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Throughout this reconciliation process my husband has described the entire affair differently and the further away from it , the more he does the work, the more descriptive he’s become with describing his mind space at the time.

He once described it and I had a nightmare about it.

He described the affair once as just a series of finding a dark alley to pee in. He described it another time like a hotdog eating contest except you didn’t want to be in the contest—you have to dip it in water sometimes you eat the bun and the dog but you have to switch it up to be able to eat more. Afterwards you realize the only way to feel better is to shut but you end up shi*ting on everything.

He described her as a cheap bottle of whiskey you hide in the alley crawl space.

Much better than the first days after DDay when he said she made him feel like a man and she was always super sweet and nice and agreeable and easygoing.

We are only almost 6 months out and my H is same way. Whenever he sees pics of his AP he says he doesn’t want to see them and that it is gross and he doesn’t want to see her face. Like it was gross but you kept going back? Whenever I talk about it in great detail (usually when I’m spiraling) he gets physically sick.

In my opinion in the moment the AP is what they want because regardless of how they look they are filling a void, my H told me that the whole time he was having the A he never was going to leave us but in the moment thought she was hot.

I’m assuming it is because it is how he kept the fantasy going, if he had to admit she was ugly then it wouldn’t live up to his expectations. I truly believe some WS see what they want to see then later snap out of it pretty damn fast.

My H also said good things about her like your H did, it wasn’t until he saw what he did to our family, friends , and himself did he really see her for what she was and himself for who he was then. I mean he still is learning to be remorseful but I know he’s struggling with facing what he did, it’s a crappy process.

He used her for a cheap icky ego boost because he was broken and refused to work on himself.

Not sure is this helps because he is still healing but wanted to just say I can relate.

[This message edited by Groot1988 at 3:29 PM, Monday, March 18th]

that it is gross and he doesn’t want to see her face

My FWS felt the same, repulsed by the partner.

But, there were several stages.

When she saw him in the full light of their mutual behavior, she was just as guilty as she was doing exactly what he was, cheating on their spouses who were trying to hold their families together, and she wanted to stop but he didn't, it all started to come unglued.

Then, the fantasy fuckfest was like the witch when Dorothy threw the water on her!

Initially, in MC she tried to tell me that she didn't find him attractive. I called BS on that, and the MC seemed to agree. As the MC put it, the very definition of being attracted is meeting someone and wanting to fuck them.

She admitted, in the end, that she did find him attractive, at first, then started fucking him, then actually got to know him, then realized what he was like, and all of that attraction died out.

Not sure if this helps but as a WW, I can confirm. In the beginning, when my husband asked me if I found OP attractive, I also said that I did not. And at that time I really did not find him attractive. But after a very long time, I actually can confirm that originally I found him (the idea of what he represented to me at the time) attractive. In my mind, he could have been what I wanted him to be. AT the time of the A I often thought that the OP would not have behaved/reacted the way my husband did. But after years I realized that I did not know, I did not know the op when he was mad, or upset or happy, or sad or anything for that matter except for what I wanted to think of him.

It’s crazy. The attraction on my husband’s end was she was eager easy and their worlds wouldn’t collide oh and she was willing

He also describes himself as a piece of crap too so they were a match.

AT the time of the A I often thought that the OP would not have behaved/reacted the way my husband did. But after years I realized thatb, I did not know, I did not know the op when he was mad, or upset or happy, or sad or anything for that matter except for what I wanted to think of him

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Ragab, I really appreciate you sharing this. This mirrors what my WS says, and hearing you say it helps me believe it.

I am 9 years out from dDay. Her A's no longer dominate our interactions, nor does it dominate our marriage and relationship like it did in the first few years. I guess as it gets farther away in the rear view mirror, it takes up less of the landscape of our past. I hope that makes sense.

Here is what I have learned from her and being on this forum for many years. APs are mostly mirrors for the waywards. They don't typically live with the AP, so their interactions are not genuine. They put on their "best" face, and give attributes to the AP that the AP may not, or do not have IRL. It is all (or mostly) a fantasy. I refused to compare myself to her AP, at least with her, in the beginning. And I realized how healthy it was for me to not compare myself in any way to the fantasy she had about her AP. It was mostly made up, like a fairy tale. Why even try to compete with that? It's not real. That does not mean that I did not compete with the demon (AP) in my head, comparing myself to the fantasy she created. It was a hard place to be, even when I knew it was all bu!!shi+.

As the fog cleared, she was left with the shame of falling for it all, his lies, her own lies to herself and him. That is when she started to work on her why's. That is when healing happened. The reality of the affair was a ugly as it sounded. The AP in real life was not who he was in her head, she was not the ravishing sexy woman she pretended to be. Don't get me wrong, she is attractive, but the A, and the fantasy of it all allowed her to be someone she was not, as least for a while.

I hope all of that makes sense. After a while, the AP was not some ugly, disgusting dult of a man. He was an f'ed up, dude with very low self-esteem and an ordinary life. She was a woman who was f'ed up with kids, an ordinary life, overworked with low self-esteem. Together they could build a fantasy of being exciting and beautiful and sexy. It would all be hilarious if it was not so destructive.

With time, IC, MC and some great meds for depression, she started to realize her real life was pretty awesome, and being ordinary is not...ordinary.

He described the affair once as just a series of finding a dark alley to pee in. He described it another time like a hotdog eating contest except you didn’t want to be in the contest—you have to dip it in water sometimes you eat the bun and the dog but you have to switch it up to be able to eat more. Afterwards you realize the only way to feel better is to shut but you end up shi*ting on everything.

He described her as a cheap bottle of whiskey you hide in the alley crawl space.

I would pay good good money to have my wife self aware enough to be able to come up with these descriptions. I’ve had to rely on second hand content like this and infer that my wife would say something similar. I’m sorry for the pain you must feel in getting them, and there is an emptiness in not getting it from a clueless WS.

actually can confirm that originally I found him (the idea of what he represented to me at the time) attractive. In my mind, he could have been what I wanted him to be. AT the time of the A I often thought that the OP would not have behaved/reacted the way my husband did. But after years I realized that I did not know, I did not know the op when he was mad, or upset or happy, or sad or anything for that matter except for what I wanted to think of him.

Yes. This for me too. What he represented. Physically, I wasn’t attracted to him. It was easy to overlook in many ways because it wasn’t a scenario where the thing started because "I wanted to fuck him". I know that doesn’t matter because I still did it, but none of that was what the affair was about to me. It wasn’t what I was seeking.

Definitely had similar epiphanies to what is described in the quote. He was largely a figment of my imagination. Close to the time it was over he had sent me a link of him singing in church. It was so cringe I didn’t watch the whole thing.

Later I realize there was nothing wrong with what he sent it just was not aligned with my made up version of him. And then it kind of made me sick thinking about him standing up there like a good Christian knowing all that I knew.

I don’t ever think about him unless I am here or something triggers it. If I am here describing something it’s with a lot of detachment. I don’t feel like I ever really knew him at all.

I went through the disgust phase, I don’t feel disgust. I feel like I never should have gone there with him, and I am more disgusted with myself about that. He is too much like a figment of my imagination or stranger to have emotions towards him, good or bad. But I am also a long ways out from it.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:18 PM, Wednesday, March 20th]

He once described it and I had a nightmare about it.

He described the affair once as just a series of finding a dark alley to pee in. He described it another time like a hotdog eating contest except you didn’t want to be in the contest—you have to dip it in water sometimes you eat the bun and the dog but you have to switch it up to be able to eat more. Afterwards you realize the only way to feel better is to shut but you end up shi*ting on everything.

As much as I strongly believe in your spouses' personal journey and transformation, I would be careful in believing everything they say. I would be doubtful they say the things you want to hear.

I will never forget that for the duration of their affair they CHOSE it and each and every day they renewed that choice when obviously they had many others available. I can "imagine" what a nightmare it must have been to sleep with another person THEY CHOSE... yeah...

I personally appreciate if a spouse says they are very sorry for the PAIN THEY HAVE INFLICTED ON YOU, but confirm that their choice AT THE TIME was the choice they felt was the least worst they could make, if not the "best". At the end of the day if they inflicted pain on you, at least they should have only done it because AT THE TIME they believed that was the only thing they could choose, which does not mean that they would still choose it TODAY, because they are a changed person with different needs and awareness. But saying that today they regret what they did is not a bullsh** I am prepared to hear.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 1:44 PM, Wednesday, March 27th]

I refused to compare myself to her AP, at least with her, in the beginning. And I realized how healthy it was for me to not compare myself in any way to the fantasy she had about her AP. It was mostly made up, like a fairy tale. Why even try to compete with that? It's not real. That does not mean that I did not compete with the demon (AP) in my head, comparing myself to the fantasy she created. It was a hard place to be, even when I knew it was all bu!!shi+.

I don't know if I competed with the affair partner. But surely I was interested in understanding what my husband was finding in that POS FB, as skinny as an anchovy, masculine, full of tattoos, all standards my husband has always hated. SO there was something else he was finding attractive. She gave him lots of validation, she made him feel like a god (because the POS has never lived with him and does not know his flaws!), they did not share duties and chores, only pleasures (so she doesn't know if he would share them equally or would throw them on her shoulders), they never had to visit the reciprocal in-laws (so she doesn't know what a nightmare it is to visit his parents, how toxic they are and she has never had to fight to have him to visit her parents) she was the escape world from responsibilities and with her he could drink (he had never drunk in his entire life), he could have sex without the risk of children in the other room would hear them. She was giving him adrenaline every time she was sending him a message and he feared to be caught. And with all these things I could not compete at all. I would lose if I competed.

He had to realise his escape world just isn't what life is. But whilst I could not mimic the same behaviours, I began a change that was advantageous for me as well, so we started to go on courses to become first responders and there we channeled his desire of adrenaline (and mine!) and we changed a few things so that our life has given us changes (that I benefit from, too) and that hopefully will not lead to other infidelities.

I was doing my best as a teacher and at home as a mum and I thought I was doing my best as a wife, too. This hasn't paid off. Things took a different turn. And I am learning to be a little more selfish to preserve myself and also because I have seen it simply did not work.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 2:00 PM, Wednesday, March 27th]

I think once the WS has seen the A for what it was they then see the AP for who they were.
Yes they chose them at the time and they enjoyed it in the moment, if they didn't they wouldn't keep going back. One of the HARDEST pills for me to swallow through this is he did enjoy her company, compliments, nasty sex, and lies she told him. As much as he hates it now, I will never be able to change his mind during the A.
I will say my H knew from the beginning that his AP was beneath him (looks, money, social status, brains) that in turn gave him the ego boost and high that he needed, so I can see how your H COULD have described the A the way they did

He described her as a cheap bottle of whiskey you hide in the alley crawl space.

Isn't that what A are in general? I asked my H if he ever would have been proud to be with his AP if we divorced and he said absolutely not, she was something that made him feel better about himself when he was at his lowest point in life, so instead of fixing his own issues he escaped through someone who made him feel exactly how he wanted to feel bout himself (smart, funny, rich which he barely got by, a sex master) . My H also had a porn problem so she fed into that fantasy too and now that the porn is out of his life (hes over 3 months sober) he sees it worse now....
I THINK most WS never see the A or AP in a good light again ever once they come to their senses and even though they enjoyed it THEN , they will never see it that way again.
I know that I can't change the past and what his dumb a** logic was then but I do believe how he feels when he describes his A now, then? It was all lies, a fantasy built on newness, no responsibilities, and with a trashy low life woman who put his lying a** on a pedestal, whatever he felt wasn't real. What matters to me now is how he feels about it.
Just my opinion, clearly I am still working on accepting all of this.

I think once the WS has seen the A for what it was they then see the AP for who they were.

^^^So true.

It didn't take my WH long to be disgusted by his actions and his AP actions. Maybe it's because he realized the severe consequences of his affair from Day 1. (his job could have been in jeopardy)

I don't necessarily think my WH was attracted to his AP, their relationship was long distance, primarily an EA over emails and a few phone calls for a couple of years before she met him at his hotel (we live on opposite coasts). They saw each other a few times at team meetings, but it was always in a group setting.

What was attractive to him was all the attention she gave him, he enjoyed the daily ego-stroking.

We had many discussions about her actions and his actions, and one thing that hit home for him early on was the fact that the AP called my WH when he was at his father's funeral out-of-state (I couldn't be there, it was the end of the school year for my kids). Her excuse for the phone call was that there was something wrong with her unborn baby (she was pregnant with her husband's child).

We found out it was all a lie just to reel him in a bit more. WHO does that? My WH fell for it, hook, line and sinker and didn't even question WHY she was telling him all of this nonsense when she had a husband, a mother and a sister she could have confided in. My WH, the KISA.

Somewhere around the month after D-Day mark, my WH started calling her a name I can't say in this forum. He stepped way from his little fantasy pretty quickly.

[This message edited by annb at 9:47 PM, Wednesday, March 27th]

The other thing I became very aware of as I started frequenting SI as we recovered from fWW's A, was that fWW was 50% of this A. She was not manipulated by the AP any more than she manipulated him. All too often I see BS on here running the AP down and convincing themselves that their WS "affaired down". I bet the AP's wife feels that my fWW was not worthy of her WH. And she is right. My fWW in her affair fog was every bad name the AP's BW could call her. But her lying ass was no worse or better than his lying ass. They both carried on, and they both knew it was wrong. (If they didn't, why did they work so hard to keep it on the down low?)

It was important in my healing, and hers, to acknowledge that her activities were every bit as ugly as the AP's, and to the other family, she was the offending party, the slut who came after their husband and dad. Just like he was the prick who should have kept his skanky ass out of my marriage and family. When you don't look at your WS with the honesty of knowing they were JUST AS GUILTY as the AP, in my opinion, you are rugsweeping. And that is not honest or authentic. Until both the WS and the BS can look at the whole thing with honesty, and realize the truth of it all, you cannot face it in truth. Like I said before, the whole A was hilarious if it were not so destructive. If the truth of their A came out as a movie, shown to their friends and family, it would not have been a tragedy as much as it would be a comedy of immaturity, and weird ass,fantasies. The whole thing would be an embarrassment to both of them complete with pet names that I am sure if friends or family knew, they would laugh their asses off!

I believe the antidote to A's is honesty. The disinfectant to A's is light. When a BS and WS can look back at the behavior, and understand that it was lunacy, and fantasy and it has no place in real life, then they can find a way to R. I am not sure you can go through life feeling your WS was manipulated or hoodwinked into the A, and ever call yourself fully in R.

Just my two cents...

Woundedbear I love it!
I agree! At first my H wanted to blame her for baiting him : "wanting our house and our life" it took him a minute to take ownership (she was single) so of course he wasn’t the villain in any lives but his family’s. I will say that until the WS can look at theirselves and take complete ownership then I don’t think R is possible, we both can talk about what THEY did but of course I don’t let him use words like "we" because there is only a him and a her. Weird how phrases bother me.
But until he looked inward I didn’t even consider R.