SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

A few thoughts based on my experience:

Forgiveness has to be earned. That takes thousands of trust-building, self-redeeming actions by the WS. Thousands. Think years, not months.

I brought my lack of forgiveness to an MC session about 2.5 years out from d-day. Our MC refused to discuss it - 'It's too early,' she said. That was with no blameshifting, no minimizing, no gaslighting (which stopped on d-day). That was with a WS who was changing before my eyes into a good partner.

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Don't conflate your healing with empathy for the WS. They are 2 separate things. Accept, attend to, and heal from your own pain. I think the BS's level of pain has no relation to any mitigating factors in the WS's being.

My W is a CSA survivor. Many CSA survivors do not cheat, but my W grew up vulnerable to an approach from ow. I'm very sorry about that. I put more than a little energy into supporting her healing because I loved her. But her A was devastating nonetheless.

For a while after d-day, I buried myself in grief over her CSA. My own pain just festered. Dealing with my own pain improved everything about my life, and it freed up energy that I could use for more personal healing, for supporting my W, and for healing our M.

The BS is the BS; WS is WS. They are separate people with separate needs. Put your own oxygen mask on first.

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Don't conflate what you want and what you will do. I preach starting your thinking about your relationship by finding out what the BS wants, irrespective of what the BS thinks they should want.

If you want to split, you'll save a lot of energy by starting with what you want, because you don't need anyone's permission to file for D.

If you want R, life is a lot more complicated - you have to evaluate your WS as a candidate for R. If your H is unremorseful, R will not work, and you'll have to deal with all the implications of that. Your WS may be remorseful but want to split anyway. And if your WS is remorseful and says they want to R, you have a lot of work to do with no guarantee of success.

IOW, after knowing what you want, you then have to figure out if what you want looks attainable without demanding more from you than you want to give.

But ... by starting with figuring out what you want, if you don't think you can get it, you can work for the next best outcome. I'm never going to ride my bicycle up or down a mountain, as much as I'd like to; I can still ride my heart out in less demanding terrain.

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My reco is give up trying to control the outcome, because that requires you to be able to control other people, and you just can't do that.

Make healing your goal. Process the pain of being betrayed out of your body- no matter what the betrayal was.

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The post above tells readers what to do, and I don't mean to do that. It's my best advice, and readers are free to ignore or modify it so that it makes the best sense to them.

Tough upbringing-

I don’t think it excuses an affair but the reason we talk about FOO (family of origin) issues is not because they caused the affair but because some of the patterns we learn in coping and watching adult relationships, and even the trauma we all go through can cause us to perceive, think about and behave in ways that no longer serve us.

Example- I learned to people please and walk on egg shells growing up. To anticipate my mothers radical mood swings, emotional immaturity and frequent abuse.

This did not cause me to cheat but it was a contributing factor that I didn’t learn to change those patterns and eventually fueled it into entitlement.

A bad childhood maybe can contribute to an Internal environment that makes it easier to cheat, while it might make another more comfortable to stay in a bad marriage or be unable to be vulnerable in a good one.

But saying would you forgive someone with a bad childhood? No. But I might forgive someone who looks at their patterns of behaviors and reactions and changes those so they are likely to be more honest, faithful, vulnerable or whatever.

To change how you think about things takes concerted awareness, and someone willing to do that and change what they were taught in that bad childhood so they can be a better spouse, that’s maybe a way that you can begin to forgive them. It likely will take far more than that on its own. However not doing that work could take down the marriage on it’s own.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:49 PM, Thursday, May 23rd]

I believe all affairs are painful and destroy trust so that it will potentially end the marriage/relationship. However, I also believe some affairs are worse than others but the severity depends on the interpretation of the BS. A dealbreaker for you might not be a dealbreaker for me.

Below is something I posted in another thread that relates to this topic and some of the factors that may make an A that much worse. I feel like many of the factors below would have made me split but that the relative lack of intensity and duration, combined with a proactive confession, made it much easier for me to decide to R.

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Everyone is different in how they decide on D or R and I think no one knows what they will actually do until they experience it. I think of 3 categories:

1) Strength, length of the relationship before the A and 'entanglements' in the relationship. Entanglements may be a bad word but means children (particularly young children) and finances (joint business ownership and/or ability to retire on time or well if D)

2) Duration and intensity of the A itself. This includes a huge list of variables and some of them may seem small to one person but be the death knell for another. Was it a PA, was it an EA, how long, was there direct, deliberate, repeated choosing the AP instead of the BS for special events, was sex denied the BS, were specific sexual acts given to AP and not BS, did the A happen in the marital home and/or bed, was the AP a friend of BS or mutual friend of the marriage, did WS introduce AP to BS during A, did WS insult or demean BS to AP or to WS friends and family, was an STD acquired, did WS or AP get pregnant

3) Response of the WS on/after Dday and self healing ability of BS. amount of trickle truth and gaslighting, ability to get to remorse, WS ability to own their actions and stop blaming BS, ability of WS to persevere with healing the BS and their own healing without rugsweeping, did the WS confess or not, can the BS take the actions they need to heal, is there a spiritual component or faith component that propels BS toward forgiveness

Thanks everyone for your replies. I never meant for any of the things I listed to be excuses for an affair but after re-reading my post I see how that may have come across.

I have found this to be an interesting discussion 💚

No, all affairs are not equal.

The affair my WW had is way worse than your spouse’s affair, or any other affair reported on this forum.

And your spouse’s affair is way worse than the one my WW had, or any other affair reported on this forum.

To put it differently, if I told you the glass of water in front of you at dinner had some piss in it, would you care how much piss?

I’ll be honest, if my WW’s A had been EA strictly, it probably would’ve been easier for me to move past. I understand how insidious and damaging EAs are, but I also understand how easy it is for them to start. Now I want to clarify something, to me an EA is strictly the emotional/telling AP stuff instead of spouse. Once sexual things arise to me that’s a PA. Sending pics, dirty talk etc, that is a PA in my opinion, even if the act hasn’t taken place. It’s one thing to get to close to someone and pump the breaks, it’s another to make it a deliberate decision to become sexual in nature, regardless of the contact. That’s just me though. Another factor is how involved with social/kids AP is. Thats another damning factor of WWs A. It’s one thing for her to cheat on me, it’s another to involve our kids, which she did on multiple occasions. There is even a time where she got mad at me for being short with her AP, and made a big show about how controlling and horrible I was, and basically kicked me out and had dinner with her mom, our kids, and AP. To me, that will always be unforgivable.

So no, I don’t think all affairs are equal as far as forgiveness goes. I don’t think too many people would even attempt R in my position if they knew the full extent of my WWs A. I do think as far as pain and devastation goes, yes they are all equal, it’s the aftermath, recovery and the full extent of WP fucked upness that is different in scale. Again, just my opinion

Ink.

Just a real quick t/j to say:

lgroot, excellent, vulnerable post. Your new voice and perspective is most welcome here

I am so thankful to have found you all. Thank you for welcoming my craziness when I felf so alone. I was the lowest of low and I picked myself up and found my voice after finding you all.

I really don’t know where I would be.

[This message edited by Groot1988 at 5:05 AM, Friday, May 24th]

There is even a time where she got mad at me for being short with her AP, and made a big show about how controlling and horrible I was, and basically kicked me out and had dinner with her mom, our kids, and AP. To me, that will always be unforgivable.

It's things like this that, for some BS, are too much to handle when combined with other parts of the A. Being badmouthed or very directly substituted at an event is another layer of betrayal that many As don't have. Personally, a WS that compartmentalizes (if all else is equal) makes the A easier to potentially R from than the WS who badmouths, demeans you etc.

[This message edited by Trdd at 4:03 PM, Friday, May 24th]

This did not happen to me but when I found out I did not confront because of terror of being destitute and losing my home. I had very young children and no way to provide for them. That fear stayed with me for years until I finished college and got a job.

My huge recommendation is that the SAHP get a paycheck to invest/save in case of this.

The second one I imagine is when a Spouse/SO leaves for a relative or friend because those are two loses.

I still think any time you are cheated on you lose your ideals forever.