogue concerning her affair, and only a few times has she made attempts to understand the depth of my pain. Whenever I have a trigger or express my despair or anger through words or body language, she just hugs me and apologizes for her actions. I initially liked it because it's been a few years since I got that much physical affection and attention from her on a daily basis. But pretty soon it got annoying because, pretty much, that's all she ever did. Hug and apologize! She rarely asked questions to understand the severity of my pain. Either she doesn't want to go through shame and embarrassment by finding out how much her actions have hurt me, or she just simply doesn't care about my feelings. I am inclined to believe it's the former. 

Before her attempt at S, she always talked about how sorry she was, how stupid she was (for cheating on me), how much her inner emptiness was responsible for her actions, how much she wanted to save this marriage etc etc. It was mostly about her and rarely about me. After her attempt, after starting her therapy, the conversation is now about how much her therapy is helping her, how stupid she was (for not communicating with me about her issues), how she is now learning to look inward to fill her inner void etc etc. I am happy that she is digging through her issues, trying to understand and work on them, but I still feel frustrated that when I talk about my feelings, she immediately shuts down and goes into 'hug and apologize' mode. I pointed this out to her today. I called her out on how she is actively trying to avoid shame and embarrassment, and she is doing it at the expense of my feelings. This is precisely why she needs to do IC for infidelity asap. I explained to her that without sorting out her shame, she cannot heal herself. Also, she won't be qualified to help me heal either if she can't get past that dreadful shame. For God's sake, she is even reading book 'How to Help Your Spouse' and, yet, she somehow overlooked this very important detail. 

She got a bit defensive after I raised my concerns. She kept saying that she was trying and needed more time. I told her strictly that I was willing to wait, provided she did what I asked her to do. I promised her that I had no desire in my heart to punish or humiliate her or take away her agency. Everything I have been asking her to do is with the pure intention of helping her heal and work through her issues to become a safer and better person. She again kept repeating that she was trying. I reminded her that we have reached a stalemate. Unless she figures out how to deal with her shame, we can't move forward. To give her some hope, I told her that I was able to reform myself many years ago only after dealing with my shame. I gave her a day to think about it. This is where we are at.

Firstly, what is this 'momentum' she is referring to?

A month ago, I was talking about divorce and wasn't interested in communicating with her. She thought she had fully lost me. Now, the reverse is happening. I am not talking about divorce. Communicating well with her. We have expressed our intent to work on ourselves and this marriage. We also started taking steps in that direction. That's what she meant by 'momentum'. We have broken out of our past limbo. 

Your WW is not remorseful and is not ready for MC.

I am not sure about the remorse, but I am pretty sure she isn't ready for MC.

Right now your wife for sure isn’t and I highly doubt you are too. Her attempt at ending her life is making you move at 100 mph. She’s rushing your healing.

I agree.

If your MC asks you about how your behaviour contributed to the environment which made it conducive for your WW to have an affair, then ask her to replace you with your wife and affair with decision to beat your wife. That should shine a light on the victim blaming fallacy.

That's not a bad idea.

Firstly, what is this 'momentum' she is referring to?

A month ago, I was talking about divorce and wasn't interested in communicating with her. She thought she had fully lost me. Now, the reverse is happening. I am not talking about divorce. Communicating well with her. We have expressed our intent to work on ourselves and this marriage. We also started taking steps in that direction. That's what she meant by 'momentum'. We have broken out of our past limbo. 

Your WW is not remorseful and is not ready for MC.

I am not sure about the remorse, but I am pretty sure she isn't ready for MC.

Right now your wife for sure isn’t and I highly doubt you are too. Her attempt at ending her life is making you move at 100 mph. She’s rushing your healing.

I agree.

If your MC asks you about how your behaviour contributed to the environment which made it conducive for your WW to have an affair, then ask her to replace you with your wife and affair with decision to beat your wife. That should shine a light on the victim blaming fallacy.

That's not a bad idea.

Then the unfaithful spouse grabs on to that with an iron fist to proclaim, "See! It was BOTH of our faults!"

So far, she hasn't blamed me for her affair. So I am not too sure if she will proclaim such thing.

Thank you for your posts. They have been a great help.

TwinFlamed... I might have overlooked it, but I have gone back over your posts and I do not see anywhere you posted that your intimate desire for her has returned since Dday.

In a couple of posts you wrote that you felt "disgust" when you looked at her. A lot of people say that the opposite of love is indifference. I am of the opinion that the opposite of love is "disgust"... not indifference or hate. A person cannot love something that disgusts them. Do you still feel this way? Or, do you now have intimate desire for her?

It will be very hard to ever successfully reconcile if you look at her and feel disgust.

[This message edited by lrpprl at 1:55 PM, Wednesday, April 10th]

I have been intimate with her since Dday, but not in a sexual way. I have shown her affection and care. I just don't feel like having sex with her. I feel 'disgust' when I think of being sexually intimate with her. I feel massively triggered. It reminds me of her last birthday, when she went on a date and had sex with him. On that very day, she refused to have sex with me. Whether it was her AP's request or she was trying to spare me the sloppy seconds, I don't know. She claims it was the latter, but who knows?  If I decide to R, then I know I must overcome this feeling of 'disgust'. I will deal with it if it comes to that. But, right now, that's low on my priority list. 

I am of the opinion that the opposite of love is "disgust"

But 'disgust' is not a neutral emotion. It doesn't come from detachment. 'Indifference' is neutral and dethatched. Therefore, opposite of love is indifference.

A month ago, I was talking about divorce and wasn't interested in communicating with her. She thought she had fully lost me. Now, the reverse is happening. I am not talking about divorce. Communicating well with her. We have expressed our intent to work on ourselves and this marriage. We also started taking steps in that direction. That's what she meant by 'momentum'.

Still reeks of a scammers tactics. Once you open up a small gap, they will dive straight for it, and try and exploit the gap. She is exploiting the gap of no D talk, and pushing on it to open that gap wider until you give her full access. Once in, the scammer will start manipulating you to give them what they want.

We have broken out of our past limbo.

Am not too sure about this. A bit premature to think this, as you are still not clear headed enough to make a decision. It still looks like you are in limbo. Her attempt has kept you in limbo, and has even tipped you over to consider R even though both of you are not ready for that decision as yet.

Would suggest you discuss your thinking with your IC first. Get clarity on the situation before making a decision.

This is an easy one. No kids? Scram your butt outta there. Seriously. Just. Be. Done. With. It. Now way would I have bothered with R if no kids were involved. Even if you R, you still never shake that shitty memory of what they did.

Hi TF,

How have you been coping over the past few weeks?
Do you have an update for us?

Regards,
FAWH

How are you holding up, OP?