SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Backstory: My Dday was 5 years ago, June 5th - 8th. On June 5th the OW sent me a Facebook friend request. My husband confessed on June 6th and on June 7th and 8th I received several emails from the OW detailing their affair. I was in complete and total shock and learned he lied in his confession. She told me at the time that the things she was telling me were just the tip of the iceberg and if I ever wanted/needed more information I could contact her.
My FWH and I are reconciling and things, for the most part, are going ok. There was a setback a couple months ago and he started IC again to work through those issues.
I don't know if it's the trigger of the dday anniversary or what, but I have an anxious pit in my stomach that I can not get rid of. I feel like I have no closure. He was telling her up to the moment I made him go NC that he was losing the best thing that ever happened to him and that he did not love me. He has always maintained that he was telling her those things to try and keep her from blowing up his world. I also feel like I let her off way to easy. She was saying things to me like "I can't believe he did this to me", "What did I do to deserve this?", and "I'm all alone because I was waiting for him to get a divorce". In return I told her I would pray for peace for her - WHAT WAS I THINKING? I want her to know that being the other woman is not ok and she got exactly what she deserved going after someone who was married.
Anyhow, I'm rambling. My dilemma is that I am doing everything in my power to keep from contacting her again. Asking her for more details and telling her what I really think of her. I know none of this would be helpful. It's been 5 years and I really hate that she takes up space in my head still. I guess I just need some reassurance that contacting her would be a very bad idea. Or advice from anyone else who has felt this need.

Write her a letter, on paper as it helps make it real. Make it as long or short as you want. Write a book if you have to. Then store it away somewhere safe. Don’t give it to her. At some point in the future you’ll be able to throw it away in the trash just like her.

If OW really holds on to the belief that she is the great love of your husband's life and that he only stayed married to you out of necessity, then contacting her after 5 years of no contact to pry her for answers and/or unload vitriol on her will only cement that belief in her mind.

It's far more likely that, after 5 years of no contact with your husband, she feels used and discarded. Don't disabuse her of that thought by contacting her. By far the cruelest thing you can do to an OW-- which just happens to be the best thing you can do for yourself-- is completely ignore her, as if she were a nasty fart that blew off in the wind.

I’m going to respond to this as a question to you and to the community here:

First to you: do you believe the story your husband has told you? Do you have hard evidence backing a detailed timeline? I had the same experience of lies with a confession and it really messed up my ability to trust my wife.

Second to the community: if the OW is offering concrete evidence of the affair activities, should we as the betrayed accept them? Man, if POSOM in my case had offered to me hard evidence, not just his own narrative, but the full message history and receipts and dates, I don’t think I could have said no to that.

I personally believe giving our traumatized brains enough credible information to create a plausible narrative of the affair is crucial to calming our minds. If your mind is still not calmed after this much time, do you feel like you are still being lied to? What is underneath your drive to even want to reach out to this awful person?

This is hard...

I have to agree with others here. Because it has been 5 years , you reaching out to her if you're trying to reconcile wouldn't be helpful, I think it COULD open up a door that has been long closed on her for years. I wouldn't want to open that door.
I can't say that I have been in your shoes, I messaged his AP shortly after DDAY telling her all the things they did together and calling her every name in the book telling her that she was used and then thrown away and that we would NEVER think about her again... it was a lie for sure (her DA is always in my head) but in her mind she is nothing, forgotten, and gone. - She blocked me and him and never tried to reach him again because i threatened her job. I knew I wouldn't get any information from her but if she offered it at that time I think I would have listened BUT at that time my H wasn't giving me squat when I asked.

My H went NC with her immediately and we deleted all SM after that.

If she tried to contact me now being 7 months later I wouldn't listen to a damn thing BUT that is just me, I want her to feel like the nothing that she is and I am glad that all those messages I drafted up to her I never sent.
I asked my IC about this too and our MC , my H immediately just blocked her number and quit his job and I wanted him to write a letter 3 months after Dday telling her what a POS they both were but I was told that silence is the best way to go and opening that door only lets more crap in.
I also see APS lie , they see things how they want to see things and I know everything he told her no matter how bad it hurts was garbage, so I dont need to hear it.

Do you have a detailed timeline? Do you feel like you have all of the details you need? Have you told your H about your feelings?
Does he still answer your questions as needed?

I am sorry after 5 years you still feel like this :(

InkHulk

Second to the community: if the OW is offering concrete evidence of the affair activities, should we as the betrayed accept them? Man, if POSOM in my case had offered to me hard evidence, not just his own narrative, but the full message history and receipts and dates, I don’t think I could have said no to that.

Going back to the time after Dday, I would absolutely want all the information the OWs had. What BS in the wake of Dday could resist such an offer?

But speaking as someone almost a decade removed from infidelity...

It's very important to consider that the motivations of APs when they offer to disclose information. An unwitting AP who discovers their paramour is married and contacts the BS because it's the right thing to do is a different beast than frustrated mistress who wants to blow up the marriage.

The former is likely to provide complete and accurate information because they are motivated by ethical and moral obligation. The latter is going to pick and choose what dirty secrets they spill so as to maximize the BS's pain and paint themselves in the best possible light.

For example, someone like OP's husband's OW would happily share messages in which he told her he loved her, she was the greatest thing that ever happened to him, he wishes he wasn't married so they could run off together, etc. But do you think the OW would share any messages where they argued bitterly? Do you think the OW would share messages in which the WH expressed his doubts, tried to the end the affair, or defended his wife against mean comments by the OW? Probably not.

In the end, the BS already has someone who has all the puzzle pieces they need-- their WS. If the WS can't or won't give them a complete picture of the affair, then the BS has a choice of whether or not they can live with what they know (or don't).

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 5:53 PM, Thursday, June 6th]

I agree with the advice of not contacting the AP at this point. You will open a door that you want bolted shut. And, like others have said, you let her know that she still means something in your marriage.

I would have taken what she offered at the time. Like Ink said, any information that would nail down the truth was vital to stopping the trauma spiral I was in. But five years later, I would not go back to that can of worms.

(Even if you had said yes then, who knows what she actually had or would have told you. APs lie just as much as waywards and her goal at that point in time was to punish your husband and hurt her competition (you). So don't fret too much about what you might have missed here as there is a good chance some of it would have been manipulations to hurt you and destroy your marriage further).

As for the pit in your stomach - is it your gut? You obviously feel like there is more to know, hence the retroactive desire to get more info from AP. We always say trust your gut. I don't think it's ever too late to sit down with a spouse and ask more questions. Perhaps this time you'd like to document what you know and timeline of sorts and then ask questions to fill in the blank.

I'd let your husband know that this is not an attack but something you need for calming and peace of mind. It is in fact your effort to put this in the rearview mirror.

If you think it might just be Dday jitters, hold off for a month or so. See if you feel better without revisiting the timeline.

I do believe my H's timeline of events and he has been honest with reasons he sought another woman. I had my first dday in Sept of 2017 and then again in March of 2018 and then the blow up in June of 2019. I struggle with how, after that first dday, he seemed to be back to his old self. So at that time he claims to have known he didn't want to divorce me, but he was still in love with her and telling her horrible things about me and saying they would be together. And that for over another year and 1/2 he strung us both along. I tell him to this day that I don't think he ever would have ended it with her. She ended it when she called our local courthouse to get the case number for our divorce proceedings and found out there wasn't one.

Sometimes I fear I just want to keep being a victim. I have worked on this in IC, but I don't know if I will ever have the confidence back that I had before this happened.

I don't know how I didn't have her send me the proof that she had. I think in that moment I was terrified and just wanted to protect my family at any cost. I believe I now regret not getting it.

Thanks for all the wonderful advice and for reminding me that the best thing to do is not contact her. Really, what difference would it make. He has admitted to all of it, just says he can't remember details. I know those details will hurt me, so there really is no reason to want them.

BTB, sage advice as always.

I know those details will hurt me, so there really is no reason to want them.

They would certainly hurt, but there could be legitimate reasons to want them even so, like helping your brain calm down. But after five years and all the doubt others have justifiably cast on the motives of the AP and the quality of the info you would get, it seems very risky that the benefits would outweigh the harms.

It sounds like you have some other avenues you might pursue to continue your healing journey. There are a lot of people who say they needed more than five years to heal, so I hope you don’t put yourself down for taking too long or something. I wish you the best.

Going back to the time after Dday, I would absolutely want all the information the OWs had. What BS in the wake of Dday could resist such an offer?

But speaking as someone almost a decade removed from infidelity...

It's very important to consider that the motivations of APs when they offer to disclose information. An unwitting AP who discovers their paramour is married and contacts the BS because it's the right thing to do is a different beast than frustrated mistress who wants to blow up the marriage.

The former is likely to provide complete and accurate information because they are motivated by ethical and moral obligation. The latter is going to pick and choose what dirty secrets they spill so as to maximize the BS's pain and paint themselves in the best possible light.

Agree with this entirely. OP - I'm sorry you're hurting right now. I think if i were in your shoes, I would think long and hard about contacting the AP and bringing the AP back into your orbit at this point. I think the time for speaking to her was 5 years ago. Back then she wanted to punish him and blow up your marriage but at least the details were fresh. By now, hopefully she's moved on and her memory has faded. I'm sure she has likely re-written the story of their relationship in her brain to fit the narrative that paints her in the best light. She viewed herself as the victim of him. I'm not sure that is going to have changed. I don't think there is anything she can say to you that will give you the closure you need. Probably best to let sleeping bitches lie...(or something to that effect ).

So at that time he claims to have known he didn't want to divorce me, but he was still in love with her and telling her horrible things about me and saying they would be together.

Yes, your husband told her horrible things about you. But what actually happened when she contacted you? She learned you were a woman who had enough empathy and compassion in her heart to listen to her husband's mistress opine over her misguided feelings of betrayal... and then respond with "I pray for peace for you."

Just think of how much of a mind-shattering reality check you dealt the OW. The whole time she was in the affair, she imagined you as an evil harpy standing in the way of the damsel and her prince. Instead, you forced her to confront the fact that she was nothing more than a dirty secret, and party to the deception and heart break of a kind and gracious woman.

I tell him to this day that I don't think he ever would have ended it with her. She ended it when she called our local courthouse to get the case number for our divorce proceedings and found out there wasn't one.

I think the fact that OW dumped your husband (and not the other way around) is the source of your anxiety and lack of closure. I will leave it to the BSs on this site who have successfully reconciled after similar circumstances to give you advice on how to work through that particular emotional hurdle.

However, I will say that if your husband really loved OW and desperately wanted the future he promised her, he would've left... and she likely would've taken him back. If he's truly remorseful and doing the work to rebuild your trust, then he's chosen a far more difficult path but ultimately more rewarding path. That counts for something.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 10:30 PM, Thursday, June 6th]

An ap who wants to give you closure might do something like write an apology letter. ( I wouldn’t advise it if it was a ws here asking 5 years out because you have no idea what you might cause in that bs.)

I am a no new contact/no new hurts believer. I blocked the OBS in my husbands affair. We talked a few times to compare notes but after that it became too messy.

This woman sounds more like she wants revenge on your husband and I think you would have run the risk of getting a load of bullshit. Then, what do you believe? She has every reason to make him look terrible and then you are left with a pile of details that if your husband can’t verify you will be haunted by those too.

Closure only happens in fiction. It almost never happens in the real world, especially with affairs.

Never trust an AP who wants to be AP. Never. Especially one where they believed that WH cheating on his spouse is a prize and will leave his family for them. What is her motivation? Breaking your family apart. She doesn’t care what you think about her at all, to her you are nothing but a NPC. Your WH probably is to her as well, doubt their relationship would have actually worked if they had gone "legitimate". Highly doubt she felt guilt or shame about what she was doing,
sure doesn’t sound like it. Then her motivation back then for providing details is revenge. Revenge against both of you for not conforming to her sick version of reality. You telling her now how you feel about her probably won’t change anything, since she doesn’t care at all how you feel. It might hurt her for you to not think she’s special, but I’d bet my retirement that she doesn’t give a damn that she hurt you.

Your closure is peace in knowing that her punishment is she gets to live as herself. She’s probably ruining other lives anyway, and blaming everyone else for her misery. That’s the closest to justice that will ever come. Nothing is ever fair in affairs. Live your best life where she doesn’t even exist. I don’t even allow my WWs AP to have a name, he’s nothing but smoke. I don’t think contacting her is worth it because likely all it will do is hurt you more because that’s all she wants.

Also, at a point you have to accept that you will never have all the details or information you want. 5 years is a long time. I recommend you come to a place where you feel you have enough and WH hasn’t continued to lie. That last part is the hardest, and takes the most time. How you get there is completely up to you, but I feel strongly at a point you have to be honest with yourself if you will ever get there, and if not what are your options or next steps.

Did you get a full timeline of events from your WS at the time? Did that align with whatever information you got from her at the time?

Wanting closure is just the desire to create a satisfactory ending. You would like to extract the full verifiable truth from her and then express the pain you are feeling in such a perfect way that it will burn deep into her soul and leave her suffering just as much are you are.

But the AP wants something completely different for closure. Maybe revenge on your WS, maybe to make you angry and hurt enough to finally dump him for good. Maybe just to satisfy some petty jealousy of you.

So you can never get that closure because the two will never align. You can't hurt her because she doesn't care about your pain. All you will get from her is more pain.

Never believe an AP who is seeking out the active destruction of your marriage so they can step in. We know, after all, that cheaters lie. She will pick and choose what she shows you, and it will be what causes the most damage. I made the mistake of getting the "evidence" from the AP. She had actually fabricated a lot of it. Her own husband ratted her out and provided me with the accurate picture, despite the fact it made is WS look REAL bad.

Do not give her headspace. I know for a fact that my WS AP is consumed with the fact that I blocked her and wouldn't respond to her bullshit. It pisses her off to no end.

Was the setback a couple of months ago infidelity related, or more character related?

I can't even express to you all how much everyone's words have helped me. It's like a light bulb turned on and I feel a weight lifted. So much was spot on how I was feeling and I really think I've come to terms with the fact that I will not get the closure I desire, it's not possible. Contacting her for it will not bring me any closer to closure, it will just cause more pain. Thanks again!

I recommend you come to a place where you feel you have enough and WH hasn’t continued to lie.

I think this is wise and well said. It is in our own best interest as the betrayed to move forward with a calm and healed mind, and continuously ruminating over what you might not know will only destroy your future happiness. Build your narrative from what you have, accept it as deeply as you can, and move on.

The only thing I would add to this is this: once you have done this, there is zero tolerance for further lies and trickle truth. This self convincing is a one time deal. It’s too hard and it takes too long. Find you peace and if your spouse destroys it again know that you will walk away.

You’re sounding quite sage these days InkHulk.

I think that if you are reconciling, having as much truth as can be mustered has a sacramental (for want of a better word) quality. It gives you some small thing to work with. The truth needs to come from your spouse.

Early on, information from others can be useful to get your spouse to a place where they give up on lying. The window for them to do that is not long.

Where I try to stop searching out the truth is where I am more liking to superimpose something, than to actually get closer to the truth. At that point it’s best to just stop thinking for a bit and to divert your attention to something neutral.