SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

She told me anyway.

This IS huge!

It's tremendous progress. She remembered..she lied..but quickly corrected that lie. She volunteered information.

Finally.

She has accomplished what many waywards never get close to. She understands your need for the truth..and for details about the affair..AND is brave enough to volunteer that information.

I'm really quite happy for you. And..standing ovation, Mrs. IH!

I am happy for you! I hope the forward momentum continues!

So happy to see you posting in the R Forum!

I can tell you personally that the fear that each time something new is revealed that it can be the last straw is very real. I think this is a huge step for both of you. She needs to learn that vulnerability will eventually help her to become healthy and happier. With each success, she can hopefully begin to trust the process and make it a rule rather than an exception.

I applaud you for being able to see these little victories through your own pain.

WBFA, I don’t know why you would think she trusted her AP. An affair is nothing like reality. It’s all smoke and mirrors. It’s why many relationships formed from affairs have a very low success rate.

A Hulk sighting in the R forum? That’s pretty cool. I can’t say enough good things about the folks in this section who have helped me.

Big moments are critical — no one wants to be the villain, so any time (for me) that my wife OWNED her choices, it helped us build back.

And the fear of the pain of infidelity being too much for us — I think for a lot of WS, that fear never goes away. Our MC back in the day explained how hard it is to add one more fact of the A into the discussion, because WS are CERTAIN the very next bit of truth will be the straw that breaks our backs.

So yeah, that sounds like some big moments.

Ultimately, I know my wife voices concerns about how far along I am in my healing, and we’re doing well seven and a half years later, but there can still be some place we visit, or some memory bubbles up — some reminders that haunt us now and again. Then we focus back on the love and care that got us this far.

I hope the big moments give you a chance to finally heal a bit InkHulk.

Sure, she eventually hit the fuck-it button, but in doing so could only get her needs met by violating every moral tenet of her life. Not a sustainable and worthwhile life. She is stepping into the light, where real and solid joy exists but you have to be brave and honest to claim it.

Are you sure that this explains here previous selfishness that was even PRE-affair? Because I do not--at least going by your threads on here.

Keep in mind that it serves her, AND your short-term needs (e.g., your need to justify your decision to R) to believe her narrative of this part of her "why".

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 5:58 PM, Thursday, November 30th]

threadjack

@WOES

WBFA, I don’t know why you would think she trusted her AP. An affair is nothing like reality. It’s all smoke and mirrors. It’s why many relationships formed from affairs have a very low success rate.

Not WBFA, but wanted to respond to this. Every WS knows, on some level, that choosing to have an affair could lead to the destruction of their marriage and family, and completely upend their life. In order to take the plunge, a WS has to trust their AP on some level, even if that trust is misplaced.

/threadjack

I agree with Blue. Trusting the OM is part of the affair fantasy. Of course she trusted him. For 3 years she trusted that he wouldn't tell IH about the affair. She trusted he wouldn't blow up her life. Clearly neither had any intention of leaving their BS. They didn't want that. They wanted the affair, and their marriage. She placed a huge amount of trust in the OM. As do most WS'S during the affair.

I mean..they may be lying to their BS..the person they swore to be faithful to..but they would never betray them! They're special.

Add in, she trusted OM enough to give him her child's phone number,so he could talk privately with her child. That alone says how much trust she had in him.

[This message edited by HellFire at 7:35 PM, Thursday, November 30th]

@WOES

WBFA, I don’t know why you would think she trusted her AP. An affair is nothing like reality. It’s all smoke and mirrors. It’s why many relationships formed from affairs have a very low success rate.

This, respectfully as possible, is nonsense. I mean, I am sorry but this is such a destructive lie.

The bromide that "affairs are not real relationships" is just Happy Talk that too many WS use to minimize their actions in some way. It's Wayward Thinking. It is also the type of thinking that too many BS use to try to justify R in their minds.

Of course affairs are real relationships. The same brain chemicals that WS has in response to AP are the ones she had whenever she fell in love in any other period of her life, except it is even more intense in an affair. The WS is also making a decision--indeed, many many decisions compounded over time--to trust her life with OM, including taking her time and energy away from BH and family.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 8:02 PM, Thursday, November 30th]

An affair isn't a "real" relationship in that it's conducted in secret without any of the stressors of real life. The secrecy and total privacy is a huge part of the titillation and draw. APs get to luxuriate in the fantasy of forbidden wuv while ignoring the reality of spouses and everyday pressures - at least while they're together. So, yeah, it's a relationship in the technical sense, but it usually can't survive reality.

A certain level of trust is required to keep the enormous secret, so it makes sense that a WS would extend trust to an AP in other areas too. It's all just a big house of cards, though, as most find out.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 8:03 PM, Thursday, November 30th]

I’m not sure whatever level of trust existed between a WS and an AP is a key to whether or not R is possible.

If a WS does trust AP at any level, that trust breaks 99 percent of the time when the A is revealed anyway.

My wife’s AP turned on her before the A was even over and had started to brag about it at the company where they both worked. And once my wife realized AP threw her under the bus, she was pretty quick to do the same. Whatever the relationship was, whatever the trust was, it was gone by the time the A ended.

Even if they trusted each other implicitly during the A, or it was a part of the fantasy, the important aspect for MY R was what my wife did to EARN my trust back.

@SacredSoul I'd say it is more the opposite. APs often **seek solace from** the stressors of real life with each other. But isn't this how many lasting relationships between two single people start as well. As in, two coworkers with an impossible boss, bond over this with each other. When this tough working situation changes, the relationship may change as well. Or it may not change--these two coworkers may discover they click on many other levels. They may have never discovered that spark between each other had they met under different circumstances however.

Same thing could be said about vacation flings. Just because two people met learning how to surf under the warm sun in Costa Rica, doesn't mean they won't stay together when they are back in the hustle and bustle and the blustery weather and the day-to-day drudgery of life in the Big City.

For better or worse, people do end up with their APs too.

Anyways, to say that affairs are not real relationships is just such a destructive lie to the BS, as it minimizes the betrayal wrought upon them.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 8:40 PM, Thursday, November 30th]

We're both correct. How many affairs do you know of that involve bill-paying, childcare, laundry, rotating the tires, cleaning up barf, dealing with in-laws (or literally ANY other relationships)? There are none of those stressors in an affair - and perhaps the APs are seeking refuge from those stressors in their real lives, too. Regardless, they aren't part of an affair, ergo, it's not a full-fledged relationship. It's fantasy unencumbered by boring routine. They don't have to deal with anything but managing their secret. That's it.

And no, it's not the same as two coworkers bonding over a crappy boss or people who meet on vacation -- because it involves secrecy and lies to maintain. Sure, APs could end up together. It happens all the time. But the likelihood of a successful relationship is low after dealing with the fallout of divorce, whatever dysfunction led them to cheat in the first place, and boring everyday routine.

IMO, it helps a BS to realize the attraction of the AP is also frequently tied up with the escapism of the A. It's not about something being inherently wrong in the BS or super special about the AP - it's the circumstances of the A itself.

I'm really quite happy for you. And..standing ovation, Mrs. IH!

I’m touched that you are happy that I am happy. Not even being a smart ass, that is honestly the situation here. Joy begets joy, my joy here is made better in it being shared.

HF is a special case, hard ass as she can be, but it is also true for all of you. Thanks for making this moment even better for me.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 9:20 PM, Thursday, November 30th]

A Hulk sighting in the R forum? That’s pretty cool.

You are one to talk It’s genuinely really good to hear from you.

Maybe when people say "real" they mean authentic, healthy, non-toxic.

Most affairs are castles built in sand. The stats show it.

I think its important here to remember there are different kinds of relationships.

Some relationships involve the puking,bills,raising kids, extended family issues. But..some don't. For example..when you are dating someone, and not living with them, that kind of relationship doesn't involve most,if not all, of those things. That doesn't mean there isn't a relationship.

A LTA is a relationship. It's just a different kind of relationship than the marital relationship.

I'm one that doesn't like saying the affair is a fantasy. For ME, a fantasy isn't real. It's something imagined. As a BS, his affair was not definitely very real.

A lot of ws try to say " it wasn't real..it was just a fantasy." There are a few BSs in jfo dealing with that bullshit right now. IMO, it's a way for their ws to try to avoid accountability. It wasn't real, so let not let it affect our reality,our lives.

No. Miss me with that shit.

We're both correct. How many affairs do you know of that involve bill-paying, childcare, laundry, rotating the tires, cleaning up barf, dealing with in-laws (or literally ANY other relationships)? There are none of those stressors in an affair - and perhaps the APs are seeking refuge from those stressors in their real lives, too. Regardless, they aren't part of an affair, ergo, it's not a full-fledged relationship. It's fantasy unencumbered by boring routine. They don't have to deal with anything but managing their secret. That's it.

Well, but we can't both be correct on this.

Actually, most DATING relationships hardly involve those things either though. That doesn't mean that APs don't talk to each other about these things--in fact, many APs involve each other with the problems of their lives a lot more quickly than otherwise single people do with each other in new relationships. And in fact, in many instances the AP has even more problems than the BH ever had, and is quite clear about it with WW.

And just the same: In a strong committed/married relationship, two people have secrets and inside jokes and are each other's cocoon as they are taking on the world together. In an affair, the WS is transferring that very same role onto their AP, while relegating their spouse to room-mate/babysitter status. It--the affair that is--as wrong as it is, is a very real relationship indeed. That is what makes an affair so hurtful.

What HellFire said already.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 10:21 PM, Thursday, November 30th]

Obviously, the A was real. They bumped uglies. They spent time together. They said ILYs. They felt real feelings. They had a relationship. But...

In this context - on SI where the vast majority of members are either married or living together - the A is an escape in comparison to the life that the WS has with the BS. Most of us are dealing with the mundane everyday tasks in our relationships that APs don't have to bother with when in each other's company. Sure, we have some members who were cheated on while dating and not cohabitating, but they're definitely in the SI minority. And when BSs compare themselves to the AP, with whom the WS likely never had to do anything mundane, ever, the comparison of "real life" vs fantasy is valid, IMO.

How many times have we seen WSs leave for the AP, only to become disenchanted once "reality" kicks in and want to come home? It happens all the time. THIS is what I'm talking about when I say "real." I'm not talking about whether it really happened or not. Of course, it happened or we all wouldn't even be here. lol

I think we're all getting hung up on the semantics. "Real" isn't the best word. Maybe full-fledged? Matured? Well-established?

Well, but we can't both be correct on this.

Yes, we can. I said that they weren't any inherent stressors in the A, and you said that perhaps they were seeking solace from the stressors of their marriage by having the A. We're both correct.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 10:41 PM, Thursday, November 30th]

How come it's always InkHulk's posts that blow up?

WBFA, I disagree completely. I don’t think many affairs (maybe some) are real relationships . Most are made of bullshit and lies cheaters feed each other to keep the dopamine hit coming. My husband didn’t share secrets with his long term affair partner short the secret that he saw her at all. And as he says, it technically was a "relationship" in the since that anyone you see more than once off meeting becomes a relationship. Hell, I have one with my nail tech. The relationship he had with the other woman was certainly inappropriate and wrong, but according to him (she likely felt differently) she was never an important person in his life. When asked what he would have told a buddy if they learned of her he swears his answer would have been "some woman I stupidly started fucking around with and now I need to find a way to safely get rid of). This seems to be true evidenced by the way he immediately and callously kicked her to the curb on D day. In his words her power was gone since it was already out and as screwed up as he’d made his life he was happy that part was over. I don’t think that’s a "relationship" of any sort of importance and certainly not one with deep seated secrets and intimate feelings. He dropped her so quickly it was actually scary to me. I get sad when my favorite neighbor moves, how was he not missing her and if he lacks feelings what is keeping him from walking away from me so easily? His response from day one was “there was never any reality to her nor did I want there to be. Feelings never developed for that reason. You were the reality”. That’s some serious ability to compartmentalize, but he’s never wavered from this nor was there ever any broken contact. According to him there wasn’t even the desire to contact. 🤷‍♀️

[This message edited by OnTheOtherSideOfHell at 10:49 PM, Thursday, November 30th]