SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi, This is my first post. 7 weeks from DDay. WS is doing a lot of things right. In y'alls experiences, how much effort should I put in to correct and guide his behavior for things I have already told him I need him to do? My brain says to sit back and see if he does it and take notes. My heart wants to keep reminding him of the things I have already said and requested. I'm not even sure if reconciliation is remotely possible. For example, when I have asked when he had one of his affairs, his answers have always started with "I think". WTF. You don't know???? I've asked for this time several times and it's always "I think ..." Or, as we are living apart now, he said he isn't sure how much to contact me. I have said over and over that the more contact the better. I'm dying here and I'll either be grateful for the connection or ignore him, but his job is to at least try. So why do I feel like he doesn't reach out enough? He doesn't ask me to take a walk or anything. He's not pro-active which I've told him I need him to be. So, bottom line - the big things he is doing right (signing post nup, changing jobs, quitting drinking). What about the day to day things - how much do I guide this process to really see what he is capable of?

Dandelion,

Sorry you had to find us, but glad you did.

how much effort should I put in to correct and guide his behavior for things I have already told him I need him to do?

You've asked a great question, and you're probably already guessing the answer is very little.

Stating your needs and boundaries is fine and necessary--totally your job. Deciding to act on that information? Totally his.

I think about the movie called He's Just Not That Into You. At one point, a character tells the woman who is trying WAY to hard to pursue potential romantic interests that "if a guy wants to be with a girl, he will make it happen, no matter what."

It's just a movie, of course...but the principle does seem sound applied to any relationship and gender.

He betrayed his vows/promises. He dropped his end of the relationship rope. Is he going to pick it up and do his share in the work? The work that he create a need for by cheating?

IMO, the ground you might give is to suggest that HE initiate regular "state of the union" meetings and updates--maybe even agree on days and times for these. During these discussions, you might ask what he's been working on? What needs does he remember you voicing and what has he been doing to meet these needs?

One communication tactic that feels pretty stilted, but actually helps during these discussions is to mirror back what the other person just said before you respond, kind of: "So, you're saying..." or "Your thinking...." or "....is what you've been doing or working on." Then pause to allow the original speaker to add to or clarify their position.
It slows the conversation down. It helps people focus on what's being said, and not just thinking about their response. And it helps people understand and retain what their partner has said better.

If you have this discussion, you might even ask if he's ever considered writing your needs, his goals, etc. on a Notes app on his phone. This helped my husband a lot.

But still, he needs to be initiating the action.

Also, he should be in individual counseling with someone who will hold him accountable.

Thank you so much for responding. I really liked your suggestions. It might be too late. I had a total melt down today and realized that this whole time I thought I was being assertive and decisive, I have actually also been doing the pick me dance. I feel pathetic. I told him I want to divorce just to see if he would fight for me and he just left. No fighting for me at all.

Dandelion, at 7 weeks out, it’s still very early for the 2 of you. It’s usually mentioned here to not make a decision about R or D for a while. Get into therapy and work on yourself. It does sound like your husband is putting in some effort which is more than I can say about my WW at that time. Maybe approach him and let him know that mentioning D was a knee jerk reaction from being hurt. Let him know that this is a marathon that is going to take time to work through. Let him know that when you tell him what you need, you will be observing how he acts/reacts thereafter. If need be, have him write down the things you tell him you need from him so he can keep going back and have clarity in the things he should be working on. I know my WW never starts a conversation about what she is feeling even though I’ve told her that open communication moving forward is paramount to our future together. It’s going to be bumpy moving forward for some time, but things will get better. Find a good IC and work on you. If you are anything like me, your self esteem has been shattered and you need it rebuilt to have the strength to plow through this. Once you start to believe in yourself again, you begin to feel empowered and that’s a good thing. Also, let go of the outcome. It’s easier said than done, but it does help in making choices down the road. I’m sure more senior members will chime in soon. Listen to what they say and believe in yourself.

I don't think there is an exact answer to your original question. However, there are a few principles to keep in mind.

The WS, just like the BS, is experiencing something they never have before. And if the WS has remorse then they are experiencing post Dday with a degree of trauma too. I am not advocating that the BS provide a lot of empathy but that you understand your WS's situation. In that context, I think it is important to provide feedback about your needs that is very specific. I need A. B is not helpful. Give examples. Remind him that you are on an emotional rollercoaster and your reactions to specific behaviors you've asked for may not actually be positive in the moment even though the WS behavior is the right one. This is confusing for a WS. "I did what she asked for but it didn't produce a positive reaction?" Your WS must understand, expect and accept that dynamic of mixed reactions. And the fact that it will continue to last for a long time due to the trauma he has inflicted on you.

Has he read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda McDonald?

If you told him you want a divorce,and he just left,that tells you how much effort he would have put into reconciliation.

A new BS says they want to divorce 100 times. And they mean it, typically. The ws needs to give them reason not to want a divorce, by putting in the hard work.

signing post nup, changing jobs, quitting drinking)

This isn't much. A post nup is often thrown out in a divorce. If the affair was with a coworker, he probably would have been fired anyway, so he would have eventually needed a new job,and if he has a drinking problem, be needed to stop anyway.

If he comes around,and you do want to attempt reconciliation, you need to set requirements. At MINIMUM...

He goes NC with OW. He also blocks her.

Std tests.

He is fully transparent. You get full access to all accounts. And the phone. Passwords included.

He is completely honest about all things.

He answers all of your questions without anger or defensiveness.

He is proactive in healing the damage he has caused you, himself, and the marriage.

He gets into ic to figure out why he cheated. Hint...it has zero to do with you, or the marriage.

He is accountable for his time away from you.

He removes as many triggers as possible.

He writes a complete timeline.

He drops any friends who knew of the affair.

He understands this takes years to recover from.

And anything else you need to begin to feel safe.

Your only job, this early in, is to take care of yourself and the kids. Get tested for stds. And call her husband and tell him about the affair. Don't message. She knows you know,and will intercept any messages. He deserves to know. Don't tell your husband. He's supposed to be NC with her,so if he says anything, you know he's still in the affair. Watch him. His actions tell you if he is R material. He put a ton of effort onto having an affair. What effort is he putting into becoming a safe partner. Another hint? Love bombing, and doing work around the house,and being around more is not at all the work that will make him safe.

This close to d day you should be focused on protecting yourself. R as a goal is fine but you need to be on stable ground first.

Sorry hit post before I meant to.

Your WS should be all in for R. He should be trying to ask you what you need and making every effort to win you back. Being straightforward and telling him what you need is about all you should be doing there.

As was already said, counseling for you is important right now. Be safe.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 4:53 PM, Saturday, May 18th]

Also, do not share this site with him. This is your safe place. Bringing a freshly caught WS here is a disaster. New bs often think they will be the exception. They very,very rarely are.

Let’s call this what it is.

You keep telling him what you need.

He’s not doing it.

You have a choice - accept him for who & what he is OR decide this marriage isn’t working and move forward with a D or S.

I see from your history that any time you spend dragging him down the R path is only hurting you.

I was in your shoes after dday1. I did everything I could. I didn’t know about SI at the time but when I finally had enough - I at least knew I did my very best to try and R — all while he did nothing.

People only change WHEN and IF they decide to change. No one else can make it happen.

So Dandelion, At 7 weeks out you're probably still in shock. Going back, forth, up, down, back, forward, and sideways is absolutely normal for a BS, often for longer than 7 weeks. It took my mind 13 weeks to start calming down.

What helped me a lot was developing an ego state that served as a n observer. I watched myself ride the waves. I monitored my health. I told myself to do the minimum necessary to keep our life going - paying bills, getting myself to IC and MC, seeing that my WS got to IC. She also broke her shoulder, IIRC, and I got her to doctors' appointments, food shopping, and other errands, because she was prohibited from driving.

I also asked any question I wanted to ask and kept W's feet to a fire.

Being betrayed is a trauma. You can heal, but give yourself time. For me, the worst was 6-12 months out. Since then, I felt better slowly for 2-3 years, and I considered myself healed 3.5-4 years out. YMWV.

The SI rule of thumb is 2-5 years to recover. You WILL NOT feel as bad as you feel now for the whole period. It is hard to imagine at 7 weeks out that you really will feel joy again, but unless you're very unlucky, you will.

*****

I think the BS ought to put a lot of effort into figuring out what they want, figuring out how they'll know they're getting or not, and asking for what they want. I'd recommend putting virtually no effort into cajoling/telling/hoping/manipulating the WS into doing what the BS wants the WS to do.

Asking for what one wants takes the form of, 'Will you ...?' The BS needs to be willing to take a 'No,' but hearing 'Bo' too many times probably should end the M.

IMO, the BS serves themselves best by having some deal killers. The BS still needs to ask the WS to meet the requirements, but the BS also needs to pull the plug on the M if the WS refuses to meet a requirement. My W knew our M was over if she refused to go NC, do IC, do MC (after I vetted the MC and saw her work), being transparent, and - above all - no more lies. But she had total freedom to meet the requirements or not.

*****

I believe in testing the WS's willingness to do the work necessary for R. If they're going to fail, I want them to fail as soon as possible.

But ... I also think the BS should be true to themself. We can discuss different ways for BSes to act, but BSes get to and must make their own decisions.

I'll note a second to Sisson:

I believe in testing the WS's willingness to do the work necessary for R. If they're going to fail, I want them to fail as soon as possible.

But ... I also think the BS should be true to themself. We can discuss different ways for BSes to act, but BSes get to and must make their own decisions.

My only hint would be to hit google and look for "how to help your spouse heal" and turn him loose...

How much and IF he cares will become apparent by the effort he expends.

Wish you luck -