SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi everyone I came here searching for answers of course. My husband of 5 years had an affair pretty much the entire summer, D-day was October 6th so the wounds are pretty fresh and I struggle emotionally every day. My husband and I just started marriage counseling (his idea) because he had an idea of what enticed him to have the affair. Like most people I’ve read about, he was seeking external validation, he was struggling with finances, we have four kids (one with special needs) and I think we just fell out a bit emotionally. (Not an excuse at all). I’m really trying to reconcile and be understanding because he has done nothing but be there and admit fault and answer questions that I have. I am just struggling because he seemed so defensive at first and when asked questions about the affair he would say "she knew me better" or " we had a better connection" "she had a great body" (now he claims that was never true) once he found out I knew who she was and as time went on he said none of it was was true and he was "blinded". He also said he was never going to leave his family but it was an "ego boost" and he liked how it made him feel "invincible" When I bring up anything he said shortly after d-day he gets very sad and asks me not to repeat them because he didn’t mean them. The words he said stick with me and I really don’t know how to let that go. I don’t know how someone can go from believing that I wasn’t a good match for him to begging and crying for me to not leave.
Has anyone ever dealt with this? How are you handling it and do you have any advice?

Also we have MC on Monday and I am struggling with what questions I NEED to know about the affair. I know the when’s , some of the where’s and that it was physical. I have this urge to know everything because I feel like they shouldn’t be allowed to have any sort of "secrets" together and it should all be laid on the table. I know this isn’t the best way of thinking but I want to ask all the questions now instead of doing it months down the road. What questions would you not recommend I ask or what questions do you recommend for reconciliation?

Thank you!

I'm so sorry you are here.

My advice if you need details is to get them all now, while they are fresh, no excuses. He definitely remembers at this point, so don't accept excuses. Failure to cooperate with yiu is pure disrespect.

If you don't get it all now, he won't remember when it eats away at you a few years down the road and you decide you need it all.

Thank you. I think I’m going to make a list of things I NEED to know and ask them at MC. I just don’t want to further traumatize myself because this has been the worst pain I’ve felt.

Very sorry you find yourself here. When confronted about making the most hurtful betrayal of the person you vowed to be faithful to, the natural reaction is to reach out and desperately seek any excuse for the betrayal. Your WH’s words after confrontation are pretty common around here, but that does not make them less painful. Nothing you did or didn’t do, nothing in your M, caused him to cheat. He cheated because he is broken. His words of faithfulness do not match his actions. He lacked the integrity and honor to maintain his vows to you when the going got tough. He needs to be in IC to work on his brokenness, and he needs to do the work to try and rebuild your trust in the future. Watch his actions, not his words. It takes humility to face the worst in our behavior.

Part of this work is being honest and transparent. He must answer all of your questions, even if you need repeated reassurance without defensiveness. You have suffered a real trauma and your brain requires reassurance as you process the betrayal, over and over again. He needs to demonstrate empathy for all of the pain he caused you, rather than wallow in his own shame. This does take time. Not every WS gets it.

Be cautious in MC that it does not degenerate into blaming your M for your WS cheating. MC is to help resolve marital issues. Your M didn’t fail. You WH failed you.

Good luck.

I’m sorry you have been impacted by infidelity. It is painful and devastating and a slow healing process.

Regarding things the cheater says, it is just hard to know how to take their comments.

Your cheater was being honest about some things - the ego boost, the excitement, the thrill and newness of the OW etc. in his mind he’s trying to rationalize WHY he had more than one interaction. But……on the other hand he’s not realizing the damage he is causing in your marriage. And to you as well.

My H told me during his affair that I never loved him and married him for other reasons. That is the most ridiculous thing ever! He knew it was a lie but yet he said it and meant it as a way to justify the affair and his decision to D me.

He admitted after the affair ended it wasn’t true. But I will never forget he said it.

Even though we are happily reconciled he can never take back those words. Yes I have forgiven him but it also showed me how far people are willing to go to get what they want. With no regard for their spouse or kids or extended families — cheaters will say and do whatever they want.

It will take time to accept what he said and did. It’s a process. Hopefully there will be heartfelt apologies from the cheater and maybe forgiveness from the betrayed.

But just know the OW was fake (as was your cheating spouse). They present their fake and phony self to the cheater and I do believe the affair is an escape from reality into a fantasy.

I hope this helps get some clarity on R and getting past the lies they told and the stupid answers they provide to the betrayed.

I really appreciate all of your replies.
He has 100% admitted exactly what you all have said. It was purely a fantasy and he kept his two lives completely separate. They did nothing but have dinners (nothing a couple would do) besides that and clearly getting physical. I asked him if she ever told him things he didn’t want to hear and he said no that all she did was give him compliments and he stopped talking to her before I found out because she told him she loved him and he told her he loved me. It’s all just so hard to process. He has answered all of my questions that I’ve asked and that I continue to ask over and over. He cries when I ask and can’t look at me because he feels "stupid" for not seeing it for what it was then and he said answering me only hurts him and I more but he will do whatever helps. I told him he has to get past the feeling "stupid" part that I was not trying to judge him but more help him and myself understand what caused it and what we need to do. I feel stupid for asking the same things all the time but like you all said it’s common. I asked him last night for a timeline of events that he will give me before marriage counseling and I’m hoping that helps me a bit not feel so shut out. I feel extremely betrayed and the fact he would jeopardize us for a fantasy hurts even more , he had no intention of leaving but wanted this "high". Sigh. So much to process. As far as the things he first said coming out of the affair he told me last night that he said those things because he was hurting and he needed to project the pain elsewhere. So I guess an answer is better than no answer.

Very many people here on this site have a relatively negative stance towards MC.
I think the reason might be a misunderstanding of the purpose of MC – both from the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse, and maybe even from the MC misunderstanding the purpose or goal.

I think MC can be beneficial – but only in the correct framework.

There are few definite factors in infidelity, but there is one we here on this site tend to believe is true:
The betrayed spouse is NEVER responsible for the WS decision to cheat.

Get it? Like on the sense of validation… You could be 100% disrespectful of your partner, make fun of him, talk badly, moan about his earing-potential, performance in bed… whatever… You could be doing your total best to belittle him and shatter his self-image and self-worth…
That would allow him a lot of options…
He could demand change. If some of the issues were warranted he could even make changes to himself. He could seek affirmation through accepted means… He could EVEN decide that the blame was 100% on you, and that you were not the partner he wants. He CAN demand change, including the change of divorce.
What he CAN’T do is seek validation by breaking his vows…

To use a comparison: If you told him constantly that he was physically weak he has some options. He can ignore your comments as wrong simply by opening the jam-jars. He can confirm that for a man his age and build then benching 150 is good, 200 is great. If he can do neither he can join a gym and build up strength. What he CAN’T do us prove his superior strength by punching the daylight out of you… That would be abuse – just like having an affair because of any marital or personal issue is abuse.

So… If you are going to the MC to deal with the infidelity… That’s like taking the right leg to physiotherapy because the left one is broken. You would rather start with setting and healing the left before asking the right to join in. This is why IC is generally considered more important initially than MC.

So what should the goal with MC be?
Definitely not to fix the infidelity. It should be to improve communications, create a safe environment for the resolution of issues, enable you to ask your questions and all that. A good MC is a bit like a personal trainer that teaches you the correct way to do push-ups, but once you learn you ALWAYS do them that way. A good MC teaches him to let you know of his issues and helps you find ways for HIM to fix it. Not you – not you per se, unless it’s something directly about you or what you do that causes the friction. But an MC would make him (or you) have tools to broach that subject without breaking vows.

Yes, I completely agree with you. Our marriage counselor is a Christian based counselor because that is what our beliefs are. In no way shape or form have I ever been blamed for the infidelity by my husband or by the counselor. I would not stand for that. The counselor has us talk about our communication style and help us realize what led up to the affair. Obviously not what I did, but what drove us apart and what drove him to think that he was allowed to do this. We get homework on how to communicate better and our communication styles things like that and actually, my husband had his individual counseling with him last week and I’m waiting to see what his thoughts are in individual counseling. My husband is all for the individual counseling, and I think that I’m gonna take that step and have him go at least once a month right now to keep him on the right path, and to really discover things about himself, he has some childhood trauma that has came out. We’ve discovered porn was also an issue that probably helped feed this urge and he wants to continue to stay on the path of not "needing" it.

MC treats the M, and your M didn't fail. Your H did. Your M doesn't need to change. Your H does.

He knows he cheated to get external validation. That's almost definitely true, and it's almost definitely a good start. I just don't see how communicating better in your M will help him fill that metaphorical hole inside him. MC can't fulfill the need for external validation - that's his own work.

I've loved my W since 1965. She never loved herself, so she simply did not take in my love. She refused to recognize she was loved. She rarely let herself feel loved. I was proud of her from 1965 into her A in 2010. My compliments never filled up the hole inside her, either. If you read enough here, you'll see that's common - or at least not uncommon - for WSes.

Your H will not be a good candidate for R unless he learns to love and validate himself. The hole is too big for anything you say or do to fill it. The hole is inside him, and he's the only one who can fill it.

To heal - to change from cheater to good partner - your H has to face himself, his pain, and his fears about himself, and he has to face them down.

The counselor has us talk about our communication style and help us realize what led up to the affair.

There's nothing you could have said or done to prevent your H's A.

It's great that he's interested in doing IC. I urge you to require a couple of things from his therapy. First, one of his goal needs to be something like 'to change from cheater to good partner.' A second goal should be something like, 'to learn to love and validate myself'; religious doctrine may help.

Third, my strong reco - to all BSes, though I don't write it out much - is that you require him to sign a release that allows his IC to talk with you about your H's goals and progress. (My W's IC suggested that I require her (the IC) to call me proactively if my W revealed another A or if she rescinded the release.) IC is ethically and legally - usually - confidential, and an IC can't communicate about anything that goes on in IC, except for a few exceptions relating to violence, to someone other than the client without a signed release.

*****

My reco is to forget about forgiveness having any connection with R. Your H has hurt you very deeply; forgiveness needs to be earned, IMO. Besides, you can R without forgiving. You can forgive and D. We BSes deal with very basic and raw emotions, and there's no one size fits all.

Those words you can't take back? You decide how you are going to interpret them. There are numerous healthy ways to do that. You get to, and must, decide for yourself which way you'll go. If you're not sure how you want to take them now, rest easy - you'll almost definitely figure it out, but you're not ready yet - and that's not unusual or abnormal.

I completely agree that IC is the way to go for him and he has agreed and we will get that set up. Should we still do MC monthly too? Just to touch base on our feelings.

From what you describe my answer is, 'I'm not sure.' If you think it's the right thing to do, my reco is to do it. If you don't think MC helps, stop.

I know it can be scary to know you have to blaze your own trail. Have faith in yourself to do it. The best guide is your intuition.

I don’t know if this is going to make any sense, but I didn’t go into marriage counseling with a bunch of questions about ‘why did you want them’ and ‘what did you do’ or ‘where did you do it’. Those felt like questions I was asking from a place of insecurity. I was more interested in ‘how did you so successfully marginalize me?’ and ‘why did you feel entitled to do so?’ which I felt were coming from a more ‘equal’ place and were therefore more important to me.

I find that many WS’s continue their entitled behavior right into MC, and we often enable it. We ask questions that have factual answers and when they can stop lying long enough to come clean, we have what we think we need to know and they get to have a convenient epiphany like "I cheated because I was stressed and I should have come to you instead of going outside my marriage" or maybe even a deeper "I was dealing with a past trauma very poorly". Then they can proclaim "All better!! I know why I did it! Glad we figured it out!" Unfortunately that usually gets followed up with the inevitable "it really wasn’t my fault, I’m not doing it now, can we move on already?!" This usually happens really quickly. How convenient. Years of dysfunctional behavior understood and overcome in mere days.

Don’t we really want to know "what is missing in you that you didn’t give a shit?" and "what work will you do to fix that?" and "how do you plan to convince me that you have really changed?"

[This message edited by suddenlyisee at 4:23 PM, Sunday, January 14th]

suddenlyisee, I completely agree and understand. He has already told me those answers "I wasn’t happy with myself" "I should have came to you instead of filling my hole with someone else". While that is all great that he knows it , it doesn’t help me understand HOW he could do this to me and the kids and not give a shit. He told me yesterday "I told myself that it would all work out and we would be fine". Oh the lies he told himself to continue the affair , I just can’t process how someone that meant so little to him was worth it then. I think I’m starting to see that it didn’t matter who the AP was , it was more about his ego and the bullcrap she was feeding him. I recently asked him questions like : "What's her favorite movie?" "Favorite song?" "Favorite food" he couldn’t answer any of them because he didn’t give a crap. He remembers the compliments she told him but can’t remember what he told her (fully ,he knows some). Because none of it was true. It all seems like such a sick and cruel game where no one won.
He doesn’t seem to think "i know what and why i did and so it’s time to move on". He is all about counseling still and knows that he needs it to fully get to a place where he feels whole.

My goal is to see what his plans are on staying on the correct path, how he plans on building his boundaries, and to get him to IC to work on his self esteem / void issues.
I know that questions about sex, the OW, aren’t important and counterproductive but some days I fall in the pit of asking them bc of my now insecurities.
I hope I can get past them
Sooner than later and focus on the important things but like most everyone here , my pride took a nose dive to hell.

I do wish he would bring up the affair and his thoughts on it more often. He keeps saying "I want to focus on you and us not her or that" like nice but you’re trying to run before you walk…..

I just can’t process how someone that meant so little to him was worth it then.

I don't think that's your failure. I think it's normal for BSes, and recognizing that is your success.

My goal is to see what his plans are on staying on the correct path, how he plans on building his boundaries, and to get him to IC to work on his self esteem / void issues.

I think that's the right focus - but notice that it's all stuff that he is responsible for. Your task is to respond to what he does. You can't make him do IC; you can only ask, and I strongly recommend you do. You can't make him choose 'change from cheater to good partner' as one of his IC goals; you can only ask, and I strongly recommend you do.

I know that questions about sex, the OW, aren’t important and counterproductive but some days I fall in the pit of asking them bc of my now insecurities.

I disagree on this. IMO, it's important for you to ask any question you want to ask. I especially think your best bet is ask ask any question that scares you. Nit to do that smacks of giving in to fear, and that's a barrier to R. If you fear there's a deal killer in your WS's A, the sooner you know, the better, IMO.

I hope I can get past them

Gently, you can and you will, and you'll be happy about it. You may not be able to R, but you can get through this, survive, and thrive.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:29 PM, Sunday, January 14th]