SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sometimes ws think if they pass the polygraph, then that's the end of it,and you move forward.

Please remember, ahe has a lot of work to do,before she becomes a safe partner.

Thinking positive thoughts for the best outcome.

Hopefully she passes easily and you can at least maybe take the worst case scenario off of the table. That definitely wouldn't mean she's been a good partner, but it could limit some of the damage to your marriage.

I suggest taking whatever you find out today and think about it for at least a full day before deciding what next steps you want to take.

She passed. I feel a lot lighter. Like you say, its not like it never happened. But I feel better than I have in more than a month.

We had pancakes on our way home. She obviously feels better, too.

That's certainly a positive step! Good luck.

That's a really good start.

Now you can attempt reconciliation on a foundation of truth.

Don't settle though. Make sure she does the work.

How’s it going 5bd’s?

What are the next steps? Truth or not,
She was an admitted Cheater and very disrespectful.

Bumped by Request of OP

Its been some months since WW passed the polygraph.

The aftermath of the rollercoaster we have been on had us badly exhausted. Our anniversary was coming up in a few weeks that same April, and we had a great time. Wasnt sure we ever would again. Ive been focusing on work and my mental state is much better.

Time with Ww has been great. But things that bothered me about it all have been on my mind. I havent been able to talk about it as much. Im afraid of going frantic like I was before, preferring instead to guard my mental health’s safety. Ww has been reading about her boundary issues, and targeting her cptsd.

Her mom is narcissistic. Fostered a fear of telling people no. To this day her mom hangs out with WWs friends from childhood, with or without Ww. Those friends and her have grown apart. But her mom tries to get WW to come over and see those friends, who never contact WW, and only go through her mom. Shes trying to get inside her brokenness and see herself healthy.

But she never brings up the infidelity, and if I do, she asks, "do we need to go back to MC?"

I liked the MC, but he was too squeamish to talk frankly about the infidelity. Too expensive to keep going. And in our meetings, I just ended up doing all the talking. It did less for me than when WW made the timeline and verified it through the polygraph. It felt like either we did that or not speak about it.

So I mostly shut down on communicating about the infidelity. We talk about our issues, and about her and my family, supporting each other about our mental health trials and hangups. But i feel kind of like I dont know what more to say about the infidelity. I dont want to end up just going round and round and not making progress, but I dont want to rugsweep. What is there to say? It happened, she told me everything, it wasnt ok, shes sorry, and didnt like who she was then. Hole in my soul remains.

Back in the rollercoaster, When I was trying to figure out what happened, I asked her if she had contact info for these people so I could reach out to them and get another side of the story. She told me she didnt have their contact info anymore. I researched them and found J and Bs phone numbers online. I only managed to reach J, who denied everything and told me to leave him and his family alone. Then I snooped Ww’s Ipad and found Ks number in her contacts under her name. Couldnt reach her.

Months later I realized that there were numbers under contacts in her Ipad with no names. One of those was definitely Js number. The other presumably was B. I was bothered that she had their contact info and didnt give it to me to aid my investigation, and why did she still have it and so on. She claimed to have those contacts in her Iphone so that she could block the numbers. I accepted this, but it always bothered me she knew and did not aid my investigation.

Last weekend, I was obsessing. I snooped her Ipad again, and looked at what apps she had on her other devices. I found she downloaded Telegram in 2021. I researched telegram, and learned what it is, and that secure self destructing messages with people in her contact list would have been possible. I was perturbed, but kept it under my hat for several days. I talked to my brother about it, who cautioned me that no good could come from my obsessive panty sniffing and that WW had already proven herself. That I was being insane, to let sleeping dogs and all that.

Wednesday, WW could tell I wasnt ok, and demanded to see my cards. I finally asked her what Telegram was. She didnt know. I showed her where it had been downloaded previously. She asked me if I was looking for justification to leave her. Highlighted the unfairness of me going through her shit, asked if we need to go back to MC. Fair bit of DARVO. Speculated that maybe it was something we downloaded to communicate with doctors back during covid. I asked to go through her phone. She opened it right up. No Telegram app. I went to her contacts, and scrolled down to where J and Bs numbers would be, under the #.

But what I saw there didnt match how they were listed in the Ipad. I saw instead, two blank spaces. I tapped on them and the numbers opened up. She said, yeah, thats them, we already covered this. They are blocked, and I didnt want to have to ever see their names again. I went to my own phone, and deleted the name of an old contact. It reappeared at the bottom of my contact list, showing the number. Not a blank space. I asked her, "how did you get it to be blank?"

"Oh thats easy, after you delete the name, just put a space".

I had never thought to do something like that, and thought it was shady AF. I went back to her phone, and opened one of the contacts. It was Bs. Blocked. I went back and opened the other. Js number. That one wasnt blocked.

I said to her, Js number isnt blocked. Her mouth hung open. "I dont know whats going on." She accused me of gaslighting her. Asked if I unblocked it. Doesnt recall telegram, doesnt recall his number not being blocked, crying, wailing, all the stops.

I asked if they coordinated months ago when I got on the case. She said no.

I was calm throughout this, but could feel myself flopping around inside. We talked and talked it over. Went to bed. When we woke up, we went to work. Came home, ate dinner, and eventually she said she believes Telegram was used at her job to coordinate between teams and she couldnt think of that at the time.

I admit, its possible. i recall her coordinating and sharing memes on an app with the team she used to manage around 2021. Probably is why she had it. My recollection is that whatever app they used, they discontinued in favor of group texts shortly after they tried it. So it makes some sense.

But finding Js number unblocked threw me. Every other former coworker is blocked. But maybe it was just an accidental oversight when she wiped everything to hide from before. He lives on the other side of the country with his wife and kids. Not a threat, and I cant see any way for her to have time to cheat. Our schedules overlap and her workdays are too short.

Im here, listening, ready to recieve some thoughts. Thank you guys in advance.

[This message edited by 5bluedrops at 5:59 PM, Saturday, August 10th]

I just read your posts, having missed all this before. Your story is a worse version of my own, and I’ve been wanting to get my wife a poly as well. It seems shocking that your wife passed. Amazing,actually. That being said, her deceit level has been off the charts. My wife lied about her infidelity for more than 10 years as well, and I have to say, keeping secrets that long requires dedication and a flawed personality. Though mine hid it (badly), I think, mostly to preserve her marriage to me.

Yours actively repeated the crime of making out and getting fingered by several people while making you their laughingstock. I would very much believe that she may do a little "fun" contact with J. No reason that he wouldn’t still enjoy nudes of her by telegram etc. I would be blown away to find my wife’s AP phone number in her phone.

I’m sorry, but this is mega suspicious. She needs full device transparency to you, all the time. She has earned no trust at all.

I agree, red flags.

WHY were their numbers on her phone anyway. They should have been deleted a long time ago.

Why aren't you allowing yourself to be honest with your WW about your feelings? Healing doesn't take months, it takes years. IN my own situation we discussed the A for years, less as time went on, but it was several years and I was still a basket case asking the same questions over and over again until my mind fully processed the information. Gently, you are rugsweeping and she is happy to go along with not having to deal with the aftermath of her destructive behavior. A win-win for her.

Accidental oversight? He's the first one that should have been deleted/blocked. Why is she saving his number anyhow? Have you checked phone records?

IMO she's still not a safe partner. Sorry. :(

Hi there and good to hear from you. I have some thoughts I will write later, but first a question.

Are the old friends her mom is interacting with the ones from the golf course? The ones she cheated with? Or Did they know about her infidelity at the time? Who are they?

Thanks.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 4:30 AM, Sunday, August 11th]

I am unable to read all responses. This might have been mentioned. She has the characteristics of someone either sexually abused or ignored to the point of true neglect. I think a few meetings with a EMDR therapist will uncover a boatload of chaos in her childhood.

Brittn,

Ive read into your posts, and the overlap between our experience is uncanny. In my case, my wifes story would have been impossible for me to believe without the polygraph. The things that were allowed to occur made the things that she said didnt happen seem so unlikely, that the polygraph examiner obviously disbelieved it when we related the background. But when my WW passed, the examiner was emphatic, ecstatic even. I appreciate you bringing me awareness of your situation. I have felt so alone in my specific experience, and you have made me feel somewhat less so, though it is little comfort to either of us. I hope for a favorable outcome for us both, wherever that may be.

Annb,

After this latest discovery, I had Ww delete the contact entries for her APs. Her maintaining those numbers in her contacts really hurts me. I accepted her explanation that she had them in there to keep them blocked, but the refusal to divulge, and the lie that she no longer had them when I was attempting to reach APs for answers, along with the sneaky way of making them look like null entries, capped off by J not being blocked paints a picture of ugly intention.

To some degree, sharing my feelings requires trust. I was raised to expect to be punished for inconveniencing others with my troubles. Its really hard for me to do when I dont have an iron clad and effective way of making my case. Im not trying to rugsweep. I reasoned that my wife was working on her problems, that we understood the past to a large degree, we were being intimate and that it was time for me to work on acceptance.

I always knew a point would arrive when she had either told me everything there was or everything she would. And I wouldnt ever be able to know when that point had or hadnt come, and that I might even learn new things that she didnt think or remember or find the strength to tell me, and have to decide what to so with that and the pain it evokes.

Im realizing that it falls into the category of "things I cant change, and wisdom to know the difference". It has been a struggle to accept that, but Im working on it. Part of that adjustment is how willing I am to let it affect me.

Stevesn,

The friends that my WW has outgrown that I mentioned, are from her childhood, with no relation to the infidelity. My wife grew up alongside them, and as they grew in age, they grew apart.

She and they were hardly close, and her mom pushed them together, inorganically. We are now in our mid 30s and her mother is still arranging hangouts with those former friends who are married, have kids, and who never contact my wife or vice versa. If my wife doesnt go over to her moms house to engage, her mom hangs out with these people without her, and gives her the cold shoulder for a while to punish the insubordination.

She attempts to commandeer all of my wifes free time, controlling any decision or aspect she possibly can. That we dont have kids is an issue, and other couples children have been openly declared surrogate grandkids, with framed photos of them in my mother in laws house.

Cooley2here,

My wife does have characteristics of sexual abuse and neglect. She possesses the "little girl voice" that is sometimes attributed to sufferers of molestation and rape, but she claims no such thing ever occurred.

She has a really oppressive fawn response to social pressure. Typing no into a text is almost impossible for her. She starts by inventing excuses, terrified that if she tells someone, no, I dont want to (go to dinner, cover that shift, buy your end table, what have you) that they will hate and discard her. This reflex had some part to play in the infidelity, and in troubles in her career. It led to a large number of dissatisfying sexual encounters in college that she resents allowing to happen, and one sided friendships in which she was used for money, rides, and favors.

Her childhood was filled with contempt, resentment, and indifference. I have watched home movies of her being constantly corrected, where and how she stood, her posture, hands physically taken out of her pockets and hair constantly adjusted. Laughter at her fear of riding a bike for the first time, jokes and eyerolling about what a handful she was(even now her mother is fond of complaining about how "intense and difficult she was" to friends and family), and general disregard and disrespect at most times.

Her father and mother fought, and her dad mostly preferred to be at work and avoided important moments in her life. She feels very attached to him, but he refused to make her a priority and definitely is responsible for her abandonment and attachment problems.

She is trying very hard to face and learn about these things and how they shaped her boundary and attachment habits.

Shes frustrated, feeling that she is getting worse instead of better with introspection.

She wants to listen to me and not speak, saying, "I always make it worse by saying the wrong thing". Its no good if she doesnt participate, makes me less likely to.

[This message edited by 5bluedrops at 2:10 PM, Sunday, August 11th]

All I can say is the story(s) regarding telegram and the contacts in her phone/ipad just reek of bullshit. I probably have 250 apps on my phone, some all the way back to the first iPhone. I could tell you what purpose every one was installed for.
You may have the whole truth, but she’s still trying to obfuscate it as much as she can get away with. I don’t think she’s anywhere near safe at all.

I had previously been unaware of the "Telegram" app. It advertises "end-to-end encryption messaging". So, if I am reading this correctly, if someone wanted to communicate to another person, it would appear that a third party would never be able to see what they said. One site said the app is used a lot by scammers and shysters who use the app instead of being on the "dark web".

IMO, the only reason someone would be on that app is if they wanted to hide some things and never get found out. Very shady.

She is very far from being a safe partner for you.

Good luck to you.

You're rugsweeping.

She refuses transparency, and gets angry when you look through her stuff. Full transparency is a necessity. Any time you try to talk another it, she shuts you up by mentioning MC, who didn't even talk about the infidelity and didn't hold her accountable. Next time tell her no, I don't want to talk to talk to my wife about it. Or, she throws a tantrum with the fake tears or anger.

She's not sorry..she has no remorse. I mentioned that many ws think a passed polygraph means that's the end of it. Unremorseful ws feel that way.

Life's too short to be this miserable. She will never be what you need. She's not even trying.

Hellfire,

I know you are speaking from a concerned place for me, which is kind of you, from your hard-won knowledge and valuable personal experiences, which I respect.

I concede that in our exhaustion and relief, past the polygraph we did not maintain the daily diligence we put into the matter when I was flooding everyday, and repeating myself into madness.

But I dispute the notion that taking a few months to catch our breath, struggling to discuss the issue, working on past trauma for both of us, and ultimately returning to the issue, is rugsweeping.

Rugsweeping is a conscious effort to pretend the infidelity never happened, is it not? Neither of us said to the other, lets just go back to normal.

She had a tantrum. Its not unheard of for waywards. Point me to a wayward who got all this shit right the first time. Cant do it? Didnt think so. How many of you thought she would stick to her story in the parking lot? Pass the test? Yeah, not many of you. Me neither.

by going and taking the test, with the possibility she might lose me to an erroneous detection of deception, she won back a large measure of my benefit of the doubt, and some lost respect.

Im not giving up on her. Shes got as good a shot at proving herself safe as anyone. Shes not there yet. I get that.

But in the days since she acted like that, shes picked it back up and been empathic and cooperative.

So, ya know, I disagree with some of what you said. Thanks for telling me what you think though.

[This message edited by 5bluedrops at 1:19 AM, Monday, August 12th]

Hang in there. Of course your WW may balk at times of going over her infidelity with you and reliving her betrayal. To keep going over her worst moments and shameful behavior. No fun but absolutely necessary. She needs to understand and appreciate the trauma you suffered as a result of her infidelity. You are not trying to punish her when you trigger or need to rehash events. Your brain requires you to go over and over the events due to the trauma you suffered. I recommend seeing a betrayal trauma specialist to help you and your WW.

Since the polygraph she has continued to lie, she gets angry when you look through her stuff, deflects when you want to talk about it, and has had him in her contacts..and got caught having him there.

No. No ws is perfect after dday. However, the ones with the most successful chance at reconciliation do none of the things she's doing. No real work seems to be getting done on her end. A ws who wants reconciliation stops the lies, is fully transparent, empathetic,and doesn't keep the ap in their contacts. Sure, some ws are like yours. And their bs has an uphill battle, basically dragging their ws through a reconciliation attempt.

It's been a few months. What's her plan to change?

IIRC, your wife reads your thread. So your response to me isn't surprising. You're defending her bad behavior. Making excuses for her. That rarely works out. It might get you love bombed for a few days. But no real change is taking place.

Good luck to you.

[This message edited by HellFire at 2:35 PM, Monday, August 12th]

Here’s my social work coming in to play. She is so tragically damaged that she probably needs very in-depth EMDR. She has to dig out every nasty, horrible thing done to her and put it in the sunlight to take its power away. You are dealing with a child. Believe it or not babies and children actually have jobs to complete. They grow physically, they grow mentally, and they are supposed to grow emotionally, but her childhood stunted that. She is probably very close to being an infant emotionally. The problem is our memories just aren’t easily retrievable for our early years and so a good bit of what happened to her is hidden from her, but it’s in her buried memories. A very experienced therapist can help her dig them out, but it’s going to be very very painful for her. She needs to do it because she has got to get to that unbelievable amount of rage that is probably deeply buried she does not know its there. How dare her family do this to a child! How dare they! I know you love her so you need to push her some, but she cannot go through life like this. I would imagine she has never in one single day had a happy experience because her entire life is spent on the knife edge of excruciating anxiety.