SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

First of all—I am just shy of 1 year into recovery and reconciliation, so your post is about an experience that I fear deeply. How can I really advise when you might just be further down the road I am on?

That said, what I am about to say might not be popular, but it has helped me in understanding how a man who DOES love me cheated on me. It has helped me articulate why I stay with a man who broke my heart. It helps me understand how he can be torn about by shame but still fear the part of him that did this to me.

I have spent a lot of time lately exploring the work of psychotherapist Esther Perel. Her work is on YouTube, but I recommend her book, The State of Affairs. It's taken months to be open enough to listen to what she has to say, but her approach has ultimately helped me see how our modern idea of marriage requires a lot of us—-more than it has asked of past generations. She talks about all sides of affairs with compassion, because no one is undamaged by an affair. Not the BS, WS, or the AP.

I can't say I am not still working through a lot of devastation. I am hardly healed, but her work...it's helped me to have her voice in my head to see that we live in a time where we are expecting from marriage an almost impossible combination of things, and so our failures to be everything to each other is not a personal failing. My spouse needed me to be his best friend, his lover, his caregiver--and a whole host of roles no one person should EVER have to fill. I expected the same of him. We are learning to renegotiate what we really can be to each other. Still working on that, so no answers to share!

I do want to say that you are not a fool for trying to rebuild after that first time. It is possible that you can love someone and hurt them. It is true that you can be hurt by someone and still love them. Marriage is a vast and complicated thing. It is a beautiful thing to believe that we can grow from failure, even in marriage. Trust can be an act of courage, especially in the face of the fact of your own vulnerability.

I might be back here in 10 years... but I will take that risk because I am complicated and so is the man I married.

Whatever your next step is, ground it in your own truth and trust yourself to find your way through something horribly human and complicated.

Just pull the plug. If he's going to really do the work, he'll do it regardless. You can always R after the D. If you D, you separate everything and finalize any financials. It's a hell of a lot better than a post nup for sure. Then, he has all the time in the world to fix his shit. You will be free to work on you. If he gets his shit together, great. If not, you've already done the hard part of starting over fresh.

Tiny update- he has been away at our retirement house for most of this time, returning on 12/22.

At the end of November, I had asked him for a full STD workup before we could continue even discussing our relationship. He happened to have a dr appointment already scheduled for something else, so I asked him to have STD tests added. I went onto his online healthcare portal (because I have all the usernames and passwords) and found his test results. He had a whole series of results, but no STD results. He also has a follow up on 12/26 with his doctor.

So I asked him today if he had gotten those test results back for the STD test. He said he didn't know and he would get them during the follow up appointment. I said "but you did get them done, right?" He said he did.

Which is a lie. They were not done.

I didn't call him on it yet, as I'm waiting to see what he says about the dr visit. Apparently he doesn't realize I have access to his health portal, so it'll be interesting to again see what he says to my face vs what he does.

He continues to disappoint me.

I'll also add-- we've been chatting on the phone nearly daily, which on the surface could seem like I was rug-sweeping the whole new PA. After he told me about the dr's tests, I did say "When you get back, I want to have a good sitdown with you. I haven't rug-swept this whole thing, but do not want to discuss things this important on the phone. I'm not sure when we'll be able to fit it in given all the celebrations and the kids coming home, but we do need to have a long talk."

So he knows that is coming.

For my part, I've started writing out what I want to say. It really is an amalgam of the posts here, with my own style. Before he lied about the STD tests, I was thinking there could be a very narrow path forward only if he went to IC weekly for a year. He has other issues to work through (childhood trauma and some PTSD from his job) and he really hasn't believed therapy has been necessary. However, this lie is huge to me-- the only thing I asked for right after finding out was to get that done.

Sorry that he continues to lie to you. It is so disappointing when you've given them every chance and they continue to lie.

Cut him loose. He's not worth this. He knows what this did to you the first time and he did it again. He just doesn't care.

Ester Perel?? Gag. Cheater apologist extraordinaire. Might just as well plan for your next D-Day because Perel blame shifts from cheater to chump.

Trapped- I like your tag... Happily detached and compartmentalized. My new goal!

Yeah, I would rather listen to a podcast about empathy by Jeffrey Dahmer than relationship advice from Perel. Five bucks says she is a wayward spouse.

You deserve better than this. He doesn’t even care enough to get a stupid pee and blood test, which is how they check for STD nowadays. (OB physician here, swabs are almost never needed). Ask him if they swabbed his penis. If he says yes, he’s full of it. Urine gc/chl tests are great. No one swabs penises anymore.

I hate this for you, but it’s so clear that he is terrible to you. You deserve better than this poor excuse of a man. I feel like you need to run away from his gaslighting to remember who you are.

Shared time is not a reason to waste your time. He sounds awful. Like less of a human being than the normal standard.

I’m so sorry. Run, girl. You’ll be ok. Run.

Personally, I feel that pretending to take std tests..and of course he will say they were negative..is as bad as an affair.

He is choosing OW..again. He doesn't think she had an std,I'm sure she told him she didnt..so he is choosing to believe her over your health..your life in some cases. He is purposely putting you at risk, because he believes her.

There needs to be a line that all BS draw,and once a ws crosses that line it should be game over. Putting your health at risk,because e chooses to trust her should be that line.

@Hellfire - the std lie is no doubt a gut-punch. Another one.

He is flying home today- he originally told me 12/22 but I saw in his email that he had the dates wrong. So today is the day I see him again. I promised him a 'talk'. I've been running through this talk (or random points of the talk) while hiking in the woods- this is my favorite place to process things. I've written it out. It isn't exactly in a good order, but my points are there.

@Bigger - either here or another post you said something like you need to get out of infidelity. This is exactly so- if I get gaslit/confused during our talk, I'll just keep coming back to this core phrase.

I'm stuck with the fact that all evidence indicates he is a lost cause. I feel if I try for a second R, for the first time I will experience shame. Not for being the victim of a cheater, not for the first R--- but shame in taking him back a second time. Like why don't I value myself enough to walk away when it is clear I'm not valued?

It is hard because I've always considered myself a pretty kick-ass woman, respected in my career, fairly strong and very competent in many/most? things. In my job, there were 2 occasions where I noticed something that I felt was morally wrong and privately met with the CEO to voice my concerns and was absolutely willing to take it to the Board of Directors if it wasn't appropriately addressed even at risk of losing my job.

Yet, WTF is wrong with me for struggling with this?

I did reach out for some IC- having trouble finding someone to take new patients. Christmas is a busy season, I guess.

I also sent a USPS certified letter to OBS. Delivery failure due to no signature. So I think it sits at their local PO until they go in an sign for it. If unsigned then at a date in January, it is a return to sender.

My very last idea is to call AP's number and create a story to get her H on the phone. Her number comes back to his name, so it isn't really out of whack. Any ideas here? I was thinking saying something to the effect of "I did a 23andme test and I'd like to talk with OBS because I think we are cousins." something like that.

[This message edited by HollyLou at 8:15 PM, Wednesday, December 20th]

I wouldn't call her.

Can you find out where he works,and send another letter there?

There is no information on if/where he works. I tried an old employer that came up on one of those internet searches, but they never heard of him. He isn't on any socials that I can find. He may be a SAHD for all I can determine. AP has a broad internet presence, employer, twitter, linkedIn, facebook etc. I tried looked at her connections/friends for him, nothing. The only consistent info was their home address.

Holly,

I totally get the shame perspective too. I was/am strong and competent in my former career and so many things but not this. Maybe I view it as a personal failure that I’m not ready to chalk up yet 🤷‍♀️.

I do have to say I am on a healthy track physically and I bought myself some great Christmas gifts this year! This is the first time I can remember in my adult life that I have been putting myself first. Perhaps I’m in a long term exit strategy that I haven’t fully developed yet.

My WH is still diligently working in IC. I have decided to get a tattoo of a rising sun for the new year. Next chapter…

S2D

You sound clear headed. And are doing hard things with bravery. Keep going.

For me, the gaslighting was the most damaging the 2nd time around. He was drinking all the time and going to bars without telling me. I would question him about it and he would deny everything and spin it all on me. It was such a mindfuck. I knew what I knew, but yet could not prove it. So I investigated and stumbled upon so much worse. And with that proof, I was done.

I think you are also being gaslit (with the implication you gave him permission). How anyone can do this more than once is a huge statement about their character.

The hard part is as kind, good souls it is nearly impossible to believe that our beloved spouse could ever do this again after creating ground zero from the first time around. Like it’s so hard to wrap your mind around that fact. But once that sunk in- I was so done.

Goodbye to a 27 year history of a man who was not who he portrayed himself to be. I believed in his goodness so much and forgave him the first time.

For what it’s worth I’m newly single and excited about my new life. We went thru mediation and it all turned out okay. I’m lonely at times and say f you in my head often, but I’ve moved on. I know this is the right thing for me. My only regret is wasting 3-4 years of my life on this man who is not a good person. It took me awhile to understand that because it shattered the illusion of our world and marriage. I was so gaslighted that everything was my fault and it really f’ed with me.

I am a strong ass career woman, excellent mom, and loyal friend. I stand up for myself and am a very social person. I’m a huge empath and that was my blindness in the marriage. I always give the benefit of the doubt and looking back (which I don’t do often), I see how that can hurt me. When people show you who they are, believe them. It’s that simple.

He has shown you who he is fundamentally at the core- his character, his beliefs. It’s hard to reconcile that this person who your life revolved around and loved your kids is like this. But he is.

He is not the man you believed him to be and it is not your fault.

Wishing you we

Hope you're doing ok!

How you doing?