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I'm coming to the conclusion that I just can't do this anymore. I'm ready to throw in the towel on reconciliation as I don't think I can heal with my WH.

When I'm "up" and I'm positive, loving and engaged in the M, he is literally everything a BS could hope for. He is caring, he will stay up until the early hours - he would do anything I ask. I can see in many aspects how much he has changed for the better and how hard he is trying.

But when I am "down" and I'm resentful, accusatory, angry and full of disgust, he makes things so much worse. He just does not seem to understand that I still need empathy, because I'm literally falling apart. He makes me feel abandoned all over again.

Don't get me wrong, he tries to be empathetic, but he just rather quickly starts to snap. I get reminded of how "good things were at the weekend" for example. Or when I reach the point where I say I don't think I can do this anymore, he says things like "ok, let's fucking tell the kids tonight then shall we?" - he can't see how manipulative and cruel this is, and just says he is trying to make me see sense/snap me out of it 😪

He says he feels I need to commit to R, or not. But given the last disclosure was only a few months ago, and my gut still says there's more, I feel he should have zero expectations of any certainty from me at this point.

When I am "down", I feel like he inadvertently redirects all of the upset on to him, in various ways. When I try and draw his attention to this, he just argues with me about it and maintains that he's not and then it spirals - despite me previously imploring him to LISTEN TO WHAT I'M TELLING HIM I NEED.

I sometimes wonder what I'm even healing from exactly - the affair, the fact he abandoned me, the constant lying, or the piss poor way he has handled reconciliation in the last 2 years. Its hard to know anymore, everything feels lumped into one.

It's my 2nd Dday anniversary on Friday, and I'm really, really struggling. I keep re-living all of the events that lead up to it, the agony he put me and the kids through - and the fact that whilst I was fading away, he was busy screwing his girlfriend and helping her set up for her birthday party 🤢

Just feeling so lost. But I know deep down I can't carry on. I needed him to be there for me even when I am at my worst, but I think he's proven that he just can't.

Sorry, I just needed to put all of this in writing 😪

You’ve been heard, WhiskeyBlues.

For what it’s worth, I think this is what kills R for a lot of BSs. After all the destruction, disrespect and dishonesty, the continued belief that they somehow get to steer things in a way that works best for them and that they still get to lash out and manipulate if you are anything but a model of forgiveness proves to just be too much (as if they haven’t already done waaaaaayyyyy too much.

Take care of you, right now. Give yourself whatever time you need to make a decision. You don’t have to do one damned thing on his terms at this point. You’ve done more than your part. There’s no shame in walking away if that’s what you need to do.

Sending you a huge hug of solidarity and understanding. So many of us here understand what you’re going through right now.

Thank you NowWhat106. I've woken up after just a few hours sleep, ready to wake the kids and go to work and act like I'm not dying on the inside.

Reading you reply has helped, especially "You don’t have to do one damned thing on his terms at this point", as a good reminder.

I’m sorry you are going through this. The WS really don’t get it, they don’t know how life altering their choices are for the BS. They push to move on, and expect you to get over it.

I told my W that if she was really committed to R, she’d better buckle up because it’s going to be a rough ride.

He needs to stop standing above yelling for you to get out of the pit, he needs to get down in there with you.

Tanner, you are right and this is what I have essentially tried to keep conveying to him.

"He needs to stop standing above yelling for you to get out of the pit, he needs to get down in there with you."

^^^This is what I mean. But I know he would read this, and believe this IS what he is doing. And like I say, when I am "up", he would be correct - I do feel he's there with me. And yet in hindsight when I'm really looking at the situation, I think its transactional. When I'm validating him and making him feel safe in the marriage, he is there for me, 100%.

But when I'm an angry WhiskeyBlues (and when I say angry, I don't mean I'm shouting abuse at him or anything) and I pull back, he mirrors this. He ends up saying and doing hurtful things.

So I'm starting to see that he's not really down there in the pit with me at all ☹ He's good when I'm giving him what he desperately needs, which is to feel safe.

[This message edited by WhiskeyBlues at 9:14 AM, Wednesday, June 5th]

I think its transactional. When I'm validating him and making him feel some in the marriage, he is there for me, 100%.

Well, he’s there for himself 100%, so he wants to make sure he’s validating your "good behavior." Positive reinforcement, ya know.

So I'm starting to see that he's not really down there in the pit with me at all ☹ He's good when I'm giving him what he desperately needs, which is to feel safe.

You have it completely straight, WB. This is my WH all over the place. In the end, if it’s transactional and he’s just mirroring the behavior that he wants to see, and bullying when he doesn’t, he has likely never really tried or wanted to develop empathy and really understand the pain that he’s caused you.

And for me, him feeling that he had ANY right to demand being able to continue in his comfort zone when he had completely destroyed my ability to feel comfortable and safe EVER was just an absolute dealbreaker. Not that it mattered, because when someone is so completely committed to their own comfort and clinging to their fuckedupedness because true change is just too scary, you really have nothing to work with.

So interesting to read these comments, I’m only a year in and experiencing exactly the same as you in that any affection or love I receive seems conditional on him receiving it from me first. This tells me they are still working from their ego.

Prime example; I haven’t been able to say I love you out loud to him for the last year and guess what, he therefore hasn’t said it to me as he says it’s not nice to tell someone you love them when they don’t say it back….

I don’t have any advice to offer I’m afraid as I’m in the thick of it like you but as I’m healing I feel like I’m realising (or might just be my experience) that people don’t really change at their core. Sure they can learn and grow and understand better what right and wrong is but they are who they are at their core and always will be.

I think for a long time before the affair I hadn't notified this pattern as I was always loving and affectionate toward him so he was with me. Only now that I’m not that way toward him right now that I’m realising my situation is actually as you describe- transactional.

My partner was exactly who I needed him to be after d-day but we are straight back to old, lazy habits where it feels like unless I prompt us to make plans he won’t, or unless I ask him to sit on the sofa with me he won’t. The times he does though (few and far between) make me think oh maybe he can change …but I think this is probably a bread crumbing effect.

Fair enough if you feel like you’re done, you have every right to be and it’s a scary realisation to have when you thought they were your forever person. I think infidelity opens our eyes to so much more than the act of betrayal but we can actually do a deeper dive into the relationship without the rose tinted glasses and see what was actually not working that we turned a blind eye to and what was working. Then we can determine what we want out of a relationship to feel happy and fulfilled either with them, without them or with someone else in the future.

I don’t feel that we should keep telling someone how to love us in the way that we need without seeing any change as you will be miserable that they aren’t capable of levelling up for you, so we have to determine if the love they are able to show is enough for you to have that happy and fulfilling life, or if it’s not enough.

How old are your kids?

Do they already know in an age appropriate way that "dad lied to mom and hurt her badly" or anything like that?

His affair is not your secret to keep.

"You have it completely straight, WB. This is my WH all over the place. In the end, if it’s transactional and he’s just mirroring the behavior that he wants to see, and bullying when he doesn’t, he has likely never really tried or wanted to develop empathy and really understand the pain that he’s caused you."

Everyone is different. I got to the point where the pain of being with a person who did horrible things to me and our family…massive betrayal… and had the gall to tell me that if I did not meet his needs he was going to cheat again….was worse than the pain of leaving. At least in my case he was being honest. He was without empathy for the pain he had caused me. As if his prior behavior was not enough to clue me in as to who he really is. But I was a slow learner.

Some people and relationships are workable and salvageable. I have seen waywards in this group do hard work to make themselves safe partners. It is really hard work. I respect them for it. I liken it to getting "sober" with regard to relationships. The person getting "sober" has to commit to it and work really really hard on their shortcomings. Of course the family has to work on themselves too. But a spouse does not cause their spouse to drink and it’s the same way with regard to cheating.

I post in new beginnings to try to give a window into my world not living with infidelity. Whether with the same partner with both of you working hard or whether alone or with a new partner, the feeling of living with someone who has a good spirit and a good conscious towards me is palpably different.

I wish you peace and healing.

Or when I reach the point where I say I don't think I can do this anymore, he says things like "ok, let's fucking tell the kids tonight then shall we?" - he can't see how manipulative and cruel this is, and just says he is trying to make me see sense/snap me out of it

He knows how heartbroken you and the children were when he abandoned you all for his mistress and how reluctant you are to put your kids through that experience again. He knows that proposing divorce is a good way to shut down an argument... and if that doesn't work, then he can turn the tables and make you feel as if you are the cause of marriage ending, freeing him of all blame and responsibility.

He is manipulative and cruel.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 3:02 PM, Wednesday, June 5th]

If you're done, you're done. You don't owe your WS anything accept ethical behavior - and you owe that to yourself more than to him. You don't owe a 2nd chance; you owe an umpteenth chance even less.

And you're not 'giving up'. You're putting an end to an effort that isn't working well.

The one thing I want to stress, though, is not to underestimate the power of asking for what you want. Telling someone you want something is very different from asking for it. If you don't believe me, try it out.

One of the recommendations for treating other people is to mirror them. If that's why your H is mirroring you, your relationship may be retrievable. I know that I usually like to withdraw when I feel sick. When I withdrew after d-day, my W let me alone. I eventually realized I wanted her to approach me when I was withdrawing. I asked her to do that; she agreed; and our life together got much better.

I suggest the following if you want to make one last try: tell your WS what you want, and end your telling with something like, 'Will you do that?'

If you're truly done, there's no need to ask your WS for what you want. You do nit owe him another chance. But I urge you to try out asking in other relationships. As I said, it's very powerful.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:19 PM, Wednesday, June 5th]

him feeling that he had ANY right to demand being able to continue in his comfort zone when he had completely destroyed my ability to feel comfortable and safe EVER was just an absolute dealbreaker.

Wish I could love this a thousand times. My xWS was not capable of remorse or empathy. Didn't want to hear about his A or how it affected me. His go to line was that I liked to live in the past So happy I left just wish I had done it sooner. Best decision I have ever made in my life was to D.

He left you and the kids to be with his mistress, and came crawling back.

He lied to you for two years post affair

He keeps saying things like you need to commit to R as though you were the problem.

He takes advantage of the good days
, blames you for the bad days, and weaponizes the good times against you as if it was your fault.

To me, he sounds immature, selfish and a coward. Every time you post it’s mostly about his constant lying. You make a lot of excuses for this, but you have yet to do anything about it. Here’s a question, does he treat other people in his life this way? Lie to them, deceive them etc? If not, why you? Could it be something as simple as he can treat you anyway he wants and you will still be there tomorrow? I have yet to read anything from you about any sort of consequences he faced for two years of lying.

As I said long ago, that is who is he, he may change from it, but evidence is pointing towards him not. Staying with him as things are is accepting he will keep lying to you among many other things.