SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello everyone.
Im wondering if any other waywards have had issues with percieving that their bs is yelling when it turns out they are not?

I had an ea the ap WAS a friend for many years even before meeting bw. The thing that made it an ea was that i deleted all messages. I know it was wrong. I clearly see now that ap just wanted to keep me around but never had any romantic interest.
Until i read "not just friends" i didnt realize it was an ea, i honestly thought it was just talking with a friend oh how wrong i was. I am in ic just for clarity.

Any advice to help control my perceptions would be very appreciated. Thank you.

I didn't mean to put the stop sign up if a mod could take it down please

I'm wondering if any other waywards have had issues with perceiving that their BS is yelling when it turns out they are not?

Absolutely.

Early on, every time my BS brought up the affair or anything related to it, it felt to me like she was punishing me, or trying to hurt me. It took a lot of time and therapy for me to finally open up to the fact that the things she was saying were factual, and that at that point it time, she wasn't saying it to hurt me, she just needed to talk about it, and you can't talk about it without saying it.

Imagine your car is hit by another driver. And when you get out and start to review and discuss the damage, they get defensive and tell you to stop throwing it in their face and bringing it up. In truth, you might not even be angry, but you still need to address the damage done so that you can take steps (insurance, repair shop) to get it resolved. The only way to discuss the smashed in car is to discuss the smashed in car. It's not anger, it's just what happened, that's all.

Letting go of the shame and self-anger is really key here. Once you can let that go, it will allow you let your defenses down, and when you aren't defensive, then real, true, honest communication can occur.

Just as an FYI, if you have any little secrets still smoldering, (Trickle Truths), get rid of them. You can't let go of shame and blame and keep secrets at the same time. It is a block to any success, for both of you.

Otherwise, do your best to put your own feelings aside. Imagine if this were your friend, rather than your spouse. How would you hear their words? What advice would you give them? Treat your spouse the same way. When it is their turn/time to hurt, then it is your time to put your own hurt away and focus on their reality and needs exclusively. You may be surprised at how much progress can be made this way. It's okay to struggle with this, most WS's do, at least at first. It is something to practice continuous improvement on.

Good luck to you both.

m wondering if any other waywards have had issues with percieving that their bs is yelling when it turns out they are not?

Yes. Or thinking he was mad when he wasn’t. And this happened throughout my marriage until that last few years.

What changed?

Our perceptions are how we view our environment. And for EVERYONE, not just a ws, it’s filtered through our past experiences.

Most people start this view in childhood. I walked on eggshells for the first 18 years of my life. I would tune into the moods of the absusers in my family like a radar.

And then I just continued learning to placate them by trying to be perfect.

I get married and the scanning for moods was still very much a thing. If I am honest, to a certain degree even after extensive work the scanning still happens, just less so and I am able to kind of turn it off when I catch it.

So I hate conflict, anger, criticism. My husband is none of these things. But if he uses certain tones when he speaks I interpret it as yelling. Truth is he probably has yelled at me very few times and that was after my affair.

I am going to say that you have a need to be seen as "good" and the minute you realize that’s not the message it feels amplified to you.

Perfectionism is about shame and conflict avoidance is a lack of confidence.

The shame makes you feel you are not good enough. The lack of confidence make you fear not being able to handle the situation.

Finding ways to be self-compassionate, telling yourself a new narrative in your self talk, feeling you are reaching your potential by doing your best, feeling your boundaries by developing your integrity, and making a habit of being accountable for every aspect of your lofe will help you to be empowered, and so on- this is how you change your perception. Change your lens by investing in being mindful of who you are and who u out want to be.

Once you create a long enough recent history with some basic things (honesty, integrity, doing your best, shooting for the goal of being more loving towards yourself and others) it will deepen and grow until you can perceive people from a more balanced mindset.

You will be amazed how being mindful and intentional about things will fix more than just your perception of whether someone is yelling at you.

The Stop Sign has been removed. Betrayed Spouses are now able to post.

BS here and stop sign removed, so thought it was worth posting as it resonated.

My WW got into absolute screaming matches with me when I was just trying to speak to her and understand what on earth was going on. In her mind, it was very clear that she thought I was attacking her but I really wasn't. Of course with her raising her voice it resulted in me raising mine and then it did turn into an argument, which I always hated as it wasn't the intention.

We are a year on (and a lot of MC) and we are only just at the point where we can talk about it civilly.

I listened to a podcast recently where a counsellor said that WS's intuitively think that they shouldn't bring it up. However, the BS wants to talk about it, they want to hear the truth (in full). If you bring it up, it becomes less of a taboo subject which can help to move on. Just check that your BS is in a headspace to talk about it before starting the conversation, and if they become too triggered, respect their wishes to stop the conversation for now.

Good luck and well done for posting, I have a lot of respect for the WSs that are posting and trying to sort things out

I agree about the part where the ws needs to bring it up.

The bs likely feels like they are carrying the burden on their own. And the more they are bringing it up often the more alone they will feel in your reconciliation. It becomes them trying to hold it in more, and that’s really the last thing you want. They need to let it out, their brain needs to work the puzzle. The inability to do that with you makes healing the relationship and parts of themselves so much harder, if not impossible in some cases.

Be respectful like Ozzy is saying, but know she is never not thinking about it. Check in, show you care, when you are working through something, talk to her about it. Collaborate, communicate, the only way through this is for you to find ways to show her that you are accountable and trying to be in the same team.

BS. I am dealing with this exact issue this morning. There are some details that I would like to talk about but the timing needs to be good. So I find myself taking notes and waiting for the right moment. WH would rather poke his eye out with a sharp stick than bring up the subject. There is no anger or yelling in our talks. It's just me needing to process my thoughts. I wish he would start the conversation. Whether it was a surfaced memory or a random thought. I sometimes worry that he'll grow tired at my endless questioning. He never hesitates and for that I'm glad.

So yes WS's don't be afraid to ask us how we are. Let us know that you are also thinking about it. Offer us your insight without us having to ask for it. Sometimes it's not even a word, but a hug or a hand that tells us that you are present with us.

BS here. And after DDays - every time I said something WH didn't like he perceived it as "yelling". Every time I said something that he didn't like he wanted to end the conversation "because I'd talked about it too much and he needed a break". I could go on.

I will say this - when discussing with your BS - who is traumatized beyond belief - because it was an affair [whatever the prefix may be] and it traumatized.

Stay with your IC. IMHO - figure out why you didn't think it was an affair [or at the very least - inappropriate]. Find out why you explained it away as "just a friend". Figure out why you'd keep someone secret. Why you'd delete messages. Why you'd keep the "friendship" going. Romantic interest or not - you [on some level] knew it was wrong and did it anyway. IC is a good place to wrap your head around that.

Pro tip - when discussing and even explaining - don't give any bulls*** excuses - you will end up sounding like a teenager breaking curfew. Figure out your why's before speaking. Please - no matter how tempting it is - don't get defensive. Please don't DARVO this.

You may have to answer the same questions over and over and over again. Please do so calmly. The person who trusted you the most is trying to wrap their head around the trauma that has been inflicted. It part of the process. Because one some level - us BS really can't believe we found ourselves here. We really can't believe this happened to us. And we need to wrap our heads around it. We aren't yelling. We are hurting. And we are asking the hard questions. Ones that have answers you probably haven't faced yourself.

And we can't move forward with our healing without the Truth, the Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth.

ETA - edited to fix grammatical errors

[This message edited by Chaos at 12:10 AM, Tuesday, March 19th]

Thank you for the replies i really appriciate the input.

I thought it best to clarify so here goes. I percieved my bs as yelling at me and i got frustrated (by the tone in my voice) both bw and dd said i sounded angry. I did not get angry (again from my perspective) until bw said you are getting angry. Then i stormed out intending to calm down and come back to the conversation. I came back to the conversation but clearly had not calmed down enough or properly.
I wish i understood why ANYONE telling me what im feeling true or not makes me angry at the drop of a hat, its been like that as long as i can remember.

If anyone bs or ws has been thru this either personally or with their wayward i would welcome any further input.

Another point id like to clarify is that i wasnt saying the only thing that made it an ea was deleting the messages. I know it was the secrecy of it im sorry it came across a minimizing. I really wish i hadnt deleted them in the first place though. I can see the pain my choices caused i know i cant take them back but i do want to help her heal more than anything. I love my bw more than life itself and in a lot of ways i hate myself for the pain i caused her. I see it said often "to save the marriage you have to be willing to lose it" obviously i dont want to lose it (i know that the old marriage is dead and a new one must be built)

Dday was in dec 2021 i have gone no contact with xap and anyone that knows her. I have told bw every detail i can remember( i have major memory issues i imagine from the multiple head injuries i have suffered during childhood.) Unless i write things down i forget them far to easily, remembering names and dates are the hardest for me.

Daddydom
I hear what you are saying. Id like to start by pointing out i have no secrets any more i did TT in the beginning which was one of the top 5 dumbest things ive ever done. Part of my TT was i said that ap and i had sexted twice the truth is there was never anything sexual between us. I attempted to articulate the truth by saying there was no affair (it was a poor choice of words i only meant there was nothing sexual). I think one of the biggest issues i have is self anger and I dont vent it properly. Im disabled so physical activity is very limited. I used to run or bike to deal with my anger issues.

Hikingout
Your reply hit a tender spot and i think on some level i do feel the need to be seen as good even though ive shown myself to be far less of a good guy than i ever thought possible. I know i made the worst choices i could have made. Rewriting my self narative is a major challenge. Is it normal to get frustrated at incorrect information. I know i shouldnt but i feel compelled to correct it when something like that comes up.

Any advice on how to not get frustrated or angry enough to bring it up at a better time(if there is such a thing)

Ozzy
I am trying to learn how to stop reacting to her pain with anger. I have had anger issues most of my life and i had it under control for years or so i thought.

Trumansworld

I have tried taking notes and waiting for a "good time" to bring things up but it ALWAYS plays out that my bw ends up asking about it or rightfully getting upset that i dont bring things up. Im sure its part of my conflict avoidance issues. Still its very very difficult to find a "good time" because if she is in a bad mood i feel terrible even possibly making it worse. Yet when shes in a good mood i dont want to ruin it because ive destroyed her already.

As some background on myself: i have a lot of foo issues and abuse i never really processed from my childhood. I also suffered multiple head injuries. I grew up with a less than stellar mother and my father wasnt in the picture really, i didnt even meet him til i was 9. At around 8 or so i had to start doing whatever work i could get my hands on to make ends meet. My mother never even worked til i was 13 and even then i still had to help with the bills. Suffice it to say not much of a child hood and serious abandonment issues are prevalent in me. As a result of my abandonment issues i have developed an aversion to confict.

My bw has stood by my thru so much and i hurt her and disrespected her in the worst way. I wish every day i could undo it or take it back. I know that isnt possible so im trying to focus on being safe for her. I dont like the guy ive become i am determined to become the best version of myself for me and those i love.

Thank you for reading and any input is welcome.

Our triggers are our responsibility to overcome, especially when we are placing our emotional needs over our bs’s on a subject of something we did or brought to the marriage.

I know Dr. Phil became kind of a sell out, but his early stuff really did teach us how to be more emotionally mature. So I will quote him:

Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy???

It pains you when your ba has guessed how you might feel.

Probably whatever that is isn’t positive. Doesn’t paint you in the best light. Questions your character. But now you have cheated and this is part of your character that it’s up to you to own and accept.

By accepting it you must give your bs the grace they deserve in that you caused her to not know who you are. I think taking accountability while striving for self compassion is the only way. There is a post here from yesterday about defensiveness from wants to repair. I wrote out what to do in defensiveness there. Read that post. Because it’s all defensive stuff you are talking about.

I feel like you saying "it’s been this way for as long as I remember" translates to some self defeating language. It basically said "this is just how I am and I can’t change it.

But you can change it. It will take effort and digging but if you learn to think differently about it, then your behavior and responses will naturally change. You are in your own way.

So let me ask you: do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? I am guessing happy. Then when she accuses you need to reframe. She is hurting because she doesn’t trust you. She is vulnerable and telling you what she is imagining to be true because she is scared and confused. If she didn’t love you more than you can earthly imagine she wouldn’t even be there fighting for you at all. So get on her team and fight for it with her. You need to see you want the same thing, and you are the one getting in your own way.

I have compassion for you, but your self talk is defeating you. If it’s always been this way then look at your FOO. Likely you experienced this in childhood and whatever you decided to do to cope with it hasn’t changed since you were a child. Let that sink in. You are relying on patterns you learned as a child to protect yourself. You do not need to protect yourself from the woman who loves you- and by doing that you are hurting her. Go for the same team. It’s you and her against these problems. It’s you and her against your tendencies. And you have to protect her before protecting yourself because she has not only earned it, she has always deserved it.

And guess what? You can deserve it too, work on the earning part.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:24 PM, Wednesday, April 3rd]

I grew up with a less than stellar mother and my father wasnt in the picture really, i didnt even meet him til i was 9. At around 8 or so i had to start doing whatever work i could get my hands on to make ends meet. My mother never even worked til i was 13 and even then i still had to help with the bills. Suffice it to say not much of a child hood and serious abandonment issues are prevalent in me. As a result of my abandonment issues i have developed an aversion to confict.

thats a difficult childhood to overcome. I cannot even imagine the struggles that you have had to cope with. Good on you for getting on this site and looking to understand and grow. I often avoid conflict and I take most feedback as criticism unless its validation. If I "feel" that anyone is yelling at me my reaction will be to shutdown and try and/or agree with them to pacify the anger. I observe that my son has inherited the same problem but he just responds loudly or off-topic and never stops talking so that people give up. Fortunately we are seeing improvement in both his responses and my responses.

A couple of years of running to the machine gun along with regular IC sessions has helped me stay more present in difficult conversations. some of the things that helped me were:
- my faith - knowing i was forgiven and my past (FOO, adultery, etc) doesnt define me. and when i embrace all the truth of my failure it loses its hold on my negative behaviours
- acknowledging my default responses dont help me
- understanding that i give to much power to others when i let them decide how i feel
- that i am incredibly critical of myself and i can jump into self-pity and the "unfairness" of feedback rather than empathise with my wifes pain
- that my first response is an automatic response from my amygdala and so "body keeps the score" stuff (just like BS's response to triggers)
- count to 10 before i respond

towards healing!